Supreme Court on Obamacare

[DrewZ]

This just in...
News from The Associated Press

[djgreen]

I just about threw the remote through the tv when I saw it looks like it isn't going anywhere

[lovbyts]

I just about threw the remote through the tv when I saw it looks like it isn't going anywhere

Did you really expect it to? For some reason all they do talk and posturing like as if will make a difference. I would have been amazed if they actually did something.

[Metalject]

Not surprising. Around 1930 the Supreme Court began allowing laws to exist even with vague language - if the court is to hold to that ruling, especially the one in 1943 NBC vs US, then the court can always determine and decide what the legislation was intended to mean. And if you're going to rule based on intent, then you are going to rule based on your own political leanings. Anyway, with this ruling and more than likely with the ruling on gay marriage coming up in the next few days, basically what the court will be saying is that states no longer matter, we are just one large state, which is what progressive minded people want as individual states messes up everything they desire.

[ppwc1985]

Just kinda curious, why do you all hate Obama care? It's been great for myself and my family.

[Hazard]

Just kinda curious, why do you all hate Obama care? It's been great for myself and my family.

Because im a single father with full custody of my daughter and I can't afford it. They gave me a $7 credit..... 7 fvcking dollars! I can't afford $900/month for healthcare for both of us, $800/month for daycare, rent, etc.....

It's done absolutely NOTHING for me. Also.... My family is in healthcare..... Costs are rising and reimbursements are going down.

[ppwc1985]

Well that's not good sorry about that. Mine only went up about 8 bucks week. But the coverage is a lot better now. Before Obama care I paid in 4300 a year and they would only cover up to 5000 a year. Now it's unlimited. I just had some health problems that cost 93000, and I only had to pay 3000. So I guess it's good for some and not so for others just like it's always been.

[Oki-Des]

I own a medical company and Obama created new taxes and FDA fee's that nearly put me out of business. I not only get taxed on profits, and taxed on capital gains I even now get additionally taxed based on wholesale sales on top of everything else. I could not even afford health insurance for myself, but was penalized hundreds of dollars which was taken from my tax return to cover the penalty for not being able to afford it.

[djgreen]

I applied for it and thought maybe I would save $ nope me being young with no job and full time student no health issues haven't been to the doc in years cost 375$ a month with a 1000$ deductible that's a scam my friend

[DrewZ]

Just kinda curious, why do you all hate Obama care? It's been great for myself and my family.

There is sooooo much wrong with it from the way it was written to the way it passed not to mention I've seen insurance premiums almost double since it happened.

It's a disgrace.

[lovbyts]

Well that's not good sorry about that. Mine only went up about 8 bucks week. But the coverage is a lot better now. Before Obama care I paid in 4300 a year and they would only cover up to 5000 a year. Now it's unlimited. I just had some health problems that cost 93000, and I only had to pay 3000. So I guess it's good for some and not so for others just like it's always been.

It's a huge scam. It helped a few and cost most double or more.

[Metalject]

Just kinda curious, why do you all hate Obama care? It's been great for myself and my family.

And this is why our system of government is so messed up - people assume a law or act is good if it personally helps them.

A big business, tax the shit out of them and give out the money to those who have less - people stand and cheer, yet what just happened also cost a lot of people their jobs.

My healthcare is now cheaper or even free - people stand and cheer, yet someone is paying for that healthcare, and it's always the middle-class, you've taken one man's problem and given it to another.

...we can go on and on with examples like these. And that's the problem, people never think about what's benefiting is costing someone else, and if they happen to think about it they assume it's fair because who ever it was taken from obviously had more than them. And this is why America is no longer even deserving of its name.

[ppwc1985]

I am middle class, I make 100k a year with my retirement. Nothing in USA is good for every single person. What's wrong with America is this everyone has to get a trophy mentality that this younger generation brought on. Same reason ppl pull guns when they get their asses kicked, because they have no balls anymore. And then there is the we need more government bullshit, and sending all our jobs to China. But the biggest problem is everyone is greedy and wants something for nothing.

[lovbyts]

I am middle class, I make 100k a year with my retirement. Nothing in USA is good for every single person. What's wrong with America is this everyone has to get a trophy mentality that this younger generation brought on. Same reason ppl pull guns when they get their asses kicked, because they have no balls anymore. And then there is the we need more government bullshit, and sending all our jobs to China. But the biggest problem is everyone is greedy and wants something for nothing.

Somehow you seemed to have slipped through the cracks because that's not the typical case. Mine has gone up a lot the last couple of years and the only way I got it to not double was by making some critical changes but if anything happens to me or the family and we need some extensive test I am screwed where before everything was covered with small deductibles and I'm right there with you on income.

Everyone I know that makes from $50K - $200K say it's cost them a lot more than before. Only people I have heard saying it's better are the $40K or less.

What happened to the day where getting better insurance was another perk/incentive to work harder, smarter and get a better job?

As mentioned, there are just far to many today who feel there are entitled to xyz and it's feeding right into the hands of the leftist socialist government that is in place.

This pretty much sums it up how I fee.

[CharlesThe4th]

It's just another way to kill the middle class.

[Hazard]

My grandparents now pay more and can hardly afford it..... Before hand they had everything covered at a lower cost. They worked for 50-60 years without EVER collecting from the system and this is what they get?

My friend works for Aetna..... His healthcare cost went up! HE WORKS FOR THE INSURANCE COMPANY! His deductible also went up by a few thousand dollars. He lost his mind.....

All that was done was give one man another mans problem. It was a shuffle in issues. Those with pre existing conditions will cheer because they're rates will lower and those who never really needed healthcare but always had it "just incase" will now hafta pay even more or just not afford to get it.

If you use the healthcare more YOU SHOULD pay more! It's not your fault you have a pre existing condition but why the fvck should it be MY burden!? Healthcare IS NOT a born right. It's a SERVICE...... End of story.

[kelkel]

Isn't it going up 30% next year as well?

[APIs]

No surprise really. Obamacare is still a giant POS though & it's killing small businesses in this country. My costs went from $500/month to $900/month for basically the same coverage, only with higher deductibles & co-pays...

[Hazard]

No surprise really. Obamacare is still a giant POS that is killing small businesses in this country. My costs went from $500/month to $900/month for basically the same coverage, only with higher deductibles & co-pays...

That's acceptable tho..... Because your helping someone with a pre existing condition. Don't you feel all warm and fuzzy inside? Or is that feeling just your blood pressure skyrocketing lol

[GirlyGymRat]

Somehow you seemed to have slipped through the cracks because that's not the typical case. Mine has gone up a lot the last couple of years and the only way I got it to not double was by making some critical changes but if anything happens to me or the family and we need some extensive test I am screwed where before everything was covered with small deductibles and I'm right there with you on income. Everyone I know that makes from $50K - $200K say it's cost them a lot more than before. Only people I have heard saying it's better are the $40K or less. What happened to the day where getting better insurance was another perk/incentive to work harder, smarter and get a better job? As mentioned, there are just far to many today who feel there are entitled to xyz and it's feeding right into the hands of the leftist socialist government that is in place. This pretty much sums it up how I fee. <img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=157814"/>

Now that's funny. Sadly. True.

[jimmyinkedup]

Mine costs me just under $300/month more with higher deductibles and copays. Yeah Im not too ****ing happy. What amazes me is no one seems happy, yet here we are, this thing is a law.
Of the people , by the people and for the people my ass.

[djgreen]

the people need to do something about this Is our country and Washington works for us not the other way around

[Armykid93]

I am middle class, I make 100k a year with my retirement. Nothing in USA is good for every single person. What's wrong with America is this everyone has to get a trophy mentality that this younger generation brought on. Same reason ppl pull guns when they get their asses kicked, because they have no balls anymore. And then there is the we need more government bullshit, and sending all our jobs to China. But the biggest problem is everyone is greedy and wants something for nothing.

Obamacare is bigger government.........

[Hazard]

Mine costs me just under $300/month more with higher deductibles and copays. Yeah Im not too ****ing happy. What amazes me is no one seems happy, yet here we are, this thing is a law.
Of the people , by the people and for the people my ass.

Funny this is when this Supreme Court ruling came in.... The judge said "the people voted these representatives into office"

[thisAngelBites]

if the court is to hold to that ruling, especially the one in 1943 NBC vs US, then the court can always determine and decide what the legislation was intended to mean. And if you're going to rule based on intent, then you are going to rule based on your own political leanings. Anyway, with this ruling and more than likely with the ruling on gay marriage coming up in the next few days, basically what the court will be saying is that states no longer matter, we are just one large state, which is what progressive minded people want as individual states messes up everything they desire.

Of course the court is going to decide how to interpret legislation - that's one of their functions. People make laws, and then of course grey areas arise in the real world. No law can plan for every situation and every eventuality. This is just how it works. There are very few laws avoid this because they are just more specific. All language is vague in some situation.

Everybody is playing the same game and wants what they desire in law and tries to reverse engineer a principled argument that gets them what they want - this cuts equally to progressives and conservatives alike, or however you like to categorise the opposite of progressive.

[Metalject]

Of course the court is going to decide how to interpret legislation - that's one of their functions. People make laws, and then of course grey areas arise in the real world. No law can plan for every situation and every eventuality. This is just how it works. There are very few laws avoid this because they are just more specific. All language is vague in some situation.

Everybody is playing the same game and wants what they desire in law and tries to reverse engineer a principled argument that gets them what they want - this cuts equally to progressives and conservatives alike, or however you like to categorise the opposite of progressive.

Right, the court's job is to interpret, but it's not to interpret what they think the law was supposed to or should mean but to interpret if it holds within or outside of the constitution. They are not supposed to judge based on their desire of what they may believe is right or wrong, just or unjust. They are intended to only judge on the constitutionality of the legislation. When they stop doing that, they are now legislating. All three branches have continued to grow their legislative power over the past 50-70yrs, but it was never intended to be that way.

As for vague words in legislation such as "reasonable", "fair", etc...at one time the court did not allow words like that to define a legislative act but that's progressively changed over the years.

And the opposite of progressive, that hardly exists in the US anymore. Look at the current GOP candidates, Bush, Huckabee, Christie (if he runs), Graham....all are major big government progressives. Some of the others not mentioned fall sort of in the middle, a slightly lighter form of progressive.

[RaginCajun]

Mine costs me just under $300/month more with higher deductibles and copays. Yeah Im not too ****ing happy. What amazes me is no one seems happy, yet here we are, this thing is a law.
Of the people , by the people and for the people my ass.

same here man! before obamacare, paid about $120/month, now, it is at $275/month with a high deductible ($6,000).

[lovbyts]

Isn't it going up 30% next year as well?

No, they are predicting up to 50% for some people now.

I'm damn close to being ready to join a r************.

[thisAngelBites]

Right, the court's job is to interpret, but it's not to interpret what they think the law was supposed to or should mean but to interpret if it holds within or outside of the constitution. They are not supposed to judge based on their desire of what they may believe is right or wrong, just or unjust. They are intended to only judge on the constitutionality of the legislation. When they stop doing that, they are now legislating. All three branches have continued to grow their legislative power over the past 50-70yrs, but it was never intended to be that way.

As for vague words in legislation such as "reasonable", "fair", etc...at one time the court did not allow words like that to define a legislative act but that's progressively changed over the years.

And the opposite of progressive, that hardly exists in the US anymore. Look at the current GOP candidates, Bush, Huckabee, Christie (if he runs), Graham....all are major big government progressives. Some of the others not mentioned fall sort of in the middle, a slightly lighter form of progressive.

This is all very simplistic. Of course jurists are people, and many jurists have integrity and try to make the case law/historical story of the law a coherent one, and others cannot help their bias influencing them (after all, how can people not be influenced by what they think is right?) and others still baldly try to legislate - there is no way around this. Law is something done by people and as such is subject to all the vagaries of all the things done by people and not some mechanical process that guarantees some objective end product. Not even science can do that.

The constitution itself is vague, and this is why whether something is constitutional or not is contentious.

The theme I see is that whenever anyone disagrees with an outcome, it's always due to bias and overreaching. Things for which there are competing arguments and positions are somehow always attributed to people deciding what the law "should" mean, as if anyone with a reasoned argument would come to the same conclusion as they do, and if not, then there is foul play. And both sides do it, and they don't realise that they fall prey to the very criticism they lodge against others.

[Honkey_Kong]

That's acceptable tho..... Because your helping someone with a pre existing condition. Don't you feel all warm and fuzzy inside? Or is that feeling just your blood pressure skyrocketing lol

The thing though is those people with pre-existing conditions still have to pay those outrageous deductibles before they can get any of their care covered. I just switched to a new PPO at my work and I get to pay a $500 deductible before my insurance even covers any of the costs. So how can somebody with a serious pre-existing condition going to come up with that bread? If it's bothering them that much, you know they're not out working and making money.

[lovbyts]

Oh you guys worry over the little stuff. Bottom line is it helps people. Who or what people is it helping? No one most of us will ever see or know. Helping them make millions or billions.

[Honkey_Kong]

Oh you guys worry over the little stuff. Bottom line is it helps people. Who or what people is it helping? No one most of us will ever see or know. Helping them make millions or billions.

It helps the people on drugs and welfare.

[Brett N]

Don't you remember. "Give us your weak, your poor, your lazy and we will feed them , clothe them and provide healthcare for them as long as all the tax payers keep allowing it"

I think that's what they taught us in school.

Even my kids know the difference between a hand up and a hand out. Wish our government would.

[Euroholic]

Just had a free doctors appointment and free hormone blood test. Haven't paid tax since i worked over a year ago. Thank you tax payer

[lovbyts]

Just had a free doctors appointment and free hormone blood test. Haven't paid tax since i worked over a year ago. Thank you tax payer

But what happens when more and more people decide to stop working, stop paying taxes because it just isnt worth it anymore? Eventually the system fails and the whole country goes into the dumps.

There will always be those elite few, the top 1% of the rich who will keep things from changing still because it's still good for them and they are in control and the people are ok with the little bit they are getting to sustain them vs working and only making a little more.

[Euroholic]

If the tax payers stops working a country is fuked!!!!!!!!! Look at greece

[lovbyts]

If the tax payers stops working a country is fuked!!!!!!!!! Look at greece

If you are working and most of your money is going to taxes, your rights and liberties are being taken away you loose the incentive to work so yes that is what happens and we are on that path now. We are not there yet but if we keep up the pace especially the last 8 years it wont be much longer.

[kelkel]

Wasn't it Margaret Thatcher (correct me if I'm wrong and i paraphrase) that said "The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money."

[Joco71]

This^^^^^ so very true.

[lovbyts]

Wasn't it Margaret Thatcher (correct me if I'm wrong and i paraphrase) that said "The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money."

Yeah and it's been proven in the classroom many times with grades that it does not work and in real world economics of other countries.

Well it looks like someone has the Supreme court under their thumb becasue the rulings coming down dont make much if any sense.
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