Guns and Ammo Thread

[Honkey_Kong]

Buzzkill.

Last time I bought their ammo, it was a box of Thunderbolt .22lr And half of them were duds! I was like "never again."

So if the new management can focus on QC and make good ammo, they might be able to salvage the name. People are desperate for ammo so they'll buy everything they put out. Now is the chance for them to shine.

[Beetlegeuse]

Anything that goes BANG! when you pull the trigger beats empty shelves at the ammo store.

And some people are sassified with shit ammo. The more shit ammo that's reaching store shelves, the better the odds that the better ammo will be there, waiting to be bought by the people who care about the difference.

[almostgone]

Last time I bought their ammo, it was a box of Thunderbolt .22lr And half of them were duds! I was like "never again."

So if the new management can focus on QC and make good ammo, they might be able to salvage the name. People are desperate for ammo so they'll buy everything they put out. Now is the chance for them to shine.

I always have better luck with the copper plated vs lead in rimfire calibers. Scuttlebutt says the rimfire are more susceptible to contamination from lube and the lead require a dab more lube vs. plated.

No idea if that's 100% accurate, but it seems plausible.

[Honkey_Kong]

I always have better luck with the copper plated vs lead in rimfire calibers. Scuttlebutt says the rimfire are more susceptible to contamination from lube and the lead require a dab more lube vs. plated.

No idea if that's 100% accurate, but it seems plausible.

It's plausible, but when I would use like CCI, I wouldn't get these problems. Maybe 1 or 2 duds in an entire brick.

Anyways, here's to hoping the new crew, the new management and new equipment make for some good ammo!

[Beetlegeuse]

Speaking of the Flarduh-Texas-Tennessee triumvirate, the governors of Flarduh and Texas already have issued executive orders forbidding the use of vaccination passports. Tennessee's senate just passed a bill that would codify banning them, and the governor is on record as opposing the passports. So it looks like all that's left is approval from the state house or representatives and the three will be in lockstep on that matter as well.

Sort of odd how those three states' positions are so similar on so many topics when they don't even share a border and wouldn't seem to have that much in common.

[Beetlegeuse]

Resolved: Keep buying guns, especially AR-15s and like weapons, ammunition, and high-capacity magazines

Decent article, two minute read. Follow the link in the headline if you're interested (author minces no words).

[almostgone]

https://govtribe.com/award/federal-i...81346db6641be9





https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...to-mainstream/

[Beetlegeuse]

https://govtribe.com/award/federal-i...81346db6641be9

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...to-mainstream/

I got a giggle out of this (from the second link):

"...It would be a game-changer for True Velocity, which has developed a polymer cased bullet that makes ammunition 30% lighter and could save 20 pounds of weight for a fully equipped soldier...."

That's a crock of shit. Anybody who's ever humped a ruck knows that lightening a grunt's basic load by 20# just makes him eligible to carry three more 60mm HE rounds and two more claymores. Don't never give a pack mule a break (makes him lazy).


RE: the polymer-cased ammo, I guess this was sort of inevitable, considering caseless ammunition seems to be dead in the water.

I remember when I first heard about HK's caseless ammunition project. That was in the mid-70s and it probably already was about a decade old by then. 40+ years on and it still ain't much more than got out of the blocks.

[almostgone]

I got a giggle out of this (from the second link):



That's a crock of shit. Anybody who's ever humped a ruck knows that lightening a grunt's basic load by 20# just makes him eligible to carry three more 60mm HE rounds and two more claymores. Don't never give a pack mule a break (makes him lazy).


RE: the polymer-cased ammo, I guess this was sort of inevitable, considering caseless ammunition seems to be dead in the water.

I remember when I first heard about HK's caseless ammunition project. That was in the mid-70s and it probably already was about a decade old by then. 40+ years on and it still ain't much more than got out of the blocks.

Yep. If you're not humping more ammo or anti-personnel ordnance, you're carrying spare batteries or additional comms.

[Beetlegeuse]

Yep. If you're not humping more ammo or anti-personnel ordnance, you're carrying spare batteries or additional comms.

A spare battery for the RTO was next on my list but I already had 20#.

[almostgone]

A spare battery for the RTO was next on my list but I already had 20#.

20# of AT-4?

[RaginCajun]

Anyone else 3D printing?

[Beetlegeuse]

Montana governor signs bill NULLIFYING federal gun bans…

Posted by Kane on April 24, 2021 4:11 pm



Montana Gov. Greg Gianforte (R) on Friday signed a bill nullifying federal gun bans.


“Today, I proudly signed Rep. Hinkle’s law prohibiting federal overreach into our Second Amendment-protected rights, including any federal ban on firearms,” Gianforte tweeted.


“I will always protect our #2A right to keep and bear arms,” the governor added.


The bill says that local and state authorities cannot enforce federal bans on guns, ammunition and magazines, The Associated Press reported. It also prohibits state funding from being used to uphold any sort of gun ban that might come from the federal government.

[Beetlegeuse]

Now Remington has officially been stripped of the contract for Big Army's precision sniper rifle and it was passed on to Barrett, to the tune of $50 million over a five year period.

Comes with everything needed to swap between 7.62 NATO, .300 Norma mag and .338 Norma mag (all from the same chassis). You're probably wondering why .338 Norma instead of .338 Lapua, since the Lapua is the darlin' of the long-range interdiction crowd. If I remember the story it's because Big Army also has a new machine gun in the pipe they intend to run the Norma round in. Although I don't especially see the relevance since it's highly unlikely you'd ever find snipers de-linking machine gun rounds to use in lieu of fussed-over handloads.

[Beetlegeuse]

It took him 13 shots but dis dude klanged the bell (52" target) at 5280 yards. Yards, not feet, ... three miles on the dot. So it would take almost exactly 1 MOA of precision to hit that target at that range.

But he's got no arms. Apparently he sits with his feet in front of him, knees-out, then bends over so he can sight through the optic, and pulls the trigger with a toe.

And it was windy, as much as 20 kts. Full story here.



Shooting .416 Barrett, Bartlein barrel, Cadex Tremor action, Night Force glass.

Bullet was a 550-gr Cutting Edge CNC solid copper with polymer tip [edit: ~$3 per projectile], same BC as a 750-gr Hornady A-Max. 2900 fps at the muzzle and about 800 fps at the target.

I looked at the ballistics on it and the bullet would have crossed the sound barrier at about 2400 yards, four seconds into a 12.6 second time of flight. So it was subsonic for the majority of its flight, ~eight seconds and ~2900 yards.

If you've ever looked at a ballistics chart for a bullet, you saw the evidence that the drag goes way, WAY down as the bullet slows to below the speed of sound.

(not the Cutting Edge bullet)


Which explains why this bullet could lose about 1800 fps in the first four seconds of flight but only 300 fps in the final 8.6 seconds. Because drag drops precipitously after the transonic transition. Which also demonstrates that there's little to no chance of making a shot like this unless the bullet can negotiate the super-to-sub-sonic transition with little to no compromise of stability. Which ain't easy because most bullets can't do it (ask anybody who's ever tried to shoot the 168-gr SMK to 1000 yards).

FWIW, using the same ballistics calculator as above, I plugged in the highest MV it would accept, 4800 fps, and at the max range that it could display, 4000 yards, the bullet was still at 1250 fps. Supersonic, but just barely. But that's also where the drag is strongest so it would have been transonic (at best) by 4200 yards. So even 5000 fps MV still wouldn't have been anywhere near enough velocity to get that bullet to 5280 yards while still supersonic.

Which makes me wonder what the practical limit for the maximum range of a small arm is. How far can they stretch it still using a chemical explosion for propulsion?

[Beetlegeuse]

Tennessee's senate has passed a measure to make itself a 2nd Amendment sanctuary state. Odd that measures like this most often start in the Tennessee senate. At the federal level, the more "out there" measures are more likely to start in the House. The US Senate, OTOH, tends to take a more measured, taciturn approach.

But in Tennessee it seems there's more firebrands in the senate.

... Senate Bill 1335 says the state will not enforce any potential federal laws or orders that it believes violate the Second Amendment and will deem them “null, void, and unenforceable.”

The measure also “prohibits the state and political subdivisions from using public resources to enforce, administer, or cooperate with the enforcement or administration of any such treaty, executive order, rule, or regulation.”

Much of the Senate debate on the bill Monday centered on whether the state had the authority to create a sanctuary in this manner....

One senate demoncrat argued, 'But ... but ... but ... that's nullification!' To which the Republican sponsor replied, 'You say that like it's a bad thing.'

[flyinlow]

This here is a DP12. Call of Duty has this exact gun (same recoil and everything). It's a bull pup 12 gauge 16 rounds 2 3/4 inch shells. I can't with words express how fun this gun is. The muzzle blast is about 15-20 feet. Barrel chokes are wicked. The spring loaded butt stock. It's made by standard manufacturing in CT. I have other guns each for its own purpose. Rifle, bolt action 6.5 CM, bird guns etc but this double barrel is just my absolute FAV

[Beetlegeuse]

An Illinois judge has ruled that the state's Firearm Owner's ID card is unconstitutional (Duh!)

A citizen in the State of Illinois is not born with a Second Amendment right. Nor does that right insure when a citizen turns 18 or 21 years of age. It is a façade. They only gain that right if they pay a $10 fee, complete the proper application, and submit a photograph. If the right to bear arms and self-defense are truly core rights, there should be no burden on the citizenry to enjoy those rights, especially within the confines and privacy of their own homes. Accordingly, if a person does something themselves from being able to exercise being able to exercise that right, like being convicted of a felony or demonstrating mental illness, then and only then may the right be stripped from them.

You can't tax or license what has been codified as "a right" in the US Constitution. It doesn't take F Lee Bailey to figure that out.

Now every swinging dick who voted for the law (or helped to write it) should be sued for civil rights violations.

This case was shepherded by the Second Amendment Foundation while the NRA was conspicuously absent.

[Beetlegeuse]

For any of you who've ever thought about getting an M1 Carbine (or building an AR chambered in .30 Carbine), this is more information relevant to 'sporterizing' an M1 than I can recall ever having seen in one place before.

[almostgone]

May be the first time I've seen a M1 carbine with a mag coupler.

[Beetlegeuse]

Tennessee's house passed the 2A sanctuary state bill that already was passed by the senate, and which the governor already has committed to signing.

I tried to get a head count on how many states that would make but the accounting gets a little ... complicated. First, there's some crossover between a 2A sanctuary bill and a Firearms Freedom bill. Second, there are states that have passed laws containing some key provisions of a 2A sanctuary bill but without labeling it as such. Third, some states have had judicial rulings setting which set a precedent that would be tantamount to making the state a 2A sanctuary, in which case they become sanctuary states not by legislation but by by legal precedent. And on top of that, there have been a number of prominent CLEOs (and I don't know how many, if any, were state-wide CLEOs) who have publicly stated they will not enforce any federal expansion to gun control laws. Twenty-nine of New Mexico's 33 high sheriffs have stated as much (through their state's sheriffs association), making it an 88% sanctuary state.

All that said, the most common number I see kicked around at websites claiming to keep track is 11. So by that accounting, Tennessee would make the 12th 2nd Amendment sanctuary state.

[Beetlegeuse]

The .30 carbine is a highly underrated cartridge. I've heard WWII combat vets offering that it was rare to come across a dead GI with an M1 Carbine because the first dogface to find him probably would have swapped his Garand for the carbine.

I've also read accounts beginning about the battle for the Hurtgen Forest/Aachen (which was a strong point in the Siegfried line) and through the end of the Battle of the Bulge, during which time real estate was prone to changing hands a number of times before one side had won out. One side effect of this back-and-forth business was that each side would throw up a makeshift stockade for EPWs, along with some facility for stockpiling the weapons of those prisoners. But the next day might find the other side in control of that piece of ground, and two days later the original occupants might be back. Which gave each side an opportunity to see first-hand which of their weapons their enemy was most fond of.

The American GIs said that whenever they recaptured positions like this, the Germans would have left them all the M1 Garands they could have wished for, but the M1 Carbines would be in short supply. So apparently the Krauts thought it was a fine round, too.

They also said the gun ran great once you figured out the magazines had a lifespan of about two weeks (without mentioning how many reloads a mag might have gone through in that two weeks).

I think I've mentioned in this thread before that the late Jim Cirillo (famous NYPD stake-out squad cop who probably was in more gunfights than any other American LEO of the latter half of the 20th Century) gave the .30 Carbine two thumbs-up. More than once he opined that with a hollowpoint bullet it was even more likely than the .44 Mag or 12-ga with either slugs or 00 buck to produce a one-shot stop. The hitch was he had to have the NYPD armorers work over the M1 Carbine's feed ramp so it would run on hollowpoint bullets.

[Beetlegeuse]

The Texas Senate passed the House's constitutional carry bill, which now goes to the governor, who has stated he will sign it.



You won't hear this from the MSM but 46% of all counties in the US of A have formally declared themselves sanctuaries to the Second Amendment.




Now that's some "greenifying" I can get behind.

[Beetlegeuse]

Sic 'em, Gaston!

Glock wins (and Biden loses) in major liability suit

God didn’t deliver for President Joe Biden, who recently begged “the Lord” to help him erase the congressionally approved immunity that gun-makers have from lawsuits.

In a little-noticed decision with a major impact on the firearms industry, a federal judge in Arizona has ruled in favor of pistol manufacturer Glock and dismissed a suit brought by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence on behalf of a man who was accidentally shot and paralyzed.

U.S. District Court Judge Susan Brnovich upheld liability immunity granted in the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act passed in 2005 to block gun-makers from a potential wave of industry-killing lawsuits.

Brnovich, nominated by former President Donald Trump and the wife of Arizona Attorney General Mark Brnovich, dismissed multiple claims in the suit that the act’s protections were illegal, writing, “The statute is constitutional.”...

[Beetlegeuse]

Doug Ducey Signs Arizona Ban on Frivolous Lawsuits Against Gun Makers

Gov. Doug Ducey (R) signed legislation over the weekend barring Arizona and Arizona entities from suing gun makers over the criminal use of firearms that were legally made, marketed, and sold.

The legislation, Senate Bill 1382, was sponsored by State Rep. Quang Nguyen (R) and State Sen. Wendy Rogers (R).

The state-level protections contained in SB 1382 are very similar to the federal protections contained in the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act.

Ducey released a statement upon signing the bill, saying, “With efforts currently underway in Washington to erode Second Amendment rights, Arizona is taking action to protect those rights.”

He added, “In Arizona, we’re safeguarding manufacturers, sellers, and trade associations. Bad actors need to be held accountable, and we will work to make sure they are. But we’re not going to allow lawsuit after lawsuit to slowly tear down the Constitutional rights of law-abiding citizens in our state.”

̶P̶r̶e̶s̶i̶d̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶J̶o̶e̶ ̶B̶i̶d̶e̶n̶ Chairman Xiden made clear on the campaign trail that he is determined to remove the protections afforded to gun manufacturers under the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act....

[Beetlegeuse]

Okay, you're probably going to think this is an April Fool's joke, but it doesn't appear to be. This website is reporting that Glock has filed a patent for a mid-stroke oprod carbine.

Es kommt! Das GLOCK Sturmgewehr

The web server is located in Austria so get out your Deutsche dictionary (but the pictures are in English). And there for sure is a patent application to go with this.

The squarish bolt carrier rides on rails similar to the AR-18/180 but with ambidextrous side-charging handles. The most unique feature appears to be a circular gas piston that surrounds the barrel, all of which appears to reciprocate and is fed by at least two gas ports. Also has a quick-change barrel, so if this isn't just an experiment that they're looking to protect their intellectual property on, it probably is intended for the military market.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

There was an old famous Irish artist named Christy Brown who had cerebral palsy and could only really control his left foot. He wrote his autobiography holding a pen with his left foot:

[Beetlegeuse]

Curious incident, and shitty reporting that poses more questions than it answers.

One dead after gun malfunction in Lackawanna County

The incident happened on Saturday afternoon at a shooting range.

ARCHBALD, Pa. — One man is dead following a gun malfunction at a shooting range in Lackawanna County.

According to the coroner, Robert Hamm, 61, of Berwick, handed his handgun to another man to shoot at the State Game Lands Shooting Range in Archbald.

The other man fired, but the loading mechanism exploded, sending shrapnel into the air. Officials believe the handgun was utilizing reloaded ammunition.

A piece of shrapnel hit Hamm in the chest. He later died at the hospital.

The other man had injuries to his face but is expected to recover.

Hamm's death was ruled accidental in Lackawanna County.

[almostgone]

https://www.army-technology.com/news...ssault-rifles/

[The Deadlifting Dog]

That's gonna take fishing to a whole new level...

[Beetlegeuse]

https://www.army-technology.com/news...ssault-rifles/

That puts me in mind of the underwater spear gun fight scenes in Thunderball.



Funny but the Rooskies have been making those things since the early 70s and I've never yet got wind of anyone using them operationally. Except maybe Spetznaz for propaganda films. It makes me wonder what their buyer has in store for these, especially since they're buying the older APS instead of the 'modernized' APM, which also can shoot respectably in the air.

[Beetlegeuse]

The two chambers of the Texas state legislature have ironed out their differences and will be sending the Constitutional Carry bill to the governor. But the linked article doesn't bother to mention what concessions they made (if any) en route to reaching an agreement.

[Beetlegeuse]

This is weirdly cool. A 3-barrel 18-shot revolver that fires in 3-shot volleys.



Chambered in .25 ACP (yes, .25 ACP) and uses full moon clips. Of obscure origin but the name on it appears to be Italian.


We don' need no stinkin' "high-capacity" magazines! All it'd take is a speed loader to give Glock a run for its money.


Source: www.guns.com/news/2012/05/10/pistola-con-caricato-18-shot-revolver

[almostgone]

https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...sia-tank-boat/

[Beetlegeuse]

https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...sia-tank-boat/

I'd like to know how they plan to employ it 'cuz I don't get it. It reminds me of the MBT-70. Hey, I got a GREAT IDEA! Let's build a tank that can do EVERYTHING that ANY tank can do!


And I don't think the author is Poopular Mechanic's best and brightest:

"...42-degree elevation gives it the ability to fire like a mortar...."

Uh ... no.

[almostgone]

I'd like to know how they plan to employ it 'cuz I don't get it. It reminds me of the MBT-70. Hey, I got a GREAT IDEA! Let's build a tank that can do EVERYTHING that ANY tank can do!


And I don't think the author is Poopular Mechanic's best and brightest:

"...42-degree elevation gives it the ability to fire like a mortar...."

Uh ... no.

Thought you would get a kick out of that..... especially the trajectory angle. Not much blooping a short arc there!

Edit: Hope it has a modern gyro, but I have a feeling it is several generations prior to this:

[Beetlegeuse]

I've seen the sales brochure for that system -- only sold with turret and gun as a unit -- and they do mention stabilization (or "stabe" as the tankers call it). Also has an autoloader, so it's got all the bells and whistles. There's probably a torpedo available to shoot out of it, too, in case they get attacked by a submarine. Or a white sperm whale. Probably costs $20 million a round (the torpedo, not the whale), but Indonesia has oil so they can afford it.

[Beetlegeuse]

Tennessee's governor has signed the 2A sanctuary bill into law. to go along with Constitutional Carry.


And they're proposing a law in Texas to exempt Texas-made suppressors from any state or local enforcement. But it doesn't protect you from the feds so it sounds like virtue-signaling to me.


This guy is arguing that the ammo shortage won't end soon. Another blog was reporting a couple of days ago that industry insiders think it probably will last at least a couple more years.

I can tell you exactly when it will end because I survived the toilet paper shortage that the coronapanic caused. TP was scarce until Wal-Mart had enough on the shelves that people no longer feared there might be a shortage on.

So long as shooters walk into ammo stores and the pickins are slim, they're going to snarf up whatever is available with no thought for whether they need it because the low supply seems an general indicator that the drought is still on. It seems circular logic but it's true. Shooters will continue to panic buy unless and until there's enough ammo on the shelves to comfort them that the drought is over.

I checked a major online retailer and counted more than 30 manufacturers of handgun ammunition. It's already a provable fact that those 30+ companies are incapable of convincing a hundred million gun owners to stop with the panic buying, so there's nobody in the cycle who can be counted on to break it except the ammo manufacturers.

[almostgone]

I've noticed several European brands @ Midway, Patriot, etc. Hopefully, the prices will ease as that is introduced into the market. Midway is still averaging .68/round for 9mm and 5.56 is averaging .67 to 1.29 depending on weight and bullet style.

I'm still in search of non-military large rifle primers and some Alliant reloder 15.

[Ernst]

If you live in Cali you cannot buy ammo online anymore. It fcukin sucks.

I still have ammo I bought in bulk saved from years ago, but I'm down to a few thousand rounds. I'll have to cave in and buy soon. Hopefully by then this nonsense will be over.

Shyt, I even bought ammo for a gun I didn't even own yet back then lol.