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  1. #1
    saboudian's Avatar
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    Any Americans move to Europe?

    For a couple years now, I've been thinking about moving to Europe or something along those lines after I get my degree, just to see the world I suppose, do something different while I'm still young and I don't have to worry about kids or any other responsibilities like that to tie me down.

    Right now I'm a 2nd year student at MSU (junior status according to credit total) and I have a 3.48 gpa in chemical engineering, so i'm pretty confident that I can pretty much find a job any where.

    MSU has a study abroad program where they help set things up if you want to spend a semester overseas somewhere. There are oppurtunities where I can go somewhere(pretty much anywhere) and take a few classes there, or what I'm really looking for is going somewhere where i can get an intership because of how important experience is to a recent egr grad. There's a couple meetings next week here for internships abroad.

    One is in Turkey(probably istanbul) and I don't know what i'd be doing, but MSU would set up housing and all that logistical stuff. Problem is that its not a paying internship, so it would cost me $3500 or so to spend the summer there and I'd be basically volunteering 35-40 hrs a week. Here's a LINK to more info about the Turkey internship.

    The other one is in London. They would set us up in 'flats' which i guess are like really small apartments, but i could care less since it comes with a kitchen. And thats about all I know about that so far. I'm pretty interested in this one, but don't know much about it yet. Here's a LINK to some info about it. The bummer again is that this internship would also be unpaid, so i'd be spending $3500 to spend my summer there volunteering 35-40 hrs a week working.

    Other than that, If i don't get an internship overseas, I could get an internship at Chrysler(in the paint shop probably) or my brother-in-law(ME) works for the navy in Maryland so I could probaly get one there also.


    Anyways just trying to lay out a couple of the options that I have, I don't know anyone who has done this and I don't know anyone outside the US, so i'm just interested in hearing how people on here went about doing this, and ways they wish they would have gone. Any info would be immensely appreciated.

    Oh yeah, and I have mentioned this to my parents before and they both think I'm crazy. My mom is actually scared of me going to europe because of anti-american sentiment. Of course my mom was also scared when I competed in a BB competition in a lil bit of shady area close to detroit, even though i told her that I doubt anything would happen since i doubt anyone would stir up any trouble at a BB competiton of all places. So if you got any ideas to help my mom settle down, that'd help too.
    Last edited by saboudian; 11-13-2003 at 12:32 PM.

  2. #2
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    I spent a summer overseas (not terribly long, i know) and was disappointed by the realization that most of the western world has truly become homogenized. Once you adjusted to the little particulars of the region, it scarcely seemed any different than the summer I spent in DC. Other people over there as well echoed that sentiment. In the same way that L.A. and NYC are very much the same when you cut through it (the stereotypes remain vastly different, but the essence is no longer all that different). However, I'd encourage you to spend a semester abroad to see if this holds true for you...in my instance, both were done in an academic setting, so that may have been why they all seemed so similar, but there was no question the cities shared much of the same basic essence either here or across the pond.

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    My girlfriend studied abroad last semester in Florence, Italy. She said it was the best thing she's ever done. I went out to visit her for spring break and I'm pissed that I never had the opportunity to do it myself. I would recommend it to anyone because there is so much to see besides the US. I'm going to Europe in June to travel for the summer visiting each country. Of course I'm going to Austria to see Arnold's old place! By the way I remember that the majority of the students that were at the school in Florence were from MSU. Maybe their not doing it this year but I would check into it some more.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGreen
    I spent a summer overseas (not terribly long, i know) and was disappointed by the realization that most of the western world has truly become homogenized. Once you adjusted to the little particulars of the region, it scarcely seemed any different than the summer I spent in DC. Other people over there as well echoed that sentiment. In the same way that L.A. and NYC are very much the same when you cut through it (the stereotypes remain vastly different, but the essence is no longer all that different). However, I'd encourage you to spend a semester abroad to see if this holds true for you...in my instance, both were done in an academic setting, so that may have been why they all seemed so similar, but there was no question the cities shared much of the same basic essence either here or across the pond.
    Hey BG, where would you recommend to go? I thought about going to a 3rd world country cause I thought that would be interesting. Especially since you can live on like 5 bucks a day. Obviously if i can't get a paid internship(which is likely if i go through MSU) then that would be a huge plus cuz its hard to go anywhere for less than 3 grand, and places like Italy cost mucho bucks, like close to 5 g's i believe plus living expenses.

    Thought about going to mid east too, but i think all msu sponsored trips have been canceled since last year and i doubt they will be rescheduling anytime soon.
    Last edited by saboudian; 11-13-2003 at 01:34 PM.

  5. #5
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    I studied abroad, and I would recommend it to anyone. I cannot speak to BG's disappointment, but perhaps he was looking in different places. It was a life-shaping experience for me, being able to walk in the midst of different cultures.

    I would recommend London, from the two you mentioned. Turkey is a third world country, and while the culture is likely more pure there, I doubt you will have much fun. London is like NYC - big, dirty, densly populated, a cultural hub. You already speak English, so that is a plus. Also, London is a short trip to many other countries, like Ireland, Scotland, France (take the high speed train to Paris), Luxemburg, Belgium, and Holland. Any overseas experience is worth the price IMO.

    Germany, if you can stand the sound of the language, would probably be a good place for you. They are known for engineering, and it would be much cheaper to live.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Testify
    I studied abroad, and I would recommend it to anyone. I cannot speak to BG's disappointment, but perhaps he was looking in different places. It was a life-shaping experience for me, being able to walk in the midst of different cultures.

    I would recommend London, from the two you mentioned. Turkey is a third world country, and while the culture is likely more pure there, I doubt you will have much fun. London is like NYC - big, dirty, densly populated, a cultural hub. You already speak English, so that is a plus. Also, London is a short trip to many other countries, like Ireland, Scotland, France (take the high speed train to Paris), Luxemburg, Belgium, and Holland. Any overseas experience is worth the price IMO.

    Germany, if you can stand the sound of the language, would probably be a good place for you. They are known for engineering, and it would be much cheaper to live.
    Good point you bring up about London. MSU can basically send you anywhere, but you have to either take some classes there or an internship, but the internships are few and seem so far to be all unpaid. Of course I'd rather take an internship over classes if possible, but I could go either way probably.

    Germany seems like it'd be cool, but I only speak English, but I'm hopin everyone else speaks english.

  7. #7
    Testify's Avatar
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    They do. At least, most of them do.

  8. #8
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    C'mon now, really every American loves America so much that no one has moved outside of it? C'mon where is everyone's sense of curiosity? I thought there'd be at least a few people who have done it.

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    Ok, bro, you got me. I've been to Italy, Amsterdan, London, Kuwait, and of course Canada and Mexico. Going to Uganda this summer to work in a clinic. So If you are looking for suggestions I say shoot for Italy, beautiful place, but hey, I'm partial
    Last edited by rambo; 11-14-2003 at 09:41 AM.

  10. #10
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    Ya, Italy would be sweet, looks to be expensive as hell though. Rambo how did you get yourself set up to work in Uganda for the summer? Through school?

  11. #11
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    Nah. I got nothing better to do. Might as well do something to help someone else.

    Edit: This does NOT mean that I am anywhere near becoming a nice person. I'm still an ass.

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    I truly love London... everything about it is awesome. But it is one heck of an expensive place to live in!

    Paris is also pretty cool, and isn't that much of a culture shock for Americans (Parisians claim to dislike Americans yet they worship the ground you walk on... go figure...)

    Personally being in the north I'd aim for somewhere with a nice climate...

    South of France, Italy, Greece, Australia or N-Z, or if you want a real culture shock then there is the Asian countries or the former east-bloc countries like Russia.

    (Don't knock Russia and company btw! Things are getting a lot better there in the big cities like Moscow and St-Petersberg and money is coming in big time... )

    Where ever you choose, you will not regret it... travel and living abroad can only open your mind to the fact there is a world outside your borders.

    Red

  13. #13
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    I hear ya Red. Thanks for the advice.

    I'm not too fond of hearing how expensive london is, which is why i was hoping i could get a paid internship cuz i know i could go through at least $150 every week livin it up in london added onto the intial $3500. But as expensive as it is, if i know i'll be doing something worthwhile as an intern i think i'll go, but if i'm filing papers 40 hrs a week for free, forget it.

    And surprisingly, you have to actually apply to go and get letters of recomendation and other stuff like that which surprised the hell out of me, the fact that you're paying like 5 grand to work there for free over the summer time 40hrs a week, that would be a clue to me that the student was seriously dedicated.
    Last edited by saboudian; 11-14-2003 at 09:34 PM.

  14. #14
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    Fmr East Bloc is the best...Latvia..Romania etc etc..cheap, realitively untouched my the Mc/Nike/MTV virus that plauges the world. I live in Italy (well Sicily..quite different!)..It still has its soul bespite the main landers, the Frogs and the Mid Easterners selling chep toys at the markets. Southern Italy (Calabria, Puglia) are excellent regions. Baltic and Bohemian states also excellent places to sew some oats, experience some culture but not be too far removed from civilized people. My all time favs however are Latvia (Riga is the bomb!) and Macedonia..Serb women rock!

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    Quote Originally Posted by saboudian
    Thought about going to mid east too, but i think all msu sponsored trips have been canceled since last year and i doubt they will be rescheduling anytime soon.
    Haha - look me up if ya do! If you get one of the oil tycoons to sponsor you in the ME you can make a shit load of money off them. But then again... an American working in the Middle East right now as a chemical engineer might rub wrong on the resume!

  16. #16
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    I agree that Turkey may not stand out to be much interesting/fun, and the whole third world country thing, and plus, it's a little too much to the east, and you can never be too careful with all those problems in the middle east.

    I've been to England, France (only Paris), Switzerland and Sweden. I'm not sure what other country you can go to, but any one of those four are good. England for obvious reasons, you can speak english, and like Testify mentioned, quick access to other countries. France is also great, people there can be nice (yeah believe it or not), and if you stay in a smaller city around Paris, it could be very beautiful. I don't know if you can go to other countries as well, but Sweden is VERY nice. I know the weather can suck, but during the summer it can be pretty nice. It's a clean and safe place to be, and there are some fun places to go, and lots of site seeing. Although, it's not a place to live long term, that's for sure (that's why it's great for summer get away). Same thing for Swiss I think. It's nice and quiet, clean place. I was there for over a week and spent some time in a smaller city in the mountains, VERY beautiful place to be. Amazing sites and very peaceful (IMO).

    Isn't there anyway to make money where you are? I mean volunteering for 35-40 hours is pretty intense. Anyway to lower that, and pick up a job on the side? Or any other way you can think of making money where you go?! Maybe you can be a temp. personal trainer Or maybe a male giggalo (sp?), haha, just kidding.

    Anywho, it's kind of a tough decision, and you should look into it as much as possible before choosing.

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    I was thinking for making money you could be one of those street performers. There were so many in Florence and I had the thought of something I could do. Everyone in Italy was small...I mean small so hey why not entertain them with a little bodybuilding. Get a small platform and pose for an hour. Besides making a few bucks I'm sure you'll get a few numbers from the little Italian sweeties looking for a real man.....and they are HOT!!!

  18. #18
    saboudian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BamaSlamma
    Fmr East Bloc is the best...Latvia..Romania etc etc..cheap, realitively untouched my the Mc/Nike/MTV virus that plauges the world. I live in Italy (well Sicily..quite different!)..It still has its soul bespite the main landers, the Frogs and the Mid Easterners selling chep toys at the markets. Southern Italy (Calabria, Puglia) are excellent regions. Baltic and Bohemian states also excellent places to sew some oats, experience some culture but not be too far removed from civilized people. My all time favs however are Latvia (Riga is the bomb!) and Macedonia..Serb women rock!
    The only stipulation for studying abroad through MSU is you have to either get an internship or take classes there(at least 6 credits I beleive). You can generally go just about anywhere in the world where there is a university, but there aren't many places you can go where there is an internship available(which will 99% be unpaid). I'm hopin for an internship so that may limit my options a bit, because it'd get very expensive if I'd have to add tuition to my expenses(and they make you take stupid classes that don't count towards your degree). Plus it would be international experience.

    I really never thought about going to the eastern bloc countries. I'm pretty sure I could go to Ukraine but not sure about Latvia,Macedonia, or Serbia.

    As far as Italy goes, I've heard alot of great things about Italy, and there's actually a few places in Italy they offer to live(none in sicily i think though). Probably the only downside about Italy is that its the most expensive, I beleive the initial cost would be like $4500-5000 or so, but I would still love to see Italy.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior
    Haha - look me up if ya do! If you get one of the oil tycoons to sponsor you in the ME you can make a shit load of money off them. But then again... an American working in the Middle East right now as a chemical engineer might rub wrong on the resume!
    Damn, for some reason Petroleum engineering never crossed my mind, but that is a good idea, cuz i'm sure the money would be very good, but fearing for my life every day is kinda a bad downside and the girls don't look that good.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terinox
    I agree that Turkey may not stand out to be much interesting/fun, and the whole third world country thing, and plus, it's a little too much to the east, and you can never be too careful with all those problems in the middle east.

    I've been to England, France (only Paris), Switzerland and Sweden. I'm not sure what other country you can go to, but any one of those four are good. England for obvious reasons, you can speak english, and like Testify mentioned, quick access to other countries. France is also great, people there can be nice (yeah believe it or not), and if you stay in a smaller city around Paris, it could be very beautiful. I don't know if you can go to other countries as well, but Sweden is VERY nice. I know the weather can suck, but during the summer it can be pretty nice. It's a clean and safe place to be, and there are some fun places to go, and lots of site seeing. Although, it's not a place to live long term, that's for sure (that's why it's great for summer get away). Same thing for Swiss I think. It's nice and quiet, clean place. I was there for over a week and spent some time in a smaller city in the mountains, VERY beautiful place to be. Amazing sites and very peaceful (IMO).

    Isn't there anyway to make money where you are? I mean volunteering for 35-40 hours is pretty intense. Anyway to lower that, and pick up a job on the side? Or any other way you can think of making money where you go?! Maybe you can be a temp. personal trainer Or maybe a male giggalo (sp?), haha, just kidding.

    Anywho, it's kind of a tough decision, and you should look into it as much as possible before choosing.
    Thanks for the suggestions. My uncle went to sweden and from the sound of it, it didn't seem like there was much to do there, but this was 20 years ago.

    Ya, the 35-40 hrs a week thing really hurts, especially if they just stick you in some shitty job(I will not go if I find this is the case). There's a meeting tommorrow about it, so i'll be sure to check it out. As far as money on the side goes, I don't know what the hell to do. I can't make any money during the school year, so i might even have to loan like a grand from my parents to help pay for it, which sucks cuz i wouldn't be able to pay them for another year. And I'd be dead broke that entire follow school year, so that means I wouldn't be able to buy any supps at all during the school year, including whey protein.

    Its almost like a catch-22. If I go there, I might be a bit short on money and not have quite as much fun. If I did find a way to pick up a part-time job, that would kinda suck because then I'd be working more and wouldn't have as much time to enjoy it there.

    IDK, its gonna be a huge sacrifice to go there, but it also could be a huge sacrifice not to go there. I really would like to move out of the States for a few years after college though, so I think this would be my only oppurtunity to get my feet wet, cuz I'd be lost if i just moved to europe straight out of college, especially since its hard to search for jobs internationally.

  21. #21
    saboudian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catamount
    I was thinking for making money you could be one of those street performers. There were so many in Florence and I had the thought of something I could do. Everyone in Italy was small...I mean small so hey why not entertain them with a little bodybuilding. Get a small platform and pose for an hour. Besides making a few bucks I'm sure you'll get a few numbers from the little Italian sweeties looking for a real man.....and they are HOT!!!
    It might sound stupid now, but once I get there it might actually not be a bad idea. I am gonna diet down to a lean 185-190 before I go there, cuz I'm definitely gonna be lookin for some international luvin

    Oh and another bad side of going there for the summer would be that I obviously wouldn't be able to compete this summer, but I probably wouldn't even be able to work out over the summer which hurts.

  22. #22
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    BTW guys I really do appreciate all your input, it really is invaluable to me. Keep the suggestions coming.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by saboudian
    It might sound stupid now, but once I get there it might actually not be a bad idea. I am gonna diet down to a lean 185-190 before I go there, cuz I'm definitely gonna be lookin for some international luvin

    Oh and another bad side of going there for the summer would be that I obviously wouldn't be able to compete this summer, but I probably wouldn't even be able to work out over the summer which hurts.
    I have the same dilemma. I want to move there after my May competition but I'm so afraid of losing my size. If you figure a way to keep it over there let me know, haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terinox
    England for obvious reasons, you can speak english, and like Testify mentioned, quick access to other countries. France is also great, people there can be nice (yeah believe it or not), and if you stay in a smaller city around Paris, it could be very beautiful.
    He he he maybe he speaks english, but in some parts of the UK they sure don't!!! Been to Liverpool? Daaam bro! That ain't english!

    Been all over North Wales (absolutely beautifull! I am in love with Wales), Ayshire (also beautifull) Glasgow and Paysley Scotland, Liverpool, Nottingham, Essex, Brighton, London and even the wacky and tacky Skegness (ohhh yeah!).

    Of all those places in the UK, London would be my only choice for long term work study and fun. London rocks...no questions about it.

    As for France, people are friendly almost everywhere EXCEPT Paris... I do not want to generalise but many of the Parisians I've met were unpleasant and arrogant. But you get out of Paris and man-oh-man are these people friendly. Head down towards Marseilles and get ready for some wicked fun, awesome weather and real nice (and nice looking!) people. Nancy was also a nice place.

    Red

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    Quote Originally Posted by saboudian
    Damn, for some reason Petroleum engineering never crossed my mind, but that is a good idea, cuz i'm sure the money would be very good, but fearing for my life every day is kinda a bad downside and the girls don't look that good.
    Don't knock the woman of the ME until you been here! Sri Lankans, Phillipines, Morocco, India, Lebanese, Egyptians ... there are some real hotties from many different countries that work in the various countries in the Middle East.

    But yeah - the whole war thing makes adds a touch of danger to it... especially being an American or Brit.

  26. #26
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    So warrior, basically all the women in the ME that aren't from the ME are hot?

    Ok so there was an info meeting today, so i have a test to study for but i want to type this down before i forgot.

    Everything is done through capa or eusa, I'm sure they have websites so i'll check em this weekend when i have more time. You submit your resume and they basically hook you up and supposedly 95% of the time they get you a good internship on the first try, hell it should be if you're doing it for free. About the unpaid thing, he said it was hard to get a work permit or something like that so thats why it has to be unpaid.

    So i'd be working full time for 4 days a week for free, and they give u that extra day to basically have fun. I'd also have to take 6 credits and write some bs papers about the experienece while i'm there also.

    So its gonna be $3100 to live in a flat with 4 others or $3400 to live in a homestay, but the homestay includes 2 meals(ya i know 2 whole meals), but I don't think there's any way i want to live in a homestay. Plus about a grand for airfaire, plus food money, plus tuition(which sux cuz the credits won't even count for me). So he said the avg student ends up spending like 5g's total+ tuition, so i'm sure i'll be close to 6g's cuz i'm gonna go crazy out there. London is always one of the 5 most expensive cities to live in supposedly also.

    There are some scholarships i can apply for, which i will. But i don't think my chances are great since most ppl are in buisness which is ez as fuck so they're gonna have a sky high gpa, and i know thats all they look at.

    The trip would be in total 12 weeks. They also offer internships in dublin but you have to live in a homestay if you go there, and i don't think it would be as exciting as london, but i suppose i'll keep it in the back of my mind but london looks awfully good right now. Of course Dublin would be cheaper though.

    Ok i need to get back to studying, i'll probably check back later if i remember something since i'm gonna pull an all nighter studying.

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    Bro, check out Australia!

    I just remembered that they offer "Student-Work-Travel" visas if you're under 30.

    It's basically a work visa for traveling students valid for up to 3 or 6 months I think, which means you're allowed to get a job while you're there.

    Cool thing is that you can live in a hostel (which is cheap) until you got a job, and then you get yourself an appartment.

    Of course it doesn't give you creds of stuff like that, but the flip side is that you still get an awesome experience and only pay for your airline, hostel and food, no money goes to some company that hooks you up.

    Just a suggestion of course... I was too old when I found out about this Visa I would have gone over in a heartbeat!

    Red

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Ketchup
    Bro, check out Australia!

    I just remembered that they offer "Student-Work-Travel" visas if you're under 30.

    It's basically a work visa for traveling students valid for up to 3 or 6 months I think, which means you're allowed to get a job while you're there.

    Cool thing is that you can live in a hostel (which is cheap) until you got a job, and then you get yourself an appartment.

    Of course it doesn't give you creds of stuff like that, but the flip side is that you still get an awesome experience and only pay for your airline, hostel and food, no money goes to some company that hooks you up.

    Just a suggestion of course... I was too old when I found out about this Visa I would have gone over in a heartbeat!

    Red
    I'm almost stuck on this London thing now, but I'm still trying to keep an open mind. Do you know of any ways to find out more about this australia work visa, cuz hell if i don't go there this summer i might go there next summer cuz i'll be broke and i'd go if i could get a paying internship.

    Man, my resume is gonna look sweet after college, if i get an internship in london on there plus one in aussie land the next year plus i do a couple years of research on the side. And on top of all of that, I get to have fun. These next couple years of college are gonna rock.

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    Well, as you may guess I am 500% biased towards London I love that town! If you can go there, do it! You will not regret it.

    I'll check out the Australia thing when I get home I got the papers there (sitting on my bed in a hotel room right now). All the info is available on the web, I think I got it off the Aussie consulate website.

    Red

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Ketchup
    Well, as you may guess I am 500% biased towards London I love that town! If you can go there, do it! You will not regret it.

    I'll check out the Australia thing when I get home I got the papers there (sitting on my bed in a hotel room right now). All the info is available on the web, I think I got it off the Aussie consulate website.

    Red
    Thanks for the help red, much much appreciated.

    BTW, how is the weather in London during the summer? The guy said it was a bit rainy and cool, not exactly my ideal conditions, but I'm still gettin excited about goin, just as long as I can somehow get the money situation in order.

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    Well, people claim that London is rainy all the time... yet every single time I've been there the weather was fine. Cloudy sometimes, rain here and there, but nothing worse than what we get here in the north-east.

    And even when it was rainy, it was only for a few hours... never had full 2-3 days of non stop rain like we sometimes (too often!) get here.

    It was a little cooler than here in Montreal, but then we are used to extremes here (as I am sure you are in Michigan too). They get summer days in the mid 20's (celcius) where we get summer days in the low to mid 30's here.

    Same for winter, I spent a few new years there and temps were in the -2 to +10 range daily... was so strange to see green grass when I landed at heathrow last december I had left Montreal with a foot of snow and -22C, landed in london in light rain and +8C. Was downright balmy for me! Was walking around with my spring jacket wide open (people all wintered up were looking at me funny ).

    I may have been lucky every time I've been there but I think the weather conditions in London get a real bad rap...

    Red

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    Initial cost of moving to Italy is not that bad...hey join NATO or the UN and make the world gov'ts pay for it!!

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by BamaSlamma
    Initial cost of moving to Italy is not that bad...hey join NATO or the UN and make the world gov'ts pay for it!!
    Is it a tough transition to make? i.e is it hard to get a work permit?(I don't think it'd be hard to get a work permit anywhere with a degree, but gotta ask). How hard is it to get around and get along without knowing the language? How would you suggest movin to Italy if you don't know anyone over there? I wouldn't even know where to start, so i have alot of questions about how(or the best way) of moving to a place like Italy when I know so little.

    What were the biggest problems you had when moving there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by saboudian
    So warrior, basically all the women in the ME that aren't from the ME are hot?
    Actually I have seen some that really are! But they are always covered up in black - everything but their eyes... and sometimes their ayes are too! It's kind of a scary sight to see them driving

    The main problem with woman from the middle east (strong Muslims) is you can't really "date" them. They are kind of off limits. I know some who have but it is pretty much not a wise thing to do unless you are planning on marrying the girl. Put it this way - if you had sex with a local and then you broke it off with her... and she was "arranged" (BTW - many times they are arranged to marry their cousins) or whatever to marry... and her new husband had sex with her after the marriage only to find out she wasn't a virgin... shit starts to fly! If an unmarried woman were to get pregnant... I hear they can be killed (aka, stoned...)... if not by her own famiily then by the authorities. I was told by a guy that married an Arab woman that they have insurance plans for newly weds that if the girl ends up not a virgin - the guy gets his money back, the marriage is cancelled and she is bannished somehow. The twisted thing is a man can have multiple wives - I don't know aboot that... one would be enough for this guy...

    So to answere your question, there are a lot of people working from all over the world - so it's best to leave the Arabs alone... let them do their thing...

    Did I mention Romanian girls? Mmmmm...
    Last edited by Warrior; 11-22-2003 at 07:19 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior
    Actually I have seen some that really are! But they are always covered up in black - everything but their eyes... and sometimes their ayes are too! It's kind of a scary sight to see them driving

    The main problem with woman from the middle east (strong Muslims) is you can't really "date" them. They are kind of off limits. I know some who have but it is pretty much not a wise thing to do unless you are planning on marrying the girl. Put it this way - if you had sex with a local and then you broke it off with her... and she was "arranged" (BTW - many times they are arranged to marry their cousins) or whatever to marry... and her new husband had sex with her after the marriage only to find out she wasn't a virgin... shit starts to fly! If an unmarried woman were to get pregnant... I hear they can be killed (aka, stoned...)... if not by her own famiily then by the authorities. I was told by a guy that married an Arab woman that they have insurance plans for newly weds that if the girl ends up not a virgin - the guy gets his money back, the marriage is cancelled and she is bannished somehow. The twisted thing is a man can have multiple wives - I don't know aboot that... one would be enough for this guy...

    So to answere your question, there are a lot of people working from all over the world - so it's best to leave the Arabs alone... let them do their thing...

    Did I mention Romanian girls? Mmmmm...

    Yup yup yup, Middle East sure can be ONE FUCKED UP place to be But man, if so many of the people weren't such ass pricks, it's a very nice and beautiful place to be/visit. God damn politicians and their religious government, but hell what can you do?!

    Sub, keep us posted with what you think, and the more info you find out, and obviously your final pick. I can't remember if you mentioned this already (not in the mood to read the whole thread again but what about South America? Places like Brazil or Argentina? The islands? etc...

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    Ok bro, I got home and checked out the Australian thing.... unfortunately it's not open to US citizens... (seems it's a program that works on reciprocal agreements with other countries, and the US has no agreements with Australia).

    This is their webpage... still an interesting read...

    http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/visiting_whm.htm

    Red

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    Quote Originally Posted by BamaSlamma
    Initial cost of moving to Italy is not that bad...hey join NATO or the UN and make the world gov'ts pay for it!!
    Exactly. If you want to move overseas you should deffinitly look into some government contracts. There are a lot available right now. Basically, there is a lot going on in the world and the Secretary of Defense has stated that he wants more civilian contractors to free up the military personel around the globe. If you could locate a contract that utilized your degree... it would probably be worth at least 125-150,000 per year starting off... with free housing and what not. See if you can get help from your school locating a recruiter for government in contracts around the world for your specialty...

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    Thanks for the ideas guys, you're givin me a lot of ideas i never would have thought of.

    Red, thats kinda weird, cuz the other day i ran into this random kid on the bus that happened to be studying abroad next sem in australia. I asked him about it and he said it was true, but he was just gonna take classes there, no internship, so I'm sure his info could be off, but i'll have to check up on it.

    Ter- I have been to various parts of mexico 5 or 6 times on vacation, plus a couple islands in the carribean, so thats out the window for now.

    Warrior- Can you elaborate what you mean when you say gvmt contracts? Are those yearly salaries you posted? Come to think of it, my dad knew a chick that was in civil engineering and I think she opted to do like 8 yrs in europe(she was in the navy i think), went to like spain and stuff, don't exactly remember all the details.

    As far as my situation right now, I probably won't do much about it for the next couple weeks because Its gonna be a crash landing for me this sem(between fri and sat nite, i sleep at least 25hrs), and I'm gonna have to wait to talk with mom & pops once xmas break gets here and figure out those gory financial details. I beleive the final deadline is march 1st, so i have a lil bit of time to sort things out, but most scholarships for study abroad are due in feb, so hopefully i will have everything worked out before then.

    And warrior please don't mention romanian girls, actually had a pretty funny thing happen to me last summer with one, but only because it sucked for me. But thats a story for another time.

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    For example... MPRI, DataPath, General Dynamics, Brown and Root, DynCorp, ITT... they are all overseas contractors for the state department. And yes, I was referring to yearly salary... if you were to work as a chemical engineer for an oil company overseas, the contract could be even more. Remember one thing... "contract" is used very loosley in this area. If you were to accept a job like this and descided that you wanted to go home - it is illegal for them to hold you in another country... they are required to get you on the next plane ride home. It's not like being held under a contract as a miltary servicemen... you can quit anytime. The contract just states all the terms of hiring... such as vacation pay, sick leave, salary, potential bonuses and/or end of contract bonuses, and so on...

    IMHO - for a new guy out of college this would be an awesome way to get some great experience on the resume and make some good money...

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    Curveball

    I got a couple emails today from my sister today. She gave me this link for a summer internship at a naval research laboratory.

    http://hroffice.nrl.navy.mil/Vacancies/SUM03ANNC.htm

    The other oppurtunity is this summer at U of M at their Space Research Lab.

    http://www.sprl.umich.edu/SPRL/REU/


    I don't know much about either and haven't had much of a chance to look at em, but from a glance its hard to tell anything from them, so I'll give my sister a call tommorrow. I have been aching to do some research so both would be a great oppurtunity, plus both would be paying so thats another plus. U of M is maybe 40 min from my home, so that would be cool and I could still enter some comps this summer if i want to. The navy oppurtunity, well i might have to go somewhere else in the US, possibly live with my sister in Maryland for the summer, which could be weird and cool at the same time.

    I suppose it does make sense to earn some cash this summer, and then I'll definitely have enough money to go study aboad summer '05. Plus I'd have some research under my belt, so I'd probably get more scholarships and that would make studying abroad even cheaper. Of course the benefit of going to London this year, is that I'd be going to London this year

    So I got some decisions to make, but at least I have options. Oh, and of course I could always get an internship near my house at one of the big car companies.

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