"Same sex marriage" What is your opinion?

[Mart651]

****. you are trying to seem smart nbut you keep ****ing it up by calling me names and bringing my mother into it.
This is how I know you are a young kid. 9 years can make a world of difference in maturity and you are proving it.

Look! The wise man speaks again! Oh, that's right, you're older than me, so you know better. Get off your high horse, old man. Ha, you're only 9 years older than me anyways. But I guess that makes you more intelligent and more knowledgeable than me, since you know exactly how I was brought up and all of my life experiences. Again, how about you address my posts instead of just saying I don't know what I'm talking about? Oh, that's because YOU don't know what you're talking about and you have no evidence to support your argument!! My opinion has been taught? By whom? Your mother? How the hell would you know? So because my opinion is different from yours, that makes my opinions "taught"? Actually, I'm a very skeptical person, and if I have a question about something I research it MYSELF, I look at both sides of the argument, logically deduce it in my head, and whichever one makes more sense (something an intelligent person would do), I choose to believe in. So until you can formulate a somewhat reasonable argument to my posts, just keep your mouth shut, pal...

[tryingtogetbig]

Look! The wise man speaks again! Oh, that's right, you're older than me, so you know better. Get off your high horse, old man. Ha, you're only 9 years older than me anyways. But I guess that makes you more intelligent and more knowledgeable than me, since you know exactly how I was brought up and all of my life experiences. Again, how about you address my posts instead of just saying I don't know what I'm talking about? Oh, that's because YOU don't know what you're talking about and you have no evidence to support your argument!! My opinion has been taught? By whom? Your mother? How the hell would you know? So because my opinion is different from yours, that makes my opinions "taught"? Actually, I'm a very skeptical person, and if I have a question about something I research it MYSELF, I look at both sides of the argument, logically deduce it in my head, and whichever one makes more sense (something an intelligent person would do), I choose to believe in. So until you can formulate a somewhat reasonable argument to my posts, just keep your mouth shut, pal...

Refer to post 118...also, you seem eager to plead your case...look at my long post I just bumped and disect that...leave the bickering behind.

peace,

ttgb

[tryingtogetbig]

Lets quit the flames so the thread does not degenerate further.

No shiat guys...come on....ignore each other or something...

[animal-inside]

i am not goign to bother reading all the crap being said.. seems stupid.......

my opion.. go ahead and marry same sex.. but don't EVER brng a child into it in anyway....

[tryingtogetbig]

i am not goign to bother reading all the crap being said.. seems stupid.......

my opion.. go ahead and marry same sex.. but don't EVER brng a child into it in anyway....

well, there was a somewhat intelligent post regarding just that going on....but, unfortanutely that went away.

peace,

ttgb

[Mart651]

Don't quote me wrong I said shoot the parents.
If anyone misses with mykids its death not ass whipping.
If someones kid misses it with my child as the law says the parents are responsible.

Then why do you ahve so much hositility towards gays? I would think "I'd have to kick their parents asses" is pretty self-explanatory...

[animal-inside]

ttgb...... I wasn't going to sift thru the entire thread to find good info, my bad.. but i just didn't have the time.. so i figured i'd just throw out my opion

[tryingtogetbig]

that's cool bro...I'm leaving for a while also...it got out of hand....

Carlos & Tock...when you guys get a chance, look at my longer post and edumecate me on the issues I brought up.

peace,

ttgb

[Carlos_E]

Science has not proven anything regarding this subject.. there are papers written for and against.....

Here you go...

Sexual orientation 'hard-wired' before birth

Startling Study Says People May Be Born Gay

Gay women less shockable than straight: study

"Gay gene" debate re-opened

[tryingtogetbig]

dude...I need cliff notes to your posts...they are too long (or at least they seem that way when you don't space them out).

I can't continue to read your posts the way you right them. I have suggested this 3 times already. I want to try and hear your opinion...but you make it very difficult.

peace,

ttgb

[spywizard]

For you to be able to hurt me,.... I would have to impower you to do so...

You seem to have some self induced grandious illusion of your self and your impotance in this world...

and if we were face to face... i know you would never call me sissy... because if you did... well...........you would get that old school time a$$ whoopin that you so dearly deserve..

Small minds............ when you are alone, and going to sleep.. know that your betters are all around you.. and we laugh at your feeble attempts to better yourself..

we smile and continue to grow our bank accounts bigger and bigger.. knowing that there will always be an endless supply of people like you... thinking small, and being small...

Hey.......... and thanks for paying into the social security pool... I will be getting all of mine........ but you will never see a dime of it....

Silly Rabbit..................

Awww, looks like I hurt someone's feelings! Grow up, sissy. I wouldn't be your friend anyways. I bounce fools like you around at my job all the time. BTW, you'd be the one in the ignorance crowd. You can't even accept homosexuality, even though it's been with us for thousands of years in many civilizations. You're doing just that, my friend. You don't understand what you're talking about, so you just bash me instead of counter arguing my statements, like an intelligent, logical, and open-minded person would.



Really? They do? I believe the more important factor is EXPERIENCE, which you have not proven to have any of. I've only been driving for 6 years, but I can guarantee I'm a much better driver than you. Why? Because I drive more often than you, and I've raced my car (on and off closed courses) ever since I started driving. I can guarantee I could out-drive a normal driver with 20+ years experience, hands down. I have practiced martial arts for only 4 years, but I practice EVERYDAY, whereas some people only have practiced it once or twice a week for 10 years. I bet ya I could walk them all over the mat, and even if I couldn't, I'd give them a helluva a good run, even with having less than half the years invested than they do.



No, I wasn't beaten up physically, just verbally. Likely from ignorant bullys like yourself.


No... keep your mouth shut because you show people how stupid and childish your opions are..................

Again, another intelligent statement, but wait! You still haven't argued against the points I made! Yep. You're a boob. [/QUOTE]

[BDTR]

Call the press!!! Bouncer and I agree on something!

I also dont feel gays should be able to adopt children.

Personally I don't care about whatever church teachings are, or the niceties of law. Two queers getting married disgusts me and I personally feel it makes a mockery of my own marriage. What they do behind closed doors doesn't bother me what so ever, I can't see it and if its between two consenting adults fair enough. BUt Marriage, don't make me laugh.

[Carlos_E]

Anyways, I would sometimes go out with gay friends to clubs on "gay night". It was kinda freaky at first, but then once I realized, "I'm not going home with any of these guys", I relaxed and had the time of my life! It's kinda fun being a tease and having all these people hit on you, even though you know they don't stand a chance with you. Now I know how straight girls feel!

SGFuryZ is a cock tease!

[spywizard]

Your responses are typical of your childish stature in society...

Hopfully one day you will grow up without causing any real harm to anyone..

and.......hey.............. keep doing that street racing........

we need the organs for those of us who have value to society......



I mean that............



(little fat kid in school.)

Keep telling yourself that.



I'm assuming you were trying to say "importance", but no, I'm not a megalomaniac. I just feel it's necessary to express my opinion if I agree/disagree with something. That is what message boards are for, to exchange ideas and opinions. If you don't like it, then you can stop posting.



Keep telling yourself that, my friend. I'd have to go easy on you so not to break your brittle bones. My JOB is to kick people's asses. I can do it tactfully and without leaving marks, or I can get lazy and send them to the hospital to get their jaw rewired, all without any legal repurcussions. (Trust me, it's happened in the past many a times. The cops just look the other way...) Hell, I even hone those very same skills in my spare time, since combat sports is a personal hobby of mine. So just keep telling yourself what you wanna think...



Right...keep telling yourself that. And who was accusing whom of being a megalomaniac?



Yup. you hit the nail on the head. Gee yer awe-fall-lee smarrt.

[Phillyboy1]

i like street racing, and gay people lol. im not gay, but dont have any quarels with them. but i do hate it when you see the total stereotypical homo. even my gay friends call them fags, and hate when they see people like that cause it reflects on them cause they are gay

[abstrack]

Good point.............

so lets assume that a gay, or murder, depressed people, all of these have no choice because of the chemical make up in thier brain....

do we treat these as a desease, seeking to fix that which society sees as out of the normal range???

And no i don't want to introduce the idea of the Natzi, and the genetic selections that were going on all through our history...

and who decides what is normal, or not............

[/QUOTE]

We already do treat depressed people, murders, hyper-active children with drugs to balance out the chemical reactions. Some of the drugs work and most of them dont.


being gay is not a disease but it still is a genetic or chemical makeup of one individual that was predispositioned at birth. As far as society try ing to fix the problem? we are constantly trying to fix or come up with some type of reasoning for the chemically unbalanced. In the old days, they had no understanding and choose to lock up or kill the different but today we tend to treat them with medications. Beiing gay though is still no disease but just a genetic make-up like you and I.

As far as a diciding factor in what is right or wrong? or what is normal or not? Normal in a sense of what? Normal in whos eyes? I guess that realies on a general census but in my eyes what I see is normal might not be the same for you or the next person but I would never judge you or inhibit you from doing the things you do and want or what you consider normal in your life.

[tryingtogetbig]

I guess that realies on a general census but in my eyes what I see is normal might not be the same for you or the next person but I would never judge you or inhibit you from doing the things you do and want or what you consider normal in your life.

A pedophile considers himself normal....would you never judge him either?

peace,

ttgb

[abstrack]

off topic but gosh damm it has been a long time since we have had a thread that wasnt started by hoss and has lasted 3+ pages of non-sense.

[abstrack]

A pedophile considers himself normal....would you never judge him either?

peace,

ttgb

Normal.....So does Charles Manson but back to my point.. It is a chemical unbalance in their brain that inhibits them from knowing right from wrong like you and I.

[spywizard]

Thank you............

I did....... but the server dumped............

I will again.. here...
And peace...............

Ok.......

My experiences are my Brother is Gay........... he was molested at age 13, he never "came out" as a matter, but the whole family knew...

5 years ago.. i was visiting... and i said "are you gay".... he was shocked, but stated... oh yea.......... and we were able to talk alot about it..
and when i am in Atlanta, he takes us to the local clubs, and when he is in Minnesota, we go there.......mess with the gay people.... and of coarse we get to interact with alot of his friends, and the life style as a whole.........

Several people i associate with are gay......... they have hit on me in the past, (especially when we go out) i tell them no i am straight, and that ends it.. I'm cool, and so are they..

My issue becomes............. i should never know if a person is gay or not.... What difference does it make... none to me.......

when i see a person walking down the street, i want to see a fellow Man, or woman........... period.... not black/white/rich/poor..........

and on this board and in groups of people..... you want to associate with people that have common interest..... ie.. body building, aas, the whole process of it, the never ending saga of attempting to be better... these are things that are of interest to me...

and simply put......... if people didn't continually try to make themselves different.. (no, i don't mean everyone has to be vanilla) everyone would probably be able to at least share thier life experiences with one another, and thus grow from the experience.


You attack............ that's ok........ but there are people that attack as a form of communications also...

I happen to agree with alot of the points you put forth... my question still hasn't been addressed...

why do i need to know what your (anyone) sexual orientation is??? Is that the only thing that makes them interesting?? don't they have something else to add that is as interesting???

So far as being closed minded..... opinions are built from experience.. if you do not have experience with an issue, you base your opinions from what you hear from others, or from what you read... or are taught

If i say i don't like carrots.......... that's my opinion... if someone says..."that's crazy"............. who is the fool........the 2nd person is simply not had the same experience , and not able to express that in a fear of being seen a fool..

Just like (i'm assuming here) you like to race............ well.. i first ran a 1969 Pontiac Grand Prix... 440 large block..............

In 1978 gas prices were going through the roof... but i still ran that car.. blew those new camaro's off the road........ yea, i know technology changes everything..

and at my age would you be supprised that one of my toys is a Jeep Wrangler.. with over 500 hp.........

the point is in this case, if people look hard enough.. they can always find common ground...

racing gives people power, and confidence.......... and the thrill is to kill for.

and....at 44 yrs old............. i am already retired.............. finacially.......

can't you tell by the times of day i am on this board????

have fun...........

Why not do what I did and post your reasoning behind your feelings towards the gay commmunity, and actually INCLUDE personal experiences and other supporting evidence as to why you feel this way. Makes you look a lot better than arguing with some "kid" about social security...

[tryingtogetbig]

We oppressed them for a period of time, so that when we actually did give them freedoms, they felt compelled to "overcompensate", which is why you see feminist groups, and minority-extremist groups like Black Panthers, and even the "thug" lifestyle.

You have a mouse in your pocket? I have never kept anyone from doing anything....

peace,

ttgb

[spywizard]

LMAO...........

peanut butter nuts............

love that....................

Cheapest upgrade.... K/N filter... it is a stock 4.0 engine.... so i like it..

it doesn't have the speed, but it will light up all 4 mud tires..... and throws alot of mud and water.......

besides even when i was racing bikes.... it was the 0-80 in 4.3 sec... that got me hot.. going 160mph......... just gives you tunnel vission.

Bump for everything you said.......

I really appreciate you posting this, Spywizard. I was beginning to think poorly of you, but this really shows me why you feel the way you feel. That's cool, and I respect that. Honestly, that's one reason I really don't like arguing on a message board, because sometimes the context of what someone writes is easily misconstrued, and that's when the flame war starts. You know, I can't even remember if I was even originally attacking your statements, but somehow we got pulled into this heated war about who knows what and why the other person is less credible.

What's funny is, like you said, there are many points we agree on, but it got lost somewhere in the sea of text that everyone was throwing in. I agree with you that it isn't necessary to know what someone's sexual orientation is. If a guy likes fat chicks, good for him, I don't wanna hear it. If someone likes to let a dog lick peanut butter off his nuts, that's his business, not mine. He doesn't have to wear a t-shirt to let everyone know about it. However, I do believe, like privacy, these people have every right and freedom to do what they will, just as all the general majority can, so long as it isn't physically, mentally, or emotionally harmful to another human being. This means pedophiles, murders, rapists, and so forth should not be allowed to exercise their desires. Gays, in general, aren't really hurting anyone.

Whether they should be allowed to adopt, well, that's a sensitive topic. I don't think they should be denied the freedom, but I do feel that an extensive background check and psychological evaluation should be performed before qualifying for adoption.

Unfortunately, the reason why gays are so "expressive" of their sexuality is no more than a product of our society, IMO. It goes the same for minorities and women. We oppressed them for a period of time, so that when we actually did give them freedoms, they felt compelled to "overcompensate", which is why you see feminist groups, and minority-extremist groups like Black Panthers, and even the "thug" lifestyle.

BTW, 500 hp jeep? ****! That humbles my 450 hp Camaro...

[tryingtogetbig]

Sorry guys for the off-topic car talk...

Yall have been off topic for the last 125 posts....why stop now?

[Elliot]

If they wanna marry let them marry.. but i dont think the stress of being "diffrent" should be put upon the shoulders of an innocent child.. just my opinion..

[Tock]

Here's one for ya Tock..

You are gay because you are insecure, and lazy....

In the gay community... even ugly gays (not alot of them) can get laid, any time of the day or night..

So when you were in the AF, and away from home for the first time, it was easy to get with guys.. .it was fun, the secracy, the naughtyness of it.. and if one guy at a party said no... there were 3 others that would say.. yea baby... a club a way to exlude others..

so no rejection, no competition (that you couldn't handle) and you get to be special for once in your life.

Just a thought................. and it may not apply to you.... but i believe there is some truth in it........????????

Mon oh man, you ought to consider writing fiction . . .
You need to come along with Cycleon for a class in Gay 101.
-Tock

[chicamahomico]

If they wanna marry let them marry.. but i dont think the stress of being "diffrent" should be put upon the shoulders of an innocent child.. just my opinion..

In this thread I keep seeing the thing about the kids and the whole "being different" and I keep thinking.....in this day and age is that really all that different? I don't think it is where I am, at least not people in my age category, but I could be wrong......maybe it just doesn't seem that different to me.

[daem]

i havn't taken the time to read any of this thread, however homosexuality is a part of our world whether we want to admit it or not. whatever someone wants to do involving their relationship is their own business.

if a man can picture himself with another man for the rest of his life, then who really gives two ****s? the divorce rate among married couples is outrageous, and they are not same sex.

these people should be allowed the same tax advantages as a heterosexual couple and allowed to live their life the way they want.

if anything i said is a reiteration of someone elses thoughts, i want to let you know i didn't steal them.

[spywizard]

Well thank you Mr Know it All......

That's pretty much what everyone said.......

who cares...........

i havn't taken the time to read any of this thread, however homosexuality is a part of our world whether we want to admit it or not. whatever someone wants to do involving their relationship is their own business.

if a man can picture himself with another man for the rest of his life, then who really gives two ****s? the divorce rate among married couples is outrageous, and they are not same sex.

these people should be allowed the same tax advantages as a heterosexual couple and allowed to live their life the way they want.

if anything i said is a reiteration of someone elses thoughts, i want to let you know i didn't steal them.

[Carlos_E]

Well thank you Mr Know it All......

That's pretty much what everyone said.......

who cares...........

Why the smart ass remark? Let him state his opinion.

[Carlos_E]

Mon oh man, you ought to consider writing fiction . . .
You need to come along with Cycleon for a class in Gay 101.
-Tock

That's exactly the reason why I asked him where he came up with that idea. It sounds like the plot to a gay porn. Maybe he should consider switching careers.

[daem]

Well thank you Mr Know it All......

That's pretty much what everyone said.......

who cares...........

155 other posts on this thread by a multitude of different users and you single me out?

stop getting your panties all in a bunch over nothing.

[spywizard]

They make gay porn????

dam_n.............. the things you learn on a bodybuilding site..

That's exactly the reason why I asked him where he came up with that idea. It sounds like the plot to a gay porn. Maybe he should consider switching careers.

[Tock]

Originally Posted by tryingtogetbig
When laws are added, deleted, or amended in the United States (and elsewhere I would assume), it is typically done for the "better good of the nation" and to have a positive affect on the "overwhelming majority."

How does this apply to gay marriage?

peace,

ttgb

bump...nobody addressed this....

I don't know previous laws were typically passed for the "better good of the nation" and positively affect the "overwhelming majority." Congress passes laws granting special tax exemptions to big businesses all the time; it's quite often done as a favor to those who make significant campaign donations.
During the Clinton years, the Army (or was it the Marines? whatever) said they didn't want any tilt-rotor aircraft, but the corporation making them had given so many congressmen big campaign donations (and promised more) that congress bought 'em the ****ed things anyway.
. . . The War On Drugs is supposed to be for the good of the country, but all it's done is put half a million people in prison and cost the taxpayers billions of $$$. It hasn't changed anything, either. People are still gonna get their weed, smack, AS, whatever, prices are gonna go up, buyers are gonna have to do business with shady characters, and organized crime and Terrorists make big profits which they use for other mischeif. Now, that crap is definately NOT good for the American public.

One aspect of granting gays the same marital rights as straights has to do with the tendency for the country to extend equal rights to more and more poeple over time. It took a Presidential proclaimation and later a constitutional amendment to give blacks equal rights with whites. Later, it took a constitutional amendment to give women the right to vote.

Ya, the US Constitution is a document that ensures citizens have their rights, and that no group of people should be unfairly deprived of the rights that another group enjoys. Extending the legal benefits of marriage to gays fits right in with one of the main goals of the Constitution: Equal rights for all citizens.
Now what President Bush and a bunch of other (expletive deleted) want to do is reverse this process. They want to pass an Amendment to the Constitution that would restrict equal rights to a group of citizens, and do so primarily because of a few verses in the Bible. There is no doubt in my mind that the folks who created the US Constitution would recoil in horror at such a thing, and would

*** Bitch Slap *** Bitch Slap *** Bitch Slap ***

anyone involved in such an effort. Restricting rights ain't what the Constitution is all about. It's about preserving them for the people. Extending marital rights to gays and lesbians is all part of that. Continuing that process, I would say, is good for the entire country. Going backward, IMHO, would be another indication that the Government is assuming more control over our private lives . . . I don't know about you, but IMHO, that's not a good thing.

--Tock

[spywizard]

Hey tock....... seriously ........ a question...

a civil union is recognized by most insurance agencies??

a civil union is recognized by the state in cases of death without a will ??

a civil union provides all the "rights" that "marriage" does in the case where the spouse becomes ill???

NOt trying to start something... just want to know.....

Originally Posted by tryingtogetbig
When laws are added, deleted, or amended in the United States (and elsewhere I would assume), it is typically done for the "better good of the nation" and to have a positive affect on the "overwhelming majority."

How does this apply to gay marriage?

peace,

ttgb




I don't know previous laws were typically passed for the "better good of the nation" and positively affect the "overwhelming majority." Congress passes laws granting special tax exemptions to big businesses all the time; it's quite often done as a favor to those who make significant campaign donations.
During the Clinton years, the Army (or was it the Marines? whatever) said they didn't want any tilt-rotor aircraft, but the corporation making them had given so many congressmen big campaign donations (and promised more) that congress bought 'em the ****ed things anyway.
. . . The War On Drugs is supposed to be for the good of the country, but all it's done is put half a million people in prison and cost the taxpayers billions of $$$. It hasn't changed anything, either. People are still gonna get their weed, smack, AS, whatever, prices are gonna go up, buyers are gonna have to do business with shady characters, and organized crime and Terrorists make big profits which they use for other mischeif. Now, that crap is definately NOT good for the American public.

One aspect of granting gays the same marital rights as straights has to do with the tendency for the country to extend equal rights to more and more poeple over time. It took a Presidential proclaimation and later a constitutional amendment to give blacks equal rights with whites. Later, it took a constitutional amendment to give women the right to vote.

Ya, the US Constitution is a document that ensures citizens have their rights, and that no group of people should be unfairly deprived of the rights that another group enjoys. Extending the legal benefits of marriage to gays fits right in with one of the main goals of the Constitution: Equal rights for all citizens.
Now what President Bush and a bunch of other (expletive deleted) want to do is reverse this process. They want to pass an Amendment to the Constitution that would restrict equal rights to a group of citizens, and do so primarily because of a few verses in the Bible. There is no doubt in my mind that the folks who created the US Constitution would recoil in horror at such a thing, and would

*** Bitch Slap *** Bitch Slap *** Bitch Slap ***

anyone involved in such an effort. Restricting rights ain't what the Constitution is all about. It's about preserving them for the people. Extending marital rights to gays and lesbians is all part of that. Continuing that process, I would say, is good for the entire country. Going backward, IMHO, would be another indication that the Government is assuming more control over our private lives . . . I don't know about you, but IMHO, that's not a good thing.

--Tock

[Tock]

When a teacher, or a coworker, or business partner tells me his or her sexual orientation, they are asking for trouble, not from me per say because my experience with gay men has always been very possitive..

I tell them no, and they don't approach anymore...

they can still be in the same group where we are enjoying a common event, but i am not so inclined..

Let's focus on this "I tell them no, and they don't approach anymore..." thing.
Are you saying that they "hit" on you?
If that's so, then I don't blame ya for not wanting to be around 'em. That sort of thing ticks me off, too. It's basically rude and crude behaviour.
Now, if you're in a setting where folks customarily hit on each other, like a bar or party or something, that's a different story. You're walking into a gay bar oozing with sex appeal is like dangling fresh meat in front of a Bengal tiger. You've always got the option to say, "Sorry, I'm straight," and that'll usually be the end of things (I've noticed that more and more straight guys go to gay bars these days; I dunno why).
Elsewhere, though, IMHO, it's tacky. Kinda like going someplace with your mom and some salesman hits on her . . .

Anyway, is this what you're talking about?
--Tock

[spywizard]

Being hit on never bothers me... if by a woman, or a guy.......

gay bars have a great floor show............ too much entertainment....50% here are straight, 50% gay in attendance.

and.......I've never met a gay guy that i couldn't get along with.......especially once we get past the "I'm Gay" issue... to see what they really are.. and the interest that they have..

now.. answer my last question.......

Let's focus on this "I tell them no, and they don't approach anymore..." thing.
Are you saying that they "hit" on you?
If that's so, then I don't blame ya for not wanting to be around 'em. That sort of thing ticks me off, too. It's basically rude and crude behaviour.
Now, if you're in a setting where folks customarily hit on each other, like a bar or party or something, that's a different story. You're walking into a gay bar oozing with sex appeal is like dangling fresh meat in front of a Bengal tiger. You've always got the option to say, "Sorry, I'm straight," and that'll usually be the end of things (I've noticed that more and more straight guys go to gay bars these days; I dunno why).
Elsewhere, though, IMHO, it's tacky. Kinda like going someplace with your mom and some salesman hits on her . . .

Anyway, is this what you're talking about?
--Tock

[Tock]

Tock.


Even if it is a choice, what difference does it make? So my boyfriend and I get together and ****. So what? Who says I have to stop? You? Your religion? In case you didn't know this . . . I am under no obligation to comply with the rules of your religion. You can, if you like. But I ain't gonna.


True, and i agree with you.......... i have never forced anyone to be like me... I believe everyone has a right to seek happiness...

The issue becomes.............. I don't have to like your choices... I don't have to like them, or accept you into my existance simply because you are a human being..
..

Of course you don't have to like my choices. You don't have to like inter-racial marriages either.
So the issue is not whether or not you have to like my choices, the issue is
Will the straight people of the US extend the same marital rights they enjoy to gays and lesbians? That's the issue . . .
Personally, I hope so. Being a "second class citizen" sucks. But, of course, you wouldn't know anything about that . . .

--Tock

[spywizard]

would you please answer #172??

thanks..

lets see.... second class citizen???? hmmm

AForce age 18.. married at 19.. bought 1st house 20.. 1st kid 20... worked and earned everything i ever got in my life...........???

2 degrees....... retired at 44........ (that doesn't mean i sit here all day typing)

please.. don't try that............. i will employ anyone willing to work..

the catch... you have to work as hard as me... heck.. i'll pay $25 hour.. cash.. all ya have to do is construction............ and we can't get enough./....

Of course you don't have to like my choices. You don't have to like inter-racial marriages either.
So the issue is not whether or not you have to like my choices, the issue is
Will the straight people of the US extend the same marital rights they enjoy to gays and lesbians? That's the issue . . .
Personally, I hope so. Being a "second class citizen" sucks. But, of course, you wouldn't know anything about that . . .

--Tock

[Symian]

the catch... you have to work as hard as me... heck.. i'll pay $25 hour.. cash.. all ya have to do is construction............ and we can't get enough./....

Hell, $25/hr? Can I come work for you!?!

Sym

[Tock]

My last concern regarding gay marriage is this...the sanctity of marriage is already at an all time low. The divorce rate is above 60% here in the USA. People don't take their wedding vows serious enough, and as soon as things start getting tough in the marriage, they bail out and get a divorce. Unfortanutely, usually there are already kids involved in the marriage by the time the parents quit trying to make it work...whole different topic though.

So, I don't want the value of a marriage to go down hill any more than it already is. I don't know that allowing gay marriages will do this, but I have a feeling that it is a strong possibility. The gay friends that I have, god bless them, are not the "marrying" type. Although they may truly settle down with 1 person sometime in the future, I don't see it happening anytime soon. I don't want to generalize an entire population off of my handfull of gay friends, but I am afraid that gay marriage divorce rate will be even higher than the hetero divorce rate (as hard to believe as that is).

I spent about a year in therapy with a psychiatrist (expensive, too), and one of the things he told me was that half of all marriages end up in divorce, and half of what's left is misery incarnate. He said that there's only about 25% of the population that are actually suited for marriage.
From what I've seen, I am inclined to agree (he was right on lots of other things, too).
So, if half of straight marriages fail, probably half of gay marriages will, as well. Of the other half that's left, well, the miserable ones may stay together for "the good of the kids," but if the gay marriages don't have kids, those relationships will probably fail as well.
So, ya, I can see gay divorce rates beating out straight divorce rates, but primarily because of the lack of kids to hold things together.

I think a happy marriage will always be the ideal, one that everyone will hope to acheive, but humans being what we are, not too many will make it. It would help an awful lot if kids could learn how to have healthy relationships at home, but so many parents are either so screwed up themselves, or they don't have time to do things right, that the kids lose out. Probably remedial training in how to have healthy relationships would help . . .
Since I'm in that 75% unsuited for marriage (thanks to my folk's dysfunctional marriage), I'd need some of that remedial training myself.


That's about all I can say about that . . . it is what it is . . .
--Tock