Wouldn't know what it feels like to live in a house without guns either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obs
Wouldn't know what it feels like to live in a house without guns either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obs
The whole Benghazi thing makes my blood boil. I follow Tanto and John Tiegen online. I’ve seen about every interview those guys have done. The lies that are told to John Q Public about what happened and what these guys say actually happened should have been grounds to impeach Obama and criminally charge Hillary. But it’s put out as some sort of right wing conspiracy. Like the guys on the ground don’t know what they witnessed and experienced.
It’s down right embarrassing for the US of mother fucking A to have lost a US ambassador. People don’t fully realize how catastrophic that is. It baffles me that democract or republican would think what happened there was ok. If a republican president did something like that. I would be calling for his impeachment too. I’m not a party line guy, just to be clear. But that was the worse thing to have let happen since 9/11...
I want one or the other or bothQuote:
Originally Posted by Couchlockd
Nitro express 700
Tango and Boon teach classes. I’m waiting for them to get closer to my location. And do the weekend class.Quote:
Originally Posted by MuscleScience
And it happened on 9/11. It’s been a significant for Muslims for hundreds of years.
I didn’t know that, how so?Quote:
Originally Posted by Capebuffalo
https://onepeterfive.com/the-top-4-r...cant-to-islam/Quote:
Originally Posted by MuscleScience
Was unaware myself
Every 9/11 it’s in the back of my head some shit is going to break off. I carry the ar on the passenger seat every 9/11 just Incase.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capebuffalo
I was not aware of all that, very informative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Capebuffalo
I use to carry a truck gun everywhere. Use to be for shooting vermin out in the pasture or dirt road. Now I carry it to stop mass shootings like the guy did a few years back. If Trump doesn’t win in 2020. We all better stock up on 30 round mags. Well more than We have now...
Oh don’t get me wrong the ar is always with the truck. Just not on the seat like it is on 9/11. Also my plate carrier w/ 3 30 rd mags in the rear passenger door. Thigh rig with 2 30rd mags and 2 15 rd mags for the Glock. Need a ballistic helmet but don’t have the cash for that right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by MuscleScience
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuscleScience
So you have those then the World Trade building attacks and Benghazi all on 9/11. So it makes sense that there will be something in the future on a 9/11.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsE...rvF2ImeNWh84mw
You guys ever watch this channel? Lots of interesting real world examples.
Yes their videos were recommended to my feed. World is full of idiots like the one that hit that disabled cerebral palsy man.Quote:
Originally Posted by MuscleScience
That little bastard deserved a bullet I would have came in my pants grinding his face off on the concrete.
My suggested videos are all bbing, defense, and police videos where the criminal gets away or wins.
I’ve actually got one of their t shirts.Quote:
Originally Posted by MuscleScience
There's nothing wrong with the AR15 that the right round won't fix. Most of the GI cartridges are for shit. Get Black Hills 77-gr OTM (MK262 Mod1) or 75-gr Hornady TAP and you're ready to rock (but a 1:12 barrel won't cut it). If you need barrier blind, go with Federal 62-gr Bonded JSP or Speer 64-gr Gold Dots.
And there's nothing says your AR has to be in 5.56. You can get 'em in everything from .17 HMR to .50 Beowulf.
I'm reading very strong rumors that DoD is seriously looking at dumping the 5.56 for 6.8 SPC (for real, this time). It bears mention that John Garand designed his brilliant M1 Garand around the .276 Pederson but it got switched to .30-06 because we had a shit-ton of Aught-Six left over from WWI. Significantly, the Pederson used a .284 bullet and the SPC's is .277.
Black Hills is damn good ammo. Expensive but good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beetlegeuse
Can you tell me why it is we never adopted a .284 seeing as how it has the greatest ballistic coefficiency capabilities of any caliber ** that can reasonably be put into a standard issue weapon with any sort of cost effectivity**Quote:
Originally Posted by Beetlegeuse
I am bewildered as to why it has been so ignored in everything but long range shooting.
In long rage shooting it is king.
One would think it would be the US militarys primary round across the board.
Btw I dont mean the .284 win round I mean that caliber in general.
Just a small example:
7mm Remington Magnum outperforms the 300 Remington Ultra Mag at 1000 yards. The difference is a BC of 0.640 for the 7mm versus 0.410 of the 300.
These are generalized of course but step that up to a 7mm RUM vs a 338 or 300 RUM and it still beats it in most loads.
Fact is for small arms a .284 caliber bullet can be utilized to a higher BC than any round I have seen with less propellant. It is more cost effective to 1000yrds than any I have seen. Bearing in mind I established all this to my self when I was a teen. Dont know all the new calibers after 2005 or so.
Seems to me small arms today should be effective to 1000 yrds within reason without tumbling bullets or totally pissing in the wind.
Jmo... Though I never organized the most powerful military in history and know dick compared to armorers today.
This is my dream build, I will use it as a Hog Gun. I’d have it built but I just can’t decide on the Caliber. I guess I could build a couple of uppers and just swap out. But I’m kinda cheap lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Obs
Attachment 175691
Thats gorgeous!Quote:
Originally Posted by MuscleScience
What cals available?
.308, 6.5creedmoor and a couple other AR10 calibersQuote:
Originally Posted by Obs
You do a lot of hog hunting?Quote:
Originally Posted by MuscleScience
No, because i don’t have a hog gun. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Capebuffalo
But it’s on my bucket list. I want to do it sooooo bad.
Military small arms cartridges in general are not overly concerned with BC because they all have a maximum range well in excess of their maximum effective range. The maximum range of the M-16A1 rifle (with M193 ball) is 2653 meters but its effective range is only 460 meters. That other 2200 meters only gets used once in a blue moon so nobody much cares what you can hit in that range.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obs
A higher-BC bullet would make it flatter-shooting at every range (which increases the shooter's error budget for ranging and holdover) but in target practice the army's longest range is only 300 meters. M193's MV from the A1's 20" bbl is 3250 fps and they zero at 250 meters so it just isn't that challenging to get the holdover right from 75 to 300 meters.
The army has been working with this same set-up for more than 50 years and enough recruits are able to get at least minimally qualified that they've not seen fit to change the recipe.
With the M4 carbine's 14.5-inch barrel the "realistic" effective range is considerably less (with M193) because it only gets 2991 fps from the shorter tube, which means it slows to below minimum velocity needed for fragmentation inside of 250 meters. And if it doesn't fragment, all you get is an "ice pick" wound. Particularly for the poodle-shooter (5.56), terminal ballistics is more important than external ballistics.
EDIT:
In case you haven't heard, it's another major score for Ronnie Barrett. The army has picked his MRAD to be their new sniper rifle. Barrett built the MRAD for a SOCOM competition, which Remington won, but Big Army apparently liked the MRAD well enough. But they want it in 300 PRC, which is not a cartridge it had been offered in previously. So props to the army for blazing new trails and ditching the damn belted .300 WinMag cartridge. The PRC is better suited to ELR anyway because the bullet can be seated much, much longer, which conserves case capacity and allows use of longer, higher BC bullets.
1000+ yards shots have been so common over the course of Dubya's GWOT that the army (and the Corps) found that the 7.62 NATO often just wasn't enough gun. The army started converting some of their M24s to .300 WinMag a little over 10 yeas ago but I guess they've decided to bite the bullet and field a whole new platform.
The reason this I go to the trouble to mention this is that the army has fielded only two 'standard' long guns since the M16. The first was the .50 BMG Barrett M82/M107 and now the second is the Barrett MRAD. That's some track record for a guy with zero engineering experience who designed and built a .50 BMG in his spare time in his garage for the specific purpose of marketing it to the military.
Makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beetlegeuse
I do feel riflemen in the marines would love it though amoung others. Heck though for all I know some units may have the option.
I always figured most anyone can be readily trained to hit a human sized target 1 out of 3 times at 800 yrds.
I am definitely no expert on the capabilities of the average military prsonnel though.
**I also feel we are the cowboys. Our shit should hit harder and do more damage than the rest of the worlds. All of it lol
I read the edit.. That is cool.
O know some of the snipers have been totin 338 for a while. I literally never heard of the 300 prc.
Sweet looking gun right there!Quote:
Originally Posted by MuscleScience
This is a great thread!
Hell, the damn jarhe ...I mean Marines ...are still pissed that they had to give up the M-14. They practice on a 500-yard target, and that was an 'iffy' proposition with the M-16A1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obs
The Corps recognized that the 14.5" bbl caused a lot of problems they didn't want to deal with so they stuck with the 20-incher all through Iraq. There was so much CQC and house-clearing there, and the long barrel rifle with a fixed stock was such a handicap, their grunts developed a technique they called "short-stocking" Once they got inside of a house, where accuracy wasn't real critical because they were only shooting 10 feet, instead of pressing the butt stock against their shoulder, they'd rest the stock on top of their shoulder with the buttplate maybe six inches past their shoulder. Then tilt the rifle over to bring the optic in front of their eye. All of which made it easier for them to "drive" a too-long weapon around corners and stairwells. And they could get away with it because of the optics (because eye relief wasn't an issue) and the weapon's low recoil.
The sights on the original batch of 1903 Springfields were graduated to 2800 yards. I shit you not, iron sights marked to 1.6 miles.Quote:
I always figured most anyone can be readily trained to hit a human sized target 1 out of 3 times at 800 yrds.
But the way we fight and who we're fighting has changed. If these motherfuckers had the balls to stand out in the open and fight us, they'd be dead before the infantry closed to within small arms range because the air strikes and preparatory arty would have vaporized every swingin' dick of 'em before the grunts ever got off the truck. So they don't.
The army is slow to react to this kind of stuff because history has taught them that the current war always ends, the next war always comes, and just because you're not fighting the guys you were expecting to at this moment, that doesn't mean they aren't the next in line. And them godless Russians are always in the back of their minds, so they resist disarming for that fight just so they can fight this one.
Back when the Brits and the Aussies also were married to the poodle-shooter, they also had one man per infantry squad armed with a 7.62 L1A1(known to the rest of the world as the FN-FAL, the right arm of Democracy). We sort of went that way in Iraq when the army and the Corps both added a designated marksman to each infantry squad. He got an M-16 with a 20" 1:8 match-grade barrel and a more powerful optic, so he could TCOB out to 800.
Hell, I saw soldiers in Iraq with M-14s the army had taken out of mothballs, or Springfield M1A1s (in either case with a high-powered optic), so there's no question Big Army recognizes there are problems that the 5.56 is strained to resolve.
But another change that I know is coming up (in the not-to-distant future) is suppressors for all the grunts. Which turns a 14.5" bbl into a 20-incher or a 20-incher into 26. So solving the 5.56's problems with a longer barrel has a short life expectancy.
Which is another feather in the cap of the 6.8 SPC, because it was designed specifically for the SBR role.
Beetlegeuse, where do you find all this interesting information?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beetlegeuse
Edit- I just caught where you seen some of this first hand. Didn't know you were in the military. Thanks for everything.
Great post!Quote:
Originally Posted by Beetlegeuse
Actually clarified some shit for me.
I remember reading about aussies with their 303 enfields in ww1 shooting at a foxhole way the hell out. The bullet drop was so immense that after a day of firing they had killed every last one of them in the hole. They were using primitive optics but still got the job done. I read that story probably 100 times as a kid in some old magazine.
That was my bedtime entertainment as a kid from 8-18. Field and stream, guns and ammo, NAHC, and nra mags.
We had no internet so I became obsessed.
Don't forget the old school porn like the underwear section in clothing store magazines and fredericks of Hollywood(whatever it was called) etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obs
Lmao! That aint no shit!Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyJ
Everybody had that perverted uncle that left shit laying around they finally discovered the hard stuff.
When the army and the Marines bought Remington 700 sniper rifles, the army went with a long action and called it the M24. The Corps bought a short action and called it the M40.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obs
Along comes Dubya's GWOT and >1000-yard sniper shots become as common as a haircut. And sometimes even the .308 ain't enough gun. So (I think it was in 2007) the army converted a bunch of M24s to .300 WinMag for covering that gap. But the Corps didn't have that option because the .300 WinMag cartridge is too long for the Remington short action.
Darn the luck, they couldn't convert the old ones so they were just gonna have to buy new guns. And being as they are jarhe ...I mean ...Marines, they figured if you're gonna be a bear, be a grizzly. So they skipped over the WinMag and went Lapua.
I can only guess that the army thinks that the jobs the .338 could have done but that the .300 PRC can't will be few and far between, and when they crop up, they'll just have to pull out the Barrett .50. But the PRC does promise a bit more range than the WinMag. But it is very unlike Big Army to step out of the ordinary like that.
All thats awesome read.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beetlegeuse
I swear when I was customizing I cursed the .308.
The freaking bullet drop on tose things and horrible BC at 1000 yards meant tumbling bullets at times.
Not to say a guy didnt put a 308 through some poor bastard sideways at 1200 but good lord what could those gusys have done with a real long range cartridge if they did that!?
I remember reading a book by Ed Kugler in vietnam. He was a sniper with a sgit ton of confirmed kills and said the worst thing that ever happened to him was when they took away his model 70 win.
He still did amazing work but given a longer range weapon that guy would have stood out a lot more in history books.
Off topic but I figured y'all would enjoy this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QokV7HzJhG4
Be sure the sound is turned up.
My man was Carlos White Feather Hathcock. He was a bad man. And would end your life before you heard the rifle report.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obs
I just so happen to be a domesticated terrorist.
Attachment 175719
Does anyone know if the new charles daly triple can be single dumped or is it a rotating pin only?
There's a story of him putting one right through the scope of an opposing sniper. I don't know if it's a true story but I've heard it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Capebuffalo
Recoil Web is reporting that Barrett is getting paid $50 mil for its new Advanced Sniper Rifle.
http://i68.tinypic.com/6rj4wk.jpg
Not bad for a small-time studio photographer turned arms manufacturer.
One thing in the article I found hilarious was a quote from Ronnie Barrett: “I remember Chris telling me that ‘this is what all precision rifles will look like one day!’ and he was right. However, aesthetics is not all that makes this rifle; as his development persisted, he was able to achieve more than I ever thought possible. I genuinely believe this is the most accurate rifle in the world.”
He's obviously working really hard to sell the world on the idea that he's leaving the company in hands that are even more capable than his as he gradually turns over the reins to son Chris. Not that that's such a hard task because the ASR truly is Chris's baby (an old acquaintance of mine is one of their mechanical engineers). He's also done overhauls on the M82/107, cutting weight and improving the ergonomics, so Dad brought him along gradually.
What I find most remarkable about Barrett is that (with the exception of a few rifles Armalite sold to the military for evaluation and SF use before Stoner sold the AR-15 design to Colt) he's the only arms supplier to ever sell weapons to the US military who invented, manufactured, marketed and mass-produced what he was selling all on his own. Makes for a very tidy profit margin.
That Big Army would be willing to spend 50 mil on a new sniper rifle is just more evidence that this is the golden age of sniping. And the knowledge that you can actually shoot something from that far away has sparked a long-range shooting fad the likes of which I've never seen before. Just 10 years ago the nearest range of at least 1000 yards was nearly a three hour drive from me. Now within three hour's drive I've got four ranges of at least 1000 yards (one of which is an even mile) plus another that's "only" 980 yards (but at least it's close-by).
There was no independent confirmation but Hathcock said he did it, and he was never known to stretch the truth. Mythbusters has studied that twice, specifically whether it's possible to have a rifle bullet pass through a scope end-to-end. The first one was a "hell no" and a bunch of Marines must've threatened to kill 'em because they did it a second time and came up with "maybe but doubtful." I was a fan in the early years but firearms always was one of the Mythbuster's weak spots.Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyJ