Greater Israel: A Dream Closer to Fulfillment

[BOUNCER]

Why would they? To lose control of the most powerful country in the world? It was the same in Europe before America became the superpower it is today.

FM

Well I'm not likely to take someone's reply here with a Rommel Avatar and name here as balanced. But thinks for reading some of the thread all the same.

[OGPackin]

1) I would be surprised if the US does not spy on Israel. IMHO, if the US had a rational foreign policy, it wouldn't be necessary. Also, IMHO, if the US gives another country a few hundred billion $$$ over a period of years, you certainly wouldn't expect it to spy on its benefactor, and certainly not turn over top secret national defense information to the Soviet Union!

2) No, it is NOT "anti-Israel" to suggest that they should not have done what they did. It is, however, irrational to suggest that Israel should not experience some sort of retaliation for passing US military secrets to its enemies.
Maybe you think it's ok for foreign nations to take billions of $$$ in foreign aid then spy on us. That's your privilege. I, however, think that betrays the trust we had placed in our supposed "ally."
Do I harbor "anti-Israel thoughts?" Not at all. I ain't exactly pleased with them taking our $$$ and then spying on us. What I do harbor are pro-Justice notions that require Israel to move back to the land granted it by the United Nations in 1947, and to stop building settlements outside its territory, and to remove the existing settlements. See, what they're doing is exactly the same thing if Mexico decided they wanted more territory and started having their military protect Mexican settlements in Texas and Arizona and New Mexico and California. There's no way that US citizens would stand for that; and there's no reason for Palestinians to have to put up with Israel doing it to them.

Justice requires everyone to move back to their own territory. And Justice is what I support, and f*** the fundamentalists who oppose Justice and clamor over some ancient religious text.

--Tock

Looks like someone STILL hasnt watched the links....shame

OG

[OGPackin]

Well I'm not likely to take someone's reply here with a Rommel Avatar and name here as balanced. But thinks for reading some of the thread all the same.

BWAHAHAHAHA

[chicamahomico]

But your so wrong. Look at Israel and what they've done in 50 years!. They've turned a country which was desert in the south and maleria smampland in the north into the succesfully beautifull country they enjoy today. Where the Arabs p*ssed and Sh*t into the Jordan river since christ walked the earth, look at how Israel powered a country from it, among other things. I dare anyone to visit Israel and not come back a believer.

I don't think it's possible for 'I don't give a ****' to ever be the wrong answer when the situations effect on my life is limited to the airtime it recives on CNN. Having never been to the middle east and not being Jewish or Palistinian my opinion my opinion means squat.

But just to have some fun with your post I pose you this question:

Lets say a technologically superior more intelligent race, say Canadians, came to Ireland and decided to turn it into a nicer place.....with Molson instead of Guiness, Hockey instaed of bellyboxing,and so on. How would you feel about that?

[BOUNCER]

Yah, and if I recall correctly, Israel invaded Lebanon not because it had done anything, but because Israel wanted to establish a "security zone" in your territory?
It seemed to me that if they wanted to set up a security zone in their own territory, that would be one thing, but in your territory, that would be quite another . . .
It's been a while, but I recall rooting for your side of the battle . . .
--Tock

Ah, at last an idiot. If you knew anything about operation Peace for Galilee and Operation Litani you'd know that Israel invaded in 1978 and again in 1981 to route of PLO attacks on the northern Galilee and we welcomed into the country by the native Lebanese. In fact, through their (the IDF's) advance along the Naqoura road into Tyre, Sidon (Saida) and Beirut their were welcomed with the Lebanese tradition of throwing rice into their (the IDF) path and wake. The mistake the IDF made was two fold. It out stayed its welcome into the country and pleaced its trusted into UNIFIL (UN resolution 425 and 426). The UNIFIL mandate was too weak to enforce a security zone and so as a result the IDF has to set up its own security zone to protect its boards against PLO, and then later Hezbollah and Amal attacks into the Northern Galilee.

Tock, mark my words, there are very few people here who can argue with my knowledge of South Lebanon from 1978 to the present day. Do so at your peril, you'll lose.

[FmRommel]

Well I'm not likely to take someone's reply here with a Rommel Avatar and name here as balanced. But thinks for reading some of the thread all the same.

Well I saw that coming a mile away…and yes Bouncer I have read the entire thread and actually I have been following it for quite a while. The reason I had yet to say anything was because I knew that a dumb ass comment like that was sure to arise…

Thank you for confirming that.

FM

[Tock]

Ummmm, Tock and u dont think the US doesnt spy on isreal ur frickin nutz!! We spy on everyone!! Allies or not. Or are u just so blinded by ur anti-isreal thoughts that u dont realize that? Come'on now! Should we be calling another spade a spade?

OG

Read what I wrote a bit closer.
I said,
"Originally Posted by Tock
I don't doubt that there's lots of spying between countries going on."

Read and think before you post, thank you.

--Tock

[Red Ketchup]

But your so wrong. Look at Israel and what they've done in 50 years!. They've turned a country which was desert in the south and maleria smampland in the north into the succesfully beautifull country they enjoy today. Where the Arabs p*ssed and Sh*t into the Jordan river since christ walked the earth, look at how Israel powered a country from it, among other things.

And you are of course 100% right about that... Israelians (sp?) have come a long long way, turning a hellhole into what appears to be a beautifull oasis of a country.

And I also read that in the cases where illegal settlements were given back to arabs, they gave them beautifull fixed up areas with gardens and all, and within months it was turned to shît and is falling apart today.

Personally my only beef with Israel is their expansion efforts... this is the 20th century, you can't just take what you want from your neigbour because you have bigger guns (even if those neigbours still live in the 8th century...). Oh, and yeah, I also don't like their mossad assassins using Canadian passports use New-Zealanders, they're even more peacefull than us!

Red

[Tock]

Originally Posted by bdtr
Call me an anti-semite then, no sweat off my back at all. To answer your question, Israel has a stranglehold on the USA and its descions, for their own good, not for the mutual good of both nations.

Hmmmm...funny, i can remember someone else thinking the same thing....Hitler! Real nice. We have nothing else to say to one another.

OG

I don't think Hitler ever thought that . . . he was dead long before the UN gave Israel land in the middle east . . .
But thanks for playing . . . want to try again?
--Tock

[FmRommel]

Well I'm not likely to take someone's reply here with a Rommel Avatar and name here as balanced. But thinks for reading some of the thread all the same.

BTW...I am not likely to take someone's reply here who used to have an Israeli flag in their sig as balanced.


FM

[BOUNCER]

I don't think it's possible for 'I don't give a ****' to ever be the wrong answer when the situations effect on my life is limited to the airtime it recives on CNN. Having never been to the middle east and not being Jewish or Palistinian my opinion my opinion means squat.

But just to have some fun with your post I pose you this question:

Lets say a technologically superior more intelligent race, say Canadians, came to Ireland and decided to turn it into a nicer place.....with Molson instead of Guiness, Hockey instaed of bellyboxing,and so on. How would you feel about that?

Read the replies here, and consider. There has NEVER been an Palestinian land, ruled over by a people called Palestinans. Here's something to ponder




If you believe what you read in most news sources, Palestinians want a homeland and Muslims want control over sites they consider holy. Simple, right?

The truth is that Palestine is no more real than Never-Never Land. The first time the name was used was in 70 A.D. when the Romans committed genocide against the Jews, smashed the Temple and declared the land of Israel would be no more. From then on, the Romans promised, it would be known as Palestine. The name was derived from the Philistines, a Goliathian people conquered by the Jews centuries earlier. It was a way for the Romans to add insult to injury. They also tried to change the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina, but that had even less staying power.

Palestine has never existed -- before or since -- as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland.

There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass.

But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness. No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough.

What about Islam's holy sites? There are none in Jerusalem. Shocked? You should be. I don't expect you will ever hear this brutal truth from anyone else in the international media. It's just not politically correct.

I know what you're going to say: "Farah, the Al Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem represent Islam's third most holy sites." Not true. In fact, the Koran says nothing about Jerusalem. It mentions Mecca hundreds of times. It mentions Medina countless times. It never mentions Jerusalem. With good reason. There is no historical evidence to suggest Mohammed ever visited Jerusalem.

So how did Jerusalem become the third holiest site of Islam? Muslims today cite a vague passage in the Koran, the seventeenth Sura, entitled "The Night Journey." It relates that in a dream or a vision Mohammed was carried by night "from the sacred temple to the temple that is most remote, whose precinct we have blessed, that we might show him our signs. ..." In the seventh century, some Muslims identified the two temples mentioned in this verse as being in Mecca and Jerusalem. And that's as close as Islam's connection with Jerusalem gets -- myth, fantasy, wishful thinking.

Meanwhile, Jews can trace their roots in Jerusalem back to the days of Abraham.

The latest round of violence in Israel erupted when Likud Party leader Ariel Sharon tried to visit the Temple Mount, the foundation of the Temple built by Solomon. It is the holiest site for Jews. Sharon and his entourage were met with stones and threats. I know what it's like. I've been there.

Can you imagine what it is like for Jews to be threatened, stoned and physically kept out of the holiest site in Judaism? So what's the solution to the Middle East mayhem? Well, frankly, I don't think there is a man-made solution to the violence. But, if there is one, it needs to begin with truth. Pretending will only lead to more chaos.

Treating a 5,000-year-old birthright backed by overwhelming historical and archaeological evidence equally with illegitimate claims, wishes and wants gives diplomacy and peacekeeping a bad name.

Shalom

Bouncer

[Tock]

Seems like nothing is ever going to change in the middle east. If it was up to me I would just ignore them for 10 years, check to see if anyting has changed, which it won't. Ignore, check, repeat.....then I would only have to hear about it once every ten years.

That makes a lot of sense . . .
Seems to me if the US got its nose out of the area and let things sort themselves out without US interference, the Arabs and Israelis would settle the property question pretty quick, then the Arabs wouldn't have much else left to do but sell oil.
I'll vote for you this November . . . or maybe you want a job as head of the State Department?
-Tock

[BOUNCER]

Well I saw that coming a mile away…and yes Bouncer I have read the entire thread and actually I have been following it for quite a while. The reason I had yet to say anything was because I knew that a dumb ass comment like that was sure to arise…

Thank you for confirming that.

FM

Who's the dumbass the person sitting comfortably in Boston, another Neo-Nazi I see in this thread or me, who has posted photogrpahic evidence of having served in region in question?.

[Tock]

I dare any christian or Jew o go visit Israel with a open mind and not come back fully supportive of Israel.

I suppose the same thing could be said of Palestine. Lots of nice folks over there, just like in Israel.
To support one over the other only contributes to the problems.
--Tock

[BOUNCER]

One final thing Chicomohomico. checkout Canadian troops serving on te Golan with UNTSO. No need for the US to checkout the region every ten yrs when you have someo of your fellow country men doing it for them!.

[BOUNCER]

I suppose the same thing could be said of Palestine. Lots of nice folks over there, just like in Israel.
To support one over the other only contributes to the problems.
--Tock

where's Palestine?. Never heard of it.

[OGPackin]

Who's the dumbass the person sitting comfortably in Boston, another Neo-Nazi I see in this thread or me, who has posted photogrpahic evidence of having served in region in question?.

I vote Neo-Nazi...

OG

[Tock]

Originally Posted by inheritmylife
Congratulations bdtr...

Hey n00b, if u dont have anything constructive to add keep ur 244 posts since July of 03 out of this disagreement! thxs and have a nice day

OG

I suppose you'd encourage more of his opinions if they concurred with your own?
Sheesh . . . sure am glad you weren't around to vote on the Bill of Rights . . .
--Tock

[BOUNCER]

Originally Posted by inheritmylife
Congratulations bdtr...




I suppose you'd encourage more of his opinions if they concurred with your own?
Sheesh . . . sure am glad you weren't around to vote on the Bill of Rights . . .
--Tock

Maybe its just me, but does that make sense to anyone else?

[chicamahomico]

...I'll vote for you this November . . . or maybe you want a job as head of the State Department?
-Tock

Tock, I would take the job but I'm afraid if I get in close physical proximity to Dubya, I would not be able to resist the urge to slap him silly.

[Tock]

Look at Israel and what they've done in 50 years!. They've turned a country which was desert in the south and maleria smampland in the north into the succesfully beautifull country they enjoy today. Where the Arabs p*ssed and Sh*t into the Jordan river since christ walked the earth, look at how Israel powered a country from it, among other things.

Sure, thanks to hundreds of billions of $$$ in foreign aid.
Pour that same $$$ into Palestine, and similar magic would happen. Not quite the same, though, because the UN back in 1947 gave Israel the very best farmlands . . .
--Tock

[OGPackin]

Sure, thanks to hundreds of billions of $$$ in foreign aid.
Pour that same $$$ into Palestine, and similar magic would happen. Not quite the same, though, because the UN back in 1947 gave Israel the very best farmlands . . .
--Tock

Bouncer, can u believe he still hasnt clink on ur link? hahaha

OG

[BOUNCER]

Sure, thanks to hundreds of billions of $$$ in foreign aid.
Pour that same $$$ into Palestine, and similar magic would happen. Not quite the same, though, because the UN back in 1947 gave Israel the very best farmlands . . .
--Tock

The very best farmlands, read the bloody links I posted you dope.. Don't keep spilling ill researched replies to me an insulting my intellience. I'm staying up late here in the hope that someone here other than myself and OG which makes sense and is based on factual research. Israel's created co-operative farming because the land was so bad in both the desert south and the malaria ridden swamplands of the north. As for the aid you speak off, ask your congressman what happened to the aid he voted through for the Palestinain authority pre-Ehud Barak and what happened to that aid.

Before qouting 1947 to me again, do yourself and me a favour and reerach your subject first please because your making no sense to me here.

Btw, am I safe in the knowledge you guys actually support Militiaguys avatar here and its meaning?. How quick you guys forget 9/11, shame on you.

[FmRommel]

Who's the dumbass the person sitting comfortably in Boston, another Neo-Nazi I see in this thread or me, who has posted photogrpahic evidence of having served in region in question?.

Neo-Nazi? Why am I a Neo-Nazi? Because I seem to disagreee with your point of view? I honestly respect the fact that you fought and served in the Middle-East. Dont label me a Neo-Nazi because you dont like my point of view.

FM

[BDTR]

I'm a neo-nazi now? Wow maybe me and rommel should get together and take over the world. That's like me labeling you a communist zionist for supporting both Israel and the IRA, which i wont do. Dont put labels on me please, as i've put none on you.

Who's the dumbass the person sitting comfortably in Boston, another Neo-Nazi I see in this thread or me, who has posted photogrpahic evidence of having served in region in question?.

[FmRommel]

I vote Neo-Nazi...

OG

Youre just an idiot.

FM

[BDTR]

It's balenced simply because it's bouncers opinion and he sides with Israel. Anyone not siding with Israel, their arguement is automatically rejected and stigmatized as neo-nazi.

BTW...I am not likely to take someone's reply here who used to have an Israeli flag in their sig as balanced.


FM

[BOUNCER]

Neo-Nazi? Why am I a Neo-Nazi? Because I seem to disagreee with your point of view? I honestly respect the fact that you fought and served in the Middle-East. Dont label me a Neo-Nazi because you dont like my point of view.

FM

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and qwacks (sp'ing) like a duck, its a duck.

Bdtr, I never called you a Neo-Nazi.

[Tock]

Don't . . . insulting my intellience.

Something tells me that would be difficult to do . . .
-Tock

[BDTR]

That labels three people, FM rommel, someone else and you and i dont see you calling tock a neo-nazi...

"who's the dumbass the person sitting comfortably in Boston, another Neo-Nazi I see in this thread or me"

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and qwacks (sp'ing) like a duck, its a duck.

Bdtr, I never called you a Neo-Nazi.

[OGPackin]

Youre just an idiot.

FM

hahaha...all i can do is laugh.

OG

[OGPackin]

That labels three people, FM rommel, someone else and you and i dont see you calling tock a neo-nazi...

"who's the dumbass the person sitting comfortably in Boston, another Neo-Nazi I see in this thread or me"

he was talking about FmRommel

OG

[BOUNCER]

Guys, as enjoyable as I like a good debate, time is on your side. Its 3am here, and I'm off to bed. I'll look in tomorrow and see

Bdtr, I'll repeat it. I never called you a Neo-Nazi. I see no evidence in this thread which would support me calling you that.

Tock ,take care my good man and I hope you never have cause to say you regret my stance on militiaguys avatar, because if you do, sadly it'll be another attack on the free world.

OG. Erez Israel. Yalla, I'm off.

[chicamahomico]

MilitiaGuy posted Islamic propoganda, I think it's only fair that we post some Jewish propoganda: http://www.conceptwizard.com/info.html Look at this crap....if this site isn't garbage I don't know what is.

And yes, this is the same site that was posted earlier by Bouncer and OG.

[BOUNCER]

Chico, the links to the 'video' isn't Zionist propaganda, its historical fact. Other krap on the site is propaganda, but show me someone who doesn't use it.

Now fcukers let me go to bed.

[Elliot]

come on guys i want to be part of the cool group.. yay for isreal..#!@

[OGPackin]

Good night my friend!

OG

[Tock]

1) Tock ,take care my good man
2) and I hope you never have cause to say you regret my stance on militiaguys avatar, because if you do, sadly it'll be another attack on the free world.

1) Ok, I'll consider being "your good man" after a date or two. I don't mean to discourage you, but I don't kiss on the first date . . .

2) So . . . an attack on your stance on militiaguy's avatar represents an attack on the free world?

Tell you what . . . forget #1. There's no way you'd be my type . . .

--Tock

[Cycleon]

while I seem to have innumerable reasons to be perinially pissed at Israel's way of dealing with their problem over there lets not group Hezbolla in their with good guys of any type.

All of you should know that these guys make Osama look like teenagers taking their first drive - they are the ones who basically came up with the idea of suicide bombers - they are also smart enought to have gained legitimate political power in lebanon while getting the silly palestinians to do all the dirty work for them - yet they are the main ones training and doing all the logistics.

Now it is a fact that they have not done anything against the US for awhile - but that is not neccessarily always the case - they certainly have in the past and their rhetoric claims that they are aiming to do so in the future

[PurePower]

Im ready to fight if they bring those sucidebombers over here.....Ive been just waiting to try out my new H&K G36K Carbine. IM ALWAYS ON THE LOOKOUT!!!