Greater Israel: A Dream Closer to Fulfillment

[Carlos_E]

_________________------------edited-----------__________________

That is not the kind of stuff I want to see - restrain yourself - because for a terrorist, he is coming across more peacefully than you in this rant - CYCLEON

In other words he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about and has nothing to contribute to this thread so he'll just spew stereotypes and hate he's heard from other people.

[rambo]

Bouncer, every single quote you pulled from the Koran was very far out of context. As a matter of fact I looked up several of those, and they weren't even CLOSE to being in context You can take any scripture and quote "a word" from it surrounded by a propagated interpretation.

As for the ridiculous rant above, that doesn't even need a justified response, I think Carlos covered it well.

Militia Guy you stated that you would be a contributing member of American Society... how do you intend to do that if you harbor hate for Americans?

[Rak_Ani]

Hello again,
With a careful smile on my face I'm here to inform those who still haven't heard that this moring Sheich Achmed Yasin, "the Palestinian Bin Laden", as the IDF chief of staff called him, was finally eliminated by Israeli air force fighter jets (yes, American made for all those who will insist on developing that into a new argument). Yassin, the spiritual leader of Hamas, was responsible for the deaths of many many innocent civilians, and for the "production" of palestinian suicide bombers both male and female. I just hope Israel manages to block the wave of attempts to "revange" his death.

[Tock]

Hello again,
With a careful smile on my face I'm here to inform those who still haven't heard that this moring Sheich Achmed Yasin, "the Palestinian Bin Laden", as the IDF chief of staff called him, was finally eliminated by Israeli air force fighter jets (yes, American made for all those who will insist on developing that into a new argument). Yassin, the spiritual leader of Hamas, was responsible for the deaths of many many innocent civilians, and for the "production" of palestinian suicide bombers both male and female. I just hope Israel manages to block the wave of attempts to "revange" his death.

It's bad form to gloat over anyone's death, even an adversary.
IMHO, the only thing that will accomplish is (1) someone will take his place, and (2) Palestinians have new reasons to be angry with Israel, and (3) peace efforts have been set back another few years.
But go ahead, fuel the bitterness, frustration, and hatred if you must.
-Tock

[palme]

Hello again,
I just hope Israel manages to block the wave of attempts to "revange" his death.

I trouly do to Rak Ani.

He got what he deserved. I heard 2 of his sons died in the attack aswell.

[Animal Cracker]

Hello again,With a careful smile on my face I'm here to inform those who still haven't heard that this moring Sheich Achmed Yasin, "the Palestinian Bin Laden", as the IDF chief of staff called him, was finally eliminated by Israeli air force fighter jets (yes, American made for all those who will insist on developing that into a new argument). Yassin, the spiritual leader of Hamas, was responsible for the deaths of many many innocent civilians, and for the "production" of palestinian suicide bombers both male and female. I just hope Israel manages to block the wave of attempts to "revange" his death.

Best news I have heard since the Serbs massing troops on the border to Kosovo!

[Rak_Ani]

It's bad form to gloat over anyone's death, even an adversary.
IMHO, the only thing that will accomplish is (1) someone will take his place, and (2) Palestinians have new reasons to be angry with Israel, and (3) peace efforts have been set back another few years.
But go ahead, fuel the bitterness, frustration, and hatred if you must.

-Tock

Actually, this will accomplish a few more things:
1. The terrorist leaders will be scared
2. They will know Israel gets to everyone, eventually.
3. Because they will be scared, they will talk less on the phone, move around less, hide more, and will have a harder time planing terror attacks.

Someone might take his place, or an internal "war" will start over who takes his place, and hopefully if that happens it will weaken them.
Palestinians don't need reasons to be angry with Israel. They make them up even when that requires a very developed imagination.
Peace efforts are pointless as long as the other side takes their flags to half pole and attends the funeral of major terrorists. Like I said before, the Palestinians aren't ready for peace with Israel and have proven that many times.
I don't know what gloat means, but I figure it's something like be happy about. If I'm right, then of course I'd be happy. Just as you probably would be if Bin Laden was killed and just like my grandparents were when Hitler died.
And one last thing, if you don't mind explaining to me how my expression of my feelings is fueling hatred.....I mean, it's not like I was, let me see....blowing up children on buses in the middle of civilian areas....was I?

[MilitiaGuy]

Militia Guy you stated that you would be a contributing member of American Society... how do you intend to do that if you harbor hate for Americans?

i harbor hate for the american governemet not for the american ppl

[tryingtogetbig]

i harbor hate for the american governemet not for the american ppl

one and the same....

[tryingtogetbig]

It's bad form to gloat over anyone's death, even an adversary.
IMHO, the only thing that will accomplish is (1) someone will take his place, and (2) Palestinians have new reasons to be angry with Israel, and (3) peace efforts have been set back another few years.
But go ahead, fuel the bitterness, frustration, and hatred if you must.
-Tock

I knew you would post something along these lines.

If your adversary continually attacks and kills your citizens, then yes, gloat over their death. If your adversary doesn't like...kill them again.

Whomever takes his place will face the same demise...they are all realizing that right now.

Palestinians will always be angry...now they'll just know that death is the ultimate outcome of their cowardly efforts.

Peace efforts will never happen when the leader won't even consider peace talks...kind of surprised you even posted this. Yasin wouldn't even consider holding peace talks....so what peace process are you talking about?

peace,
ttgb

[BOUNCER]

Actually, this will accomplish a few more things:
1. The terrorist leaders will be scared
2. They will know Israel gets to everyone, eventually.
3. Because they will be scared, they will talk less on the phone, move around less, hide more, and will have a harder time planing terror attacks.

Someone might take his place, or an internal "war" will start over who takes his place, and hopefully if that happens it will weaken them.
Palestinians don't need reasons to be angry with Israel. They make them up even when that requires a very developed imagination.
Peace efforts are pointless as long as the other side takes their flags to half pole and attends the funeral of major terrorists. Like I said before, the Palestinians aren't ready for peace with Israel and have proven that many times.
I don't know what gloat means, but I figure it's something like be happy about. If I'm right, then of course I'd be happy. Just as you probably would be if Bin Laden was killed and just like my grandparents were when Hitler died.
And one last thing, if you don't mind explaining to me how my expression of my feelings is fueling hatred.....I mean, it's not like I was, let me see....blowing up children on buses in the middle of civilian areas....was I?

Bump for a reply from Tock.

[OGPackin]

Bump for a reply from Tock.

His response will be. "hey M'guy, what does ur avatar mean"... sorry had to.

OG

[Superhuman]

_________________------------edited-----------__________________

That is not the kind of stuff I want to see - restrain yourself - because for a terrorist, he is coming across more peacefully than you in this rant - CYCLEON

hey i'm sorry about that, this is an issue that really angers me - I'm sure you understand. I'll be a little more, uh, reserved from now on. Sorry about that... have mercy please.

[Tock]

From Yahoo News . . .
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For the first time Monday, Hamas threatened the United States and suggested it might seek outside help in carrying out revenge attacks.

"The Zionists didn't carry out their operation without getting the consent of the terrorist American administration and it (the United States) must take responsibility for this crime," Hamas said in a statement. "All the Muslims of the world will be honored to join in on the retaliation for this crime."

In the past, Hamas has refrained from targeting U.S. citizens or interests, instead focusing on fund-raising and recruitment within the United States, according to senior U.S. law enforcement officials.

Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge was heeding the Hamas terror warning.

"If they are threatening the United States, we have to take it quite seriously," he told reporters in Washington.

While not condemning the assassination, the State Department said it increases tensions and would make it harder to pursue peace in the Middle East. "We are troubled," spokesman Richard Boucher said.

President Bush (news - web sites)'s national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice (news - web sites), told NBC that "it is very important that everyone step back and try now to be calm in the region."

But Israel said it will press ahead with more targeted attacks and raids.
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One of the consequences of the latest killing will be Hamas turning its attention to the US. I sure hope they don't, but if they do, and if they kill a few Americans, it's gonna be courtesy of Israel's "eye for an eye" strategy and Hamas' desire for revenge.
I can understand why they would consider the US to be Israel's ally in this mess, considereing the US gives 'em $9 billion every year in foreign aid and god knows what else.
The UN called the attack "Illegal," leaders of just about every country around the world called the attack illegal (from what I heard on radio reports this afternoon), but George Bush didn't say a dmn thing; as the above news clip says, "While not condemning the assassination, the State Department said it increases tensions and would make it harder to pursue peace in the Middle East. "We are troubled," spokesman Richard Boucher said."

Once again, that leaves the US as the only country on the planet not condemning Israeli violence. The US condemns lots of Palestinian violence, but only rarely, Israeli violence. This fact is not lost on foreign terrorists, and because of this foolish policy, people in the US may be visited by bomb-toting terrorists.

Nevertheless, as the news clip mentioned, "But Israel said it will press ahead with more targeted attacks and raids." And when they do, that should only serve to give Hamas and other terrorist groups more resolve to attack Americans.


IMHO, the best way to fix the Palestinian-Israeli problem is
1) Make the inhabitants of illegal settlements in Palestine move back to Israel, according to previously passed UN resolutions.
2) Make Israel move all of its 'stuff' back behind the 1947 boundries granted them by the UN, also according to several previously passed UN resolutions.
3) Send in a UN security force as a buffer between Israel and the Palestinian territory.
4) Wean Isreal of the $9 Billion annual foreign aid supply (redirect it to proper AS education conducted by Cycleon and other luminaries on this board--do something useful with all that $$$)

I for one don't give a rat's ass about who's religious book says what about what property, and I really don't want to be bothered with it. Isreal may or may not have owned all that land over there 3000 years ago, but they lost it, fair and square, the same way lots of other countries lost their territory, and the same way the US indians lost theirs. The losers don't get to have it given back to them on a silver platter just because they wave a religious text; otherwise US indians would have precedent to throw out all the Anglos and what-not out and re-take North America.

But that's just common sense. And it's too **** bad, because we've got a bunch of gd idiots running US foreign policy, and because of their foolishness, people here in the US are gonna get hurt. Needlessly.

--Tock

[BOUNCER]

So what your saying Tock is that your a coward without backbone?. These people have always threatened Israel and warned Europe and the USA would be next. And as for Jews being handed Israel on a silver platter, well sorry mate but its hardly been a silver platter.

[Cycleon]

Nah - the real falacy is that you can have a peace untill one side wins a war - until one side (Israel or arabs) decisively WINS (utterly annhilates the others capability to militarily respond) - there is no point in discussing a truce - because each side is still trying to WIN, ie. take all.

I cant really blame either side for wanting it - but of course as American, my ally is Israel and they are quite useful while the syrians, lebonese and PLO is not... so hopefully Israel can continue to exterminate them

[tryingtogetbig]

Nah - the real falacy is that you can have a peace untill one side wins a war - until one side (Israel or arabs) decisively WINS (utterly annhilates the others capability to militarily respond) - there is no point in discussing a truce - because each side is still trying to WIN, ie. take all.

I cant really blame either side for wanting it - but of course as American, my ally is Israel and they are quite useful while the syrians, lebonese and PLO is not... so hopefully Israel can continue to exterminate them

Exactly....Isreal was getting attacked before they took control over any of the land that is in question. If they gave the land back, it wouldn't change anything. Still be suicide bombers etc. Isreal just needs to finish them off this time.

Oh yeah, the UN is worthless nowadays Tock. It doesn't and shouldn't have any power at all. Giving third world countries the same power to vote was good in theory and appropriate at one time...not anymore.

peace,

ttgb

[Tock]

So what your saying Tock is that your a coward without backbone?. These people have always threatened Israel and warned Europe and the USA would be next. And as for Jews being handed Israel on a silver platter, well sorry mate but its hardly been a silver platter.

Geez, you have such a way with words . . .

No, not a "coward without backbone," but rather a disinterested American in foreigner's territorial squabbles who has better things to do than throw billions of tax $$$ at a hopeless situation.
Now, thanks to the Bush Administration's support of Israel's illegal crap, now Hamas has the US in its target, and innocent people over here are gonna get hurt.

One of these days, the Arabs are gonna get tired of this and stop selling oil to the US and its allies. I dunno if you were around in '73 and '74 when they did this, but it wasn't pretty. Gas lines for miles, gas prices nearly tripled. Energy prices sky-high, which resulted in economic problems everywhere.
They've done it twice before, and they can do it again. When they do, it'll be lots worse because the US is much more reliant on oil imports than back then. Current foreign policy makes the US vulnerable to Arab oil blackmail, and sooner or later they're gonna do what they think they gotta do.
Foreigners (mostly Arabs) own about 40% of the US debt in the form of US Treasury Bonds. They could sell them and put their $$$ into Euros, and if they transferred enough, you'd be looking at double digit inflation, job losses out the wazoo, all sorts of unpleasant things . . .

With that in mind, it only makes sense for the US, as well as its allies, to get along with everyone in the middle east. Supporting one side over the other ain't the way to do it . . . instead, the US should be supporting Justice for everyone over there. Until this happens, I can't help but be critical of the Bush Administration's approach to foreign policy.

--Tock

[Tock]

Oh yeah, the UN is worthless nowadays Tock. It doesn't and shouldn't have any power at all. Giving third world countries the same power to vote was good in theory and appropriate at one time...not anymore.

Same attitude Americans had toward the League of Nations after WWI, which is what (in part) precipitated WW2. Without a UN, there would be no international body for countries to work out problems.

Nah, I'm not gonna write an essay on the virtues of the UN; if you want that there's plenty of that written by eggheads smarter than I. Suffice it to say, though, that America shouldn't retreat into isolationism.

-Tock

[tryingtogetbig]

Now, thanks to the Bush Administration's support of Israel's illegal crap, now Hamas has the US in its target, and innocent people over here are gonna get hurt.

Tock...sometimes you are really insightful, others you let your bitterness show too much. Are you saying that the US just started having ties with Isreal since Bush came into office? He's only been in office a little over three years for cyring out loud.

Oh yeah...innocent people over here have already been hurt. September 11 ring a bell? Clinton didn't doing anything for the 8 years he was in office...look what it got us.

Nice try on attempting to spread more of your anti-republican bullshlt again though.

peace,

ttgb

[tryingtogetbig]

Same attitude Americans had toward the League of Nations after WWI, which is what (in part) precipitated WW2.

Why did the LON fail? Could it be because of the similarities between it and the current UN?

So what the LON failed. It didn't hurt the US in the long run....probably better that it did fail. In this world the more powerful will survive in the end. You can be less powerful and stay in existence, but when you start fuking with more powerful countries you will lose. Look at Isreal and Palestine if you need an example of what I am talking about.

peace,

ttgb

[Rak_Ani]

Tock, stop being such a coward. These terrorists have hated you - the US long before Israel even existed. They hated you the day your companies started showing interest in the ME because for them you symbolize the west they are so desperately fighting against. You were the invadors. The people who's women wear short skirts, and don't cover their faces. The "corrupted world" that the Islam is so much against. You brought to their countries the "corruptions" of the democratic world, and their leaders hate you for it. Do you know what the Islamic Brotherhood is? (I hope I translated it correctly). Was Israel around when they were formed? I don't think so.
You can blame Israel for a lot of things. The hate the Arab world has for America isn't one of them.