Patriot/Anti-patriot

[Elliot]

Umm not to sound like an asshole.. but i dont understand why people get so fired up? so he thinks the wall is black while you think its white.. **** let it be.. at lease he has the balls to stand up for what belives, might it be right or worng..

[ripped4fsu]

bro you are killing me!! You sit there with your supposed superior intellect and enlightenment and then proceed to call us all hicks, meatheads, Nazi’s etc… I mean how old are you.. 6?!? I’m afraid somebody just filled your head with a bunch of anti-American rhetoric, and desperately seeking acceptance into any group that would have you, you embraced it. But it’s ok bro, spew that garbage all you want. That’s what the 1st amendment is for. But until you learn to respect other people and their views don’t expect to be taken seriously. IMO you come across as nothing more than a pathetic loser who is full of jealousy and hate.

[MedicalStudent]

Umm not to sound like an asshole.. but i dont understand why people get so fired up? so he thinks the wall is black while you think its white.. **** let it be.. at lease he has the balls to stand up for what belives, might it be right or worng..

Thank you. I appreciate it.
And also, if you hate what I have to say so much, then either disagree or ignore.

bro you are killing me!!

I have never met you, and have no intention of killing you. Although if it comes down to it, I'd be down to take care of this with a good game of Street Fighter II...as long as you let me play Ryu.

You sit there with your supposed superior intellect and enlightenment and then proceed to call us all hicks, meatheads, Nazi’s etc… I mean how old are you.. 6?!?

If you couldn't tell...it doesn't take a genius to figure out that I am not calling EVERYONE here a hick, meathead, and/or Nazi. My comments should be taken with a bit of intuition and intelligence--does a body good.

I’m afraid somebody just filled your head with a bunch of anti-American rhetoric, and desperately seeking acceptance into any group that would have you, you embraced it.

Notice how you are the one sitting in the band-wagon right now.

But it’s ok bro, spew that garbage all you want. That’s what the 1st amendment is for.

At least it was, before the PATRIOT ACT was passed.

But until you learn to respect other people and their views don’t expect to be taken seriously. IMO you come across as nothing more than a pathetic loser who is full of jealousy and hate.

I'm actually a real winner. At least that's what my mom says.

Take Care, Malcolm.

[ripped4fsu]

enjoyed the spar bro. take care
~R

[Tock]

:
Thought you'd like this one Tock.

Oh yeah. Class . . . nothin' but real class . ..
--Tock

[Tock]

Oh, Tock, btw...why do you not have a reply for Doc M? Is it because he is right on the money with his post?

peace,

ttgb

I didn't really notice it . . . I'll go back and take another look.
BTW, You're right, I really don't care what other folks think of my "associations" or opinions. Jesus himself didin't give a rat's ass, not that I give a rat's ass about what he thinks either . . . I call 'em the way I see 'em. At my age, weight, and smell, it don't make any difference anyway.
-Tock

[Tock]

Tock, . . . I am however very suprised that you have defended this particular person and the radical beliefs he entertains..
Doc M

What issue(s) or what radical beleifs in partcular are you referring to?
-Tock

[markas214]

[QUOTE=tryingtogetbig]I could jack-off in a mayo jar and produce more intelligent offspring than you...but thanks for continuing to share your insightfulness. I give you about 1 more week and you'll piss off enough mods to get banned. You have done WAY more than share a differing opinion. Your continual use of the word "meatheads" "uneducated" "idiots" and looking down on other people because they disagree with you, will inevitably take your anti-american, tree hugging views elsewhere. Good riddance.

peace,

ttgb[/QUOTE
I usually don't like this kind of response but ttgb you you are right on here. This idiot, probably a Burger King manager and not a med student. He should be banned. He comes onto this board and every post I have seen by him is an insult or personal attacks on one of our members. I brought up a few points and instead of addressing them he cites them as making his point and calls me a meathead. It is obvious he is not loooking for a discussion or debate. Rather he just spews his distorted view of history in a manner offensive to the responders to his rhetoric. Also don't offend idiots and tree hugggers with this piece of human excrement. He is well below that level.

[markas214]

What issue(s) or what radical beleifs in partcular are you referring to?
-Tock

Tock why do you defend this idiot? He is way over the top here. His views are so anti American and offensive. He seems to really hate the USA. This is the mentality of those who killed our citizens on 9/11. Do you actually agree with him?

[MedicalStudent]

Tock why do you defend this idiot? He is way over the top here. His views are so anti American and offensive. He seems to really hate the USA.

Let us assume for a second that what you say is true, that I really hate the USA and I am anti-American. (I am not, but let us assume for hypothetical purposes.) So do you ban all people who are anti-American? Are only war-mongering Americans allowed to visit this website? If so, you should add this to the top of the AR website, that only Americans are allowed since America is superior.

This is the mentality of those who killed our citizens on 9/11.

But I thought I just got done told you that I am against wanton violence? Hmmmmm.......Perhaps it is more accurate to say that it is YOUR type of mentality that results in death and destruction. You believe it is OK to go dump bombs on Iraq and Afghanistan and any other place where lesser peoples live. You so mad at 9/11 that you ready to bomb the world...oh wait, no...only the Muslims. Becuase Muslims are inferior and should all be killed. (I've actually recieved PMs to this effect.) But of course, the similarities in such thinking to colonializer mentality is obvious.

It doesn't matter if you don't know anything about the history of countries you bomb, but to you--you hate Muslims and you manifest this hatred by bombing without distinction. Just slam dunk them all because you are superior, and hell--you are American. You own this earth, and people should be just like you. They should just be happy that God created Americans, because Americans are the standard-bearer of Justice, Equality, and the "American Way".

Do you actually agree with him?

I don't think he ever said he agrees with me, only that your responses were ill-founded. I think he believes it is ok to disagree....*gasp*

[spywizard]

By claiming to be black, you are offensive to many of us... not because you are black, but the damage that you do to the black community as a whole.. the respect that many of us feel for American Black men who are educated, and productive in American society.

Your religious beliefs dictate all that you are..

If we/I disagree.. it doesn't mean that we/i am close minded, ignorant, or any other words you have used to inflict your self importance..

We/i simple have refused to accept a false prophet.. if you do not like that, too bad......

If you are seeking acceptace.......... too bad....... We don't have to accept you, or your way of thinking...

Remember.. those that refuse to learn from History, are destined to relive it..

This is where i would normally say "Peace"...

But i pray to the One and Only Living God Of Isreal to forgive you, as you continue on the path of destruction that you have choosen..

Let us assume for a second that what you say is true, that I really hate the USA and I am anti-American. (I am not, but let us assume for hypothetical purposes.) So do you ban all people who are anti-American? Are only war-mongering Americans allowed to visit this website? If so, you should add this to the top of the AR website, that only Americans are allowed since America is superior.


But I thought I just got done told you that I am against violence? Hmmmmm.......Perhaps it is more accurate to say that it is YOUR type of mentality that results in death and destruction. You believe it is OK to go dump bombs on Iraq and Afghanistan and any other place where lesser peoples live. It doesn't matter if you don't know anything about history, but to you--you hate Muslims and you manifest this hatred by bombing without distinction. Just slam dunk them all because you are superior.


I don't think he ever said he agrees with me, only that your responses were ill-founded. I think he believes it is ok to disagree....*gasp*

[markas214]

[QUOTE=MedicalStudent]Let us assume for a second that what you say is true, that I really hate the USA and I am anti-American. (I am not, but let us assume for hypothetical purposes.) So do you ban all people who are anti-American?]
Yes. This site was created by an American and is visited mainly by Americans. We do not need people coming here telling us how bad we are.

Are only war-mongering Americans allowed to visit this website?]
No. I don't agree with our occupation or the invasion of Iraq.

You believe it is OK to go dump bombs on Iraq and Afghanistan and any other place where lesser peoples live. ]
Not Iraq but Afghanistan was basically run by Al Quada and was their base of operation. We were totally justified in going there to wagw war against those who attacked us,

You so mad at 9/11 that you ready to bomb the world...oh wait, no...only the Muslims. Becuase Muslims are inferior and should all be killed.]
I have friends who are Arab and ones who are Muslim.

It Just slam dunk them all because you are superior, and hell--you are American. You own this earth, and people should be just like you. They should just be happy that God created Americans, because Americans are the standard-bearer of Justice, Equality, and the "American Way".] QUOTE]


Well at least we agree on some things.

[monster.]

Due to the fact that so many of you responded and my limited time, I may not be able to respond very quickly.

It is very typical that you would link 9/11 with Iraq somehow. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, but the average ignorant American believes anything he hears. It is hilarious how Americans think that the War in Iraq has something to do with 9/11. In fact, the only thing it has to do with 9/11 is that the Americans have decided to take revenge by slaying innocents. This is the very definition of a "terrorist", taking rage out on innocents.

Having said that, there are many Americans who are not so ignorant (like myself and others) who actively protested the war on Iraq. My respects to such individuals.

Speaking from a muslim point of view, why would a group of terriosts declare war on the western civilization (Innocent people of NYC) for their religion? Whoever responsible, for flying those planes, and killing that number of people did so for their muslim religion.. I'm curious to what your views are of what happened on 9/11.. Like i said this is off topic, but that seems to be closer to a genocide then the war in Iraq.. Is this just a fluke..

MedicalStudent.. You may have missed my entire point, I did not say anything about the war in Iraq, having anything to do with the attacks on 9/11.. I compared the two because you said the war in iraq is nothing but the killing of innocent people (which is narrowminded and ignorant to say the least), The events that took place on 9/11 was mass murder 1,000's of innocent people that died, in the name of the muslim religion - at least thats who were flying the planes, muslim extremists.. Please put your thinking cap on, and by all means answer the question in bold.. You make me giggle by the way.. My advice to you is become a singer, or a talkshow host.. Quit wasting parents money for tuition, and your your time in med school..

My 2 cents

[tryingtogetbig]

...Also don't offend idiots and tree hugggers with this piece of human excrement. He is well below that level.

LOL!! I quit associating the words "tree hugger" and "democrat" because of one of our earlier debates...hard to believe you changed my mind on something, but I am a reasonable guy afterall!! I realized there is a difference...now granted, majority of tree huggers are democrats, but not vice versa.

So, in this case I was intentionally using the word...and appropriately I believe.

peace,

ttgb

[Doc M]

Well, what can I say that hasn't already been said..I am a little amused that medicalstudent had nothing to say to me other than pointing out a spelling error..I do apologize that my typing skills are a little weak, but hey, I'm not perfect and my brain seems to operate much faster than my fingers can type..I guess I should go sign up for a typing skills 101 course at the local college so I don't get made fun of for a spelling error..As a promise to you medicalstudent, I will use the spell check diligently from here on out..Since this post is going nowhere but in a negative direction, I am finished reading or responding to it..You have your views and that is fine, but maybe you should find a better way to express them without offending so many people on this board..Being American, Muslim, Atheist, Christian, or any type of religion or nationality has very little to do with what this board is designed for..So with that said, peace to all!

Doc M

[tryingtogetbig]

Well at least we agree on some things.

Unfortanutely, his mentality almost makes you want to really think that way!!

[decadbal]

everyone knows, all cultures were slaves, and most were slaves for alot longer than 400 odd years, its been over acentury since slavery, close to a century and a half, and still the black ppl use it as a crutch. when is the past gonna be released so we can move on to the future, everyone here, white or black or any other race, knows any kind of slavery is bad, and unjust, its also something you cant use as an excuse, more so when it happens to you, or your ancestors. im irish, my ancestors were slaves for thousands of years, not hundreds. blacks hold slavery against us bc some white ppl had slaves, they harbor feelins toward us bc someone did something to someone they dont know. well you know a black guy killed a very good friend of mine, but that gives me no right to hate blacks. slavery gives blacks no right to use it as a bargaining chip, or for pity about the past. medstudent, i have and will again defended your right to say wht you like, and its something you cant lose here, you can in the countries we "attack". the "innocent" ppl we killed "for no reason" would have killed you, bc of something, anything, those ppl were attackin their own ppl, you would have the choice of killin your ppl, or being killed by them. its always easy to sit back and say what youd do, when you dont have the insight that higher powers in our goverment do.

[Cycleon]

medstu - Well, I realize that even with my mensa certification, an MBA and soon to be another Masters in National Security Studies - I am yet but wallowing in the sty of ignorance next to the radiance of your enlightened wisdom and erudition - but even so, as I grovel obsequiously in envy at your shadow - let me offer a brief instructive:
a. Make sure that your arguments remain theoretical and do not engage personally.
b. In no way, form or fashion, impugn the sacrifice that our members of military service are called on to perform.


Although your views are not much appreciated here, I will continue to allow them as long as they fit within the above parameters - simply for the point of sharpening the argumentative intellect of our members so that when they are to hear such drivel as is often spouted by leftistas of all stripes who would sell our country to whatever cause they deem dear that day - they will not be as likely to be found intellectually unprepared.

A brief lesson in power, however - sort of like America, I tollerate your right of dissent but do not forget who has the power to remove that dissent at any time.

Also - to further enlighted, your "muslim brothers" in the east mostly think of American black muslims as something lower than sand rats - but then again, the only reason that you could be treated with respect over there is because you have an American passport.

[tryingtogetbig]

yeah (in a deep man's voice)!! that's what I meant to say!!

[decadbal]

cycleon. well said brother, one day after a few more years of school, i plan to be able to be that well spoken, for now ill just sit back and listen to you tell it like it is. bravo big dog, well said well said

[Elliot]

Close This ****ing Thread It Is Stupid And We Are Going In Circles#@!

[Gaylord Focker]

...this thread is ghey at best...but I cannot think of many other countries where stupidity like this would be allowed to flow so freely...whether you like the country or not respect the freedoms it provides you...

And if your going to be so critical about spelling...

But of course, you as the American are suprior and know what's best for Iraqis, who are so inferior that they are not smart enough to know what they want.

Take Care.

[tryingtogetbig]

...this thread is ghey at best...but I cannot think of many other countries where stupidity like this would be allowed to flow so freely...whether you like the country or not respect the freedoms it provides you...

And if your going to be so critical about spelling...

Yep...on all accounts!!

[M PWR]

I'm just on Doc's side. I'm not going to write it all again. I'm alot smarter than that.

-Sean

[50%Natural]

Got some questions for you medstudent.

1)Why are you on this board?
2)Why do you refer to "your people". No one other than blacks, whoops, I mean african americans, refer to their ancestors so much. Yeah, so people 300 years ago were slaves. Is that the case now? It is always funny to hear people such as yourself come on with your anti-white views and act like WE owe "your people" something. I'm 4th generation american straight from Ireland. Yet you would look at me and scream reperations or something.
3)Do you really know if your anncestors were slaves? Not all blacks come from a slavery background and even if they were slaves, how does that affect you personally. You didn't sweat. You didn't do ****. So why does it bother you? I could scream about Irish herritage and the english, but who cares about that?
4)How do you feel about that white only scholarship?
http://anabolicreview.com/vbulletin/...ad.php?t=84006

[Tock]

Let us assume for a second that what you say is true, that I really hate the USA and I am anti-American. (I am not, but let us assume for hypothetical purposes.) So do you ban all people who are anti-American?

.

----------------

Yes. This site was created by an American and is visited mainly by Americans. We do not need people coming here telling us how bad we are.

----------------


Hmmmm . . .
I would expect that anyone with a good grasp of the issues and the facts at hand should be able to sucessfully debate anyone else in grevious error; IMHO, it's best to keep the fellow with faulty opinions around and try to illuminate with facts and reason than send him off to fume and fester at the intolerance of heresy.

Just my opinion . . . but it's been my experience that when you engage heretics in conversation, both parties are likely to learn from the exchanges, and the levels of suspicion and anger are substantially decreased.

Yep, everybody's got to have the right to be wrong.

--Tock

[Doc M]

Cyc..I don't really need to say his, but your credentials are impressive and your response was very accurate..Even with that said, your statements could have come from a 3rd grader and they would have still been 100% accurate..Hopefully this becomes a dead issue now as I don't think the point can be stressed any more than it alread has been..Peace to all!!

Doc M

p.s. MedStu..In case you are reading this, I did perform a quick spell check for you as to make sure all of my words were spelled in a correct and understandable manner!!!

medstu - Well, I realize that even with my mensa certification, an MBA and soon to be another Masters in National Security Studies - I am yet but wallowing in the sty of ignorance next to the radiance of your enlightened wisdom and erudition - but even so, as I grovel obsequiously in envy at your shadow - let me offer a brief instructive:
a. Make sure that your arguments remain theoretical and do not engage personally.
b. In no way, form or fashion, impugn the sacrifice that our members of military service are called on to perform.


Although your views are not much appreciated here, I will continue to allow them as long as they fit within the above parameters - simply for the point of sharpening the argumentative intellect of our members so that when they are to hear such drivel as is often spouted by leftistas of all stripes who would sell our country to whatever cause they deem dear that day - they will not be as likely to be found intellectually unprepared.

A brief lesson in power, however - sort of like America, I tollerate your right of dissent but do not forget who has the power to remove that dissent at any time.

Also - to further enlighted, your "muslim brothers" in the east mostly think of American black muslims as something lower than sand rats - but then again, the only reason that you could be treated with respect over there is because you have an American passport.

[Tock]

Tock why do you defend this idiot? He is way over the top here. His views are so anti American and offensive. He seems to really hate the USA. This is the mentality of those who killed our citizens on 9/11. Do you actually agree with him?

========


I don't see myself as defending the fellow. I haven't noticed that his remarks were particulary anti-American, but it seems they have offended a few folks here.

I'm not gonna say if I agree with him or not, because I'm not real sure about what he's been talking about that's got the rest of you all riled up. I asked someone for specifics, but so far haven't seen anything. So, let's just say I'm neutral, as I am with most of y'all here. Everyone has a right to their own opinion and their very own butthole.

I have taken issue with a few things some have said that I felt were unwarranted . . . but that shouldn't be construed as agreeing with anyone's postion on anything. Again, I'l just like to know what he's said that's pissed everyone off. I'll bet it's more a case of poor communication; folks shouting at each other without knowing what the heck the problem is. Lots of disputes are that way. Needless.


--Tock

[Symian]

========
I have taken issue with a few things some have said that I felt were unwarranted . . . but that shouldn't be construed as agreeing with anyone's postion on anything. Again, I'l just like to know what he's said that's pissed everyone off. I'll bet it's more a case of poor communication; folks shouting at each other without knowing what the heck the problem is. Lots of disputes are that way. Needless.


--Tock

Make sure that when you join any organization that you agree with the actions committed by such an organization, since you will indeed become part and parcel of it. Hence, what the organization does reflects on you.

His posts like this one in another thread, although they are his opinion, it is uncalled for IMO. The thread wasn't up for polical debate, yet he couldn't resist putting his .02 in.

He is basically anti-military, and that is what gets me so fired up.

Sym

[Tock]

His posts like this one in another thread, although they are his opinion, it is uncalled for IMO. The thread wasn't up for polical debate, yet he couldn't resist putting his .02 in.

He is basically anti-military, and that is what gets me so fired up.

Sym

Ok, so what's so bad with being anti-military?

If there were no armies, navies, air forces, & etc on this planet, everyone would be a whole lot better off, save a fortune on their taxes.

Geez, assuming the military takes 30% of the federal budget, I could have saved several grand in taxes last year without a military. There's something to be said about that . . . would pay for a few excellent cycles (although I think I'm on my last one); or maybe a shiny new Rogers tracker-style organ for the apartment . . . (they'd tar and feather me if I did) . . . or something . . .
Trouble is, military forces are usually a necessary evil, because "evil" rulers find them necessary for their plans for expansion. So, the good guys gotta have 'em too, just to keep the bad guys honest.
And the trouble with that is that sometimes the good guys make mistakes, or even the bad guys make mistakes, or both make mistakes, and generate all kinds of needless misery for everyone. And to be opposed to that sort of mess is hardly unpatriotic.

I see that some of y'all have your panties tied up in a wad, so there's got to be something significant that's bothering y'all . . . I'd sure like to know what it is . . .
--Tock

[Symian]

Ok, so what's so bad with being anti-military?

1) If there were no armies, navies, air forces, & etc on this planet, everyone would be a whole lot better off, save a fortune on their taxes.

2) And to be opposed to that sort of mess is hardly unpatriotic.

--Tock

1) Eventhough that statement is true, to not have a military is fantasising. We have always have some type of defensive or offensive since the beginning of civilization, and this will continue until we turn our world into a utopia. Yeah, right!

2) But to downplay and degrade his act of heroism and selflessness is unpatriotic. Even if he is anti-military, everyone should be thankful that these men and women WOULD fight for THIER freedom in need be. Because I'm sorry, but I don't think his martial arts or Tae Bo will save him.

-Our troops should boycott the war and do something more productive. I understand that many of them just went because "it was their job", but still--we shall all be held accountable for our own actions.

-And how could I go to Baghdad when the American occupation forces are busy raping it?

-Typical, considering that the average American soldier comes from the lower segments of society...not the brightest bunch...most of them don't even know where Iraq is on the map...have no conception of history, geography, or anything...just going there to play Rambo and blow up "those **** Ay-rabs".

Comments like these, and others, get my panties in a wad!

Sym

[Tock]

2) But to downplay and degrade his act of heroism and selflessness is unpatriotic. Even if he is anti-military, everyone should be thankful that these men and women WOULD fight for THIER freedom in need be. Because I'm sorry, but I don't think his martial arts or Tae Bo will save him.

3) Comments like these, and others, get my panties in a wad!

===========================
Originally Posted by MedicalStudent
3a) -Our troops should boycott the war and do something more productive. I understand that many of them just went because "it was their job", but still--we shall all be held accountable for our own actions.

3b) -And how could I go to Baghdad when the American occupation forces are busy raping it?

3c) -Typical, considering that the average American soldier comes from the lower segments of society...not the brightest bunch...most of them don't even know where Iraq is on the map...have no conception of history, geography, or anything...just going there to play Rambo and blow up "those **** Ay-rabs".
=================================
Sym

2) Well, if his martial arts won't save him, I will. I weild an awesome pair of barber shears. Plus, I have a rapier-sharp wit, am so handsome that no man can resist my charms (which is why I haven't posted my pic here). On top of that, I can lick any man alive!

3) Bro, you've got to develop a thicker skin. If this is all it takes to get you riled up, you've got issues.
3a) Once you've taken the Oath to serve in the military, you belong to them. You've given up that option from the get-go, when they say jump, you say "How high?" By necessity the military isn't, and can't be, a democracy. If the security of the nation depends on you putting your ass on the line, when the order comes, you've already agreed to take that risk. End of story. There ain't no other option, even for conscientious (sp?) objectors, once you take that oath.
Look, if someone says they have a different opinion, that's their right. If they're in the thick of battle with ya, put him at the front (someone's gotta be there), and let it go at that.
3b) If he was in the military and he got orders to go somewhere, unless he can go through the system and get things changed, he's got to go, else be brought up on AWOL charges.
3c) What he says is pretty much true, here. When I was in, I never saw anyone who carefully considered the ins and outs of the 1975 Mayaguez incident (A US ship that strayed into the North Korea waters where the North Koreans seized it). Folks I saw were ready to "go over there and blow North Korea off the face of the planet," when the US government readily admitted the boat (it was a spy boat,too) had trespassed. The US government would have (and should have) done the same thing had the North Koreans strayed into US waters. But still, folks were stoked, ready to go "play Rambo."
But, there ain't too many folks in the military with even a rudimentary grasp of geography and world history. It's a common problem with roots in the school system, and that's another ball of wax . . . neither here nor there . . .

Ya, you need a few more inches of skin thickness so you can listen to irritating stuff, think about it, and then formulate a reasoned reply. I doubt you'll be able to do this anytime soon . . . took me a couple decades to get there myself, but it's something ya gotta do . . . Girls love that sort of thing, btw. Makes ya look like you're in control of things, rather than just "going off the handle . . ."


Is there any other stuff he's written that pisses ya off?

--Tock

[Symian]

1) Well, if his martial arts won't save him, I will. I weild an awesome pair of barber shears. Plus, I have a rapier-sharp wit, am so handsome that no man can resist my charms (which is why I haven't posted my pic here). On top of that, I can lick any man alive!

2) Bro, you've got to develop a thicker skin. If this is all it takes to get you riled up, you've got issues.

3) Once you've taken the Oath to serve in the military, you belong to them. You've given up that option from the get-go, when they say jump, you say "How high?"

4) If he was in the military and he got orders to go somewhere, unless he can go through the system and get things changed, he's got to go, else be brought up on AWOL charges.

5) What he says is pretty much true, here. When I was in, I never saw anyone who carefully considered the ins and outs of the 1975 Mayaguez incident (A US ship that strayed into the North Korea waters where the North Koreans seized it).

Is there any other stuff he's written that pisses ya off?

--Tock

1) Thats a good one. Do you have anything other than a sarcastic reply as a relevant rebutle?

2)I'm usually a calm person, and you might have a point here. But as any soldier I hold my patriotism in high regard and defend it at all costs.

3)You also have a point here, but as I tell everyone BEFORE they join, know that you're going to fight wars, not to gain college money. Hopefully they have the foresight.

4)Huh? I think you misread this one. MedicalStudent was replying to someone telling him to go to Iraq if he liked it so much, or something like that. And if he's never even been there and seen it firsthand how could he know we're "raping" Iraq?

5)So are you agreeing with him on the notion that military personel are "from the lower segments of society"? I agree that some of us just want to blow stuff up and kill people, myself included, but I came from a an upper middle class family as did some of my friends. Some of us just want to test our skills

Sym

[Symian]

can you get a 203 kit for tht m4 lol.

It has a 203 on it in the pic. Never leave home without it.

Sym

[MedicalStudent]

African Americans Say No to War,
Rep. Maxine Waters Condemns Perle’s, Cheney’s War-Profiteering, Bush’s Cuts on Education, Vets, Healthcare By Pat McDonnell Twair
Photos by Cornelius Cardew and KPFK
April 4, 2003 -- 2:15 pm EST

Although they make up one-third of troops serving in the U.S. military services, a recent Gallup poll showed that two thirds of African Americans oppose the war in Iraq. But the black community has not played a prominent role in the anti-war movement, until now.

This reticence was broken on the West Coast March 29 when more than 700 African Americans vociferously decried the then-10-day-old U.S. invasion of Iraq. Noisy, enthusiastic, dedicated protesters gathered at Liemert Park situated in a South Central Los Angeles neighborhood challenged by hospital closures, gentrification and gang violence.

Rep. Maxine Waters warned her constituents that the Bush Administration is marginalizing blacks by telling them to keep their discussions limited to their neighborhoods.

“They call us unpatriotic if we speak against the war. Well, we’ve been up against harder opposition than the war hawks in the White House: George W. Bush, Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Carl Rove, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Condoleeza Rice, and Colin Powell,” stated the feisty congresswoman.

Waters is one of only 11 members of the House who did not vote for the congressional resolution on the war with Iraq.

“Let’s get it straight,” she explained, “when people say I didn’t vote for war, I didn’t vote for it because it could have been avoided. Hans Blix wanted to continue inspections. Kofi Annan wanted to continue inspections. So did France, Germany, China.”“Bush threatened any nation who was opposed to war. Finally (North Korean leader) Kim Jong Il said ‘let me show you where weapons of mass destruction really are.’”
Turning to African Americans serving in the military, Waters said they aren’t the ones who planned the war, “they were just looking for employment to support their families.”

The Democrat said George W. Bush targeted Saddam Hussein because of his failure to capture Usama Bin Ladin. “Now Bush intends to spend all our money on this war while giving nothing to our raggedy, dilapidated schools, healthcare, and veterans. We fought the U.S.’s wars and then had to come back and ride in the back of the bus.”

Waters was on a roll as she brought up her efforts on the House floor to stop government officials from profiting from post-war reconstruction contracts in Iraq.

“I tried to introduce a little amendment to the financial services committee because Dick Cheney was sitting in the right position to channel the contracts for his old firm, Halliburton,” she said. In fact, Halliburton received a reconstruction contract without submitting a bid.

The amendment Waters proposed would have put a four-year hold on awarding military contracts to corporations with political connections that helped draft the Iraqi war policy or employed high-level administration officials.

Her amendment was shot down by the Republicans. So Waters went back with a weaker amendment in which she stipulated that a person who has worked for a potential contract recipient in the past four years should recuse himself from negotiations.

The GOP vetoed this amendment as well.

Richard Perle, who had to step down March 27 from his advisory post to the Pentagon because of mounting evidence of conflict of interest, is both a consultant and contractor, Waters charged.

“There are a lot of people who stand to benefit from this war.”

Waters condemned Bush’s budget proposals which will cut $15 billion from veterans’ programs at the very time he is sending young combatants to war.

“You would think the U.S. media are employed by Rumsfeld,” she concluded. “We need truth from these ‘embedded’ journalists who say that when a missile hits Iraqi civilians the Iraqis did it to themselves. U.S. polls claim that 73 percent of Americans are in favor of this war. I believe that is a lie.”

A recurring theme voiced by a series of stirring speakers was disdain for Secretary of State Colin Powell and National Security Advisor Condoleeza Rice.

A coordinator of the event, sponsored by the International Black Coalition for Peace and Justice, was scholar Maualana Karenga, the creator of Kwanza, the African American holiday celebrated from Dec. 16 to Jan. 1.

When Muslim Wakeup asked the California State University at Long Beach professor why more black organizations have not participated in anti-war protests over the past months, he replied: “We won’t come into the peace movement as junior brothers and sisters. We want to be in the decision-making agenda and make our own cultural vision of the society we want to live in.”

As he addressed the growing audience, Dr. Karenga stated: “White is not right, it’s just another color.”

“Look at Bush claiming to achieve peace by war by imposing a military dictatorship over Iraq. Having failed domestically, he’s staging a diversionary victory over people of color in another land. What could be more savage than dropping 20,000-pound bombs on defenseless people?”

The academic warned that the war on Iraq is designed to strengthen Washington’s ally, Israel, and enforce Israel’s destruction of the Palestinian people. He praised African and Latin American nations for resisting U.S. bribes to join its “coalition” against Iraq.

“There is no need to attack people who have done nothing to us, May we win. Because if we lose, we are lost. Imperialist aggression is decaying but it won’t go out without a whimper.”

Former Congressman Mervyn Dymally, who now has a seat in the California Assembly, stated: “I come here not to praise Caesar, but to bury Bush.”

Recalling an April 4, 1967 statement by Martin Luther King, Jr. who declared that the greatest purveyor of violence in the world is the U.S. and that the war in Vietnam had to be stopped, Dymally said: “Well, here we go again.”

The Rev. Leonard Jackson summed it up when he took the podium and shouted: “How the hell can you justify $74.7 billion for 30 days of war when we are crying out for healthcare, education and social services? After Saddam, it will be someone else."

[MedicalStudent]

By claiming to be black, you are offensive to many of us... not because you are black, but the damage that you do to the black community as a whole.. the respect that many of us feel for American Black men who are educated, and productive in American society.

You should not allow your opinion of one individual lead to mass generalizations of an entire race. Tsk tsk... even if I were the worst of people, please explain how that legitamizes racism on your part? Tsk tsk..

We/i simple have refused to accept a false prophet.. if you do not like that, too bad......

False prophet? What the heck are you talking about? LOL. I don't recall me mentioning any prophet. Isn't it odd that you are the one accusing me of religious rhetoric when it is you who is involved in it? Ironic, eh?

If you are seeking acceptace.......... too bad....... We don't have to accept you, or your way of thinking...

That's odd. I don't ever recall asking for acceptance here...?

Remember.. those that refuse to learn from History, are destined to relive it..

Amen. Now reflect on what you just said.

But i pray to the One and Only Living God Of Isreal to forgive you, as you continue on the path of destruction that you have choosen..

Once again, your religious rhetoric. I don't have a problem with it, but I do believe that it was your constituents that argued against my religious rhetoric.
Considering I don't care much for Israel, I don't think I care much about any oaths you swear against me.


Take Care.

[MedicalStudent]

2)I'm usually a calm person, and you might have a point here. But as any soldier I hold my patriotism in high regard and defend it at all costs.

Why do you equate patriotism with war? Were those who were against the war in Vietnam somehow un-patriotic? If you truly love your country (America), then shouldn't you also wish it to be remembered in history as a just state and not one that broke international law and ravaged countries?

4)Huh? I think you misread this one. MedicalStudent was replying to someone telling him to go to Iraq if he liked it so much, or something like that. And if he's never even been there and seen it firsthand how could he know we're "raping" Iraq?

Millions of Iraqi children have died since the First Gulf War directly due to the actions of the United States of America. This is a war-crime and the US is guilty of crimes against humanity.
In addition, the US has used cluster bombs and other WMDs against the Iraqi population. Cluster bombs are banned by international law and used only to inflict the MAXIMUM number of civilian death.
You want to talk about the actions of America in Iraq and Afghanistan, then let's talk. [b]The conduct of the US military is a crime against humanity and history shall remember it as such. Today, the USA is a super-power and does as she pleases. But history has a quaint way about it. Little do people remember that Baghdad used to be the "super-power" of the world just a few hundred years ago. "And soon America will be long gone from the scene" in the words of Malcolm X. This, by the way, is not Anti-Americanism but rather realism...all nations , no matter how great they are, shall one day meet their demise and downfall. So did Rome fall, the great Islamic Empires, the Chinese dynasties, Genghis Khan's hordes......
So what is MOST important for a super-power? Most important is that it conducts itself in such a way that history remembers it in a favorable manner. IF you truly love America and are patriotic, then you would be AGAINST the war so that America keeps its hands clean...

5)So are you agreeing with him on the notion that military personel are "from the lower segments of society"?

Yes, I do. And any reliable statistic would prove it. The vast majority in the military are virtual high-school drop-outs. People who couldn't go anywhere else and the military was the last place that would accept them. These people got rejected from universities, didn't take their SATs, and simply failed in life.
Of course, there are EXCEPTIONS. But we were talking about generally. And generally, it IS the lower segments of society.
They did a study recently and found that most soldiers had no clue where Iraq was on the map prior to being deployed. They also harbored false ideas such as that Iraq was connected to 9/11 somehow, a comical idea indeed.
In fact, the average American cannot even name five states outside of his own. He cannot draw a rough sketch-map of the world, has no clue what continent Egypt or Syria is in, doesn't even know the basics of world history, and cannot name five non-European great empires in history.

Take Care.

[Tock]

1) Thats a good one. Do you have anything other than a sarcastic reply as a relevant rebutle?

2)I'm usually a calm person, and you might have a point here. But as any soldier I hold my patriotism in high regard and defend it at all costs.

3)You also have a point here, but as I tell everyone BEFORE they join, know that you're going to fight wars, not to gain college money. Hopefully they have the foresight.

4)Huh? I think you misread this one. MedicalStudent was replying to someone telling him to go to Iraq if he liked it so much, or something like that. And if he's never even been there and seen it firsthand how could he know we're "raping" Iraq?

5)So are you agreeing with him on the notion that military personel are "from the lower segments of society"? I agree that some of us just want to blow stuff up and kill people, myself included, but I came from a an upper middle class family as did some of my friends. Some of us just want to test our skills

Sym

1) That's no sarcasm. I'm confident; I really can lick any man alive . . .

2) Just make sure other folks don't take advantage of that patriotism. Even the guy who ran the Vietnam War in the 60's admitted it was a horrible mistake. All the war protestors were right, after all. But all the guys in the military were right in continuing to follow orders; that's just part of having a healthy, functioning government.
Patriotism, to me, means not beleiving every thing the government PR folks say. Patriotism means, to me, taking the time and effort to figure out, to the best of your ability, what's really going on, and voicing your opinion (and voting) to your elected representatives to make things go whichever way your wisdom directs. It's a hell of a responsibility, and too few live up to it, which is one reason why the country is in the messes it's in now.
. . . But for sure, make **** sure you don't let anyone in the gov't, including the military, take advantage of your patriotism.

3) Yep.

4) Huh . . . I'll have to take another look at that, then . . .

5) The last set of demographics I saw showed that blacks were in the military in numbers disproportionate to the general US population. Over the past few decades, it's served as a place for unemployed kids to get a job and learn a skill. Did I use the phrase, "lower segments?" If I did, I'll need to amend that to "lower income segments." I've known lots of nice poor folks over the years; don't mean to disparage anyone.
But yah, kids from poorer homes are more apt to join the military than rich kids. It's just the way things are. A couple of Democrats were making noise recently about making military service mandatory for everyone as a way to fix this. Personally, I'm not sure that would be a good idea, as you'd end up with lots of folks in the military who would much rather be anywhere else, and it could have a negative effect on effectiveness. But, that's just my opinion.

--Tock

[Gaylord Focker]

Nice article...a definite anti-Bush article...with the race card slipped in to get it noticed...

[Gaylord Focker]

1) That's no sarcasm. I'm confident; I really can lick any man alive . . .

Are you talking in a fight or with a tongue...either way I don't want to know first hand