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Thread: What Europeans think of American healthcare

  1. #1
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    Thumbs down What Europeans think of American healthcare

    When I was in high school in Ireland in the 2000's, our teachers told us that America is barbaric when it comes to healthcare -- they would give us the example that there's a 911 call and a person is picked up in an ambulance, and so the ambulance gets to the hospital but then they're like "oh wait this guy hasn't got insurance" so they tell the ambulance to fuck off and find another hospital.

    In Ireland, if you have a half-decent household income (for example husband earns €40,000 and wife earns €36,000), then you pay for all your doctor visits (and it's €50 to see a doctor). However if you need to see a doctor for the same issue 3 times in one week, for example to take an antibiotic and come back in 4 days, then you're only charged for the first visit. You have to pay for your own medication -- however there is something called the "Drug Payment Scheme" which is available to everyone, and it places a limit on how much a household has to spend on medication per month. Any family in Ireland -- no matter how rich they are -- only has to spend €70 on medication per month. The remainder is covered by the government. (So if you've got 4 disabled children and they need €830 worth of medication every month, then you pay €70 and the government covers the remaining €810).

    Families in Ireland with a decent household income typically all take out private health insurance. I can't remember how much it was for my own family but I think it was something like €2,000 per year for a family of 6 people. If you're unlucky enough to get cancer, you'll be treated with minimal delay in a private hospital with plush pillows.

    But also in Ireland, for families with a household income below €30,000, the entire family is entitled to what's called a 'medical card'. If you have a medical card, all your doctor visits are free, and also all your medications are free. If you get cancer or need a hip replacement, you go on a waiting list. Some of the waiting lists, e.g. for stuff like a hip replacement, are years long. For cancer you'll go to a local public hospital and you'll been seen right away -- although there won't be as many plush pillows and free yoghurts as in the private hospitals.

    And when it comes to emergency room visits, e.g. you slice your finger dicing carrots, well you'll be seen to immediately in a public hospital, but then you'll later be sent a bill in the post for €100. Also here's a funny one for you: I was detained by Irish police under the Mental Health Act, they actually had to come out in a squad car and abduct me, and so I spent a week in a psych unit -- and then a few days later I received a bill in the post, they actually wanted €500 from me for my involuntary stay (yes I received a bill for a service I didn't purchase).

    So that's Ireland. Next let's talk about the UK (I live in N. Ireland now which is in the UK):

    In the UK, all health stuff is free for everyone. You don't need to qualify your income or number of dependents or anything like that. It's free to see a doctor, and all your prescribed medication is free in the hospital. If you have a little extra money you can of course take out private health insurance, but really this just means that you go on a much shorter waiting list and that you get bigger and plusher pillows (and more yoghurts and icecream).

    So if America is really the wild cruel jungle that I'm led to believe, then how has there been such as thing as "Medicaid" in existence since 1982 (and it says here that every state is a part of it). Surely it can't be so barbaric and cruel if 23% of Americans who haven't got a lot of money (or who are disabled) have access to free health care?

    And what was all that Obamacare stuff about? Why did they make such a big deal out of it if you all already have Medicaid?

    My personal opinion is that the system in the UK is pretty much ideal. I think it's right that money shouldn't be a factor in a person's decision to see a doctor (for example if a person is saving to go on a holiday then I don't think they should be reluctant to go have a lump examined). Of course there's always going to be rich people so let the rich people get expensive health insurance to stay in swanky private hospitals when they get cancer. I think it's ideal that you can go to the doctor, and then go to the pharmacy to pick up your medication, without opening your wallet.
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    Not true. You can’t be denied care for not having insurance.
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    Obamacare is not the same thing as Medicaid. Medicaid is a program that assists low income earners, disabled people, and older people with their medical bills, nursing home costs, etc.

    Obamacare/Affordable Care Act exists separately but works with Medicaid. It was instituted to level the playing field for insurance costs, regulations, and provide coverage for more people. It reduced restrictions on eligibility for Medicaid, reduced payments to Medicaid providers, and reduced income inequality by subsidizing insurance premiums for for the bottom 40% earners (placing higher taxes on the top 1% earners). With ACA a person cannot be denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions or demographics. It sets forth certain standards and rules that private insurance companies must abide by.


    Here are some facts straight from wikipedia:

    Insurance regulations: individual policies
    All new individual major medical health insurance policies sold to individuals and families faced new requirements.[20] The requirements took effect on January 1, 2014. They include:

    Guaranteed issue prohibits insurers from denying coverage to individuals due to pre-existing conditions.
    States were required to ensure the availability of insurance for individual children who did not have coverage via their families.
    A partial community rating allows premiums to vary only by age and location, regardless of preexisting conditions. Premiums for older applicants can be no more than three times those for the youngest.[21]
    Essential health benefits must be provided. The National Academy of Medicine defines the law's "essential health benefits" as "ambulatory patient services; emergency services; hospitalization; maternity and newborn care; mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment; prescription drugs; rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices; laboratory services; preventive and wellness services and chronic disease management; and pediatric services, including oral and vision care"[22][23] and others[24] rated Level A or B[25] by the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force.[26] In determining essential benefits, the law required that standard benefits should offer at least that of a "typical employer plan".[27] States may require additional services.[28]
    Preventive care and screenings for women.[29] "[A]ll Food and Drug Administration approved contraceptive methods, sterilization procedures, and patient education and counseling for all women with reproductive capacity".[30] This mandate applies to all employers and educational institutions except for religious organizations.[31][32] These regulations were included on the recommendations of the Institute of Medicine.[33][34]

    In 2012 Senator Sheldon Whitehouse created this summary to explain his view on the act.
    Annual and lifetime coverage caps on essential benefits were banned.[35][36]
    Insurers are forbidden from dropping policyholders when they become ill.[37]
    All policies must provide an annual maximum out of pocket (MOOP) payment cap for an individual's or family's medical expenses (excluding premiums). After the MOOP payment is reached, all remaining costs must be paid by the insurer.[38]
    Preventive care, vaccinations and medical screenings cannot be subject to co-payments, co-insurance or deductibles.[39][40][41] Specific examples of covered services include: mammograms and colonoscopies, wellness visits, gestational diabetes screening, HPV testing, STI counseling, HIV screening and counseling, contraceptive methods, breastfeeding support/supplies and domestic violence screening and counseling.[42]
    The law established four tiers of coverage: bronze, silver, gold and platinum. All categories offer the essential health benefits. The categories vary in their division of premiums and out-of-pocket costs: bronze plans have the lowest monthly premiums and highest out-of-pocket costs, while platinum plans are the reverse.[27][43] The percentages of health care costs that plans are expected to cover through premiums (as opposed to out-of-pocket costs) are, on average: 60% (bronze), 70% (silver), 80% (gold), and 90% (platinum).[44]
    Insurers are required to implement an appeals process for coverage determination and claims on all new plans.[37]
    Insurers must spend at least 80–85% of premium dollars on health costs; rebates must be issued if this is violated.[45][46]
    Individual mandate
    The individual mandate[47] required everyone to have insurance or pay a penalty. The mandate and limits on open enrollment[48][49] were designed to avoid the insurance death spiral, minimize the free rider problem and prevent the healthcare system from succumbing to adverse selection.

    The mandate was intended to increase the size and diversity of the insured population, including more young and healthy participants to broaden the risk pool, spreading costs.[50]

    Among the groups who were not subject to the individual mandate are:

    Illegal immigrants, estimated at around 8 million—or roughly a third of the 23 million projection—are ineligible for insurance subsidies and Medicaid.[51][52] They remain eligible for emergency services.
    Medicaid-eligible citizens not enrolled in Medicaid.[53]
    Citizens whose insurance coverage would cost more than 8% of household income and are exempt from the penalty.[53]
    Citizens who live in states that opt out of Medicaid expansion and who qualify for neither existing Medicaid coverage nor subsidized coverage.[54]
    The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017,[55] reduced to 0 the fine/tax for violating the individual mandate, starting in 2019.[15]

  4. #4
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    https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/01/polit...les/index.html

    Its so affordable, anyone can afford Obamacare

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    Ever since he was a presidential candidate, President Donald Trump has been promising the American people a “terrific,” “phenomenal” and “fantastic” new health care plan to replace the Affordable Care Act.

    But, in the three and a half years since he set up shop in the Oval Office, he has yet to deliver.

    In his early days on the campaign trail, circa 2015, he said on CNN he would repeal Obamacare and replace it with “something terrific,” and on Sean Hannity’s radio show he said the replacement would be “something great.” Fast-forward to 2020. Trump has promised an Obamacare replacement plan five times so far this year. And the plan is always said to be just a few weeks away.

    VIRTUAL ROUNDTABLE
    Disruption, Acceleration & Innovation: Pharmacists on the Frontline
    This year, pharmacists will play a critical role in the United States’ COVID-19 immunization efforts. Although this is welcomed news, this new duty and other coronavirus responsibilities are exacerbating pharmacist burnout. In this panel, experts will explore how pharmacists can leverage technology to automate administrative tasks and satisfy patient needs.
    REGISTER FOR FREE
    The United States is also in the grips of the COVID-19 pandemic, which has resulted in more than 163,000 U.S. deaths. KFF estimates that 27 million Americans could potentially lose their employer-sponsored insurance and become uninsured following their job loss due to the pandemic. (KHN is an editorially independent program of the Kaiser Family Foundation.) All of this makes health care a hot topic during the 2020 election.

    This record is by no means a comprehensive list, but here are some of the many instances when Trump promised a new health plan was coming soon.

    2016: The Campaign Trail

    Trump tweeted in February that he would immediately repeal and replace Obamacare and that his plan would save money and result in better health care.

    By March, a blueprint, “Healthcare Reform to Make America Great Again,” was posted on his campaign website. It echoed popular GOP talking points but was skimpy on details.

    During his speech accepting the Republican nomination in July, Trump again promised to repeal Obamacare and alluded to ways his replacement would be better. And, by October, Trump promised that within his first 100 days in office he would repeal and replace Obamacare. During his final week of campaigning, he suggested asking Congress to come in for a special session to repeal the health care law quickly.

    2017: The First Year in Office

    January and February:

    Trump told The Washington Post in a January interview that he was close to completing his health care plan and that he wanted to provide “insurance for everybody.”

    He tweeted Feb. 17 that while Democrats were delaying Senate confirmation of Tom Price, his pick to lead the Department of Health and Human Services, the “repeal and replacement of ObamaCare is moving fast!”

    And, on Feb. 28, in his joint address to Congress, Trump discussed his vision for replacing Obamacare. “The way to make health insurance available to everyone is to lower the cost of health insurance, and that is what we are going to do,” he said.

    March: Eyes on Congress — And Twitter

    House Republicans, with backing from the White House, were the ones to introduce new health legislation, the American Health Care Act (AHCA). The repeal-and-replace bill kept in place some of the more popular provisions of the ACA. Some conservative Republicans said the bill didn’t go far enough, deriding it as “Obamacare Lite” and refusing to vote on it.

    On March 9, Trump tweeted, “Despite what you hear in the press, healthcare is coming along great. We are talking to many groups and it will end in a beautiful picture!”

    Later that month, as efforts to pass the AHCA continued to stall, Trump updated his earlier promise.

    “And I never said — I guess I’m here, what, 64 days? I never said repeal and replace Obamacare. You’ve all heard my speeches. I never said repeal it and replace it within 64 days. I have a long time,” said Trump in his remarks from the Oval Office on March 24. (Which was true; he had said within 100 days.) “But I want to have a great health care bill and plan, and we will. It will happen. And it won’t be in the very distant future.”

    April and May: A Roller-Coaster Ride of Legislation and Celebration, Then …

    After an intraparty dust-up, the House narrowly passed the AHCA on May 4. Despite tepid support in the Republican-controlled Senate, Trump convened a Rose Garden celebratory event to mark the House’s passage, saying he felt “so confident” about the measure. He also congratulated Republican lawmakers on what he termed “a great plan” and “incredibly well-crafted.”

    Nonetheless, Senate Republicans first advanced their own replacement bill, the Better Care Reconciliation Act, but ultimately voted on a “skinny repeal” that would have eliminated the employer mandate and given broad authority to states to repeal sections of the ACA. It failed to gain passage when Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) gave it a historic thumbs-down in the wee hours of July 28.

    September and October: Moving On … But Not

    Trump began September by signaling in a series of tweets that he was moving on from health reform.

    But on Oct. 12, he signed an executive order allowing for health care plans to be sold that don’t meet the regulatory standards set up in the Affordable Care Act. The next day, Trump tweeted, “ObamaCare is a broken mess. Piece by piece we will now begin the process of giving America the great HealthCare it deserves!”

    Roughly two weeks later, on Oct. 29, Trump got back to the promise with this tweet: “… we will … have great Healthcare soon after Tax Cuts!”

    2019: More Talk, More Tweets

    March and April: A Moving Target

    It seems that 2018 was a quiet time — at least for presidential promises regarding a soon-to-be-unveiled health plan. It was reported that conservative groups were working on an Obamacare replacement plan. But in 2019, Trump again took up the health plan mantle with this March 26 tweet: “The Republican Party will become ‘The Party of Healthcare!’” Two days later, in remarks to reporters before boarding Marine One, Trump said that “we’re working on a plan now,” but again updated the timeline, saying, “There’s no very great rush from the standpoint” because he was waiting on the court decision for Obamacare. This was a reference to Texas v. U.S., the lawsuit brought by a group of Republican governors to overturn the ACA. It is currently pending before the Supreme Court.

    Backtracking from his earlier promises to repeal and replace Obamacare within his first 100 days in office, Trump on April 3 tweeted: “I was never planning a vote prior to the 2020 Election on the wonderful HealthCare package that some very talented people are now developing for me & the Republican Party. It will be on full display during the Election as a much better & less expensive alternative to ObamaCare…”

    June 16:

    In an interview with ABC News, Trump again said a health care plan would be coming shortly.

    “We’re going to produce phenomenal health care. And we already have the concept of the plan. And it’ll be much better health care,” Trump told George Stephanopoulos. When Stephanopoulos asked if he was going to tell people what the plan was, Trump responded: “Yeah, we’ll be announcing that in two months, maybe less.”

    June 26:

    But then, timing again changed as Trump promised a sweeping health plan after the 2020 election. “If we win the House back, keep the Senate and keep the presidency, we’ll have a plan that blows away ObamaCare,” Trump said in a speech to the Faith and Freedom Coalition’s Road to the Majority conference.

    Oct. 3:

    He reiterated this post-2020 election pledge in a speech to Florida retirees. “If the Republicans take back the House, keep the Senate, keep the presidency — we’re gonna have a fantastic plan,” Trump said.

    Oct. 25:

    Trump told reporters that Republicans have a “great” health care plan. “You’ll have health care the likes of which you’ve never seen,” he said.

    2020: ‘Two Weeks’

    Feb. 10:

    During a White House business session with governors, Trump commented on the Republican governors’ lawsuit to undo the ACA and whether protections for preexisting conditions would be lost: “If a law is overturned, that’s OK, because the new law’s going to have it in.”

    May 6:

    During the signing of a proclamation to honor National Nurses Day, Trump again said Obamacare would be replaced “with great healthcare at a lesser price, and preexisting conditions will be included and you won’t have the individual mandate.”

    July 19:

    Trump told Chris Wallace in a Fox News interview that a health care plan would be unveiled within two weeks: “We’re signing a health care plan within two weeks, a full and complete health care plan that the Supreme Court decision on DACA gave me the right to do.”

    July 31:

    With no sign of a plan yet, reporters asked Trump about it at a Florida event. Trump responded that a “very inclusive” health care plan was coming and “I’ll be signing it sometime very soon.”

    Aug. 3:

    Pushing the timeline once again, Trump said during a press briefing that the health care plan would be introduced “hopefully, prior to the end of the month.”

    Aug. 7:

    Citing his two-week timeline once again, Trump said during a press briefing that he would pursue a major executive order in the next two weeks “requiring health insurance companies to cover all preexisting conditions for all customers.” Trump also said that covering preexisting conditions had “never been done before,” despite the ACA provisions outlining protections for people who have preexisting conditions being among the law’s most popular components. The Trump administration has backed the effort to overturn the ACA — including these protections — now pending before the Supreme Court.

    Aug. 10:

    In response to a reporter’s question about why he was planning to issue an executive order when the ACA already protects those with preexisting conditions, Trump said: “Just a double safety net, and just to let people know that the Republicans are totally strongly in favor of … taking care of people with preexisting conditions. It’s a second platform. We have: Preexisting conditions will be taken care of 100% by Republicans and the Republican Party.”

    Just before publication, we asked the White House for more information regarding when exactly the plan might be unveiled. The press office did not respond to our request for comment.



    ...yeah, it was better before when premiums could be upwards of $10,000 and pre-existing conditions weren't covered, and insurance companies could drop your coverage. The wild west of health insurance, the good old days.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Test Monsterone View Post
    Ever since he was a presidential candidate, President Donald Trump has been promising the American people a “terrific,” “phenomenal” and “fantastic” new health care plan to replace the Affordable Care Act.

    But, in the three and a half years since he set up shop in the Oval Office, he has yet to deliver.

    In his early days on the campaign trail, circa 2015, he said on CNN he would repeal Obamacare and replace it with “something terrific,” and on Sean Hannity’s radio show he said the replacement would be “something great.” Fast-forward to 2020. Trump has promised an Obamacare replacement plan five times so far this year. And the plan is always said to be just a few weeks away.

    VIRTUAL ROUNDTABLE
    Disruption, Acceleration & Innovation: Pharmacists on the Frontline
    This year, pharmacists will play a critical role in the United States’ COVID-19 immunization efforts. Although this is welcomed news, this new duty and other coronavirus responsibilities are exacerbating pharmacist burnout. In this panel, experts will explore how pharmacists can leverage technology to automate administrative tasks and satisfy patient needs.
    REGISTER FOR FREE
    The United States is also in the grips of the COVID-19 pandemic, which has resulted in more than 163,000 U.S. deaths. KFF estimates that 27 million Americans could potentially lose their employer-sponsored insurance and become uninsured following their job loss due to the pandemic. (KHN is an editorially independent program of the Kaiser Family Foundation.) All of this makes health care a hot topic during the 2020 election.

    This record is by no means a comprehensive list, but here are some of the many instances when Trump promised a new health plan was coming soon.

    2016: The Campaign Trail

    Trump tweeted in February that he would immediately repeal and replace Obamacare and that his plan would save money and result in better health care.

    By March, a blueprint, “Healthcare Reform to Make America Great Again,” was posted on his campaign website. It echoed popular GOP talking points but was skimpy on details.

    During his speech accepting the Republican nomination in July, Trump again promised to repeal Obamacare and alluded to ways his replacement would be better. And, by October, Trump promised that within his first 100 days in office he would repeal and replace Obamacare. During his final week of campaigning, he suggested asking Congress to come in for a special session to repeal the health care law quickly.

    2017: The First Year in Office

    January and February:

    Trump told The Washington Post in a January interview that he was close to completing his health care plan and that he wanted to provide “insurance for everybody.”

    He tweeted Feb. 17 that while Democrats were delaying Senate confirmation of Tom Price, his pick to lead the Department of Health and Human Services, the “repeal and replacement of ObamaCare is moving fast!”

    And, on Feb. 28, in his joint address to Congress, Trump discussed his vision for replacing Obamacare. “The way to make health insurance available to everyone is to lower the cost of health insurance, and that is what we are going to do,” he said.

    March: Eyes on Congress — And Twitter

    House Republicans, with backing from the White House, were the ones to introduce new health legislation, the American Health Care Act (AHCA). The repeal-and-replace bill kept in place some of the more popular provisions of the ACA. Some conservative Republicans said the bill didn’t go far enough, deriding it as “Obamacare Lite” and refusing to vote on it.

    On March 9, Trump tweeted, “Despite what you hear in the press, healthcare is coming along great. We are talking to many groups and it will end in a beautiful picture!”

    Later that month, as efforts to pass the AHCA continued to stall, Trump updated his earlier promise.

    “And I never said — I guess I’m here, what, 64 days? I never said repeal and replace Obamacare. You’ve all heard my speeches. I never said repeal it and replace it within 64 days. I have a long time,” said Trump in his remarks from the Oval Office on March 24. (Which was true; he had said within 100 days.) “But I want to have a great health care bill and plan, and we will. It will happen. And it won’t be in the very distant future.”

    April and May: A Roller-Coaster Ride of Legislation and Celebration, Then …

    After an intraparty dust-up, the House narrowly passed the AHCA on May 4. Despite tepid support in the Republican-controlled Senate, Trump convened a Rose Garden celebratory event to mark the House’s passage, saying he felt “so confident” about the measure. He also congratulated Republican lawmakers on what he termed “a great plan” and “incredibly well-crafted.”

    Nonetheless, Senate Republicans first advanced their own replacement bill, the Better Care Reconciliation Act, but ultimately voted on a “skinny repeal” that would have eliminated the employer mandate and given broad authority to states to repeal sections of the ACA. It failed to gain passage when Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) gave it a historic thumbs-down in the wee hours of July 28.

    September and October: Moving On … But Not

    Trump began September by signaling in a series of tweets that he was moving on from health reform.

    But on Oct. 12, he signed an executive order allowing for health care plans to be sold that don’t meet the regulatory standards set up in the Affordable Care Act. The next day, Trump tweeted, “ObamaCare is a broken mess. Piece by piece we will now begin the process of giving America the great HealthCare it deserves!”

    Roughly two weeks later, on Oct. 29, Trump got back to the promise with this tweet: “… we will … have great Healthcare soon after Tax Cuts!”

    2019: More Talk, More Tweets

    March and April: A Moving Target

    It seems that 2018 was a quiet time — at least for presidential promises regarding a soon-to-be-unveiled health plan. It was reported that conservative groups were working on an Obamacare replacement plan. But in 2019, Trump again took up the health plan mantle with this March 26 tweet: “The Republican Party will become ‘The Party of Healthcare!’” Two days later, in remarks to reporters before boarding Marine One, Trump said that “we’re working on a plan now,” but again updated the timeline, saying, “There’s no very great rush from the standpoint” because he was waiting on the court decision for Obamacare. This was a reference to Texas v. U.S., the lawsuit brought by a group of Republican governors to overturn the ACA. It is currently pending before the Supreme Court.

    Backtracking from his earlier promises to repeal and replace Obamacare within his first 100 days in office, Trump on April 3 tweeted: “I was never planning a vote prior to the 2020 Election on the wonderful HealthCare package that some very talented people are now developing for me & the Republican Party. It will be on full display during the Election as a much better & less expensive alternative to ObamaCare…”

    June 16:

    In an interview with ABC News, Trump again said a health care plan would be coming shortly.

    “We’re going to produce phenomenal health care. And we already have the concept of the plan. And it’ll be much better health care,” Trump told George Stephanopoulos. When Stephanopoulos asked if he was going to tell people what the plan was, Trump responded: “Yeah, we’ll be announcing that in two months, maybe less.”

    June 26:

    But then, timing again changed as Trump promised a sweeping health plan after the 2020 election. “If we win the House back, keep the Senate and keep the presidency, we’ll have a plan that blows away ObamaCare,” Trump said in a speech to the Faith and Freedom Coalition’s Road to the Majority conference.

    Oct. 3:

    He reiterated this post-2020 election pledge in a speech to Florida retirees. “If the Republicans take back the House, keep the Senate, keep the presidency — we’re gonna have a fantastic plan,” Trump said.

    Oct. 25:

    Trump told reporters that Republicans have a “great” health care plan. “You’ll have health care the likes of which you’ve never seen,” he said.

    2020: ‘Two Weeks’

    Feb. 10:

    During a White House business session with governors, Trump commented on the Republican governors’ lawsuit to undo the ACA and whether protections for preexisting conditions would be lost: “If a law is overturned, that’s OK, because the new law’s going to have it in.”

    May 6:

    During the signing of a proclamation to honor National Nurses Day, Trump again said Obamacare would be replaced “with great healthcare at a lesser price, and preexisting conditions will be included and you won’t have the individual mandate.”

    July 19:

    Trump told Chris Wallace in a Fox News interview that a health care plan would be unveiled within two weeks: “We’re signing a health care plan within two weeks, a full and complete health care plan that the Supreme Court decision on DACA gave me the right to do.”

    July 31:

    With no sign of a plan yet, reporters asked Trump about it at a Florida event. Trump responded that a “very inclusive” health care plan was coming and “I’ll be signing it sometime very soon.”

    Aug. 3:

    Pushing the timeline once again, Trump said during a press briefing that the health care plan would be introduced “hopefully, prior to the end of the month.”

    Aug. 7:

    Citing his two-week timeline once again, Trump said during a press briefing that he would pursue a major executive order in the next two weeks “requiring health insurance companies to cover all preexisting conditions for all customers.” Trump also said that covering preexisting conditions had “never been done before,” despite the ACA provisions outlining protections for people who have preexisting conditions being among the law’s most popular components. The Trump administration has backed the effort to overturn the ACA — including these protections — now pending before the Supreme Court.

    Aug. 10:

    In response to a reporter’s question about why he was planning to issue an executive order when the ACA already protects those with preexisting conditions, Trump said: “Just a double safety net, and just to let people know that the Republicans are totally strongly in favor of … taking care of people with preexisting conditions. It’s a second platform. We have: Preexisting conditions will be taken care of 100% by Republicans and the Republican Party.”

    Just before publication, we asked the White House for more information regarding when exactly the plan might be unveiled. The press office did not respond to our request for comment.



    ...yeah, it was better before when premiums could be upwards of $10,000 and pre-existing conditions weren't covered, and insurance companies could drop your coverage. The wild west of health insurance, the good old days.


    Do you just make stuff up to sound smart for your own self pleasure because everything you said here is not true. Pre existing conditions were covered under the PCIP plan. And guess what, it took care of my pre existing problem and i only had to pay a fraction of what i would have had to had i opted to pay the hospital. Wanna know how i know? Because i fucking used it... which was 2006. i didnt have any health insurance until 2008 when i started a new job and guess what!? Insurance premiums cost me $21 a week with a $300 deductible...
    But your lunatic Trump hating ass cant fathom that i know lol
    Capebuffalo, Hughinn and lovbyts like this.

  7. #7
    Fluidic Kimbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuz View Post
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/01/polit...les/index.html

    Its so affordable, anyone can afford Obamacare
    I see the following quote from that website:
    "The law sets a ceiling on how much consumers have to spend on health care. In 2019, it's $7,900 for a single person and double that for a family. "


    So let's say I decide to move to America. . . first I need to tolerate the fact that every person who takes a disliking to me can walk into a shop and buy a gun. Second thing I need to accept that I might end up spending 20% of my income on medical care. Tell me about the 'American Dream' again. Did they mean 'dream' in the sense of something whimsical and derisory?
    Last edited by Fluidic Kimbo; 02-10-2021 at 08:08 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capebuffalo View Post
    Not true. You can’t be denied care for not having insurance.
    True.

    A hospital has to treat you.

    Also true:
    The hospital gets shafted on the bill.

    The government of the greatest nation on the earth has such great morals that they demand that private companies lose money so the government doesn't have to pay.

    So what do the private companies do...
    They are forced to raise prices on everyone else.


    Healthcare should be universal in my opinion.
    A private healthcare system that is paid for by the government.

    We already have it for many many Americans.

    Ask our local AARP members: When KelKel and Charger needed hip replacements, they went to a private doctor and Medicare paid for it.
    Last edited by The Deadlifting Dog; 02-10-2021 at 08:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuz View Post
    Do you just make stuff up to sound smart for your own self pleasure because everything you said here is not true. Pre existing conditions were covered under the PCIP plan. And guess what, it took care of my pre existing problem and i only had to pay a fraction of what i would have had to had i opted to pay the hospital. Wanna know how i know? Because i fucking used it... which was 2006. i didnt have any health insurance until 2008 when i started a new job and guess what!? Insurance premiums cost me $21 a week with a $300 deductible...
    But your lunatic Trump hating ass cant fathom that i know lol
    Please realize that your company paid for the rest of your healthcare insurance.
    So unless you know how much the company pitched in, you don't know how expensive the plan was.

    But yes...
    Insurance costs have gone up every year.
    Thru Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Trump...

    I personally think Obamacare was a botched job.
    But Trump promised changes and delivered nothing.

    So it is fair for someone to counter an attack on Obamacare with an attack on #in2weeks.

    From the link you provided...

    The Trump administration is also playing a role in boosting how much people have to pay for care since the limits are set annually by the federal government. The 2019 cap was 7% higher than the year before, the largest increase since the law took effect in 2014.

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/01/polit...les/index.html

    So yeah, Trump can attack Obamacare.
    But he did fucking nothing except...
    Constantly lie that in #in2weeks a big change was coming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluidic Kimbo View Post
    I see the following quote from that website:
    "The law sets a ceiling on how much consumers have to spend on health care. In 2019, it's $7,900 for a single person and double that for a family. "


    So let's say I decide to move to America. . . first I need to tolerate the fact that every person who takes a disliking to me can walk into a shop and buy a gun. Second thing I need to accept that I might end up spending 20% of my income on medical care. Tell me about the 'American Dream' again. Did they mean 'dream' in the sense of something whimsical and derisory?
    The thing is Kimbo, if someone wants a gun they will get it whether they walk into a shop and buy it legally or get it of the street unregistered. Do you understand that?

    The healthcare system in America has never been ideal and probably never will be.

    The thing about the USA is you have “opportunities “ so to speak. Some people work really hard and manage to get a good job/lifestyle but the thing is there is nothing guaranteed. I can guarantee its better than living in a communist nation
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog View Post
    Please realize that your company paid for the rest of your healthcare insurance.
    So unless you know how much the company pitched in, you don't know how expensive the plan was.

    But yes...
    Insurance costs have gone up every year.
    Thru Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Trump...

    I personally think Obamacare was a botched job.
    But Trump promised changes and delivered nothing.

    So it is fair for someone to counter an attack on Obamacare with an attack on #in2weeks.

    From the link you provided...

    The Trump administration is also playing a role in boosting how much people have to pay for care since the limits are set annually by the federal government. The 2019 cap was 7% higher than the year before, the largest increase since the law took effect in 2014.

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/01/polit...les/index.html

    So yeah, Trump can attack Obamacare.
    But he did fucking nothing except...
    Constantly lie that in #in2weeks a big change was coming.
    Please realize my company didnt have to pay “as much” towards my premiums before Obamacare.

    Trump wanted to change the healthcare system but never actually succeeded in undoing it. Why? Did he actually care? I dont know. Biden sure doenst have a problem undoing Trumps changes tho does he?

    I actually didnt have insurance from 2014-2017 and had looked into trying to buy an Obamacare policy. The “bronze” plan was the only option I could afford and the premiums were low enough that I could pay monthly but the deductible was thousands of fucking dollars lol

    So basically unless you have a major survery costing 100’s of thousands of dollars why even have that bullshit? Its cheapers to just pay the medical professional out of pocket. Obamacare=biggest crock of shit during his presidency
    Last edited by Cuz; 02-10-2021 at 08:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuz View Post
    Please realize my company didnt have to pay “as much” towards my premiums before Obamacare.

    Trump wanted to change the healthcare system but never actually succeeded in undoing it. Why? Did he actually care? I dont know. Biden sure doenst have a problem undoing Trumps changes tho does he?
    You didn't pay as much because it was 2008.
    Things cost less back in 2008.

    Insurance cost went up every year before Obamacare and after.

    Obama tried and failed.
    Trump simply lied.

    What Europeans think of American healthcare-healthcare-cost.jpg

    We've gone from paying 5% of our GDP to healthcare in 1962 to over 15% in 2020.
    Last edited by The Deadlifting Dog; 02-10-2021 at 08:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog View Post
    You didn't pay as much because it was 2008.
    Things cost less back in 2008.

    Insurance cost went up every year before Obamacare and after.

    Obama tried and failed.
    Trump simply lied.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	healthcare cost.jpg 
Views:	9 
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    We've gone from paying 5% of our GDP to healthcare in 1962 to over 15% in 2020.
    My insurance premiums right now increase $5 every single year, each week. For instance if this year i pay $50 per week, next year i will pay $55 per week and so on. However my deductible doesn’t change thankfully.

    Speaking of things costing less back in 2008, compared to now. Pickup trucks....utterly insane

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuz View Post
    Do you just make stuff up to sound smart for your own self pleasure because everything you said here is not true. Pre existing conditions were covered under the PCIP plan. And guess what, it took care of my pre existing problem and i only had to pay a fraction of what i would have had to had i opted to pay the hospital. Wanna know how i know? Because i fucking used it... which was 2006. i didnt have any health insurance until 2008 when i started a new job and guess what!? Insurance premiums cost me $21 a week with a $300 deductible...
    But your lunatic Trump hating ass cant fathom that i know lol
    I pulled that out of your own article. Iíve never had insurance that low, so glad it worked out for you. That said, if it was as bad as Fox News tells you it is, then why are we still using it? What happened to repeal and replace?

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    Went from regular insurance in America to combined social health/private care in Germany, to a free for all in India (I was asked for a credit card while in the ER for a scan), to socialized medicine in Sweden. No clue what I prefer at this point but it's not an Indian purely capitalistic option for sure.

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    How much money do you think would come out of our tax dollars say if we had a universal healthcare plan? Who would pay for the ones that sit on their asses and already draw a check?
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    ACA works on the premise that the more people that join the program, the lower costs will be, because there will be a bigger pool to pull from. That's how insurance works.

    Who would pay for the ones that sit on their asses (and disabled, low-income earners, old, etc.)? Medicare/Medicaid. Same ones before Obamacare, same ones after.


    That is why there are penalties for not having insurance... because if you get sick, the taxpayers have to pay for your medical bills. This encourages people to sign up. ACA only started 6 years ago, and there is room for improvement, but things will get better as more people join. Honestly, if they just made everyone pay a tax for health insurance, it would probably work out the best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuz View Post
    How much money do you think would come out of our tax dollars say if we had a universal healthcare plan? Who would pay for the ones that sit on their asses and already draw a check?
    Not to mention illegal immigrants.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Test Monsterone View Post
    Who would pay for the ones that sit on their asses (and disabled, low-income earners, old, etc.)? Medicare/Medicaid. Same ones before Obamacare, same ones after.
    That is exactly my point.

    We already pay for insurance for:
    the old
    the disabled
    the poor
    the unemployed
    the jailed
    the military
    and almost every single government employee. (teachers, policeman, garbagemen, politicians... they all get heavily subsidized if not free insurance.)

    So who is paying the most...
    The self employed.
    Below them is the people working for private companies.

    I pay $25,000/year for insurance plus a $6000/yr deductible.

    What happens to my family if I have a bad year and only make $75,000?
    I either spend every last penny on health insurance or...
    I roll the dice and go without insurance.
    One bad accident could then bankrupt me.


    So we are punishing the self employed the most and rewarding the felon.

    Daughter needs a surgery and daddy is middle class self employed... so sorry... maybe she should commit a crime.
    Last edited by The Deadlifting Dog; 02-10-2021 at 09:34 AM.
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    anything, any program the govt runs is a failure regardless who is at the helm.

    TM, what do you do for a living? Im trying to look at things different, see from other angles.
    curious to know ur profession, what puts food on ur table and pays the bills?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mooseman33 View Post
    anything, any program the govt runs is a failure regardless who is at the helm.

    TM, what do you do for a living? Im trying to look at things different, see from other angles.
    curious to know ur profession, what puts food on ur table and pays the bills?
    Do you think Medicare and social security are failures?
    Is our military a failure?
    Are our schools a failure?
    Our highways and bridges and tunnels are all failures?
    Our postal service is a failure?

    I always pegged you as pro-police.
    I guess the policeforce is a failure too.

    Fuck, at this rate... why have a governement at all.
    Last edited by The Deadlifting Dog; 02-10-2021 at 09:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capebuffalo View Post
    Not to mention illegal immigrants.
    I don't think illegal immigrants would benefit for socialized medicine. That would mean they would need a social security number or some kind of identity... kinda goes against being "illegal."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mooseman33 View Post
    anything, any program the govt runs is a failure regardless who is at the helm.

    TM, what do you do for a living? Im trying to look at things different, see from other angles.
    curious to know ur profession, what puts food on ur table and pays the bills?
    I work in business. System administration/process automation for a corporation.

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    Court Says Idaho Must Provide Gender Confirmation Surgery To Transgender Inmate

    https://www.npr.org/2019/08/23/75378...sgender-inmate


    Here's a case for nearly everyone to get behind some part.

    The US government has to pay for a sex change for a felon.

    Yet we don't have universal healthcare.

    Either felons should get less or I should get more IMO.

    (This is not a crack at transgenders. Just making a point.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Test Monsterone View Post
    I don't think illegal immigrants would benefit for socialized medicine. That would mean they would need a social security number or some kind of identity... kinda goes against being "illegal."
    Unauthorized immigrants are ineligible for most major federally-funded safety net programs. Key safety net programs, including the cash welfare program Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF), the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP, formerly known as the Food Stamp Program), and the means-tested disability program Supplemental Security Income (SSI) are available only to “qualified” immigrants and citizens (see here for a review). Undocumented immigrants, along with some legal immigrants, are typically in the “unqualified” category unless they are victims of abuse or trafficking. Undocumented immigrants are also excluded from most federal health programs. They are prohibited from non-emergency Medicaid, the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP), and the Medicare program. Undocumented immigrants are not eligible to receive insurance subsidies under the Affordable Care Act or to participate in the ACA insurance exchanges. They may be able to privately purchase insurance through their employer or on the non-group market. An estimated 40 percent of non-elderly undocumented immigrants have no health insurance. According to a study by the CATO Institute, low-income non-citizens (documented and undocumented combined) have lower participation rates in safety net programs than low-income citizens, in part due to eligibility restrictions for the undocumented.

    I think Medicaid applies.
    Last edited by Capebuffalo; 02-10-2021 at 09:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capebuffalo View Post
    Not to mention illegal immigrants.
    They already can go to a hospital and get free coverage.
    The hospital pays for it.
    And the hospitals then raise prices.

    We pay for it thru higher prices or we would pay for it thru higher taxes.

    The other options are for hospitals to deny them.
    Or to lower illegal immigration.

    "Under federal law, hospitals that receive federal funding – and most do – are required to care for patients who need emergency care, regardless of their immigration status or whether they are insured, Ehlke says. Hospital officials must provide care until the patient is stabilized, but not beyond that point. Hospitals also must develop a release plan for such patients."

    https://health.usnews.com/wellness/a...or-health-care
    Last edited by The Deadlifting Dog; 02-10-2021 at 09:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog View Post
    True.

    A hospital has to treat you.

    Also true:
    The hospital gets shafted on the bill.

    The government of the greatest nation on the earth has such great morals that they demand that private companies lose money so the government doesn't have to pay.

    So what do the private companies do...
    They are forced to raise prices on everyone else.
    This is a non-issue in the UK & Ireland for two reasons:

    (Reason 1) When a person is seriously hurt and they call 911 for an ambulance, the ambulance drives straight to the nearest public hospital. In more serious circumstances, the air ambulance (i.e. a helicopter) comes to pick them up to bring them to the biggest public hospital within about 300 miles. A public ambulance never heads to a private hospital, and I don't think the private hospitals have ambulances. But let's say someone in a mechanic's garage throws their friend in the back seat of their car... again they'd drive to a public hospital -- I've never heard of anyone driving straight to a private hospital (and I'll explain why in Reason 2).

    (Reason 2) The private hospitals over here are for planned procedures, stuff like hip replacements where the entire medical team has plenty of time to prepare. If I had a car fall on me in a mechanic's garage, and if I'd lost a lot of blood and couldn't feel my feet, I'd wanna go to a big hospital with all sorts of scanners and facilities -- not a shitty little private one with one or two operating theatres.

    I've never heard of a situation in the UK & Ireland where a patient shows up at a private hospital demanding treatment. I'm not sure what the doctors would do if a person showed up at a private hospital here having lost a lot of blood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Test Monsterone View Post
    ACA works on the premise that the more people that join the program, the lower costs will be, because there will be a bigger pool to pull from. That's how insurance works.

    Who would pay for the ones that sit on their asses (and disabled, low-income earners, old, etc.)? Medicare/Medicaid. Same ones before Obamacare, same ones after.


    That is why there are penalties for not having insurance... because if you get sick, the taxpayers have to pay for your medical bills. This encourages people to sign up. ACA only started 6 years ago, and there is room for improvement, but things will get better as more people join. Honestly, if they just made everyone pay a tax for health insurance, it would probably work out the best.
    So raise taxes more ? Got it
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuz View Post
    So raise taxes more ? Got it
    No, you don't get it. I'm not saying raise taxes, I'm saying that if everyone pitched 10 bucks a month, we'd have 42 billion dollars a year for insurance. Like you, I don't like that I have to pay $300+ a month for insurance when I hardly ever go to a doctor. This would eliminate that problem. They people who are sick get treatment, the rest don't. When you get sick, you will get treatment. Everyone just pitches in a bit but the result is that health costs are cheaper. There are other improvements that can be made to lower insurance costs, like the price of medicine and treatment. An easy one, why the hell is viagra so expensive? Because greed. Why does an MRI cost thousands?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Test Monsterone View Post
    No, you don't get it. I'm not saying raise taxes, I'm saying that if everyone pitched 10 bucks a month, we'd have 42 billion dollars a year for insurance. Like you, I don't like that I have to pay $300+ a month for insurance when I hardly ever go to a doctor. This would eliminate that problem. They people who are sick get treatment, the rest don't. When you get sick, you will get treatment. Everyone just pitches in a bit but the result is that health costs are cheaper. There are other improvements that can be made to lower insurance costs, like the price of medicine and treatment. An easy one, why the hell is viagra so expensive? Because greed. Why does an MRI cost thousands?
    If you're tired of the rising costs and sinking benefits of traditional health insurance, medical health sharing may be for you. We offer a variety of affordable Christian health sharing programs to fit your lifestyle and needs.

    https://www.medical-sharing.com/?msc...hare%20-%20BMM

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog View Post
    That is exactly my point.

    We already pay for insurance for:
    the old
    the disabled
    the poor
    the unemployed
    the jailed
    the military
    and almost every single government employee. (teachers, policeman, garbagemen, politicians... they all get heavily subsidized if not free insurance.)

    So who is paying the most...
    The self employed.
    Below them is the people working for private companies.

    I pay $25,000/year for insurance plus a $6000/yr deductible.

    What happens to my family if I have a bad year and only make $75,000?
    I either spend every last penny on health insurance or...
    I roll the dice and go without insurance.
    One bad accident could then bankrupt me.


    So we are punishing the self employed the most and rewarding the felon.


    Daughter needs a surgery and daddy is middle class self employed... so sorry... maybe she should commit a crime.

    It just doesn't make sense to me either.

    I'm not asking for anything for free.

    Understand that the government can't give someone something they didn't earn, without taking it from someone who did.

    I don't have an issue paying for my own families healthcare. I don't know why I have to pay for mine and someone else's. Which is why it's so expensive for middle class paying customers. Like the self employed.

    The war on the middle class continues, for the purpose of eliminating competition for the elite.
    Last edited by Hughinn; 02-10-2021 at 10:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hughinn View Post
    It just doesn't make sense to me either.

    I'm not asking for anything for free.

    Understand that the government can't give someone something they didn't earn, without taking it from someone who did.

    I don't have an issue paying for my own families healthcare. I don't know why I have to pay for mine and someone else's. Which is why it's so expensive for middle class paying customers. Like the self employed.

    The war on the middle class continues, for the purpose of eliminating competition for the elite.
    Neither am I.

    I will pay more in taxes.

    I am also perfectly fine paying taxes to help my fellow Americans.

    I believe Amercians should help the less fortunate and also honor people's service to our great nation.

    For instance, I have no problem paying taxes to give healthcare to the military and veterans for instance.

    I find it telling that you don't think you should have to support the military.

    Perhaps you would like to rephrase your thoughts.


    I do not believe their is a war on the middle class.
    While I don't think America is perfect... I think it is a great nation filled with mostly great people.
    Is their corruption at the top?... sure... there is corruption at every level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog View Post
    Neither am I.

    I will pay more in taxes.

    I am also perfectly fine paying taxes to help my fellow Americans.

    I believe Amercians should help the less fortunate and also honor people's service to our great nation.

    For instance, I have no problem paying taxes to give healthcare to the military and veterans for instance.

    I find it telling that you don't think you should have to support the military.

    Perhaps you would like to rephrase your thoughts.


    I do not believe their is a war on the middle class.
    While I don't think America is perfect... I think it is a great nation filled with mostly great people.
    Is their corruption at the top?... sure... there is corruption at every level.
    I didn't say anything about the military.

    And I don't mind helping people who are struggling either.

    But I refuse to help anybody that won't even try to help themselves. I can be honest when I say that if a man won't try to help himself, then I won't willing help him. That doesn't include the young or vulnerable that cannot help themselves.

    I'm not asking for anything for free. And I don't want anything I can't get on my own.

    My issue with it really isn't much different than yours. The healthcare system is too expensive and overregulated.
    Last edited by Hughinn; 02-10-2021 at 11:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hughinn View Post
    I don't know why I have to pay for mine and someone else's. .
    Quote Originally Posted by Hughinn View Post
    I didn't say anything about the military.

    And I don't mind helping people who are struggling either.
    This is exactly why I asked you if you wanted to rephrase.

    At first you said you don't know why you should pay for others.

    Then you rephrased it to you don't mind paying for others.



    Obviously you can see that those two statements can be viewed as contradictory.
    It's not an attack.
    I'm just pointing out that I didn't believe that you actually believed your first statement.
    Thus I asked you to rephrase.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog View Post
    This is exactly why I asked you if you wanted to rephrase.

    At first you said you don't know why you should pay for others.

    Then you rephrased it to you don't mind paying for others.



    Obviously you can see that those two statements can be viewed as contradictory.
    It's not an attack.
    I'm just pointing out that I didn't believe that you actually believed your first statement.
    Thus I asked you to rephrase.
    Which is why I clarified it. Irregardless, I don't want to pay for someone else who won't help themselves. And I don't like being forced to.

    But, in principle as far as healthcare, I think everyone agrees what we have needs some fixing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hughinn View Post
    Which is why I clarified it. Irregardless, I don't want to pay for someone else who won't help themselves. And I don't like being forced to.

    But, in principle as far as healthcare, I think everyone agrees what we have needs some fixing.
    I agree with you. It wasn't an attack.

    In the same way...
    Mooseman made a statement earlier where he said everything the Government does they fuck up.
    I pointed out that that statement makes it seem like he believes the police and military are all fucked up.
    It's not an attack.

    It's just a call to be more careful with wording.
    Blanket statements are dangerous.

    It is a Republican theme to say the government fucks up everything.
    Well if that truly the case then the Republicans would be all for Defunding the Police.
    Because hell, smaller government is better and the police are fucked up.
    Might as well make them smaller.

    So I was simply pointing out that a common argument against universal healthcare is that the government fucks everything up.
    But the government doesn't fuck everything up in my opinion.

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    I don’t mind helping others. I mind being told who I’m going to help and how much they will make me pay to help. This is helping.

    The founders of veteran-owned Black Rifle Coffee Company announced a total of $250,000 in donations to the Barstool Fund Wednesday on "Fox & Friends."

    The company said it would pledge $150,000 and co-founder Mat Best unexpectedly told host Ainsley Earhardt that he would kick in $100,000 of his own money, stressing the importance of helping small businesses survive the coronavirus pandemic.

    Best credited company CEO Evan Hafer for leading the effort to support Barstool Sports founder Dave Portnoy’s philanthropic efforts.


    NYC SMALL BUSINESS OWNER THANKS BARSTOOL'S PORTNOY IN PERSON FOR HELPING HIM SURVIVE PANDEMIC


    "It was instantaneous," said Hafer, speaking about his decision to help the fund after he saw Portnoy discussing it recently on Fox News Channel.

    Hafer served in the U.S. Army as an infantryman and in Special Forces, with deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. He said the company ethos is to turn its profits into something positive for the country, including supporting law enforcement, the military, first responders and service organizations.

    "We’re glad to give back. We’re not Elon Musk yet, not even close, but we’re always gonna be a leader in the community and do what we can," added Best, a former Army Ranger who deployed five times to Iraq and Afghanistan.

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    Be careful what you wish for 50% tax bracket isnít hard to hit here in Canada. Iíd trade my 50,000 taxes I paid this year for a private system all day long. Our health care is crap too. Months wait for testing, you need a specialist? See you in 9 months.... Canada health care is atrocious. Enjoy 13% tax on everything you buy too...
    Hughinn, Capebuffalo, Cuz and 1 others like this.

  40. #40
    Fluidic Kimbo's Avatar
    Fluidic Kimbo is online now Morale Officer (de facto)
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    The #1 problem with the United States of America is that a continent became a country.

    The USA is just too big. One leader should not have the power to pardon people over such a great land area and population. You should split into 6 countries: Northeast, Southwest, West, Southeast, Midwest, Texas.

    After you've split into 6 independent countries you should have a free trade agreement, and a agreement on criminal extradition.

    The military should be split 6 ways too -- but with an agreement to team up against the baddies if one country goes to war -- similar to the European Allies.

    after the USA has split into 6 independent countries you might be able to start solving problems. Of course Texas will keep all its guns legal but maybe the other 5 can start to phase them out.

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