Both of Trump's Secretaries of Defense Speak Out Against Trump

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Trump present Secretary of Defense Mark Esper obviously risks his job speaking out against Trump.

Yet he so strongly disagrees with Orange POTUS that he states:
"The option to use active-duty forces in a law enforcement role should only be used as a matter of last resort, and only in the most urgent and dire of situations. We are not in one of those situations now. I do not support invoking the Insurrection Act."

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/03/86892...o-quell-unrest

And Trumps former Secretary of Defense James Mattis harshly critizes Trump.

In Union There Is Strength

I have watched this week's unfolding events, angry and appalled. The words "Equal Justice Under Law" are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.
When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.
We must reject any thinking of our cities as a "battlespace" that our uniformed military is called upon to "dominate." At home, we should use our military only when requested to do so, on very rare occasions, by state governors. Militarizing our response, as we witnessed in Washington, D.C., sets up a conflict—a false conflict— between the military and civilian society. It erodes the moral ground that ensures a trusted bond between men and women in uniform and the society they are sworn to protect, and of which they themselves are a part.
Keeping public order rests with civilian state and local leaders
who best understand their communities and are answerable to them.
James Madison wrote in Federalist 14 that "America united with a handful of troops, or without a single soldier, exhibits a more
forbidding posture to foreign ambition than America disunited, with a hundred thousand veterans ready for combat." We do not need to militarize our response to protests. We need to unite around a common purpose. And it starts by guaranteeing that all of us are equal before the law.
Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that "The Nazi slogan for destroying us...was 'Divide and Conquer.' Our American answer is 'In Union there is Strength.'" We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis—confident that we are better than our politics.
Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.
We can come through this trying time stronger, and with a renewed sense of purpose and respect for one another. The pandemic has shown us that it is not only our troops who are willing to offer the ultimate sacrifice for the safety of the community. Americans in hospitals, grocery stores, post offices, and elsewhere have put their lives on the line in order to serve their fellow citizens and their country. We know that we are better than the abuse of executive authority that we witnessed in Lafayette Square. We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution. At the same time, we must remember Lincoln's "better angels," and listen to them, as we work to unite.
Only by adopting a new path—which means, in truth, returning to the original path of our founding ideals—will we again be a country admired and respected at home and abroad.
James Mattis

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/03/polit...ent/index.html

A true must read...

OR... As the Orange One would call it... Fake News.

Your choice of what you believe.

[C27H40O3]

Here is the actual article in The Atlantic magazine. It is really a great dose of reality from a former Trump insider, revealing just how morally and ethically corrupted this administration is.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...zation/612640/

James Mattis Denounces President Trump, Describes Him as a Threat to the Constitution

Finally, someone who has seen the inner workings of this manifestly dysfunctional Whitehouse shares a peek into the chaos going on at the very top of our government.

If you are more of a video lover, rather than a lover of the written word, here is a recap of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C18F3E-nz8c

[Cuz]

You left the introduction out.

n a move that possibly placed his job in peril, Defense Secretary Mark Esper publicly disagreed Wednesday with President Trump's threatened use of the 1807 Insurrection Act to quell widespread unrest over the death of George Floyd, a black man who died after a white Minneapolis police officer kneeled on his neck.

As i would expect from left wingers actually 4 officers killed the man not just the WHITE ONE lets get that straight first off

Lets move on the actual words Esper used ...The option to use active-duty forces in a law enforcement role should only be used as a matter of last resort, and only in the most urgent and dire of situations. We are not in one of those situations now," Esper told reporters at a Pentagon briefing. "I do not support invoking the Insurrection Act."

So just when is exactly the military justified? Burning cities isn’t enough, police officers dying from rioters and looters, innocent people beatin all over the US ...what is it 6 officers killed so far ??

Complete and utter horseshit!! Id be ashamed of myself.

And no disrespect Dog we obviously have different political views and thats totally fine. No harm done. Do i think the military needed involved day 1? You bet your ass, at least then we may could have saved some lives and businesses people rely on to live....senseless to me

[Wannabhuge14]

Here is the actual article in The Atlantic magazine. It is really a great dose of reality from a former Trump insider, revealing just how morally and ethically corrupted this administration is.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...zation/612640/

James Mattis Denounces President Trump, Describes Him as a Threat to the Constitution

Finally, someone who has seen the inner workings of this manifestly dysfunctional Whitehouse shares a peek into the chaos going on at the very top of our government.

If you are more of a video lover, rather than a lover of the written word, here is a recap of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C18F3E-nz8c

You really trust cnn?

[Test Monsterone]

You really trust cnn?

Well let’s take a look at the facts:


Trump said over 16,000 lies or misleading statements in 3 years according to fact checkers.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill...in-three%3famp


This is how the news channels stand:

“Each of the news networks that we routinely follow -- ABC, CBS, Fox, MSNBC and CNN -- has a scorecard that breaks down that network’s performance on the Truth-O-Meter. The scorecard tallies each statement we fact-check on that network and groups the rulings by percentage.

What does that mean?

Right now, you can look at the MSNBC file, which also includes NBC, and see how that network’s pundits and on-air talent stand. For instance, currently 45 percent of the claims we’ve checked from NBC and MSNBC pundits and on-air personalities have been rated Mostly False, False or Pants on Fire.

At Fox and Fox News Channel, that same number is now 58 percent. At CNN, it’s 22 percent.“

https://www.politifact.com/article/2...tfacts-networ/


Looks like Trump lies a lot and Fox News does too, much more than CNN. Let me guess, this is fake news too...

[C27H40O3]

You left the introduction out.

n a move that possibly placed his job in peril, Defense Secretary Mark Esper publicly disagreed Wednesday with President Trump's threatened use of the 1807 Insurrection Act to quell widespread unrest over the death of George Floyd, a black man who died after a white Minneapolis police officer kneeled on his neck.

As i would expect from left wingers actually 4 officers killed the man not just the WHITE ONE lets get that straight first off

Lets move on the actual words Esper used ...The option to use active-duty forces in a law enforcement role should only be used as a matter of last resort, and only in the most urgent and dire of situations. We are not in one of those situations now," Esper told reporters at a Pentagon briefing. "I do not support invoking the Insurrection Act."

So just when is exactly the military justified? Burning cities isn’t enough, police officers dying from rioters and looters, innocent people beatin all over the US ...what is it 6 officers killed so far ??

Complete and utter horseshit!! Id be ashamed of myself.

And no disrespect Dog we obviously have different political views and thats totally fine. No harm done. Do i think the military needed involved day 1? You bet your ass, at least then we may could have saved some lives and businesses people rely on to live....senseless to me

You cant use "saving lives and businesses" as an excuse to violate the constitution. Many things would save lives, but would be unconstitutional. In my city, in normal non-riot times. if they stopped everyone crossing the street and searched them for illegal guns, you could eliminate street shootings. but it would be illegal. If you positioned cops on every corner everywhere and made every single driver blow into a brethalyzer at each corner, you would eliminate DWI deaths, but it wouldnt be constitutional. You could save lives by saying that if you shoot someone, your whole family will be locked away for the rest of their lives. It would be unconstitutional, but it would save a few lives.

The point is that if its unconstitutional, thats it, it must be avoided. Near the end of slavery, it was admitted by many that even though slavery was probably unconstitutional, eliminating it would destroy the economy of the south. That was no valid excuse to continue it.

Public disorder is a local police matter. If a certain jurisdiction likes disorder, they will not pressure their elected officials to stop it. indeed here, it looks like my mayor likes and encourages it. Even my shitty governor is blaming the NYC cops for letting criminals and arsonists loot the city. He didnt blame the fire department for not stopping the fires, though. how convienent of him. He really sucks.

[C27H40O3]

You really trust cnn?

Of course, whats wrong with CNN? MSNBC and FOX are just propaganda channels. One government, the other left wing.

CNN is the only one thats fair in reporting. Some folks falsely claim that, since it highlights a lot of negative things about TRump, that it is not fair. Thats like saying news stations are not fair because they point out the excesses of wanna-be dictators and despots around the world.

Thats like trying to claim that the History Channel is unfair because it produces a lot of shows showing Hitler in a negative light? or communism in a negative light.

If you cover issues that are negative issues, and you cover them fairly, you are not being unfairly negative, you are being honest.

A show about Stalin and the purges he carried out against his government and country is negative, and at the same time factually correct.

Again, what is your concern regarding CNN? It is generally thought to be the only serious news outlet of the major players.

[Remington]

You really trust cnn?

Absolutely.
I'm assuming Fox is more your speed. Fox...where they go on and on about how Trump fired Mattis.
Just one of their many lies.

[C27H40O3]

Absolutely.
I'm assuming Fox is more your speed. Fox...where they go on and on about how Trump fired Mattis.
Just one of their many lies.

Fox has turned into state run media. Like Pravda was in the USSR. They just regurgitate the government propaganda fed to it by its puppetmasters in the administration. It has absolutely no credibility. Shep Smith left, and as the saying goes, then there were none.

Its viewer base is all Trump fanboys, without a single critical thinking brain in the whole lot. They are the ultimate sheep. Disrespected and played as fools every day. Their feeling after every news story, no matter how patronizing and insulting to their intelligence is "thank you sir, may I have another".

They need boogeymen to keep their low attention span viewers interested. Clintons, Obama, socialism, deep state, and whoever this week holds the position of some appointee trump used to shower with embarrassingly effusive praise but now changed his mind about and decided he hates the guy. Its really hysterical to watch. Its viewers are so blatantly being played for fools.

Those listed are the usual boogeymen the company uses to keep their loyal simpleton viewers engaged.

[Remington]

Well put.. Very well put.
So.. Why the disdain for CNN?
Is it just because they're main stream?

[C27H40O3]

Trump should have went on TV and encouraged the states to, or embarassed them into, stopping the violent riots they were experiencing. He should have pointed out what weak and impotent leaders those governors and mayors are for letting that happen.

But threatening to unilaterally send in the army to fight US citizens in american streets was wrong and stupid.

He would have had a better leg to stand on, precedent wise, if he got a federal court order ordering the governor or mayor to immediately stop the riots in his city or state. Then when they refused, he could send in state troops to enforce the court order, in the face of the refusal of the local authorities, in order to protect the civil rights of a few residents there. This is what happened with Wallace in ALabama in 1963. He refused to facilitate carrying out a federal court order over desegragation, so Kennedy federalized the Alabama National Guard, and had its general, along with a number of his guardsmen, confront the governor at the school to ensure that the order was carried out. They occupied the campus for weeks after to make sure there was no further problems.

If Trump got a court order and then sent in the State National Guard, to protect the civil rights of those residents who arent rioting, but are getting assaulted, including cops, he wouldnt be in such a flagrant violation of constitutional principles.

But of course he is not strategic, just impulsive, and that is why he is always stepping on his dick. Look at that farce of a march to the boarded up church the other day. Then stand there like a fuckin moron clutching a bible, but having nothing to say, and then posing for photos with his armed forces chiefs behind him. He looked so desperate and weak. They looked pissed off to have been sucked into the politics. it was so impulsive and ridiculous.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

You left the introduction out.

n a move that possibly placed his job in peril, Defense Secretary Mark Esper publicly disagreed Wednesday with President Trump's threatened use of the 1807 Insurrection Act to quell widespread unrest over the death of George Floyd, a black man who died after a white Minneapolis police officer kneeled on his neck.

As i would expect from left wingers actually 4 officers killed the man not just the WHITE ONE lets get that straight first off

Lets move on the actual words Esper used ...The option to use active-duty forces in a law enforcement role should only be used as a matter of last resort, and only in the most urgent and dire of situations. We are not in one of those situations now," Esper told reporters at a Pentagon briefing. "I do not support invoking the Insurrection Act."

So just when is exactly the military justified? Burning cities isn’t enough, police officers dying from rioters and looters, innocent people beatin all over the US ...what is it 6 officers killed so far ??

Complete and utter horseshit!! Id be ashamed of myself.

And no disrespect Dog we obviously have different political views and thats totally fine. No harm done. Do i think the military needed involved day 1? You bet your ass, at least then we may could have saved some lives and businesses people rely on to live....senseless to me

I fully respect your views and also your willingness to be so frank about them.

I don't think the military should've been involved since day 1.
Both the present Secretary of Defense and the former Secretary of Defense feel the same way.
I believe that the military isn't trained for such matters. Our police force is.

You think the milatry should've been involved since day 1.
Trump probably agrees with you.

It's America. People have different views and that is part of what keeps America great.

I don't like the rioting one bit. I think the rioters should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

I feel for the law enforcement. They put themselves in harms way to protect my rights everyday.

What I think complicates this matter is that many confuse the peaceful protestors with rioters.
They are not one and the same.
Fuck, the vast majority of the rioters have zero interest in BLM. (My opinion.) They are common thieves, thugs, and/or polictically or idealogically motivated assholes.

I don't think this matter has been handled well by most everyone.
I personally think that the police were too lax on the rioters. I personally think they were overly cautious because they were trying to not heighten the tension.
(If a policeman kills a rioter it may instill more rioting....)
My guess is that the higher ups told them to be extra cautious.

However, I will stand by my belief that Trump used force to break up a peaceful demonstration.
They weren't rioting.
Yes I know that a statement was put out there by the park police. https://www.nps.gov/subjects/uspp/6_...ef_monahan.htm
I know that the statement cites " At approximately 6:33 pm, violent protestors on H Street NW began throwing projectiles including bricks, frozen water bottles and caustic liquids. "

However I find it hard to believe that no proof has been shown to back up that statement.
Surely there was plenty of news crews there as well as cell phones.
I have seen plenty of video showing the brutality imposed on the protestors.
I have seen no video of the bricks, or frozen water bottles, or caustic liquids.

I am strongly opposed to the violent dispersals of peaceful protests.
And it is even more sickening to me that the violence was simply so Trump get get his picture taken in front of a church while he held a bible.
The church clergy even stated their displeasure with Trump.

If Trump wants to use the military then it is my understanding that he needs to invoke the 1807 Insurrection Act.

I know many of you view me as a liberal.
I am not affliated with any party.
I am pro-police. (I do recognize that there are bad eggs in the bunch.)
I am pro-gun. (I do think that background checks should be required.)
I am very pro-miltary. (More so for the soldiers then some of the higher ups.)

What I am not is pro-Trump.

And I am concerned for America because I know there are many people who simply vote along political party lines no matter who the canidate.
And I know that many of the religious and pro-gun will only vote Republican.
And I am fearful what Trump will do if given another four years.

[Cuz]

I fully respect your views and also your willingness to be so frank about them.

I don't think the military should've been involved since day 1.
Both the present Secretary of Defense and the former Secretary of Defense feel the same way.
I believe that the military isn't trained for such matters. Our police force is.

You think the milatry should've been involved since day 1.
Trump probably agrees with you.

It's America. People have different views and that is part of what keeps America great.

I don't like the rioting one bit. I think the rioters should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

I feel for the law enforcement. They put themselves in harms way to protect my rights everyday.

What I think complicates this matter is that many confuse the peaceful protestors with rioters.
They are not one and the same.
Fuck, the vast majority of the rioters have zero interest in BLM. (My opinion.) They are common thieves, thugs, and/or polictically or idealogically motivated assholes.

I don't think this matter has been handled well by most everyone.
I personally think that the police were too lax on the rioters. I personally think they were overly cautious because they were trying to not heighten the tension.
(If a policeman kills a rioter it may instill more rioting....)
My guess is that the higher ups told them to be extra cautious.

However, I will stand by my belief that Trump used force to break up a peaceful demonstration.
They weren't rioting.
Yes I know that a statement was put out there by the park police. https://www.nps.gov/subjects/uspp/6_...ef_monahan.htm
I know that the statement cites " At approximately 6:33 pm, violent protestors on H Street NW began throwing projectiles including bricks, frozen water bottles and caustic liquids. "

However I find it hard to believe that no proof has been shown to back up that statement.
Surely there was plenty of news crews there as well as cell phones.
I have seen plenty of video showing the brutality imposed on the protestors.
I have seen no video of the bricks, or frozen water bottles, or caustic liquids.

I am strongly opposed to the violent dispersals of peaceful protests.
And it is even more sickening to me that the violence was simply so Trump get get his picture taken in front of a church while he held a bible.
The church clergy even stated their displeasure with Trump.

If Trump wants to use the military then it is my understanding that he needs to invoke the 1807 Insurrection Act.

I know many of you view me as a liberal.
I am not affliated with any party.
I am pro-police. (I do recognize that there are bad eggs in the bunch.)
I am pro-gun. (I do think that background checks should be required.)
I am very pro-miltary. (More so for the soldiers then some of the higher ups.)

What I am not is pro-Trump.

And I am concerned for America because I know there are many people who simply vote along political party lines no matter who the canidate.
And I know that many of the religious and pro-gun will only vote Republican.
And I am fearful what Trump will do if given another four years.

Trump is by no means the best thing ever, i voted for him bc i dont like Hillary.

I will vote Trump again until the dems get some in there that is worth voting for. Joe Biden is not the answer im sorry if you think he is then by all means voice your opinion. Thats what we have , Trump or Biden. I dont even know who Bidens VP is?

The only dem i would have voted for against Trump was Jim Webb, and he dropped out. The democratic party cannot produce a good candidate in my eyes so unfortunately i have to vote for a Billionaire business man. And that’s what he is. You can not argue the fact the economy hit record highs and employment hit record lows pre march 2020. Racial tensions were just as high with Obama imho

Black lives matter of course, but so does everyone elses life. I support their first amendment rights to protest peacefully. But honestly its getting old. First its police brutality now its burning black owned businesses now its lets tear down war monuments yeah ok whats it gonna be next week?

And as far your views you listed i 100 percent back you there. I understand you dont like Trump and that’s perfectly fine.

And ill end with this, when a police officer stops you, do you yell and scream at him in anger wondering why he pulled you over or would you act like a normal considerate professional acting human being and not like a caged animal?

[The Deadlifting Dog]

And ill end with this, when a police officer stops you, do you yell and scream at him in anger wondering why he pulled you over or would you act like a normal considerate professional acting human being and not like a caged animal?

I am courteous and polite.
Last thing I need is a day in jail.

And I'll end with this... why do you need more guns? Have you seen your arms lately?

[Cuz]

I am courteous and polite.
Last thing I need is a day in jail.

And I'll end with this... why do you need more guns? Have you seen your arms lately?

Lmao brother , the men like me and you that earned our guns working our ass off In the gym all it does now is instill fear and intimidation ...it at least seems. People will shoot u real damn quick its almost like we have a target on our backs . Hell im paranoid man, lol. Oh well

[GearHeaded]

And I'll end with this... why do you need more guns? Have you seen your arms lately?

because you have the freedom and rights to

no different then owning more then one fork, or pan for cooking .. or. more then one car for you car guys. its simply a freedom of choice, why is that looked down upon when its a very highly respected part and put in the 2nd amendment.
nobody gives you shit how many spoons you have in your house to feed your fat face.. yet how many guns you have is an issue when in reality it was put into a constitution amendment that we can own all the guns we want . yet we are looked down on for exercising that right .. meanwhile you all fools are hoarding spoons and toilet paper, and thats not a constitutional right at all lol .
where is it in the constitution that you can put a spoon in your fat mouth and have toilet paper to wipe your fat ass ??
it cannot be found.
yet I have constitutional rights to carriy and buy as many guns as I want , its specifically written, but we gun owners get condemned..
whatever you fake frauds, keep shoving the spoon in your mouth and we'll keep putting bullets in our guns because we actually have a constitutional right to do so

DD you obviously don't belong to a local range club and target practice,, but owning 50+ guns just makes that shit a bit more fun.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Relax Gearheaded....

Maybe you didn't get the joke.

Cuz laughed.

I will spell it out for you....

Big arms (as in biceps/triceps) are often referred to as guns.
I was making a joke that with arms (guns) as big as his he doesn't need anymore.

Maybe if you get big arms one day someone might call yours guns.

(And yes, I realize you will say you were just using me as a springboard to make a point about the constitution. Next time make your point with insulting me with phrases like "fat face" and "you all fools" and calling me a "fake fraud".)

And another thing... "fake fraud" would imply "truth". Brush up on the English language.

[GearHeaded]

Relax Gearheaded....

Maybe you didn't get the joke.

my post was not personally meant at you at all .. again just used a post to spring board and make a point.


in regards to "the English" they are the fuckers that came over here to the US and thought they could take away our guns and tax the fuck out of us and take away our money and rights too.. they got punched in the face pretty hard not knowing who they really were dealing with in 1776

[GearHeaded]

we been strapped for 100s of years after the bitches came to take them away the first time..

look into it. the revolutionary war was about taxation and taking away our gun rights. the 3% stood up and punched these little bitches in the face.

owning as many guns as possible is an exercise of our rights that built this country

[Proximal]

I am courteous and polite.
Last thing I need is a day in jail.

And I'll end with this... why do you need more guns? Have you seen your arms lately?

It’s incredible how well the courteous and polite thing works isn’t it. I’ve had 2 run-in’s. One a deserved DUI, that my honesty and politeness remarkably showed that “I was about 1/2 beer short of being over the limit”, when actuality I probably downed a good 10 or 12.

Then a mistaken domestic violence visit by police (I dialed 911 by mistake when dialing 411 and got a touch rude when the 911 operator kept cutting into my subsequent calls). They left laughing instead of with me in hand-cuffs and bruises from batons.

If I see one more thing about a cop pushing a poor innocent protester that is shouting fuck you at them; I’m going to puke. JC, they have a tough job.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

They do have a tough job.
But we must also remember that they signed up for it.

Part of the reason I didn’t go the law enforcement route is that...
Police find themselves in difficult situations that sometimes require near instant decisions. A police officer can easily make a bad decision and end up in jail. I honestly fear imprisonment.

[Proximal]

They do have a tough job.
But we must also remember that they signed up for it.

Part of the reason I didn’t go the law enforcement route is that...
Police find themselves in difficult situations that sometimes require near instant decisions. A police officer can easily make a bad decision and end up in jail. I honestly fear imprisonment.

After 20 years, last year was the one and only time it came close to me having to physically push a kid away. Oh, it came SO close, but I kept giving the kid space, held my composure and he realized he was in error. Even the kids friends were amazed that I didn’t hit him as they said that for them it was a no-brainer. The nationality involved is very cliquish and support their own, but I earned a big bit of reputation for how I handled it with them.

[Beetlegeuse]

The SecDef is a hireling who gets paid to kill people and blow shit up. Outside of the military chain of command, their opinion means exactly sweet fuck-all.

[Cuz]

They do have a tough job.
But we must also remember that they signed up for it.

Part of the reason I didn’t go the law enforcement route is that...
Police find themselves in difficult situations that sometimes require near instant decisions. A police officer can easily make a bad decision and end up in jail. I honestly fear imprisonment.

Yeap instant decisions must be made and not just which channel on the tv you wanna watch im talkin life and death decisions
Really glad now that i didnt pursue the law enforcement career. One of the toughest jobs out there sometimes

[The Deadlifting Dog]

The SecDef is a hireling who gets paid to kill people and blow shit up. Outside of the military chain of command, their opinion means exactly sweet fuck-all.

The Secretary of Defense is 2nd in command of the entire military. The only higher power is the POTUS.

So his opinion on any matter of the military means more much than your opinion.

And in case you are having trouble following along... this thread has been discussing using the military to police our nation.

[C27H40O3]

You can not argue the fact the economy hit record highs and employment hit record lows pre march 2020. Racial tensions were just as high with Obama imho

The unemployment numbers are bullshit. Even trump admitted that when he was running for office. I have to admit it when he gives that rare bit of truth.




https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjo.../#106c2c7068b7

Obama’s 2009 Recovery Act Kicked Off Over 10 Years Of Economic Growth



Each of the last three years of Obama’s economy were stronger than Trump’s 2019 when adjusted for trade, inventory impacts and government spending.

Trump’s boasts about how many jobs he has added don’t include the fact that he has generated 6.5 million jobs under his Presidency vs. the 8.1 million, or 1.6 million fewer than Obama did during his last three years in office. In fact, Trump's best year of job growth (2018) doesn't even beat any of Obama's last three years.

Trump’s job growth is a continuation of Obama’s economy

The Bureau of Labor Statistics has data on the number of non-farm jobs in the economy going back to 1939. There have been two periods with 9 years of consecutive job growth; 1961 to 1969 and 1992 to 2000. As of December last year that record was broken with 10 years of consecutive job growth from 2010 to 2019.

Black lives matter of course, but so does everyone elses life. I support their first amendment rights to protest peacefully. But honestly its getting old. First its police brutality now its burning black owned businesses now its lets tear down war monuments yeah ok whats it gonna be next week?

And as far your views you listed i 100 percent back you there. I understand you dont like Trump and that’s perfectly fine.

And ill end with this, when a police officer stops you, do you yell and scream at him in anger wondering why he pulled you over or would you act like a normal considerate professional acting human being and not like a caged animal?

Agreed.

[Test Monsterone]

Obama got a shit economy from Bush, and left Orange Guy with a great economy. Republicans and Fox News were splitting hairs trying to attack Obama, resorting to attacks on his attire when nothing else could be said. Obama could have been saving children from a burning fire and Fox would be reporting about some Mexican that robbed a liquor store. The hypocrisy from right-wing media is absolutely astounding. I question the intelligence of those who cannot see what’s right in front of them.

[GearHeaded]

Obama got a shit economy from Bush, and left Orange Guy with a great economy. Republicans and Fox News were splitting hairs trying to attack Obama, resorting to attacks on his attire when nothing else could be said. Obama could have been saving children from a burning fire and Fox would be reporting about some Mexican that robbed a liquor store. The hypocrisy from right-wing media is absolutely astounding. I question the intelligence of those who cannot see what’s right in front of them.

you really think an entire macro economy is made or broke by a single man (ie , the president) ?
I really doubt it. don't think wither its bush, Obama or the orange guy dictating wither housing sales and prices in my rural area go up or down, wither my local businesses are hiring, and wither members are joining my gym, and how much cash is flowing though my bank account, etc.

just my opinion. but I think its BS that a president himself makes or breaks an economy. he doesn't have that much power. just gets blamed for it when its bad and takes credit for it when things are good , but has no actual control

[GearHeaded]

And yes, I realize you will say you were just using me as a springboard to make a point about the constitution. Next time make your point with insulting me with phrases like "fat face"

you assume too much.. my reference to "fat face" was NOT directed at YOU personally at all (are you self conscience and think you have a fat face or something ? ... heck I have no clue what you look like).. the reference was to the point itself, the point about the having lots of spoons (gluttony) and fatning your face and obesity is perfectly acceptable in society of Dems but somehow owning more then one gun is looked down upon. when the former isn't even spelled out as an amendment to the constitution but the latter is.
a liberal can have 100 spoons and be 50 pounds overweight and a drunk glutton and thats perfectly ok, but a conservative owning more then one gun thats a bad thing somehow (and again, the former is not spelled out as a constitutional right and the latter is).

anyhow, whatever , just wanted you to know my point was not directed at you as a personal attack at all , just a point. "fat face" was a reference to the point in general not to you personally

[GearHeaded]

Maybe if you get big arms one day someone might call yours guns.
.

your right .. my biceps always been a weak body part for me. have not been to the gym in months now and lost a lot of size and barely have a bicep vein left is all.

the triceps are still hanging on though

the right hand still is on stand by

calves are ok

traps not too shabby I suppose



but your 100% correct "I need more guns" ,, my biceps suck

[Staynattybruh]

you assume too much.. my reference to "fat face" was NOT directed at YOU personally at all (are you self conscience and think you have a fat face or something ? ... heck I have no clue what you look like).. the reference was to the point itself, the point about the having lots of spoons (gluttony) and fatning your face and obesity is perfectly acceptable in society of Dems but somehow owning more then one gun is looked down upon. when the former isn't even spelled out as an amendment to the constitution but the latter is.
a liberal can have 100 spoons and be 50 pounds overweight and a drunk glutton and thats perfectly ok, but a conservative owning more then one gun thats a bad thing somehow (and again, the former is not spelled out as a constitutional right and the latter is).

anyhow, whatever , just wanted you to know my point was not directed at you as a personal attack at all , just a point. "fat face" was a reference to the point in general not to you personally

That’s a false equivalency and a dishonest take on what dems think of obesity. For one, guns can kill other people. A person getting fat and unhealthy isn’t hurting you or anyone. Also, most dems don’t advocate of getting rid of guns, but to making it incredibly difficult to obtain them, which, you shouldn’t have a problem with if you’re an upstanding citizens.

Think about it this way, you think it’s gross and weird to be accepting of people getting fat and overweight, but myself (a veteran mind you) thinks it’s gross to fetishize guns that most conservatives do. Now don’t you think it would benefit both people to put some sort of restrictions on the sort of food that people are buying/ provide them with cheap alternatives (people in low income areas become overweight due to the low cost of unhealthy food) and that maybe we shouldn’t be giving weapons to people just because they say they want them.

[GearHeaded]

That’s a false equivalency and a dishonest take on what dems think of obesity. For one, guns can kill other people.

guarantee you , I can be pretty darn deadly with a spoon. highly doubt you'd want to be locked in a room with me and my spoon

on a side note. heart disease, diabetes, obesity, and all those things related to over consumption of "the spoon" kills more people every year then any conservative gun ownership ever has.
owning 50+ guns and taking your kids shooting for a good family quality time etc. does not kill anyone .. but the spoon and your gluttony kills millions every year.
yet the conservative is looked down upon cause he collects guns. when in reality he does not harm a soul ,, not even close to the damage a spoon can do.

[GearHeaded]

can a gun be misused in evil hands ,,, sure.

when you misspell a word when writing with the pen, do you blame the pen itself ? restrict pen sales? do you look down on it cause owning more then one pen is somehow a bad thing in and of itself?
no.. have all the pens you want . thats fine. some misspelled words are bound to happen in some cases, but don't need to restrict the pen itself just cause some people are going to misspell some words along the way

my observation..
the problem with most liberals is that they fear everything.. rather then just letting life take its course. sure some bad shit happens along the way. so what.. shit happens. I'd rather simply have the 'freedom' to walk across the street even if one day I got hit by a car so what, rather then have the restriction and getting arrested for 'jay walking'


pens do not misspell words and guns don't kill people..
but you better be careful of that scary spoon

[C27H40O3]

Looks like that fat smoked turkey leg they sell at Disneyworld.

[C27H40O3]

That’s a false equivalency and a dishonest take on what dems think of obesity. For one, guns can kill other people. A person getting fat and unhealthy isn’t hurting you or anyone. Also, most dems don’t advocate of getting rid of guns, but to making it incredibly difficult to obtain them, which, you shouldn’t have a problem with if you’re an upstanding citizens.

Would you be OK with making it incredibly difficult to obtain books, in violation of the first amendment, because you’re an upstanding citizen? Guns are no different. One is protected by the first amendment, the other is covered by the second.

[C27H40O3]

That’s a false equivalency and a dishonest take on what dems think of obesity. For one, guns can kill other people. A person getting fat and unhealthy isn’t hurting you or anyone. Also, most dems don’t advocate of getting rid of guns, but to making it incredibly difficult to obtain them, which, you shouldn’t have a problem with if you’re an upstanding citizens.

Think about it this way, you think it’s gross and weird to be accepting of people getting fat and overweight, but myself (a veteran mind you) thinks it’s gross to fetishize guns that most conservatives do. Now don’t you think it would benefit both people to put some sort of restrictions on the sort of food that people are buying/ provide them with cheap alternatives (people in low income areas become overweight due to the low cost of unhealthy food) and that maybe we shouldn’t be giving weapons to people just because they say they want them.

Guns have killed as many folks as books. Falling tree branches and lightning have spontaneously killed more folks than guns. I have plenty of guns and books in my house, as do most folks I know. I never heard of a gun just going off by itself and killing anyone. Books either. Tree branches have fallen and killed folks. Mud slides have spontaneously killed people. These things do kill folks by themselves. not guns.

People might use any tool to kill someone. Hammers havent spontaneously killed anyone that I can recall. But folks have used them to kill others. Lets make it incredibly difficult to buy a hammer.

[GearHeaded]

Looks like that fat smoked turkey leg they sell at Disneyworld.

LOL .. your right !



a cannibal would have some fine dining on my lower leg I'm sure

[C27H40O3]

can a gun be misused in evil hands ,,, sure.

when you misspell a word when writing with the pen, do you blame the pen itself ? restrict pen sales? do you look down on it cause owning more then one pen is somehow a bad thing in and of itself?
no.. have all the pens you want . thats fine. some misspelled words are bound to happen in some cases, but don't need to restrict the pen itself just cause some people are going to misspell some words along the way

my observation..
the problem with most liberals is that they fear everything.. rather then just letting life take its course. sure some bad shit happens along the way. so what.. shit happens. I'd rather simply have the 'freedom' to walk across the street even if one day I got hit by a car so what, rather then have the restriction and getting arrested for 'jay walking'


pens do not misspell words and guns don't kill people..
but you better be careful of that scary spoon

We dont ban pens just because folks sometimes use them to kill others.

Student Stabbed To Death With Pens And Pencils

Student Stabbed To Death With Pens And Pencils

A murderer is brought to justice after being found guilty of stabbing a student to death with writing pens. The twenty one year old admitted violently stabbing the girl in the throat and head 90 times


https://www.foxnews.com/us/stripper-...pen-police-say

Stripper fatally stabbed partner in eyes with pen, police say

[lovbyts]

After 20 years, last year was the one and only time it came close to me having to physically push a kid away. Oh, it came SO close, but I kept giving the kid space, held my composure and he realized he was in error. Even the kids friends were amazed that I didn’t hit him as they said that for them it was a no-brainer. The nationality involved is very cliquish and support their own, but I earned a big bit of reputation for how I handled it with them.

That reminds me of this video, one of my favorites. See the look on the punks face after. Priceless.

[lovbyts]

Obama got a shit economy from Bush, and left Orange Guy with a great economy. Republicans and Fox News were splitting hairs trying to attack Obama, resorting to attacks on his attire when nothing else could be said. Obama could have been saving children from a burning fire and Fox would be reporting about some Mexican that robbed a liquor store. The hypocrisy from right-wing media is absolutely astounding. I question the intelligence of those who cannot see what’s right in front of them.

Number 44 left number 45 with race relations set back 30 years and all cops with a target on their back as well as letting the enemies in and pushing our allies away. Even with as much mess we have been in the last 6 months the economy is doing farily well, all things considered which is amazing in itself. I dont disagree with Bush messing things up but non of the way the bailout was done correctly IMO and like always only helped the rich.