Disgrace Your Friend's Memory?

[Fluidic Kimbo]

Here in the UK in Europe, we have a penalty points system for driving licences.

If you clock up 12 points then you lose your licence for a year or two. Typically you get 3 points for running a red light, or 1 point for driving on bald tyres.

A friend of mine had about 9 or 10 points, and so he only needed two or three more points to lose his licence. He needed his car to get to work, and if he lost his licence then he would have had to quit his job and probably end his career because he works in a big city and lives in a small town.

So I was talking to him today, and he told me that 2 months ago he received another letter in the post, he had been caught on another speeding camera. So if he admitted to this offence he would have lost his licence.

When you receive a letter in the post for something like speeding or running a red light, you can fill out the form to say that somebody else was driving your car at the time, and then the charges will be made against the person whom you nominate. That other person can then defend themselves, and they can make the claim that you lied by falsely nominating them.

Well anyway, what my friend did was that he put the name of his deceased friend down on the form. His friend died only about a month ago. So when it goes to court, if he is able to put on a good act, the judge might take his word for it and let him keep his licence.

Do you think that my friend has disgraced the memory of his own friend?

[Wannabhuge14]

Here in the UK in Europe, we have a penalty points system for driving licences.

If you clock up 12 points then you lose your licence for a year or two. Typically you get 3 points for running a red light, or 1 point for driving on bald tyres.

A friend of mine had about 9 or 10 points, and so he only needed two or three more points to lose his licence. He needed his car to get to work, and if he lost his licence then he would have had to quit his job and probably end his career because he works in a big city and lives in a small town.

So I was talking to him today, and he told me that 2 months ago he received another letter in the post, he had been caught on another speeding camera. So if he admitted to this offence he would have lost his licence.

When you receive a letter in the post for something like speeding or running a red light, you can fill out the form to say that somebody else was driving your car at the time, and then the charges will be made against the person whom you nominate. That other person can then defend themselves, and they can make the claim that you lied by falsely nominating them.

Well anyway, what my friend did was that he put the name of his deceased friend down on the form. His friend died only about a month ago. So when it goes to court, if he is able to put on a good act, the judge might take his word for it and let him keep his licence.

Do you think that my friend has disgraced the memory of his own friend?

That's a tough one. It's easy for everyone to day they wouldn't do that. But when your livelihood is at stake people often do things they wouldn't do under different circumstances. I'm sure he means no I'll will to your friend. He just in a tough spot. He should be more responsible to begin with, though

[Honkey_Kong]

Not really. Traffic laws like this are stupid. If there is no victim, there should be no crime (or infraction). The dead friend is never going to know and when people bring him up, nobody is going to talk about how he got framed for a traffic offense.

[BG]

Still his wingman............taking one last one for the team.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

Still his wingman............taking one last one for the team.

I was considering this myself. For example they say that a friend will bail you out when you're in trouble, but a good friend will sit in the cell beside you.

I was just thinking that if I lost someone close to me, and if I ever were to say or write their name, it would be to think back fondly on the person, to reminisce and to honour them both in life and in death.

I'm not so sure how I'd feel with a black ball-point pen in my hand writing the block capitals of their name onto a form to pledge that they were driving my car when it was travelling in excess of the speed limit. I don't think so much that it's a big deal that I'm associating my late friend with a traffic offense, but rather that I'm bringing up their name for a purpose only to suit myself -- rather than in loving memory or to reminisce (even if it's to reminisce on something stupid they did).

If I had that paper form on the table in front of me with a black ball-point pen in my hand, I'm not so sure if my right hand would make the motions to spell out their name. Not so sure.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

That's a tough one. It's easy for everyone to day they wouldn't do that. But when your livelihood is at stake people often do things they wouldn't do under different circumstances.

If I die today, and if I'm in the afterlife for 20 years while another person is still alive down on Earth, and if I hear that they put my name on a speeding form, I would consider whether I like the person or not. If I like the person then they're getting a fist pump when they walk through the pearly gates. If I don't like them then I'm going to tell the almighty creator that that person is an incarnation of Satan and that I saw him molesting a child with my own eyes.

[ghettoboyd]

If I die today, and if I'm in the afterlife for 20 years while another person is still alive down on Earth, and if I hear that they put my name on a speeding form, I would consider whether I like the person or not. If I like the person then they're getting a fist pump when they walk through the pearly gates. If I don't like them then I'm going to tell the almighty creator that that person is an incarnation of Satan and that I saw him molesting a child with my own eyes.

He’d know your lying don’t you think?...

[Honkey_Kong]

He’d know your lying don’t you think?...

Yeah he's not the guy you want to lie to.

[wango]

Here in the UK in Europe, we have a penalty points system for driving licences.

If you clock up 12 points then you lose your licence for a year or two. Typically you get 3 points for running a red light, or 1 point for driving on bald tyres.

A friend of mine had about 9 or 10 points, and so he only needed two or three more points to lose his licence. He needed his car to get to work, and if he lost his licence then he would have had to quit his job and probably end his career because he works in a big city and lives in a small town.

So I was talking to him today, and he told me that 2 months ago he received another letter in the post, he had been caught on another speeding camera. So if he admitted to this offence he would have lost his licence.

When you receive a letter in the post for something like speeding or running a red light, you can fill out the form to say that somebody else was driving your car at the time, and then the charges will be made against the person whom you nominate. That other person can then defend themselves, and they can make the claim that you lied by falsely nominating them.

Well anyway, what my friend did was that he put the name of his deceased friend down on the form. His friend died only about a month ago. So when it goes to court, if he is able to put on a good act, the judge might take his word for it and let him keep his licence.

Do you think that my friend has disgraced the memory of his own friend?

Yeah, absolutely disgraced it. Easy black & white decision imo. Respect the memory of the dead that you loved and called friends, seems like a dirt bag move on his part. Credit to you again though, you chose unusual yet interesting topics to consider FK.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

Yeah, absolutely disgraced it. Easy black & white decision imo. Respect the memory of the dead that you loved and called friends, seems like a dirt bag move on his part. Credit to you again though, you chose unusual yet interesting topics to consider FK.

I will spend a few days thinking about this, and I will consider everybody's arguments, but for the time being I'm leaning toward the proxinator.

I think a dead friend's name can be brought up lightheartedly to make a joke, or even to pull a prank -- but that's very different to writing their name on a government form. Joking and pranking keeps the memory of a friend alive. Writing their name on a traffic offense form is just to suit one's own needs.

With that said though, we're supposed to act desperately in desperate situations. If I had three children and one of them needed live-saving surgery and regular car rides to treatments, I'd steal the money I need and I'd tell whatever lies I need to tell to keep my driving license... although I'd probably still feel like a piece of shit. Integrity can be considered as a luxury for some people though.

[ghettoboyd]

Well if that last part you wrote is true don’t you think he deserves a break?...he’s a good person right?...

[bullshark99]

Not trying to bust balls but if you really need to ask this in a public forum, you have your answer.

[wango]

I will spend a few days thinking about this, and I will consider everybody's arguments, but for the time being I'm leaning toward the proxinator.

I think a dead friend's name can be brought up lightheartedly to make a joke, or even to pull a prank -- but that's very different to writing their name on a government form. Joking and pranking keeps the memory of a friend alive. Writing their name on a traffic offense form is just to suit one's own needs.

With that said though, we're supposed to act desperately in desperate situations. If I had three children and one of them needed live-saving surgery and regular car rides to treatments, I'd steal the money I need and I'd tell whatever lies I need to tell to keep my driving license... although I'd probably still feel like a piece of shit. Integrity can be considered as a luxury for some people though.

And this (last paragraph) is where the two of us would disagree. Acting desperately and robbing/harming others is not noble and forgivable. Also disagree about integrity.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

And this (last paragraph) is where the two of us would disagree. Acting desperately and robbing/harming others is not noble and forgivable. Also disagree about integrity.

Let's say you're an employer and you have $7,055,000 in your bank account, and one day you check your account balance to see you only have $6,912,000. And so you investigate and find that your #1 employee who's been with you for 17 years has taken the money. And so you confront him about it when he's by himself sitting eating lunch, and he tells you that his 4yr old daughter needed life-saving treatment -- he says he knew he'd get caught. So you say to him, 'Why didn't you just ask me for the money?', and he replies 'Because you might have said no and then made sure I couldn't take it -- if I just took it then I had some time before you'd notice'.

I would make sure that my #1 employee doesn't have access to any more of my money, but I'm not so sure I'd penalise him for doing something that I think is noble and which doesn't require forgiveness.

I would not admire a person for prioritising their integrity and their relationship with their employer of 17 years over the life-saving treatmeant of their 4yr old daughter -- my appraisal of such behaviour would be that they have a deep misunderstanding of the human condition. Money doesn't matter. Jobs don't matter. Integrity and dignity are to be maintained however there are mitigating circumstances in these lives we live. I don't think a chip has been taken out of my #1 employee's integrity or dignity -- if anything, he has demonstrated the right values. Perhaps he should be promoted to director with those values.

[Mooseman33]

couple things.
1. kimbo u are insane. actually saying u will take days to think about this is crazy. get a life man.
2. what kind of friends do some of u have. myself or anyone I ride with would demand that this be done. BG hit nail on head, wingman forever.
I think wango or prox said that its black and white. those are not ride or die friends, those are the guys u dont want in ur circle.

this shit has nothing to do with u kimbo, its between ur friend and the dead dude.

[wango]

Let's say you're an employer and you have $7,055,000 in your bank account, and one day you check your account balance to see you only have $6,912,000. And so you investigate and find that your #1 employee who's been with you for 17 years has taken the money. And so you confront him about it when he's by himself sitting eating lunch, and he tells you that his 4yr old daughter needed life-saving treatment -- he says he knew he'd get caught. So you say to him, 'Why didn't you just ask me for the money?', and he replies 'Because you might have said no and then made sure I couldn't take it -- if I just took it then I had some time before you'd notice'.

I would make sure that my #1 employee doesn't have access to any more of my money, but I'm not so sure I'd penalise him for doing something that I think is noble and which doesn't require forgiveness.

I would not admire a person for prioritising their integrity and their relationship with their employer of 17 years over the life-saving treatmeant of their 4yr old daughter -- my appraisal of such behaviour would be that they have a deep misunderstanding of the human condition. Money doesn't matter. Jobs don't matter. Integrity and dignity are to be maintained however there are mitigating circumstances in these lives we live. I don't think a chip has been taken out of my #1 employee's integrity or dignity -- if anything, he has demonstrated the right values. Perhaps he should be promoted to director with those values.

I hear what you are saying FK, but I really do see things from a different perspective. My favorite division of philosophy is morals & ethics and one thing you realize pretty quick is that there are really no universally accepted “rules for life”.

Regarding integrity, that’s a term that’s everyone could view differently. I think that if you feel that you or others have integrity, it’s because you or they are following views that you or they personally agree upon.

I understand the need for desperate measures to help a 4 year old daughter, however breaking established laws that you are expected to follow where you have chosen to live, is not acceptable. To me as tragic as the loss of a life is, it once again is a black and white issue to me. And it’s not like I’m being a martyr, it’s just how I personally see things. I’m not judging you or others if they see things differently. When you start messing around with the gray area, it’s when everyone can’t decide which gray is acceptable and which isn’t.

As an employer of someone for that long and that particular employee is my #1, I would be so devastated that employee couldn’t trust me as a friend to ask for help in the first place. I would give the guy as much money as I could afford, but honestly would be looking at myself and questioning how I could think of this person as my #1 employee for so long and how he wouldn’t ask me first.

[ghettoboyd]

I hear what you are saying FK, but I really do see things from a different perspective. My favorite division of philosophy is morals & ethics and one thing you realize pretty quick is that there are really no universally accepted “rules for life”.

Regarding integrity, that’s a term that’s everyone could view differently. I think that if you feel that you or others have integrity, it’s because you or they are following views that you or they personally agree upon.

I understand the need for desperate measures to help a 4 year old daughter, however breaking established laws that you are expected to follow where you have chosen to live, is not acceptable. To me as tragic as the loss of a life is, it once again is a black and white issue to me. And it’s not like I’m being a martyr, it’s just how I personally see things. I’m not judging you or others if they see things differently. When you start messing around with the gray area, it’s when everyone can’t decide which gray is acceptable and which isn’t.

As an employer of someone for that long and that particular employee is my #1, I would be so devastated that employee couldn’t trust me as a friend to ask for help in the first place. I would give the guy as much money as I could afford, but honestly would be looking at myself and questioning how I could think of this person as my #1 employee for so long and how he wouldn’t ask me first.

pride wango some people just can’t get past it to ask hence the desperate measures taken but to me when your family is involved I’d make the ultimate sacrifice whatever that may be to save anyone in my family especially my daughter...just saying

[wango]

pride wango some people just can’t get past it to ask hence the desperate measures taken but to me when your family is involved I’d make the ultimate sacrifice whatever that may be to save anyone in my family especially my daughter...just saying

Agreed about pride, absolutely. But I wouldn’t let my pride to allow me to break a law or steal, just me. Again not passing judgement or saying I’m right or wrong about desperate times. I won’t have a gun in the house if in our defense, one of my stray bullets enters a neighbors home and hurts a neighbor. My wife is actually firmer on that point than myself. Just us though. We don’t have kids for the record. Respect your point of view completely.

To FK, again, odd topic perhaps for a forum like this - but it’s great food for thought.

[Honkey_Kong]

Agreed about pride, absolutely. But I wouldn’t let my pride to allow me to break a law or steal, just me. Again not passing judgement or saying I’m right or wrong about desperate times. I won’t have a gun in the house if in our defense, one of my stray bullets enters a neighbors home and hurts a neighbor. My wife is actually firmer on that point than myself. Just us though. We don’t have kids for the record. Respect your point of view completely.

To FK, again, odd topic perhaps for a forum like this - but it’s great food for thought.

If it was a matter of life and death, I'd steal for my wife and kids.... Well maybe not the wife, but definitely the kids. Imagine how you'd feel knowing that you could've done something to keep them alive. Sure stealing is wrong, but under a circumstance like that it's justifiable and I'd be willing to spend the time in jail afterwards for that. In fact, I'd think I was the biggest piece of schitte if I didn't in that case.

Mind you I don't have a wife or kids... This is all a thought exercise.

[wango]

No, I hear you and I’m taking an extreme stance. Believe it or not I don’t think my wife would want me to, but if we had kids I’m sure it would be an entirely different decision (just like having a gun in our home).

[Fluidic Kimbo]

ABut I wouldn’t let my pride to allow me to break a law or steal, just me. Again not passing judgement or saying I’m right or wrong about desperate times.

If I was a dead child transitioning into the afterlife... walking in through the pearly gates to the admittance desk, and the guy on the desk is like "By the way your father only had to steal $100,000 from his boss for your treatment, but he didn't and so now you're dead and that's why you're here". And I would be like, "Well what does it mean now that he didn't steal the money?", and the guy would be like, "Well your dad gets to keep his dignity and integrity, but you've lost your future -- your hopes and dreams and aspirations and hobbies are all now meaningless because you're dead -- but your father can lift his head high when he walks down the street". I'd be like "Well that doesn't sound very fair... I mean he gets to continue his life and have pride in himself, but I have nothing, I've lost my life, I'm dead.", and the guy would be like "Yeah I know, your father's a degenerate prick -- but don't worry we have him lined up to have a stroke.".

[wango]

If I was a dead child transitioning into the afterlife... walking in through the pearly gates to the admittance desk, and the guy on the desk is like "By the way your father only had to steal $100,000 from his boss for your treatment, but he didn't and so now you're dead and that's why you're here". And I would be like, "Well what does it mean now that he didn't steal the money?", and the guy would be like, "Well your dad gets to keep his dignity and integrity, but you've lost your future -- your hopes and dreams and aspirations and hobbies are all now meaningless because you're dead -- but your father can lift his head high when he walks down the street". I'd be like "Well that doesn't sound very fair... I mean he gets to continue his life and have pride in himself, but I have nothing, I've lost my life, I'm dead.", and the guy would be like "Yeah I know, your father's a degenerate prick -- but don't worry we have him lined up to have a stroke.".

You are correct, you’re situation that you posted included a child & I don’t have nor wanted the experience of that. So my response really didn’t fit your post.