Income Protection

**Fluidic Kimbo** · 06-20-2022, 01:53 PM

For those of us here who've fallen down in life before, and gotten back on our feet, we like to have assurances that we'll be okay if life goes wrong again.

Of course there's no such thing as certainty in life -- even though some people seem to be addicted to certainty in life -- but nonetheless we can sacrifice a little of what we have now to try minimise the damage in the future if life falls apart again.

At the moment in my current job, I have health insurance, life assurance and income protection, and it's all paid for by my employer. So if I get in a car crash today and can't work for 7 months, or if I get diagnosed with cancer next week, I'll still have something like 80% of my normal income, while all the medical stuff will be paid for out of the health insurance.

Unfortunately there's no income protection available that keeps you safe if you make a bad mistake in work and get fired. But there are some countries in which the government unemployment payment is very high -- for example if you lose your job in Luxembourg then the government gives you 86% of your normal wage until you find another job.

I have a female friend in Germany who really fell apart after her divorce, and right now she's attending a day clinic Monday - Friday for depression where they have all sorts of therapies all day (horse therapy, sport therapy), and she still receives a decent chunk of her normal income (I didn't ask how much but in Germany it's something like 60 - 80 % I think).

What kinds of income protection and other insurances / assurances do people here have?

**wango** · 06-20-2022, 03:05 PM

Before retirement both the wife and I maxed out whatever we could for disability insurance. Life insurance & malpractice above & beyond what was provided for work, car, home & particularly liability insurance maxed out & of course savings for loss of income. There’s an argument about being overprotected, however that argument goes down the toilet when shit happens.

**JaneDoe** · 06-20-2022, 06:45 PM

It's blurry!

**Iranon** · 06-20-2022, 08:47 PM

Life is simple and it never changes.

Live below your means. Save and prepare for a hard future because that is almost always what will come.

Or you can be a parasite like many and look to a government to save you. Good luck.

**Honkey_Kong** · 06-20-2022, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by Iranon

Life is simple and it never changes.

Live below your means. Save and prepare for a hard future because that is almost always what will come.

Or you can be a parasite like many and look to a government to save you. Good luck.

That's easier said than done these days. A lot of people were living paycheque to paycheque with a modest apartment, utilities, groceries and gas pretty much cleaning them out. I don't know where you are, but out here even a 2-bedroom apartment in a not-so-good area will set you back $2200-2800 a month.

**Ol_Wolf** · 06-21-2022, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by Honkey_Kong

That's easier said than done these days. A lot of people were living paycheque to paycheque with a modest apartment, utilities, groceries and gas pretty much cleaning them out. I don't know where you are, but out here even a 2-bedroom apartment in a not-so-good area will set you back $2200-2800 a month.

That is almost twice my mortgage for 3 acres and a 3600 Sq foot home. You need to move.

Income protection comes with indispensable work. Find a job nobody else wants to do that is needed and become an expert and you will always have work. Otherwise it is all up to savings and it helps being dual income. When I was younger I tried the lottery ticket method, but that didn't work too well. Went through some rough spots financially. Dealt with big hits on credit. All things change though and now I am in the 820's for Credit history. Banks will not loan money to you if you need it, they only loan money to people who really don't need it!

**Honkey_Kong** · 06-21-2022, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Ol_Wolf

That is almost twice my mortgage for 3 acres and a 3600 Sq foot home. You need to move.

Income protection comes with indispensable work. Find a job nobody else wants to do that is needed and become an expert and you will always have work. Otherwise it is all up to savings and it helps being dual income. When I was younger I tried the lottery ticket method, but that didn't work too well. Went through some rough spots financially. Dealt with big hits on credit. All things change though and now I am in the 820's for Credit history. Banks will not loan money to you if you need it, they only loan money to people who really don't need it!

If everybody decided to go move over to your neck of the woods, the housing prices there would skyrocket. And moving isn't always an option for a lot of people.

**Mooseman33** · 06-21-2022, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by Ol_Wolf

That is almost twice my mortgage for 3 acres and a 3600 Sq foot home. You need to move.

Income protection comes with indispensable work. Find a job nobody else wants to do that is needed and become an expert and you will always have work. Otherwise it is all up to savings and it helps being dual income. When I was younger I tried the lottery ticket method, but that didn't work too well. Went through some rough spots financially. Dealt with big hits on credit. All things change though and now I am in the 820's for Credit history. Banks will not loan money to you if you need it, they only loan money to people who really don't need it!

u live in michigan. they should pay u to live in that dump of a place.

**Fluidic Kimbo** · 06-21-2022, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Iranon

Or you can be a parasite like many and look to a government to save you.

I'm glad you made this point in order to move us on to the juicy part of the discussion.

Independence and self-reliance are good traits in a person.

I think a person should be able to change the oil in their car. I think a person should be able to clean their own fish tank. I think a person should wash their own clothes rather than use a laundrette, and clean their own house with a mop and vacuum, and change their own bed sheets. I think a person should be able to do things for themselves by themselves, and that a person should be able to rely on themselves. Self-reliance is an admirable personality trait in a person.

But there are limits to my ideals of independence and self-sufficiency. If you're chopping carrots one day and you slice your finger badly, I think you should go to the hospital to get a nurse to sew it properly for you. If you have 12 radiators heating your house, and only the radiators on the bottom floor are getting hot even though you've spent 3 days bleeding them and balancing them, then maybe call a plumber who knows what he's doing.

It's cool to be a jack of all trades -- I actually consider myself one, I mean I'm not a mechanic but I replaced the head gasket in my Toyota by myself. I'm not a plumber but I can balance and bleed radiators. I'm not an electrician but I can wire a plug.

But sometimes you have to be sane and just place a limit on your ideals of self-sufficiency. Any one of us can get diagnosed with cancer in July of this year, and so if you're the unlucky one, adjust your standard of independence and self-reliance to your current life circumstances. Right now I'm willing and able to work, and I pay income tax so I contribute to my local economy, but I know I'm not invincible. I might lose my willingness to work, or my ability to work -- it might take me a long time to recover or I might not recover at all. I spent a few years of my life in a homeless hostel so I'm not oblivious to how life can go wrong. If life goes to shit then I'm content to live off handouts (well actually I don't know if you can call them 'handouts' if you actually purchased insurance beforehand).

I couldn't live in a place like the USA where you've to pay massive money for health services and education. If I have kids in the future, I want them to be able to get a 3rd level education for free (or at least very cheaply). I live in N. Ireland right now where health care and prescribed medicine is all free, and so I hope in the future to live in a country that has similar health services.

In my current employment, my employer has me covered with health insurance, life assurance and income protection. But if I move on to another job in the future -- perhaps in a different country -- then I will sure as fuck purchase these products by myself. There are lots of countries where you don't even need health insurance -- but it's nice to have just so that you can stay in a private hospital room with big soft pillows and a TV with Netflix. I'm not fussed about life assurance coz I don't have anyone depending on me right now. As for income protection, well I would like to retain 100% of my income if I become unwilling/unable to work. I'll pay for that insurance now while I'm healthy and happy.

Countries that provide free health care, and free (or very cheap) education are places where it's much easier to go "from rags to riches". If you're born poor in the USA then you'll most likely stay poor. But if you're born poor in Norway or Germany then you have a very decent chance of making a comfortable living later in life.

I'm very much in favour of "generous welfare" countries. If Norway wasn't fucking freezing and dark all day in Winter then I'd very strongly consider moving there.

But anyway, I want to live in a country where:
(1) The government will help me out if life goes wrong
(2) On top of the government help, I can sacrifice some of my salary now to be even more comfortable in difficult times (e.g. pay £100 per month for 90% income protection).