No more aspirating???

**Stosh_112** · 03-14-2015, 02:29 PM

On a recent doctor visit I requested my 10yr tetnus shot. Jokingly, I told the nurse "Dont forget to Aspirate ". She looked at me and said they don't do that anymore in the medical field... I dont quite understand why they wouldn't aspirate on an IM shot??? She sad something like its not neccessary anymore... Im not in the medical field but from what iv'e learned is that it is neccessary due to the chance if hitting a vein. Does anyone have any input on this? On a side note she drew with a 25 and didnt change the tip before pinning me!!! LOL, for how much medical insurance is, and the co-pays, u think they would at least give ya a fresh pin. But like i said if anyone in the medical field can enlighten me on not aspirating feel free to comment. Sorry for the spelling.

**lovbyts** · 03-14-2015, 07:59 PM

Easy explanation. $$$$
It takes longer to aspirate $$
It cost more to change pins. $$
$$ + $$ = $$$$
Simple math.

**Stosh_112** · 03-14-2015, 10:03 PM

Thats the thing. $$$$=MY insurance premium. I wonder what the avg cost is for TRT??? I do know that a 1000mg Acetometaphin AKA Tylanol is $20 at the hospital. But u get the satisfaction of knowing its pharm grade and not the walmart brand

**lovbyts** · 03-14-2015, 10:17 PM

Sort of like a metric adjustable wrench for NASA cost $12,000.00?

**austinite** · 03-15-2015, 12:06 AM

Many RN's are trained not to aspirate . It's been like this for a while. They're not injecting steroids or oils that could be harmful if accidentally went IV. Most injections are fine IM or IV.

We, steroid users aspirate to prevent oil from reaching your lungs, hence the 'cough of death'.

**Stosh_112** · 03-15-2015, 12:08 AM

Very good example! Guess that's why we do what we gotta do! EX: Harbor Freight, Vitacost, and China Raws. lol

**bsh** · 03-15-2015, 12:31 AM

I never aspirate seeing I do gluts! Should I???

**Bio-Active** · 03-15-2015, 05:06 AM

Originally Posted by bsh

I never aspirate seeing I do gluts! Should I???

Yes you should

**fitnesstrainer** · 03-15-2015, 05:46 PM

When you guys say aspirate your referring to making sure there's no air in the syringe or needle correct? I've never heard that term Before

**Bio-Active** · 03-15-2015, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by fitnesstrainer

When you guys say aspirate your referring to making sure there's no air in the syringe or needle correct? I've never heard that term Before

no.... You pull the plunger back after the pin has broke the fascia before you inject. This ensures no blood is drawn back into the pin. If you draw blood then the pin would be sitting in a vein

**MR10X** · 03-30-2015, 05:01 AM

Aspirating is not necessary and air lock (putting air bubble in syringe) is an approved procedure...
The air-lock technique for medication injection
I dont aspirate and i add an air bubble (about .3 mil) on every shot.....SC and IM

"Introduction
An injection is defined by the World Health Organization (WHO) as parenteral administration of medication through a skin puncture via a syringe, while aspiration is defined as the pulling back of the plunger of a syringe (for 5–10 seconds) prior to injecting medicine1–4. Aspiration is most commonly performed during an intramuscular [IM] or subcutaneous [SC] injection, and is meant to ensure that the needle tip is located at the desired site, and has not accidentally punctured a blood vessel.

Despite the growing wealth of medical knowledge in recent decades, the simple procedure of aspiration is still generating much controversy concerning its perceived benefits and indications5. Advocates of aspiration contend that it is a technically easy maneuver that is rapidly performed and well tolerated by patients with no increase in costs incurred. However, due to a paucity of available data, there is no evidence that this procedure is essential or truly beneficial. This issue has been widely debated with specific regard to vaccination; there are no studies that have assessed the need for aspiration prior to IM injection of vaccines in relation to vaccine safety. The widespread use of auto-disable (AD) syringes – most of which are not designed to aspirate6 – has not been linked to adverse effects due to the elimination of the aspiration procedure prior to injection of vaccines7. This finding has intensified the debate and raised doubts over the necessity of aspiration in non-vaccine medication administration as well.

Conventional syringes are also used to aspirate materials other than blood – synovial fluid, amniotic fluid, cells (via fine needle cytology), pericardial fluid, peritoneal fluid and cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) are examples8–19. This wide spectrum of applications for conventional syringes is all the more interesting in view of the fact that although used for both aspiration and injection, the syringe is actually designed only for injection20. A number of studies have concluded that a conventional syringe is a poorly controlled and non-ergonomic device during aspiration21,22. Possible lack of precision may result in local trauma and pain, prolonged procedure time, failed or incomplete procedures, accidental puncture of blood vessels or nerve bundles, poor sample retrieval and delayed diagnosis23–33. The ingrained use of the conventional syringe for injection and aspiration is to a large extent attributable to its low cost, widespread availability and lack of an effective alternative21."

**lovbyts** · 03-30-2015, 07:27 AM

Once you get test/tren cough then tell me aspirating isnt important.

**MR10X** · 03-30-2015, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Once you get test/tren cough then tell me aspirating isnt important.

Done a lot of tren and never got the cough,mine was real i converted the pellets.I have gotten the metal taste in my mouth but never the cough.....Been doing AAS for 30+ years and never had an issue not aspirating or using the bubble air lock...........So i will continue to use my methods since they work for me and ignor all the Bro science....Aspirating is highly overrated and not even recomened any more......So aspirating is not important and not even recomened

**MR10X** · 03-30-2015, 07:49 AM

"A number of studies have concluded that a conventional syringe is a poorly controlled and non-ergonomic device during aspiration21,22. Possible lack of precision may result in local trauma and pain, prolonged procedure time, failed or incomplete procedures, accidental puncture of blood vessels or nerve bundles, poor sample retrieval and delayed diagnosis23–33. The ingrained use of the conventional syringe for injection and aspiration is to a large extent attributable to its low cost, widespread availability and lack of an effective alternative21."
Bro science is also included in that.......and possibly the reason reason people complain about PIP.....

**Bonaparte** · 03-30-2015, 07:55 AM

MR10X, once again those conclusions were drawn on conventional IM injections like vaccines and other water-soluble drugs. Ones that don't cause side effects if accidentally injected IV.

**NACH3** · 03-30-2015, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Once you get test/tren cough then tell me aspirating isnt important.

I think it was last week or two wks ago... I didn't have my contacts in and aspirated(saw nada) musta moved it a touch, as I inj(test/NPP) as soon as I was done got that metallic taste and coughed roughly for about 10-15 min!

I always make sure my contacts are in now(& that was the first for me)... Just not worth it IMO... Plus if your in a vessel one barely needs to even draw back b4 the hub has blood in it!

**MR10X** · 03-30-2015, 09:19 AM

Aspiration in injections: should we continue or abandon the practice? - F1000Research

**clarky.** · 03-30-2015, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by MR10X

Done a lot of tren and never got the cough,mine was real i converted the pellets.I have gotten the metal taste in my mouth but never the cough.....Been doing AAS for 30+ years and never had an issue not aspirating or using the bubble air lock...........So i will continue to use my methods since they work for me and ignor all the Bro science....Aspirating is highly overrated and not even recomened any more......So aspirating is not important and not even recomened

MR10x it has nothing to do if it's real or not it have to do with injecting into a vain. If you inject in to a vain with ANY oil you WILL know all about it.

**Stosh_112** · 03-30-2015, 11:02 AM

I can see both points as to why and why not to aspirate . Now that ive done some reading. Yes the daily IM water based vaccines are not a major health risk if accidentally hit a blood pathway... And yes i can also agree that the other Oil based IM Vaccines we use can cause issues if they get in the blood stream directly, AKA the cough... But Here's the kicker.... How many people have "DIED" from injecting oil based AAS in the blood stream? I know u feel like ur dying from the cough... But as for the chance of actually dying...?? Intentional or not.... Im talkin 1-2ml. Also by looking at the mapping of both the Blood Circulatory system, and the Nervous system. There's more of a chance hitting a main nerve than hitting an artery/vein. Especially in the quads. But then again everyone has their own practice and beliefs. As to which is the safest there will always be controversy. The reason i started this thread was to make people aware that the medical field isn't always right and does make mistakes... Thank you everyone for the inputs.

**Honkey_Kong** · 03-30-2015, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by MR10X

Aspiration in injections: should we continue or abandon the practice? - F1000Research

The day you get some oil in your lungs, you're going to take back everything you posted on here.

**derekkpapa1** · 03-30-2015, 05:58 PM

it takes a few seconds- it's for you benefit so why wouldnt you??

**< <Samson> >** · 03-30-2015, 06:17 PM

My woman is the same, she's like: I never do it it work < LoL

Why, they don't care

**MR10X** · 03-30-2015, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by clarky.

MR10x it has nothing to do if it's real or not it have to do with injecting into a vain. If you inject in to a vain with ANY oil you WILL know all about it.

I said it was real because if i hadn't someone would have said well your was not real.....Its been 35 years of doing it and i havnt injected anything into a vein yet so i guess i should be looking for it to happen any day now..........

**MR10X** · 03-30-2015, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Honkey_Kong

The day you get some oil in your lungs, you're going to take back everything you posted on here.

Thats broscience there,been doin it 35 years and no problems yet.......not only to me but i gave injections to a lot of other people and they didnt have any problems.....I have given myself thousands of injections.....oh and i use an air bubble in the syringe to air lock my injection too iguess thats a no no too........

**MR10X** · 03-30-2015, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by derekkpapa1

it takes a few seconds- it's for you benefit so why wouldnt you??

Because theres no benifit to it,thats why...actually theres reasons not to do it....read post #14

Heres the post ,ill repost it for you

"A number of studies have concluded that a conventional syringe is a poorly controlled and non-ergonomic device during aspiration21,22. Possible lack of precision may result in local trauma and pain, prolonged procedure time, failed or incomplete procedures, accidental puncture of blood vessels or nerve bundles, poor sample retrieval and delayed diagnosis23–33. The ingrained use of the conventional syringe for injection and aspiration is to a large extent attributable to its low cost, widespread availability and lack of an effective alternative21."
B

**MR10X** · 03-30-2015, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by Honkey_Kong

The day you get some oil in your lungs, you're going to take back everything you posted on here.

Do you have anything to back that statement up,ive posted studys to back up what im saying....

**lovbyts** · 03-30-2015, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by MR10X

Do you have anything to back that statement up,ive posted studys to back up what im saying....

A study? What good is a study if/when you get the test/tren cough? Should I/we just pretend we didnt get the cough because a study says it's not needed. Ive gotten it 2x only for a few minutes and each time I didnt aspirate . That does not mean I get it every time I didnt aspirate but the point is even though I did and many others have gotten the test/tren cough should we just dismiss it, pretend it didnt happen?

I think the fact that it happened to me and many others outweighs any study that is published.

**almostgone** · 03-30-2015, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by MR10X

Do you have anything to back that statement up,ive posted studys to back up what im saying....

Regarding POME check out 7.1.1 of the link below. I know it isn't a perfect reference, but aspiration is used with oil carriers and especially with larger volumes. This is from the FDA info on Aveed.
I believe the manufacturer's info on Aveed specifies the patient should be monitored for approx. 30 minutes post injection specifically because of POME.

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Advisor.../UCM348092.pdf

**almostgone** · 03-30-2015, 10:32 PM

Also, check out the safety info in the following link:

Safety Information | AVEED® (Testosterone Undecanoate) injection CIII

**Honkey_Kong** · 03-30-2015, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

A study? What good is a study if/when you get the test/tren cough? Should I/we just pretend we didnt get the cough because a study says it's not needed. Ive gotten it 2x only for a few minutes and each time I didnt aspirate . That does not mean I get it every time I didnt aspirate but the point is even though I did and many others have gotten the test/tren cough should we just dismiss it, pretend it didnt happen?

I think the fact that it happened to me and many others outweighs any study that is published.

Eh, some people you just have to let learn the hard way, I guess. It doesn't matter what studies published are in support or against aspirating. Most of us here have experienced the cough and it's not fun.

**MR10X** · 03-31-2015, 04:58 AM

Originally Posted by Honkey_Kong

Eh, some people you just have to let learn the hard way, I guess. It doesn't matter what studies published are in support or against aspirating. Most of us here have experienced the cough and it's not fun.

So your saying you still get the cough even if you aspirate ????? maby you should look at your aspirating technique,sounds like your injecting into a vein.......I never aspirate and i have never had the cough from any compound i have injected....

**MR10X** · 03-31-2015, 05:08 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

A study? What good is a study if/when you get the test/tren cough? Should I/we just pretend we didnt get the cough because a study says it's not needed. Ive gotten it 2x only for a few minutes and each time I didnt aspirate . That does not mean I get it every time I didnt aspirate but the point is even though I did and many others have gotten the test/tren cough should we just dismiss it, pretend it didnt happen?

I think the fact that it happened to me and many others outweighs any study that is published.

Really,broscience outweighs controlled studys........

**almostgone** · 03-31-2015, 05:11 AM

I think the references I posted above provide a good argument for aspiration.

**MR10X** · 03-31-2015, 05:24 AM

Originally Posted by almostgone

I think the references I posted above provide a good argument for aspiration.

I didnt see where they described the injection technique,sounds like it can happen whether you aspirate or not....which is my whole point...never happened to me and i usually inject 3ml of oil based stuff at a time.....

**almostgone** · 03-31-2015, 05:35 AM

I believe if you're dealing with oils it would fall under" recommended procedure for intramuscular administration". But if it works for you, rock on with it.

**MR10X** · 03-31-2015, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by almostgone

I believe if you're dealing with oils it would fall under" recommended procedure for intramuscular administration". But if it works for you, rock on with it.

But the issue i have is guys get the cough even if they aspirate .....but the recomened procedure is both to aspirate and its its not necessary for IM .......your damned if you do and your damned if you dont..

**Bio-Active** · 03-31-2015, 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by MR10X

But the issue i have is guys get the cough even if they aspirate .....but the recomened procedure is both to aspirate and its its not necessary for IM .......your damned if you do and your damned if you dont..

your going to get the cough with tren or any other aas anytime you inject close to a vein or blood vessel

**Hazard** · 03-31-2015, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by Bio-Active

your going to get the cough with tren or any other aas anytime you inject close to a vein or blood vessel

^^^^ This

I had the cough from injecting EQ into my glute.....

**MR10X** · 03-31-2015, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by Bio-Active

your going to get the cough with tren or any other aas anytime you inject close to a vein or blood vessel

I have done a lot of tren and never got the cough,i have never got the cough with anything i have injected. I have done ASS since 1982,done Ed injections with Tren A also...

**Bio-Active** · 03-31-2015, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by MR10X

I have done a lot of tren and never got the cough,i have never got the cough with anything i have injected. I have done ASS since 1982,done Ed injections with Tren A also...

that's great for you. That's means you haven't injected close to a vein or blood vessel. You are one of the few lucky ones