Golden globes goes vegan

[balance]

I’m so tired of all this vegan, meatless, impossible crap. The media has been pushing this so hard over the last year. It very much reminds me of the “fat free!” craze back in the early nineties, when every other item in the market was labeled as such. We all know how that works out long term.

If people want to be vegan then have at it. I’m all for people doing their own thing. I just find all of the recent push interesting. Best I can figure is that people behind the curtains have big money invested in this meatless bs.

Hollywood and the media have always been tools for agendas and what should be considered normal and acceptable. Hopefully most people make nutrition decisions based upon things other than what the media says.

If you don’t think young people are buying into this you don’t have to look very far to confirm it. I have seen several threads where guys (likely young I generalize) post up their diet full of beans and powders to get jacked. I talk to guys at the gym and often get very similar responses about they drink these super food protein shakes smh.

Sorry for the rant.


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[Proximal]

My wife told me about this, this morning. Couldn’t agree with you more!

[Livinlean]

I hear you.

There's a lot of money being made in the vegan market. Im in the food business and I have friends who invested and founded vegan food companies and based off what I've seen/heard, it makes sense why there's a massive push. The more money being made, the more being spent on marketing no matter which way you spin it.

I mean besides ethical reasons, what are the reasons for following a vegan diet? Performance? Health? Longevity? Sure there are some studies/journals supporting the use of a vegan diet for these but there's as many if not more against it. The same way you hear eggs being discussed as healthy vs unhealthy. And at the end of the day we come back to the same solution, a balanced diet focusing on quality of ingredients reigns supreme.

[IronLiver]

I mean besides ethical reasons, what are the reasons for following a vegan diet? Performance? Health? Longevity?

It's the perfect diet if you want to keep a population dumbed down, sick, lethargic and depressed. They will be forced to consume food all the time because the vegan diet is devoid of nutrients. Supplement companies will be happy to provide B12 and other artificial vitamins that you can't get on the vegan diet. Once the depression kicks in because you can't get pregnant on a vegan diet, the pharmaceutical companies will be happy to help you out.

[Windex]

It's the perfect diet if you want to keep a population dumbed down, sick, lethargic and depressed. They will be forced to consume food all the time because the vegan diet is devoid of nutrients. Supplement companies will be happy to provide B12 and other artificial vitamins that you can't get on the vegan diet. Once the depression kicks in because you can't get pregnant on a vegan diet, the pharmaceutical companies will be happy to help you out.

Not agreeing or disagreeing with your thoughts but the B12 deficiency among vegetarians/vegans is a misconception. I've seen just as many carnivore people or bodybuilding meat eaters with B12 deficiency. Boneless skinless chicken breast and 96 lean ground beef and Ground turkey breast have very little B12. Compounded with the low quality of meat for sale adds on.

Most people are not eating liver or organ meats which are rich in the B12

[IronLiver]

Not agreeing or disagreeing with your thoughts but the B12 deficiency among vegetarians/vegans is a misconception. I've seen just as many carnivore people or bodybuilding meat eaters with B12 deficiency. Boneless skinless chicken breast and 96 lean ground beef and Ground turkey breast have very little B12. Compounded with the low quality of meat for sale adds on.

Most people are not eating liver or organ meats which are rich in the B12

That's why vegans have such great memories and are always in a good mood... The recommended amount of B12 is much lower then you should be getting. The fact that most people cook all meats and eggs, which destroys most of the water-soluble vitamins is also very bad. People should be eating more raw beef liver, especially fermented beef liver and you will feel amazing, happy and your memory will instantly improve.

[Beetlegeuse]

Veganism isn't one whit healthier for you or the planet. Farming is actually worse for the environment than livestock ranching is. Veganism is just the more strident version of vegetarianism, and both are nothing more than virtue-signaling, an act of contrition performed by the brain-dead SJWs.

I don't believe in eating fruits and vegetables because they're poor helpless creatures that have no means of defense. A steer can gore you or trample you. A chicken can peck your eyes out. A rabbit at least can run away in its own defense.

But not the poor tomato. It has no option but to hang on that vine, can't even seek shade in the heat of the day, waiting for that cold, heartless, unfeeling human to come by, judge it ripe for the picking, and pluck i mercilessly from the vine.


And I don't give a flying Philadelphia fuck what anybody says, beef tastes better than brussle sprouts or tofu.

[Obs]

Gosh....
I sympathize with them.
I ate a patato a few times.

[Obs]

Veganism isn't one whit healthier for you or the planet. Farming is actually worse for the environment than livestock ranching is. Veganism is just the more strident version of vegetarianism, and both are nothing more than virtue-signaling, an act of contrition performed by the brain-dead SJWs.

I don't believe in eating fruits and vegetables because they're poor helpless creatures that have no means of defense. A steer can gore you or trample you. A chicken can peck your eyes out. A rabbit at least can run away in its own defense.

But not the poor tomato. It has no option but to hang on that vine, can't even seek shade in the heat of the day, waiting for that cold, heartless, unfeeling human to come by, judge it ripe for the picking, and pluck i mercilessly from the vine.


And I don't give a flying Philadelphia fuck what anybody says, beef tastes better than brussle sprouts or tofu.

Brussel sprouts, broccoli, and cabbage fuck my digestive system up for days.
I like them all so that figures.

Wheat fucks me up as well but mainly pasta.

There is no way that can be good for a person.
When I send 2000 cubic ft of air out my ass in one day something must be poison.

[Proximal]

Don’t get me started on cauliflower or beets!

[Beetlegeuse]

... I ate a patato a few times.

Potatoes are allowed on my diet because the potato blight killed a million Irishmen. Them 'taters is dangerous bastards!

[Obs]

Potatoes are allowed on my diet because the potato blight killed a million Irishmen. Them 'taters is dangerous bastards!

Kel survived the potato famine but was left disfigured with veins all over.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

Potatoes are allowed on my diet because the potato blight killed a million Irishmen.

If you're trying to appeal to my Irishness you're failing.

[diesel101]

I'm just so disturbed by the killing of helpless animals ��

[Livinlean]

I'm just so disturbed by the killing of helpless animals ��

I don't know if you're joking here or not but to me, this is really the only reason to go vegan. Empathy, morals or whatever you want to call it. But doing it for health or performance (laughable) is just out of the question.

[KINGKONG]

I adore meat..couldn’t see life without it..I’ve never seen a successful open class bodybuilder who’s vegan..wonder why?lol
Meat makes you grow..I respect others opinions..sick of media dropping to their knees for everyone though..grow a pair is what my grandpa used to say as he gutted a deer..
Now men are more feminine then ever and media bows to any special interest there is..
“Hurry, get the meat off those plates”we got one vegan in 300 ppl in the audience”.
Settle down, it’s all about personal choices..you have yours and I have mine..no use trying to convert on or other..maybe relax on the couch with some pork rinds and some beef jerky..drink a nice glass of milk..
If my kid(non existent) wanted to be a vegan, more power to him..more meat for me

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[Obs]

I don't know if you're joking here or not but to me, this is really the only reason to go vegan. Empathy, morals or whatever you want to call it. But doing it for health or performance (laughable) is just out of the question.

Diesel kills innocent animals every chance he gets and eats them

[diesel101]

I don't know if you're joking here or not but to me, this is really the only reason to go vegan. Empathy, morals or whatever you want to call it. But doing it for health or performance (laughable) is just out of the question.

Yep just a joke, I've killed more wildlife than vehicle bumpers have.

[Obs]

Yep just a joke, I've killed more wildlife than vehicle bumpers have.

Challenge accepted!

[Proximal]

Just watched the GGs. So what is SO important except fires in Australia , that EVERYONE keeps mentioning?

[Obs]

Just watched the GG. So what is SO important accept fires about Australia, that EVERYONE keeps mentioning?

All the animals are lining up on the beaches because they have nowhere to go and its making sad facebook pics.

[Proximal]

All the animals are lining up on the beaches because they have nowhere to go and its making sad facebook pics.

Sad animals?!? OMG : (. Can’t Kangaroos swim? I thought I read that someplace? They can put the Koalas in their little pockets - all good, right?

[Obs]

Sad animals?!? OMG : (. Can’t Kangaroos swim? I thought I read that someplace? They can put the Koalas in their little pockets - all good, right?

The difference is in the US wildfires they get cooked or move to different terrain. But now people see what happens when they find refuge from a fire because of the directions this one burnt.

So now its an international sensation because of social media. Not downplaying any wildfire but thats what happened.

[Proximal]

Thought I’d go party in Hollywood, but think I’ll turn in and do something truly productive & meaningful at school tomorrow.

Sorry Leonardo & Brad. You can both revel in the fact that your private jets led to the climate change that is devastating Australia.

[Beetlegeuse]

Earth's climate has been changing for all 4.35 billion years of earth's existence and man is responsible for exactly sweet fuck-all of it.

And Australia, by the by, has the world's only pyromaniac birds.



It's the only animal besides man that has demonstrated the ability to use fire constructively.

[tarmyg]

Ecologically raising livestock is not sustainable, with the assumption that everyone in the world would want to consume meat in the same way as we do. Not really complicated math to figure out that if everyone, just in the USA, started eating only meat tomorrow, there would not be enough landmass within the country to support that and that is just one of the issues.

As far as people pushing it, I have noticed an increase in veganism (80% of people here in India are vegetarians or vegans) and I think Livinlean has a great point and from what I can tell, an educated one at that.

[tarmyg]

The difference is in the US wildfires they get cooked or move to different terrain. But now people see what happens when they find refuge from a fire because of the directions this one burnt.

So now its an international sensation because of social media. Not downplaying any wildfire but thats what happened.

That social media have been able to showcase this to a much higher degree seems undeniable. That said, they have lost over 500 million animals thus far, half of the Koala population is gone and the normal start of fire season was yesterday. This will get worse before it gets better and it seems no one have any ideas what, if anything, can be done to make this not happen on this scale again.

[Proximal]

Bottom line for me is that I watched the GGs for mild entertainment (and because my wife watched football on Saturday night).

I get tired of preachy, holier than thou actors & Hollywood.

[lovbyts]

I have been on hiatus for a while and came back today just to look up some information about Vegans and body building due to the Vegan push lately. I saw some articles and pictures of supposedly Vegan body builders. I find it hard to believe even with supplements IMO

[tarmyg]

I have been on hiatus for a while and came back today just to look up some information about Vegans and body building due to the Vegan push lately. I saw some articles and pictures of supposedly Vegan body builders. I find it hard to believe even with supplements IMO

Stick around. Unless your heading out to Thailand again

[Beetlegeuse]

Ecologically raising livestock is not sustainable, with the assumption that everyone in the world would want to consume meat in the same way as we do. Not really complicated math to figure out that if everyone, just in the USA, started eating only meat tomorrow, there would not be enough landmass within the country to support that and that is just one of the issues....

It's agriculture that isn't sustainable, not the ranching of livestock.

Agriculture is based on annual monocrops. A tilled field is a virtual wasteland because the farmer uses herbicides and pesticides to kill (nearly) every damn thing in the field except his crop, including the bacteria. The very turning of the earth causes the loss of topsoil and the plants themselves leech minerals and nutrients from the earth. So not only do you have to artificially replenish the soil, it takes considerable energy in the form of fossil fuels every growing season to plant and to harvest the crop.

Before 1950, agriculture ran on sunshine. Since then it has run on the Haber-Bosh process nitrogen fertilizer, and the Haber-Bosch process runs on fossil fuels. World-wide fertilizer use increased by >600% between 1961 and 1996 and between 1963 and 1997, world crop production doubled. There already would have been widespread famine without the Haber-Bosch process to support the planet's 7.8 billion people. It's as much as edible energy.

From Daniel Hillel's Out of the Earth: Civilization and the Life of the Soil:

[B]y its very nature, [agriculture] is an intrusion and hence a disruption of the environment as it replaces a natural ecosystem with an artificial one ... The moment a farmer delineates a tract of land ... he is in effect declaring war on the pre-existing environmental order. Wishing to grow a particular crop ... the farmer must now treat all the native species as noxious weeds or pests, to be eradicated by all possible means. However, in an open environment the wild species continue to reinstate their stolen domain, so the farmer’s war is never finally won.

... and this ...

In the history of civilization ... the plowshare has been far more destructive than the sword.

And from Richard Manning's Against the Grain, How Agriculture Has Hijacked Civilization:

Farming is the process of ripping that niche open again and again. It is an annual artificial catastrophe, and it requires the equivalent of three or four tons of TNT per acre for a modern American farm. Iowa’s fields require the energy of 4,000 Nagasaki bombs every year.

After clean water, the single resource that is second most limiting to the scale of human occupancy of the planet is phosphorus. We have to replace the phosphorus that agriculture removes from the earth. And what is the predominant source of agricultural phosphorus?

Ground bone meal of land animals, which comes primarily from abattoirs and slaughterhouses.

A pasture is a generally hospitable environment and all are welcome that pose no threat or competition to the livestock. Cows, sheep, and goats shit fertilizer and the action of their hooves serves to stabilize the topsoil. The traditional meat-producing livestock all leave the pasture a better place than they found it. Which is why grazing pasture is indispensable to any economically sensible crop rotation plan.

MMGW is a myth but even if it weren't the problem with cow farts is that termites produce even more methane than cows. So there's not much point fretting over cow gas until you've dealt with the termite problem.

The most favorable comparison I've seen of organic practices concluded it's 20% less productive than conventional farming. All the others were substantially less favorable than that so if you're concerned about sustaining our continuing population explosion, you need to ban organic farming, not cattle ranching.

[balance]

Borden’s dairy one of America’s oldest dairy companies filed for bankruptcy today. This is the second extremely large US dairy company to file bankruptcy in the last two months.

Just how nutritious are those nut and veg milks lol.


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[tarmyg]

It's agriculture that isn't sustainable, not the ranching of livestock.

Agriculture is based on annual monocrops. A tilled field is a virtual wasteland because the farmer uses herbicides and pesticides to kill (nearly) every damn thing in the field except his crop, including the bacteria. The very turning of the earth causes the loss of topsoil and the plants themselves leech minerals and nutrients from the earth. So not only do you have to artificially replenish the soil, it takes considerable energy in the form of fossil fuels every growing season to plant and to harvest the crop.

Before 1950, agriculture ran on sunshine. Since then it has run on the Haber-Bosh process nitrogen fertilizer, and the Haber-Bosch process runs on fossil fuels. World-wide fertilizer use increased by >600% between 1961 and 1996 and between 1963 and 1997, world crop production doubled. There already would have been widespread famine without the Haber-Bosch process to support the planet's 7.8 billion people. It's as much as edible energy.

From Daniel Hillel's Out of the Earth: Civilization and the Life of the Soil:


... and this ...



And from Richard Manning's Against the Grain, How Agriculture Has Hijacked Civilization:


After clean water, the single resource that is second most limiting to the scale of human occupancy of the planet is phosphorus. We have to replace the phosphorus that agriculture removes from the earth. And what is the predominant source of agricultural phosphorus?

Ground bone meal of land animals, which comes primarily from abattoirs and slaughterhouses.

A pasture is a generally hospitable environment and all are welcome that pose no threat or competition to the livestock. Cows, sheep, and goats shit fertilizer and the action of their hooves serves to stabilize the topsoil. The traditional meat-producing livestock all leave the pasture a better place than they found it. Which is why grazing pasture is indispensable to any economically sensible crop rotation plan.

MMGW is a myth but even if it weren't the problem with cow farts is that termites produce even more methane than cows. So there's not much point fretting over cow gas until you've dealt with the termite problem.

The most favorable comparison I've seen of organic practices concluded it's 20% less productive than conventional farming. All the others were substantially less favorable than that so if you're concerned about sustaining our continuing population explosion, you need to ban organic farming, not cattle ranching.

I appreciate the detailed response. A lot to unpack there. I agree that monoculture is a big problem, and I think that when we talk about sustainable agriculture, we would probably need to narrow that down a bit as it encompasses a rather large area. The things I am most familiar with is helping farmers coping with climate change as temperature change which is causing crops to grow differently, impacting wild pollinators and reducing the use of pesticide. Those three areas I have a decent grasp on only because it's part of what my wife works on. Educating farmers is another one.

As a side note I have this fun tidbit. As pesticide usage is pretty much off the chart here in India (You can still get DDT in many stores, especially in the northeast part of the country) my wife did a survey amongs a large portion of farmers here. One part of the survey was to seperate pollinators from, what we usually call pests (more accuratley, insects out of sync with their natural environmenmt). 98% of the farmers marked Bees as a pest that should be exterminated by pesticde. The climb to try and fix this issue is not a small one but I do live with someone who is at least trying and she is making some pretty remarkable strides.

This is something we will need to figure out as food security is a highly important issue that can go from Ok to disaster in a very short period of time.

[lovbyts]

Stick around. Unless your heading out to Thailand again

Havent been to Thailand in a while but made 4 or 5 trips to Philippines last year. I actually have a house in the Philippines now.

[Beetlegeuse]

Ecologically raising livestock is not sustainable, with the assumption that everyone in the world would want to consume meat in the same way as we do. Not really complicated math to figure out that if everyone, just in the USA, started eating only meat tomorrow, there would not be enough landmass within the country to support that and that is just one of the issues....

I did the math. Assuming 8 billion people on earth, all consuming the average American's 62.7 lbs of beef per annum (2017 figure), further assuming 18-month-old steers weighing an average of 1150 lbs each and producing an average of 569 pounds of beef, you'd need to keep a herd of 1.3 billion beeves. Figure five grazing acres per steer comes to 10,156,250 square miles. Earth's land mass is 57,308,738 square miles.

Sounds completely do-able to me. In fact the 2018 world cow population estimate was 1.002 billion, only 23% more than my "Beef For Everyone!" estimate. But I figured 100% grass-fed and there's obviously a lot of grain supplementing going on. And quite a few of the 1 billion are going to other uses than human consumption.

The Great Plains of North America alone are 1.1 million square miles, 1/10th of the total needed, but North America is only 1/13th of the planet's total population. Except cattle also are raised in all 50 states.

It might also interest you to know that India has more cattle than any other country on earth, ~305 million, 30% of the total kept on the planet. It's all those damn Brahma cattle that are the wasteoids because no one is eating them (except down around Goa).

You're right, the math isn't complicated but your conclusion is wrong. Ranching livestock is sustainable. Either that or those 1.002 billion cattle are an illusion. And as I already noted, agriculture would be difficult to sustain without the grazing of livestock.

[Obs]

I did the math. Assuming 8 billion people on earth, all consuming the average American's 62.7 lbs of beef per annum (2017 figure), further assuming 18-month-old steers weighing an average of 1150 lbs each and producing an average of 569 pounds of beef, you'd need to keep a herd of 1.3 billion beeves. Figure five grazing acres per steer comes to 10,156,250 square miles. Earth's land mass is 57,308,738 square miles.

Sounds completely do-able to me. In fact the 2018 world cow population estimate was 1.002 billion, only 23% more than my "Beef For Everyone!" estimate. But I figured 100% grass-fed and there's obviously a lot of grain supplementing going on. And quite a few of the 1 billion are going to other uses than human consumption.

The Great Plains of North America alone are 1.1 million square miles, 1/10th of the total needed, but North America is only 1/13th of the planet's total population. Except cattle also are raised in all 50 states.

It might also interest you to know that India has more cattle than any other country on earth, ~305 million, 30% of the total kept on the planet. It's all those damn Brahma cattle that are the wasteoids because no one is eating them (except down around Goa).

You're right, the math isn't complicated but your conclusion is wrong. Ranching livestock is sustainable. Either that or those 1.002 billion cattle are an illusion. And as I already noted, agriculture would be difficult to sustain without the grazing of livestock.

As a former cattle trader I assure you all that grass fed is horse shit 100% of the time unless you raise and butcher the animal yourself. In which case be prepared for tough meat.
Anyone remember the lincoln cattle war and billly the kid?

An englishman brought angus lineage to the US which was dominated by a longhorn market. The fat laced angus converted at 1 lb of gain per 4.5 lbs of feed vs longhorn at 7 or more lbs of feed per lb of gain.
The meat was fat laced and tasted much better as well as performing better in a financial scenario.
Large cattle kings were set to be displaced from government beef contracts by an underbidder.

And John Tunstall was assassinated.

Why do you think grain is fed?
Its because it is lb for lb the most cost effective manner of producing great meat.

This is not 1950 and farmers have maximized the potential for their ground on a monetary basis via being schooled on ecology, hormones, production, yield, disaster prevention...

The single smartest motherfucker you will ever meet is a farmer. And they are not poor. They are multimillionaires and rule the fucking earth from rural America.

Capitalism is like a fire burning out the impurities in metal.

The "grass fed" fad that recently came out was put in place by the beef checkoff (every animal sold is federally mandated to pay into the beff checkoff, thats why sam elliott tells you "beef it's whats for dinner") to create a specialty market of retarded sheep who think it is somehow better tasting.

If I sit down a grass fed angus ribeye in front of you with a soybean, trenbolone , and estrogen juiced angus ribeye. You will choose the grain fed every damn time.

This is why the angus breed exists.

As far as sustainability you are all retarded on the subject until you have participated in modern farming. Read all the statistics you want.

Veganism is not natural nor sustainable.

[Obs]

Fuckin redneck...
Welder
Machinist
Computer programmer
Ecologist
Biggest part of the economy
Soil specialist
Mechanic
Engineer
With construction companies that build the planet and we use the farm as a goddamn tax write off.
No... We arent as smart as you faggot desk jockeys. You sell insurance that we dominate ffs!

God damn people are blind dumb mfers in urban and suburban areas.

[Obs]

We aint all gots the smarts like yall folks... Maybe you can learn us a lil'

Fuckin hypocrites that have no idea what makes the world turn.

If I placed our beliefs in the discussion you would curse it. Morality is your biggest enemy as you see it, even though thats the only thing giving you pussies 3 meals a day.
Theres a 10 year old on a 300 horse tractor cultivating a field that just wants to be like his daddy.
His daddy is the baddest motherfucker you could ever meet and is most of the military.

He is the only reason iran didnt kill 85 Americans of his lineage today. Rather they said "Lets act like we are badasses." So they blew up Iraquis.

You bitch ass men today best learn quick. My kind is fading away in the US because we have it so easy.
Other places there are people like me waiting for you to get soft enough. Like that fat laced grain fed steak.

[Beetlegeuse]

As a former cattle trader I assure you all that grass fed is horse shit 100% of the time unless you raise and butcher the animal yourself....

Not my point.

My point was that grass-fed is the most land-use intensive way to raise cattle. Five acres per beef is as bad as it gets.

[Obs]

Not my point.

My point was that grass-fed is the most land-use intensive way to raise cattle. Five acres per beef is as bad as it gets.

StTistics are laeving out hay ground and all statistics are based off farmer reporting which will paint them as a poor pussy needing subsidies.

Look at it this way... When a record flood comes... That night farmes park 10 million in equipment in their bottom field.

Pasture basing animals is age old.
I worked on enormous pature based dairies tha kiwis built not realizing that rye wont grow here like in NZ.
Fall to spring they were feeding grain like every other American farmer. The same way my great great grandfather did.

Maximizine food and profit potential has been perfected by farmers. Capitalism purified it.

Yes grass fed is the least cost effective way per acre as you say.
But the statistics are absolute horseshit.
Pasture basing (grass fed) is a part of the cycle of feedin any animal to maximize potential.

Grass fed is bullshit.
Pasture basing is bullshit.

If the planet stayed 72° year round it would be the way to go but for it burning up the soil.


Bottom line is all on the planet are a bitch of the farmer unless you produce your own food.

Veganism is not sustainable period with the human population rate or at the current time.

Eat 4 lbs of vegetables.
Did you gain a lb of mass?
Fuck no.
But a modern angus did.

Thats 1 lb of nutrient dense food to keep a man alive for a day.