What the heck did vegan/vegetarians eat during the ice age ?

[GearHeaded]

ok so during the ice age, there were no Oreos, Doritos, Ramen Noodles (what young vegans thrive on).. and their were no Kale shakes, veggie burgers, spinach and broccoli , or grains (what a bit more mature vegans may thrive on).

so what the heck did they eat . they surely couldn't eat the frozen tundra and small patches of grass and bark off trees like the animals could (we don't have a 4 chamber stomach that can convert these things into nutrition).

hmmm . did they eat meat like everyone else ?


hmm.. maybe the ice age tons of years ago was a scourge from god to rid the earth of vegans.

idk , maybe a new scourge is coming. where I live, before halloween my kids had school cancelled 4 times already because of blizzards and winter storms. that is rare. major highways have been canceled. I have half foot of snow frozen all over my property.
ice age is coming mother F'ers !! its a vegan 'purge'!!


funny thing is , all of us that are alive today and descendants of meat eaters. thats the only way our genetics and ancestors made it through the ice age.

unless you were willing to jump on a tundra eating animal and slit its throat and drink its blood and eat its raw flesh and liver and brains (and share with your friends and family) . you didn't survive .

so all of us alive today are descendants of those type of people and have 'meat' eating in our genes . the vegans died out.

now that Veganism is getting so popular again . its gonna get COLD. real fucking cold. I bet we have record winters and lowest recorded temps this year in many areas.
research it . theres already been record cold temps and snow in various places all across the world and snow has fallen in the Southern Hemisphere where its never snowed before . records are being broken.


of course I'm just messing around here a bit. thats why this is in the lounge. but interesting discussion perhaps (can't always talk about drugs)


edit - I'm not messing around about all the severe cold temp records being broken all over the world and snow falling where its not supposed to be falling.

[GearHeaded]

at first the liberals wanted us to believe in global warming for their agenda.. then when the climate has been shown to actually be getting way colder and some scientist believe an actual ice age is coming they changed it to "climate change" to fit their agenda .

well either way, I call the coming "ice age" a Vegan Purge they can call it climate change and tax us more for our gas usage and our meat consumption if they want . but at the end of they day , we will win again just like last time it got cold (eat meat or die)

[GearHeaded]

this is my house a few months ago a few days after my kids got out of school for summer break

can you imagine being a kid and getting out for summer break and 3 days later this is what you woke up to !

well my kids are back in school for fall and we've already had 4 school cancelations for blizzards . I've lived in this state my whole life, I don't remember getting that many snow days all year when I was a kid .


no I don't live in Montana , not even close to that far north . but heck they got a 4 foot blizzard in September.




just saying .. maybe should stock up on some meat just in case vegans the world is getting colder and colder


Edit - this video was published in September . and no I don't live anywhere in any of those states in this video .. I'm WAY farther south then that . a short drive to the southeast of me and I will be in a slight desert with rattle snakes and cactus . not even anywhere close to Canada, yet the cold and snow has been ridiculous here.

[Beetlegeuse]

The chief reason that we are the most advanced of all the apes is that we alone became sophisticated hunters and had a meat-rich diet.

Eating meat made us human

...CONCLUSION

In short, the increase of the brain of Homo was possible by changing diet, which allowed a shorter digestive tract and smaller masticatory apparatus. In turn, to achieve these more energy foods more intelligence is required, resulting in more complex behaviors such as the use of manufactured tools....

[Beetlegeuse]

t...just saying .. maybe should stock up on some meat just in case vegans the world is getting colder and colder...

Vegans would be handy to have around in the event of famine because everything tastes like what it eats, and everybody knows grass-fed meat tastes best.

[GearHeaded]

The chief reason that we are the most advanced of all the apes is that we alone became sophisticated hunters and had a meat-rich diet.

Eating meat made us human

correct . it actually is what made our brain develop so far. I think the discovery of fire played a key role as well ( we were able to cook meat as well as other things that changed nutrition profiles of foods and allowed us to better assimilate them without the 'anti nutrients' contained in un cooked foods)

[Obs]

Video coming

[Obs]

Energy is obtained, processed, and spent.

Hence, stars burn and burn out.

You are not perpetual. Nothing is.

Logic would say be sensible not overboard.

[GearHeaded]

love it !

[GearHeaded]

Obs , when the "winter apocalypse" happens we need to team up

[Obs]

Obs , when the "winter apocalypse" happens we need to team up

I will sit on my ass with a 2000 yrd field of view and an 8-32x 56mm 16th click moa scope on a 7mm RUM and we can take turns lifting and eating cows.

[GearHeaded]

I will sit on my ass with a 2000 yrd field of view and an 8-32x 56mm 16th click moa scope on a 7mm RUM and we can take turns lifting and eating cows.

kinda exactly what I was thinking ,, at least during the day .

but when we take shots of whisky and get a little feisty at night (instead of bar fighting each other) we jump on the back of some wondering pigs and stab them in the throat

[GearHeaded]

just to clarify how close me and Obs are.. for me its only a slight differece of using a 300 RUM instead of 7mm

[Obs]

just to clarify how close me and Obs are.. for me its only a slight differece of using a 300 RUM instead of 7mm

300 rum is aeesome.
I hate the short actions. Its not the same.

The old 7rum was the best damn BC I ever found.

I shot a yearling at a moments notice with it at 475 yrds.

I was into old habits and held 4 inches above his back in line with the heart. Well that was a screw up.

I cut the tendons on his spine at his neck connection.

He dropped on the spot with paralysis and I had to snap his neck as... He wasnt on our side of the ground.
No field dress or quartering.
I just threw him on my back and trotted the 1/2 mile to the house lol

My brother used the 300 a lot.

I absolutely loved the 7 Rum.
Only thing I didnt like was that after 2000 rounds the barrel was spent.

They were all balls and no penis.

[Beetlegeuse]

correct . it actually is what made our brain develop so far....

The modern gorilla is the blueprint of where we were headed without a carnivorous diet. It has a big belly because it has to eat a huge volume of low-energy foods daily. The big belly makes it difficult to walk erect and forces knuckle-dragging quadrapedalism. And the low energy food and low protein diet limits brain development.

A diet of fruits, gains and nuts requires powerful mastication. Powerful mastication requires a massive zygomatic bone to support the powerful jaw muscles. Having a massive zytomatic bone limits the potential for growth of the brain case for the simple reason that there's no room for it.


Skull of Australopithecus showing
prominent zygomatic bone and
structurally limited brain vault

The Homo group (as in Homo Sapien) split from the Australopithecines about 5 million years ago. After that, owing to Homo's increased meat intake, the teeth shrank, the jaw shrank, the jaw muscles shrank and the zygomatic bone shrank, making room for greater brain development. And thanks to the meat-rich diet, there was excess protein to support a bigger brain.

Homo's belly shrank owing to the smaller volume of higher energy food required to thrive, which allowed a more upright posture. The more upright posture gave us the luxury of using our hands for things other than walking, like making tools. Upright posture also made us able to observe things from further away, which aided in both hunting and self-defense.

More brain power and gaining dexterity in the hands made us able to make tools, like spears and skinning knives, which made us better hunters.

It was a positive reinforcement loop. The more meat we ate, the more protein there was for the brain, the more upright we could walk, the more things we learned to do with our hands, the better we could hunt, and the more meat there was for the eating.


EDIT:
The skull of a modern lowland gorilla, showing a similarly robust zygomatic bone. And the matching lower jaw also is quite massive.



The lowland gorilla's brain is further limited by the sagittal crest, the ridge of bone running down the middle of its skull, which is another adaptation to support the massive jaw muscles.

[GearHeaded]

Energy is obtained, processed, and spent.

Hence, stars burn and burn out.

You are not perpetual. Nothing is.

Logic would say be sensible not overboard.

I'm going to re post this just cause how much I love this video

[i_SLAM_cougars]

at first the liberals wanted us to believe in global warming for their agenda.. then when the climate has been shown to actually be getting way colder and some scientist believe an actual ice age is coming they changed it to "climate change" to fit their agenda .

well either way, I call the coming "ice age" a Vegan Purge they can call it climate change and tax us more for our gas usage and our meat consumption if they want . but at the end of they day , we will win again just like last time it got cold (eat meat or die)

[diesel101]

Gonna have to hunt and eat meat to survive? Yeah I think I can handle that

[Beetlegeuse]

It was no mere coincidence that our ancestors began walking upright and took up hunting as a way of life at the same time that our brain was undergoing massive expansion.


The Vegan Brain
Plant-based diets, micronutrients, and mental health

...The science is clear on this point: unsupplemented vegan diets pose great danger to brain health....

If you need pills to balance your diet, it isn't much of a diet.



Meat Is Brain Food

...[V]eganism’s total exclusion of animal nutrients poses some serious problems for the human body...

...Clinical research finds that people on vegan diets commonly suffer from a variety of nutritional deficiencies....

Leading Nutritionist Claims Vegan Diets Can Stunt Brain Development

Dr Emma Derbyshire claims plant-based diets risk dumbing down the brain power of future generations

..."We are at risk of dumbing down the brain power of the next generation," said Derbyshire. "The train is moving so fast, and more people are ditching meat and eggs. But it could leave many women of childbearing age deficient in this key nutrient."...

My family has been at the fore of efforts to position man at the top of the food chain for going on 200,000 years. And I'll be hanged if I'll sit idly by and watch the results of their efforts squandered.

You should make it a point to go outside today and kill something ... anything ... just to remind you how it's done.

[Beetlegeuse]

How Vegetarianism Is Bad For You And The Environment

People who make the decision to change their diets and embrace a vegan or vegetarian lifestyle can do so for a number of reasons. Some believe in the sanctity of all life and are against all forms of animal cruelty. They seek to exclude the exploitation of other animals for food, clothing or any other purpose. Some also believe that eating meat is unhealthy and/or that raising beef cattle and dairy cows is bad for the environment and ecologically irresponsible.

Taking each of these points into consideration, let’s take a look at the big picture to clear up any misinformation and save you from compromising your health by becoming an herbivore. We won’t get into a discussion of individual moral ethics. This article will discuss eating animals strictly from a heath perspective.

Animal cruelty
Paleo dietary principles align very well with happy well treated animals so whenever we refer to eating animals, the reference is to grass fed pastured animals. Eating animals that have been well treated, well fed and let free to graze on pastures all day long are healthy. Their fat content will be much higher in Omega-3 and they are without hormones and antibiotics, in strict contrast to CAFO animals that are diseased, distressed, and physically unhealthy.

Unfortunately, in order for one organism to live, another has to die. It’s part of nature’s food chain. Vegans and vegetarians don’t have any problem with big cats killing zebras, gazelles, and giraffes. They’ll also kill livestock if they can. Wolves kill deer, caribou, mountain goats and hares. There are no vegetarian snakes. They eat frogs, rabbits, and eggs. Even predatory ladybugs eat aphids and other pest insects. When it comes to humans, however, some vegetarians believe that killing animals for food is immoral and harmful to the environment that supports them.

* Cultures who have been known to be primarily plant eaters did so because meat was scarce, but they supplemented their diets with grubs, larvae, cicada nymphs, grasshoppers, and other insects, learning what was edible by observing other animals.

* Currently, more than half the world’s population of 7 billion people still favors and farms these excellent sources of protein from dewinged dragonflies to fire roasted tarantulas.

Everyone should feel a moral twinge when it comes to factory farmed animals. Most are indeed treated cruelly beyond what any living thing should be made to endure. Animals raised in CAPOs are often malnourished, hungry and thirsty, in pain, injured or diseased, live in distress, and cannot express their natural behaviors. This has a direct affect on their nutritional density.

That’s one of the reasons our Paleo Dietary Guidelines recommend eating only grass fed animals (or wild animals and seafood) that are free to roam and eat what they choose, living in comfort and contentment every day of their lives. Animals are rarely “stocked”. Calves, for example, are birthed from the existing herd and the rancher knows each animal personally.

Eating meat is unhealthy

Eating plants definitely has its benefits. There are thousands of phytonutrients, and likely many more undiscovered, in all of nature’s colorful bounty. They’re also loaded with major and trace minerals. However, eating a “plants only” diet has its drawbacks.

* Plant-based sources tend to be low in saturated fat, a component of the brain and a macronutrient vital for human health.

* Plants contain both soluble and insoluble fiber, but fiber is not actually digested. Too much of it can cause cramping, bloating, and other abdominal discomforts including constipation. Without sufficient amounts of water to help move the bulk through the system, intestinal blockage can lead to malabsorption and toxic accumulation.

* Many grains and wheat in particular contain insoluble fiber which can add to intestinal discomfort. Our Paleo Dietary Guidelines recommend not eating wheat or other industrialized grains.

* Humans have a much shorter digestive structure than herbivores and don’t have specialized organs to digest cellulose, the main fiber in plants.

Meat contributes greatly to our overall health and contains many nutrients that cannot be obtained in any amount from plants.

* Creatine creates energy reserves in muscle and brain tissue.

* Carnosine is an antioxidant that protects against degeneration.

* DHA and EPA (the active forms of omega-3) convert ALA (plant omega 3) to an active form.

* Vitamin B12 helps make DNA, prevents certain types of anemia, and contributes to the health of nerve cells.

* The myth of saturated fat being bad for health has been debunked. Studies have shown that saturated fat has a greater effect on raising the good cholesterol than it does on the bad (1). There is no conclusive evidence that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of coronary heart disease or cardiovascular disease.

* Meat is a complete protein source with a higher biological value.

* Meat is a good source of the difficult to get vitamin D, contains vitamins B1, B2, B6, and the minerals zinc, selenium, and iron.

* Humans are omnivores and thrive best on animal and plant sources combined.

Meat and dairy are bad for the environment

Paleo principles do not condone eating factory farmed cattle or milk cows, industrial poultry, or other animals who do not graze freely. Grass fed animals graze on untreated fields and eat weeds, grasses, shrubs, insects, and grubs which eliminates bowel distress and the accompanying methane gas emissions caused by a grain diet.

* The pervasive use of chemical pesticides in industrial agriculture is poisoning our food and the planet. Most are neurotoxins and endocrine disruptors that destroy the nervous systems of insects or cause them to be unable to reproduce. All the same effects are passed on to humans when we eat these plants, and this is reason enough to be wary of a “plants only” diet.

* Vegan proponents point to grain production for cattle feed as the cause of deforestation, habitat loss and species extinction, but industrial agriculture involves huge mono-cultures like wheat, corn and soy. Virtually all their agricultural systems depend on crude oil, including planting, harvesting, processing, packaging, and transportation. The importance of eating locally produced meat and locally grown vegetables and fruits, when available, is huge.

* Growing crops of corn, wheat or soy (which are currently all genetically modified unless organic) where there would normally be grass destroys animals’ natural feeding grounds.

* Modern industrial agriculture conglomerates destroy the delicate ecosystems surrounding them including topsoil, streams and rivers that are home to worms, frogs, turtles, crustaceans, aquatic vertebrae, beavers, and the birds and animals who feed on them They devastate the earth instead of feeding it.

In the big picture, following our ancestors’ footsteps makes sense. We haven’t evolved to eat only plants or only meat. Hunting and growing your own food is the best option, but not everyone has that luxury.

We’ve long ago changed the natural order of things and we cannot go back. If you were on the fence about eating meat, take hope in the fact that change takes place slowly and restoring the planet is not unthinkable. Complete health for the earth and all its inhabitants means humans must include foods from all natural categories like grass fed animals, wild game, and foods naturally processed by smoke, fermentation, or curing. Exclude industrially processed food of any kind.

[Beetlegeuse]

The Vegetarian Myth

The vegetarian myth tells us that not eating meat leads to a sustainable diet. But eating plants exclusively will not solve the planet’s problems.

By Lierre Keith

I was a vegan for almost 20 years.

I know the reasons that compelled me to embrace an extreme diet, and they are honorable — even noble. Reasons such as justice, compassion, and a desperate, all-encompassing longing to set the world right. To save the planet — the last trees bearing witness to ages and the scraps of wilderness still nurturing fading species, silent in their fur and feathers. To protect the vulnerable, the voiceless. To feed the hungry. At the very least, to refrain from participating in the horror of factory farming.

These political passions are born of a hunger so deep it touches on the spiritual. They were for me, and they still are. I want my life — my body — to be a place where the Earth is cherished, not devoured; where the sadist is granted no quarter; where the violence stops. And I want eating — the first nurturance — to be an act that sustains rather than kills. This is an effort to honor our deepest longings for a just world. And I now believe those longings — for compassion, for sustainability, for an equitable distribution of resources — are not served by the practice of vegetarianism. Believing in this vegetarian myth has led us astray.

Factory Farming is Not the Only Way

The vegetarian Pied Pipers have the best of intentions. I’ll state right now that everything they say about factory farming is true: It is cruel, wasteful, and destructive. But their first mistake is in assuming factory farming — a practice that is barely 50 years old — is the only way to raise animals. In my experience, their calculations on energy used, calories consumed, and humans unfed are all based on the notion that animals eat grain. You can feed grain to animals, but it is not the diet for which they were designed. For most of human history, browsers and grazers haven’t been in competition with humans. They ate what we couldn’t eat (cellulose) and turned it into what we could (protein and fat). But our industrial culture stuffs grain into as many animals as it can. Grain will dramatically increase the growth rate of beef cattle and the milk production of dairy cows. It will also kill them. The delicate bacterial balance of a cow’s rumen may become acidic and turn septic. Chickens get fatty liver disease if fed corn exclusively. Sheep and goats, which are also ruminants like cattle, shouldn’t touch the stuff either.

Not only that, but large portions of the world are utterly unsuited for growing large grain crops. And not just mountaintops in far distant Nepal, but close by in, say, New England. Cows are what grow here. So are deer, in their forest-destroying abundance. The logic of the land tells us to eat the animals that can eat the tough cellulose that survives here.

I think that this misunderstanding about animals and grain is born of an ignorance that runs the length and breadth of the vegetarian myth, through the nature of agriculture and ending in the nature of life. Most of us are now urban industrialists, and many of us don’t know the origins of our food. This includes many vegetarians, despite their claims to the truth. It included me, too, for 20 years. Anyone who ate meat was in denial; only I had faced the facts. Most people who consume factory-farmed meat have never asked what died and how. But frankly, neither have most vegetarians.

Considering Entire Ecosystems

Life isn’t possible without death, and no matter what you eat, something has to die to feed you. The truth is that agriculture is the most destructive thing humans have done to the planet, and more of the same won’t save us. Today’s industrial agriculture requires the wholesale destruction of entire ecosystems.

I want a full accounting, an accounting that goes way beyond what’s dead on your plate. I’m asking about everything that died in the process, everything that was killed to get that food onto your plate. That’s the more radical question, and it’s the only question that will produce the truth. How many rivers were dammed and drained? How many prairies plowed and forests pulled down? How much topsoil turned to dust? I want to know about all the species. Not just the individuals, but the entire species — the chinook, the bison, the grasshopper sparrows, and the gray wolves. And I want more than just the number of dead and gone. I want them back.

Despite what we’ve been told, and despite the earnestness of the tellers, eating soybeans isn’t going to bring these plants and animals back. Ninety-eight percent of the American prairie is gone, turned into a monocrop of annual grains. Plow cropping in Canada has destroyed 99 percent of the land’s original humus. When the rain forest falls to beef, progressives are outraged and ready to boycott. But our attachment to the vegetarian myth leaves us uneasy, silent, and ultimately immobilized when the culprit is wheat and the victim is the prairie.

The vast majority of people in the United States don’t grow food, let alone hunt and gather it. We have no way to judge how much death is embodied in a serving of salad, a bowl of fruit, or a plate of beef. We live in urban environments — in the last whisper of forests — thousands of miles removed from the devastated rivers, prairies, wetlands, and the millions of creatures who died for our dinners. Many inhabitants of urban industrial cultures have no point of contact with grain, chickens, cows, or — for that matter — with topsoil. We have no idea what nourishes plants, animals, or soil, which means we have no idea what we ourselves are eating.

Hard Questions About Agriculture

What’s looming in the shadows of our ignorance and denial is a critique of civilization itself. The starting point may be what we eat, but the end is an entire way of life, a global arrangement of power, and with no small measure of personal attachment to it. I remember the day in fourth grade when Miss Fox wrote two words on the blackboard: civilization and agriculture. I remember because of the hush in her voice, the gravitas of her words, the explanation that was almost oratory. And I understood. Everything that was good in human culture flowed from this point — all ease, grace, and justice. Religion, science, medicine, and art were born, and the endless struggle against starvation, disease and violence could be won, all because humans had figured out how to grow their own food.

I believe that agriculture has created a net loss for human rights and culture: slavery, imperialism, militarism, class divisions, chronic hunger, and disease. “The real problem, then, is not to explain why some people were slow to adopt agriculture, but why anybody took it up at all, when it is so obviously beastly,” writes biologist and author Colin Tudge. Agriculture has also been devastating to the other creatures with whom we share the Earth, and, ultimately, to the life support systems of the planet itself. What is at stake is everything. If we want a sustainable world, we have to be willing to examine the power relations behind the foundational myth of our culture. Anything less and we will fail.

Questioning at that level is difficult for most people. In this case, the emotional struggle inherent in resisting any hegemony is compounded by our dependence on civilization, and by our individual helplessness to stop it. Most of us would have no chance of survival if the industrial infrastructure collapsed tomorrow. And our consciousness is equally impeded by our powerlessness.

I don’t have a “10 Simple Things …” list for you because, frankly, there aren’t 10 simple things that will save the Earth. There is no personal solution. There is an interlocking web of hierarchical arrangements — vast systems of power that have to be confronted and dismantled. We can disagree about how best to do that, but do it we must if life on Earth is to have any chance of surviving.

Mutual Indebtedness

I have stopped fighting the basic algebra of embodiment: For something to live, something else has to die. In that acceptance, with all its suffering and sorrow, is the ability to choose a different way — a better way.

Consider the cow, a prey animal that has evolved to do one thing exquisitely: take cellulose — ubiquitous grass — and turn it into mass and motion. Like all members of a healthy biotic community, the cow produces food for someone else. Her manure feeds soil, plants, and insects. The mechanical action of her hooves and her teeth helps the grasslands stay diverse. Her digestive processes free up nutrients — and not just for her, but for the whole community. Her body will become a meal for predators, scavengers, and degraders of all sizes. Life is ultimately a cooperative process, unitary in its goal: more life.

The grazers need their grass, but the grass also needs the animals. It needs the manure, with its nitrogen, minerals, and bacteria. It needs the mechanical check of grazing activity, and it needs the resources stored in animal bodies and freed up by degraders after animals die. The grass and the grazers need each other as much as predators need prey. These are not one-way relationships. They are not arrangements of dominance and subordination.

In his book Long Life, Honey in the Heart, Martin Prechtel writes of the Mayan people and their concept of kas-limaal, which translates roughly as “mutual indebtedness, mutual insparkedness.” Pretchel writes that “the knowledge that every animal, plant, person, wind, and season is indebted to the fruit of everything else is an adult knowledge.”

This is a concept we need, especially those of us who are impassioned by injustice. The only way out of the vegetarian myth is through the pursuit of kas-limaal, of adult knowledge. If we choose to live in tune with nature, we won’t be exploiting each other by eating. Instead, we will only be taking turns.

#30#

If you'd like more comprehensive information, pick up a copy of Lierre Keith's The Vegetarian Myth: Food, Justice, and Sustainability. Larrie goes into a great more detail of all aspects, from health to environmental issues. It you're a cheap bastard, you can find digital copies of her book at the usual torrent sites.