Xmas Question (construed realities and psychological damage)

**BigGreen** · 11-29-2003, 07:30 PM

Okay, this is a serious question regarding the "xmas spirit" and such. What I'd like to know is A) how many of you believed in Santa as a youngster, B) whether or not you think that belief was ultimately healthy, harmful or somewhere in between, and C) if you foresee your kids believing in Santa (indoctrinating them, so to speak).

The motivation for this question is as follows: I believed in Santa and, while crushed a bit when I found out he was not "real", maintain that it was a psychologically beneficial experience despite its core essence of parental deception. I recently discovered that a great deal of my college buddies did not believe in Santa as children, as their parents deemed such inconic worship as hopelessly un-intellectual. More shocking was the sheer number of these people who maintain that they will not deceive their kids with the falsity known as Saint Nick. Now, maybe I was just stuck in a liberal, intellectual waste hole, where anything not empirically validated by a scientist or addressed in the "Great Books" is dismissed out of hand, but having heard this and inquired about it, I'm shocked at the negative connotation belief in Santa seems to carry in the new millenium. Any thoughts??

**KeyMastur** · 11-29-2003, 07:39 PM

a) of course
b) somewhere in between. i'm open minded, so it doesn't bother me. i think it's just the world's way of trying to bring some good to a child's life by giving him something to believe in.
c) i can't see how you can avoid them believing in santa. you see santa this, santa that, all the time around christmas. when are they old enough to understand the difference between what is real and not real - that's when you tell them.

i will raise my kids on the belief's that my wife and i both agree on. when they are old enough to distinguish what is real and what isn't, then i will have no problem if they believe what they want.

take me for instance. i was brought up on the whole belief of JC. now, i don't. will i raise my childen with my belief ?? no. i will keep them open minded and not teach them anything until they are ready to be taught.

**Bigboy123** · 11-29-2003, 10:59 PM

a- yes
b- I think so, its just the holiday time of year, i think except for certian cercumstance, it is very healthy..
c- I think like key said there is no way in avoiding them in believing and if u were too the way ruin it for all the other children... Unless ur the grinch i dont see why u would.

I have to say i am young, although i have a serious girlfriend i dont have a child and wont for quit some time... SO i cant tell u from personal experience just my intiution and $.02

***BIG TEXAN*** · 11-29-2003, 11:05 PM

Yes I believed in Santa and no I don't think it had any ill effects on me or anyone else. I still do believe in the spirit of Christmas and will let my children believe in Santa until they get old enough to figure it out on their own.

**** BG, do you have to over analyze everything.

j/k bro.

**Mr. Death** · 11-30-2003, 01:23 AM

I don't remember believing in Santa. If I did, I was really young. I'll have to ask my parents if I ever did. I don't believe that belief in Santa is causing kids any major damage. If it was there would be a lot of screwed up people out there. It's just part of growing up, learning that things are different for adults than they are for kids. Most kids understand and accept that.

**Tock** · 11-30-2003, 02:11 AM

I don't recall beleiving in Santa or the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy. I guess when my folks mentioned 'em, I figured it was just some sort of holiday metaphor or something that I went along with. When my mom told me there wasn't a Santa, I looked at her like she was crazy, like she had said the Empire State Building wasn't made of Empire. Yah, I looked at her and said, "So?"

A friend of mine down the street had a hard time with it, and he was in the 6th grade at the time. Ahh, he was kinda odd anyway, last I heard of him he was in prison for robbing a gas station.

Around little kids, sure, I go along with the fiction. It's kinda fun, I'm sure some kids go along with the holiday metaphor thing, and others beleive in the physical existance of a Santa, and enjoy the whole thing.

Don't think it hurts 'em one way or another, unless they get to a point where they get upset and call you a blasphemer and burn you at the stake as an infidel for telling 'em that there is no such thing as a god (oops, I mean Santa) . . . lol . . .

**peam** · 11-30-2003, 02:22 AM

I always knew that santa was just my dad putting toys under the tree... but there was always that hope that maybe santa was real... I think having an older brother ruined for me... he liked to make me cry! He spoiled any hope santa had in my house. Anyhow... I think it's good for the kids... look at the **** hole of a world we live in now... might as well give them a happy childhood until they realize what the "real world" is like and have to take anti-depressants to live "normally" and get into credit card debt buying presents for their own kids so that they will believe in santa and another thing.... that's what harvard teaches you? That santa's not real?

**sin** · 11-30-2003, 06:31 PM

santa is not real?

**rambo** · 11-30-2003, 06:44 PM

I was told at a young age that each and every one of the falsified icons were nothing short of fabrications concocted by other children's parents in order to leverage behavior. I was also told not to tell my cousins the truth about their mythical icons, as to not upset them. In retrospect it gave me a feeling of increased awareness, and most likely did contribute to my lack of childhood innocence. Holistically, the scope of the Santa fallacy is become less and less colloquially ambiguous. It's not needed to stress the presence of an omnipotent being to gauge proper actions. The continued globalization of our society leads all but the most sheltered children to understand the whimsical nature of such rationale. It is likely that as time passes, the reliance on santa will become less and less authentic, and his profitability will follow suit.

**BigGreen** · 11-30-2003, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by rambo

I was told at a young age that each and every one of the falsified icons were nothing short of fabrications concocted by other children's parents in order to leverage behavior. I was also told not to tell my cousins the truth about their mythical icons, as to not upset them. In retrospect it gave me a feeling of increased awareness, and most likely did contribute to my lack of childhood innocence. Holistically, the scope of the Santa fallacy is become less and less colloquially ambiguous. It's not needed to stress the presence of an omnipotent being to gauge proper actions. The continued globalization of our society leads all but the most sheltered children to understand the whimsical nature of such rationale. It is likely that as time passes, the reliance on santa will become less and less authentic, and his profitability will follow suit.

Bastard....

Did your parents also seem fit to name you Karl?

**rambo** · 11-30-2003, 06:54 PM

I'm not sure I follow you, BG, I assume you're making an allusion, and I've got several that are relative to the topic, but can't quite seem to narrow it down.

**Tock** · 11-30-2003, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by rambo

I'm not sure I follow you, BG, I assume you're making an allusion, and I've got several that are relative to the topic, but can't quite seem to narrow it down.

=========

Too funny . . .

**caturpilar** · 11-30-2003, 07:42 PM

I believed
My two youngest still believe, my oldest figured out about 2yrs ago he was fake

There are ppl who think it is detrimental to a childs character and mind to believe in santa, but have you ever met those ppl. Those are some wierd ppl.

**BigGreen** · 11-30-2003, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by rambo

I'm not sure I follow you, BG, I assume you're making an allusion, and I've got several that are relative to the topic, but can't quite seem to narrow it down.

Your response just smacked of the "wishful socialist parent" paradigm...so the Karl allusion was the most obvious one. Once again an ill-conceived critical philosopher joke goes horribly awry. Thank goodness I didn't go out on a limb with an Adorno/Horkenheimer reference....I've tried that a few times on first dates with predictably blue-balled results.

**rambo** · 11-30-2003, 08:26 PM

I understood it completely, and that's what came to mind first. Then I drifted off into contemplating whether you had intended to reference Carl Jung- who's social views outside of psychological context were visibly tinted red, and had replaced the C with a K. Even further I thought you might be referencing my ever present homoerotic undertones by bringing up Karl and Lenny from the Simpsons. And I can't believe you pulled out postmodernism in the presence of a female, let alone on a first date. I check my ascerbicity at the door, and proceed to speak in single syllable words when i come in contact with most of the fairer sex.

P.S. I assume you mean Adorno/Horkheimer

**BigGreen** · 11-30-2003, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by rambo

I understood it completely, and that's what came to mind first. Then I drifted off into contemplating whether you had intended to reference Carl Jung- who's social views outside of psychological context were visibly tinted red, and had replaced the C with a K. Even further I thought you might be referencing my ever present homoerotic undertones by bringing up Karl and Lenny from the Simpsons. And I can't believe you pulled out postmodernism in the presence of a female, let alone on a first date. I check my ascerbicity at the door, and proceed to speak in single syllable words when i come in contact with most of the fairer sex.

P.S. I assume you mean Adorno/Horkheimer

Touche, but wouldn't Jung be inclined to say that the persistent Santa Clause myth is about as normal as a cultural persistence can be, given its ubiquituity across cultures and time? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but the few times I've referenced Jung with regards to my major (not psychology) it was to use him as an authority on the "recycled paradigm" and as a reference and starting point for the argument that all literary work can be viewed as perpetually etymological of itself. Also, the Lenny and Karl thing wouldn't be too off either, wasn't it the case that Groening intended their relationship to be sort of a Lenin/Marx type thing in some respects?

**partyboynyc** · 11-30-2003, 09:16 PM

so that i can tell him santa got jacked on the way to our place so i can get off cheap

**rambo** · 11-30-2003, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by BigGreen

Touche, but wouldn't Jung be inclined to say that the persistent Santa Clause myth is about as normal as a cultural persistence can be, given its ubiquituity across cultures and time? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but the few times I've referenced Jung with regards to my major (not psychology) it was to use him as an authority on the "recycled paradigm" and as a reference and starting point for the argument that all literary work can be viewed as perpetually etymological of itself. Also, the Lenny and Karl thing wouldn't be too off either, wasn't it the case that Groening intended their relationship to be sort of a Lenin/Marx type thing in some respects?

I'm not sure of any critical analysis that definitively states his commitment to any one political agenda, but I've always found that his views could be considered skewed towards a Marxist anthem of sorts. His archetypical constructs were considered universal; in a way that I found to be conducive to a society not only in which they are always present, but more specifically present due to a lack of specific social hierarchy. It's undoubtedly a stretch, but nonetheless vaguely applicable. I'm not sure of the Groening connection to Lenin or Marx, but that in itself presents another aspect to a "cartoon" which indirectly addresses la tabula rasa and numerous other concepts the average viewer won't grasp.

**partyboynyc** · 11-30-2003, 09:36 PM

tell your god **** kids there is a sanata claus before they grow up and shoot up my kids highschool because their parents over thought simplistic images of cheer and ****

**mass junkie** · 11-30-2003, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by partyboynyc

tell your god **** kids there is a sanata claus before they grow up and shoot up my kids highschool because their parents over thought simplistic images of cheer and ****

Your gonna have kids.....

.....Did hell freeze over and I just didnt get the memo

**partyboynyc** · 11-30-2003, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by mass junkie

Your gonna have kids.....

.....Did hell freeze over and I just didnt get the memo

too expensive.then santa has to **** **** up by making them think god**** presents fall out of a ****ign chimney.yeah great job fat man.go back to the south pole and save me some bank

**rambo** · 11-30-2003, 09:53 PM

That ****ing **** ****er **** **** santa **** **** moth****ing **** **** claus can **** **** my mothe****ing ass.

**Danielle** · 11-30-2003, 10:04 PM

i think its good that children believe in these "imaginary" people (santa, easter bunny, tooth fairy) to an extent............i mean your only going to be young once..........i just remember that great feeling waking up and running downstairs with my brother to see what "Santa" left.......such a good feeling........kids shouldn't be deprived of that.....eventho it is fake, blah blah.....let them enjoy it while it lasts.......

i remember a boy in our 1st grade class.......standing top of his desk around christmas time...yelling.."Santa isn't real...hes fake.....hes fake".......OMG....how defensive our class got.......then the next year......i sat outside my parents bedroom and heard them talking about everything they had gotten us...........yes......it was kind of upseting at first.......but u get over it quick...........

**mass junkie** · 11-30-2003, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by Danielle

i think its good that children believe in these "imaginary" people (santa, easter bunny, tooth fairy) to an extent............i mean your only going to be young once..........i just remember that great feeling waking up and running downstairs with my brother to see what "Santa" left.......such a good feeling........kids shouldn't be deprived of that.....eventho it is fake, blah blah.....let them enjoy it while it lasts.......

i remember a boy in our 1st grade class.......standing top of his desk around christmas time...yelling.."Santa isn't real...hes fake.....hes fake".......OMG....how defensive our class got.......then the next year......i sat outside my parents bedroom and heard them talking about everything they had gotten us...........yes......it was kind of upseting at first.......but u get over it quick...........

You mean SANTA CLAUSE is not real?

**partyboynyc** · 11-30-2003, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by mass junkie

You mean SANTA CLAUSE is not real?

had sex with my mother on christmas when i was 6 while my father was out busting his ass to make $$$ to buy us presents!!!death to santa!!!

**rambo** · 11-30-2003, 10:10 PM

Rumor has it the Easter Bunny killed Jesus.

**partyboynyc** · 11-30-2003, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by rambo

Rumor has it the Easter Bunny killed Jesus.

THAT SON OF A BITCH!!! rumor has it that Jesus ****ed Mrs. Bunny while Easter Bunny was slaving away trying to work on this project to turn water into wine and go into the distillery business.there's not a real markup on colored eggs and the man had a family to feed

**rambo** · 12-01-2003, 08:52 PM

This thread went south, very quickly.

**bigol'legs** · 12-01-2003, 08:57 PM

It was funny.. my son was playing 2 other kids outside (jewish) cause they are the neighbor kids and are 7 and 8 and told my son that santa isnt real... ya know what he said...

"yes he is.. I saw him at the mall!"

now thats individualism!!

**rambo** · 12-01-2003, 09:08 PM

I see that you took the nickname I gave you as your custom title. A little thank you would have been great, you inconsiderate ****.

**bermich** · 12-02-2003, 12:22 AM

I do not want to deceive my kid when he believes in santa. It only lasts for about 3-4 years anyway. If you cant handle a 4 year old believing in a magical person while still believing in whatever religious beliefs you have, then you are too uptight.
Sure it may make you feel morally superior telling your kid the truth about such myth being nonesense, but as a kid, you need something to believe in and look forward to.
Half the fun of Christmas was seeing Santa and hoping you could catch him sneaking down your chiminey. Leaving cookies out for him and such.
The child has the rest of his life to be realistic and live in the real world. Let him or her have those special memories.