Can anyone suggest which option is the best and at what times?
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Can anyone suggest which option is the best and at what times?
It depends on your lifestyle, goals, intensity in the gym, ability to recover, how much volume you need, etc.
If (your recovery is only good enough to handle 3 days per week or EOD):
full body is the way to go. If you can recover quicker but find it hard to find time to get to the gym, you can still make 99% of your progress with it
Else:
Pick a split you like
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I just do not recommend a bodybuilding split to anyone. Only if your recovery is crap and you don't like being out of the gym for more than a couple days a week. But it's still not optimal. No one needs a week to recover a body part (maybe legs if you lift like a beast)
If you haven't been doing it long enough to properly gauge recovery (6 years lifting consistently, and I still question it myself), do full body.
I like one body part one day 5 days a week.
Here lately ive been doing full body and im responding well to it but am slowly going back to the original one bodypart per session. The full upper body pump is kinda addicting
I follow guys like Dr Mike Israetel and Dr Brad Schoenfield and try to keep up on the 'science of hypertrophy' and follow reviews on the studies that are currently coming out in sports and exercise science . over the last 5 years a ton of good information has come out and the science is getting more and more clear.
heres a few points I've learned from both the scientific literature as well as anecdotal evidence working with and training clients
- frequency is a major driver in building new muscle tissue . maintaining existing muscle tissue does not require near the amount of frequency. the average person (per the science) is going to benefit the most from 2-3 sessions per body part per week. so that means the traditional 'bro split' of one body part per week is not going to be best (again for "average" people) . so you should design your split so that your hitting , for example, legs 2x per week, back 2x per week, arms 3x per week etc..
now this higher frequency does NOT mean your volume is suddenly drastically increased just because your hitting muscle groups multiple times per week . NO , your volume stays fixed in between your MEV and your MRV (MEV= minimum effective volume , and MRV= Maximum recoverable volume)..
so if your current meso cycle has your volume for chest starting out at say 12 working sets per week. that does NOT mean you do 12 sets every time you train chest in the higher frequency training system. if your doing chest 2x per week, then your doing 6 working set sessions per chest workout (or 8 and 4).
so you set your volume per body part first ,, then you set your frequency and training split.
so I mentioned high frequency works best for the "average person" - heres the reason why, and heres why I emphasize "average person" .. is because their are outliers to this scientific principal . some people just do not fit the general trend.
heres someone that does not fit the trend and is an outlier . Larry Wheels (super strong) or even your average 300 pound IFBB pro bodybuilder.
so if the science says that higher frequency training hitting muscle groups 2-3x per week (within your set volume load) works best for building muscle.. then why do a lot of pros do the traditional one body part per week bro split !? wouldn't they get better gains following the science ?
no they wouldn't .. and heres why. they are not average and they are outliers .
their load, mechanical tension, and volume is so ridiculously high they couldn't recover from higher frequency. their workouts cause way more homeostatic stress and CNS disruption then an average person.
heres an example -
their chest day .. they are bench pressing 495 for 8 reps on the bench press, then hitting 160 pound dumbbell incline press for 12 reps and 5 sets.
that work capacity and load causes way more homeostatic stress and disruption then us average guys that are bench pressing 275 and then hitting 90 pound dumbbells .
the reason they may do a one body part per week bro split is because they may actually require a whole week for their chest to recover.. us average people on the other hand, just like the science seems to point to , will probably not cause that much stress per work out and therefore benefit from a lot more frequent and hitting body parts more often .
so you need to take a personal assessment of yourself and realize where your at in your lifting career . don't just copy what jay cutler did. your not jay cutler..
thats the first step .
I can post up more in regards to how to set up your volume and frequency in another post
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeaded
We are all different and so should our training be. Although I do not think changed is required to grow I like the idea of doing things to shock the body. I been doing a modified "bro split" for a while now. I have been isolating muscles but hitting them more than once a week. I am now on a deload/break for the next four days then I am starting a new routine. I will be doing full body 3 days a week and see how I respond to it. I am sure I will not get as much of a pump as the bro split but I am curious to see how my body adapts.
here are some examples of training splits I have various clients running
- soccer mom.. wants to get fit but only has about 3 days per week to get into the gym.
she's on a full body training split with compound exercises. does the same routine 3x per week. she is going to do a vertical push movement, a horizontal push movement, a vertical pull movement, a horizontal pull movement, and then do legs with a quad dominant movement and then a hamstring dominant movement . done.
the reps and sets scheme . there are 4 working sets per exercise.. 2 sets are going to be moderately heavy in the 8 rep range, then 2 sets are going to be for 20 reps, but with failure coming in around rep 13-15, and you then rest pause for 10 seconds and extend the set until you finally reach 20 reps.
the progressive overload being applied here is to have the client eventually get to 20 solid reps with the same weight they've been using and not fail in the middle of the set. once they achieve that, they increase the weight.
every body part is hit 3x per week
- Athlete.. main goal is to get stronger.
he is on a 3 on 1 off spit, set up as a 'push' 'pull' 'legs',, which revolve around the bench press, deadlift, and squat.. for the first 3 on training sessions we focus mostly on the main lifts and get most our work done there and then hit working sets of 5 sets of 5. then we go on to accessory movements in the 10 rep range (accessory movement for a push day would be over head machine press, dumbbell press etc..).. then we take our rest day and come back and do the exact same program for our next 3 on training sessions, only this type its a little more hypertrophy focused and the main lift working sets are at 10 reps and the accessory lifts are at 15.
every body part is hit 2x per week . the progressive overload here is simply adding weight to the bar
- bodybuilder.. get big lean and jacked.
this is where I generally stray away from traditional 'weekly splits' , instead I program everything in micro cycles and meso cycles.. a micro cycle is a series of workouts that must all be completed to complete the cycle (not based on a calendar week) . so I may have a list of say 6-10 different workouts. the goal of the client here is to just get through that list of individual workouts and add in rest days when needed. some days may actually be two a day and two workouts get done in one day, some days one a day, and some days none a day. once all 10 workouts are done, then that completes the micro cycle and you repeat the same 10 workouts again.. the meso cycle dictates how many micro cycles you run. so lets say you do those 10 individual workouts for a total of 6 times and it takes you 12 weeks. well thats your meso cycle.. after that cycle we de-load and start a new training block.
now the bodybuilders plan is going to be a bit more technical.. each individual workout has a purpose. there will be tons of factors added in. we will likely have RIR based sets (reps in reserve .. where you go to a set number or reps that are just shy of failure ,, so a 2 RIR for example would be 2 reps short of failure).. we will then have sets that are past failure sets where we implement intensity techniques like rest pause, drop sets, giant sets, etc.. within the micro cycle workouts we may have "phases" so for example phase 1 of the micro cycle may be lower rep higher intensity working sets in the 6-8 rep range, phase 2 may be more isolation based training in the 15-20 rep range and more pump focused, and then phase 3 may simply be weak body part training..
with this client. being we are bodybuilding and its likely for an advanced lifter your not going to bring up every single body part all at the same time (like you can with newb lifters), the volume and frequency is set up with a focus on body parts. so some body parts may simply be in a maintenance phase and only hit once per week within a micro cycle and other body parts may be hit 3x per week..
at this level you can't just destroy every single body part 2x per week every single week . you have to carefully pick and choose your battles.. if your goal and battle for that certain 12 week meso cycle is to bring up your legs, then you need to put your fire power on your legs and your chest may simply need to revert to just maintenance mode
the progressive overload here may change meso cycle to meso cycle.. it is likely to start with RIR. so the beginning of the meso cycle a lot of sets may be set with an RIR of 4 , then progress to 3, then 2 then 1 . this is both taking care of progressive overload and also slowly adding volume over time (much different progressive overload approach then just merely adding weight to the bar)
anyhow. I could keep going. there are lots of variables that go into training splits , and things can get pretty advanced . but hope that gives you an idea and some things to think about
yes I'm involved in a lot more then just AAS wizardry :)
I learned what suited me quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeaded
When I trained one part per week I grew consistently.
When I tried doing arms and quads etc I stood still regardless of what I ate.
If my diet does not match my training load I leave the gym. Nothing is worse mentally than putting in more effort physically than what a diet can maintain anabolically.
This is why I am where I am.
I cannot grow more until the workload ceases.
Hypertrophy wont happen in a catabolic state.
There is an angry bitch in me that wants to leave my career and stay anabolic.
It wasnt hard for me to know the balance.
Going to the gym so exhausted tou cant rep half of your norm wont get a person anywhere.
Aligning diet and exercises to stay in an anabolic state is an almost natural feel for me.
I step out of anabolism and I know it immediately from weakness. There is a big difference between fatigue and weakness.
Fatigue you cant muster the drive to go on. Gas with no fire.
Weakness you have the drive but you are too fucked up to go forward. Fire with no gas.
I feel like a lot of guys dont understand intensity enough in their life to understand the difference naturally.
I may be tired and in a catobolic state when I get home. Though I am gd furious that I cant lift to avail because of my pysical state. I want to, I have the drive, but the gas isnt there for my fire.
Same thing with too many muscle groups being trained. You get zapped of what you can feed and repair from too much breakdown and you enter a catabolic state.
I hate my job and I need hired bitches.
Got to haul dirt part of the day today, damn it was nice.
It was a great reminder of how shitty life is.