Dog Ban in the UK -- XL Bully

[Fluidic Kimbo]

Back in 1991, as a result of human deaths caused by dogs, a few breeds of dog were banned:

* Pit Bull Terrier
* Japanese Tosa
* Dogo Argentino
* Fila Brasileiro

So now we fast-forward to the current day. The breed XL Bully is still allowed in the UK. Here's some statistics:

* Less than 1% of dogs in the UK are XL Bullies
* 70% of humans killed by dogs in the UK are killed by XL Bullies

I haven't seen a statistic for what percentage of XL Bullies in the UK have attacked a person, but I reckon it's very low, probably something like 1%.

Now the first thing I'll say here is: It's not difficult to play around with factual statistics to manipulate people's thinking. People have written books about how to manipulate people with factual statistics.

Looking at the two factual statistics so far though, it would seem that if the XL Bully were to be banned in the UK, then dog-human fatalities would drop by 70%. That's quite a drop.

So let's make a comparison here with another real-life scenario: 99% of terrorists are Muslim, but less than 1% of Muslims are terrorist. So in theory, if a country were to be able to keep all Muslims out, then it would succeed in keeping out 99% of terrorists. But of course, none of the developed countries in the world have a Muslim ban.

Also XL Bullies are different to Muslims in two ways:
(1) Muslims are people (XL Bullies are animals)
(2) A person can falsely report their identity (A dog can't lie about its breed)

Breeders of the XL Bully argue that a dog's aggressiveness is not because of its breed, but rather because of its upbringing. So I think the argument here is that if a dog is vicious towards people, then it's not because of behavioural genetics, but rather because of how the owner treated the dog. My own take on this is that behavioural genetics does play a role in dog behaviour. I think that a poodle will probably behave like a poodle, and that a rottweiler will probably behave like a rottweiler. Of course though, I think that you can make a poodle vicious, and also I believe that you can have a placid rottweiler.

But if you want to train a dog to be placid and timid, you'll have a lot more ease of success if the dog is a poodle. If you want to train an attack dog, you'll have a lot more ease of success to train a rottweiler.

Breeders of the XL Bully argue that any breed of dog can become vicious and attack a person. But even if we ignore for a moment:
* Behaviour genetics
* How the dog is treated

There is still another thing to consider:
* The size of the dog's oral cavity
* The force of the dog's bite

Making a comparison to another real-life situation, some people say "Guns don't kill people, people kill people". The argument here is that the problem is the homicidal intention of the person, rather than the availability of a gun. The thing is though, if a person with homicidal intentions has access to a gun, they can do a lot more damage a lot more quickly than a person who doesn't have access to a gun.

Is it fair to ban the XL Bully in the UK if less than 1% of XL Bullies have attacked a person?

[almostgone]

If you don't socialize an animal....any animal that's part of a household, you need your ass kicked. If you chain an animal to a tree and expect anything other than anxious/aggressive behavior you are a double dumbass and need to spend some time chained to a tree

I've owned/been involved with English mastiffs since the early '90s. Our biggest was 280 lb + and an excellent watchdog without being overly aggressive until necessary. In total I have had over 24 mastiffs over the decades and never had any problem .....socialize, socialize, socialize.

Small dogs are more prone to biting, they just usually don't do as much damage.

[almostgone]

There are a few bad dogs due to the environment in which they were raised. However, there's an assload of irresponsible, negligent dog owners out there.

As soon as I get healed up and the wife makes her mind up about her a knee replacement, she wants another English mastiff, Boerbel, and a Dogue De Bordeaux.

[teedoff]

Just another case of blaming the non human aspect of a bad situation. Much like the gun debate, dogs are only as good or bad as their owners. Don't blame a dog if it wasn't properly trained and socialized. Dogs are by nature pack animals and their humans are their pack.

Having said that, there are some breeds I wouldn't personally own and have around small children, if I had kids Just because of how strong those breeds are. Even a playful nip or movement could inflict some serious damage on a small child.

[stocky121]

The xl bully that killed the man that’s in the news today is not far from where I live. Now if it done it to a fully grown man what could it do to a child?

Having said that, I think other people have hit the nail on the head, much like humans it’s due to how you bring that animal up.
And just like humans no matter how good you raise them, there is a very very small chance that it could just snap.

[Test Monsterone]

My response is no - unless these dogs have been genetically bred to be aggressive. If the dog has been de-domesticated to behave more like a wolf, for example, then yeah I think it should be banned. We don't just let people have wolves, do we? We don't allow tigers on the streets, or lions... so a big dog that has been bred to be vicious (genetically), is going to be a problem. But my intuition tells me it's more that some people get these dogs to train them for aggression or fighting. In this case, I don't think it's the dog's fault. A chihuahua may well be even more aggressive, but nobody is getting killed by chihuahuas... I hope.

Btw have you guys heard about the lady who was killed by a pack of weiner dogs? What a way to go.

[almostgone]

My response is no - unless these dogs have been genetically bred to be aggressive. If the dog has been de-domesticated to behave more like a wolf, for example, then yeah I think it should be banned. We don't just let people have wolves, do we? We don't allow tigers on the streets, or lions... so a big dog that has been bred to be vicious (genetically), is going to be a problem. But my intuition tells me it's more that some people get these dogs to train them for aggression or fighting. In this case, I don't think it's the dog's fault. A chihuahua may well be even more aggressive, but nobody is getting killed by chihuahuas... I hope.

Btw have you guys heard about the lady who was killed by a pack of weiner dogs? What a way to go.

Exactly, my post about smaller dogs being more prone to attack wasn't meant to imply smaller dogs are more dangerous.

I'm a dog person. Put in a room full of people and if there's a dog in the room, I'll be with the dog whether it's a teacup Chihuahua or a Press Canario.

[lovbyts]

I really dont have an opinion, Im not much of a dog person. My cats have never attacked anyone.

[Test Monsterone]

I really dont have an opinion, Im not much of a dog person. My cats have never attacked anyone.

We got 1 cat, he's the best. We can take him on a leash around the neighborhood when he doesn't want to be an asshole. That grey one looking at the camera in your pic looks like he has mouse or rat ears, no? They're rounded.

[lovbyts]

We got 1 cat, he's the best. We can take him on a leash around the neighborhood when he doesn't want to be an asshole. That grey one looking at the camera in your pic looks like he has mouse or rat ears, no? They're rounded.

American Cat curl ears, first discovered in California in the early 90s.
Yeah the big gray on dark calico are brothers. They arent exactly small cats either. lol
They all like to play with/torment my ball python and want me to take him out to play with them. LOL