PCT- Is it worth it?

Now before i start getting flamed and abused let me just make it clear that i DO think PCT is a must however in the hope of an objectible argument may i say that it is not worth it as most people seem to break out real bad whilst on clomid and during their PCT after getting very little or no breakouts whilst on a cycle. If by scrapping the the PCT and in particluar clomid and perhaps using some herbal medication to bring blood levels back and also maybe creatine to maintain growth is the clomid really worth the terrible acne that the majority of users experience with it?
I know there are going to be a lot of people who say 'acne- small price to pay' and 'if your worried about that then your not committed enough for juice' however for some this is not a small price to pay and some people cannot cope with it regaurdless of how committed they are to training and diet. Just a thought........

PCT is not only necessary if you want to keep your willy working

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Originally Posted by Justoid

Now before i start getting flamed and abused let me just make it clear that i DO think PCT is a must however in the hope of an objectible argument may i say that it is not worth it as most people seem to break out real bad whilst on clomid and during their PCT after getting very little or no breakouts whilst on a cycle. If by scrapping the the PCT and in particluar clomid and perhaps using some herbal medication to bring blood levels back and also maybe creatine to maintain growth is the clomid really worth the terrible acne that the majority of users experience with it?
I know there are going to be a lot of people who say 'acne- small price to pay' and 'if your worried about that then your not committed enough for juice' however for some this is not a small price to pay and some people cannot cope with it regaurdless of how committed they are to training and diet. Just a thought........

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No flame but crazy idea. PCT is a must... A must.... never go without it. Clomid is needed to bring lh levels back to normal and nolva helps recovery and prevention of gyno. Creating and herbal garbage isn't going to do shet . Just tan if you are afraid of the gyno....

i went without PCT before, lost everything and some, i was so mentally upset from loosing some strength i left the gym for a month. so in plain english my cycle was worthless

ive never heard of acne from clomid. IM taking clomid now and havent seen anything. try proacitve that works well. You should definitely take it though

Its part of a cycle. Would you skip the last chapter of a great book?

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Originally Posted by ImmmtheIceman

ive never heard of acne from clomid. IM taking clomid now and havent seen anything. try proacitve that works well. You should definitely take it though

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clomid doesnt cause ance, your test drops off and you have that estrogen rebound it seems while in PCT until you test levels get back up, but if you havent ever had ance chances are you wont get it, i get a few pimples, but nothing close to acne

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Originally Posted by usualsuspect

Its part of a cycle. Would you skip the last chapter of a great book?

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Great analogy bro.... :lift:

hey noob

It's not needed if you are doing steroids that don't impact much on Hypofyse/hypothalamus Feedback...

That would mean most "prescription" steroids:

Cycles that don't need PCT (doing it is offcourse best but not essential)

Week 1-8 Primobolan Depot
or:
Week 1-6 Winstrol 50 mg ED (either oral or injectable)
or:
Week 1-6 Anavar 50 mg ED

(all these cycles are usually combined with Clen and/or T3)

There are some more cycles (bit more unusual) that don't require PCT...

But especially while Using Test (or worse a combo with Deca or Tren or other horrifying suppressors of your "natural Hormone Feedback system")

Then it is not only necessary but essential --> To keep Gains, sexdrive and to provent Long Term damage to your Hormonal System, It also lets your Hormonal System recover (so that acne you are talking about, while most people get it while "on" and not from PCT dissappears faster etc.)

Clomid and Nolva are cheap readily available ORAL (so no "hassle") substances why risk Losing gains or worse yet damaging your Body (you only get one!) just do the extra 20 days!

Greets
Kingofmasters

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Originally Posted by kingofmasters

It's not needed if you are doing steroids that don't impact much on Hypofyse/hypothalamus Feedback...

That would mean most "prescription" steroids:

Cycles that don't need PCT (doing it is offcourse best but not essential)

Week 1-8 Primobolan Depot
or:
Week 1-6 Winstrol 50 mg ED (either oral or injectable)
or:
Week 1-6 Anavar 50 mg ED

(all these cycles are usually combined with Clen and/or T3)

There are some more cycles (bit more unusual) that don't require PCT...

But especially while Using Test (or worse a combo with Deca or Tren or other horrifying suppressors of your "natural Hormone Feedback system")

Then it is not only necessary but essential --> To keep Gains, sexdrive and to provent Long Term damage to your Hormonal System, It also lets your Hormonal System recover (so that acne you are talking about, while most people get it while "on" and not from PCT dissappears faster etc.)

Clomid and Nolva are cheap readily available ORAL (so no "hassle") substances why risk Losing gains or worse yet damaging your Body (you only get one!) just do the extra 20 days!

Greets
Kingofmasters

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Hogwash on your oral oppinion!!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kingofmasters

It's not needed if you are doing steroids that don't impact much on Hypofyse/hypothalamus Feedback...

That would mean most "prescription" steroids:

Cycles that don't need PCT (doing it is offcourse best but not essential)

Week 1-8 Primobolan Depot
or:
Week 1-6 Winstrol 50 mg ED (either oral or injectable)
or:
Week 1-6 Anavar 50 mg ED

(all these cycles are usually combined with Clen and/or T3)

There are some more cycles (bit more unusual) that don't require PCT...

But especially while Using Test (or worse a combo with Deca or Tren or other horrifying suppressors of your "natural Hormone Feedback system")

Then it is not only necessary but essential --> To keep Gains, sexdrive and to provent Long Term damage to your Hormonal System, It also lets your Hormonal System recover (so that acne you are talking about, while most people get it while "on" and not from PCT dissappears faster etc.)

Clomid and Nolva are cheap readily available ORAL (so no "hassle") substances why risk Losing gains or worse yet damaging your Body (you only get one!) just do the extra 20 days!

Greets
Kingofmasters

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Unfortunatley I have to strongly disagree. PCT is needed no matter what. I don't care if it is hard on hpta or not. There is no argument here that it is needed...

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Originally Posted by Da Bull

Hogwash on your oral oppinion!!!!!

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Its not about orals/injectables it's about the influence of the steroids on your hormonal system --> Primo, Anavar and Winstrol are very mild...

Primo and Anavar are commonly described by doctors and PCT isn't something I heard of (I am a Med-student) before I joined steroid boards.

You can ask Einstein1905 if you disagree... But the purpose of PCT is recovering homeostasis of Hormonelevels!

greets
Kingofmasters

dont forget EQ

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Originally Posted by Russ616

Unfortunatley I have to strongly disagree. PCT is needed no matter what. I don't care if it is hard on hpta or not. There is no argument here that it is needed...

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And you base that on what?

There is no argument --> Sure there is, you have to argument why there is no argument ;)

Greets
Kingofmasters

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Originally Posted by whiteyk

dont forget EQ

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very true --> also very suppresive !

ANY exogenous hormone will supress natural production in doses and durations that we utilize so PCT is needed for Var/Primo/Winny cycles.

PCT is just not about keeping gains.
It reduces the amount of time the immune system is hindered while the body is adapting to it's natural source of testosterone. It reduces the amount of time the metabolism is supressed from low testosterone. It prevents longer term psycological issues by helping the body recuperate it's proper balance in hormonal levels. Etc

Hormonal imbalance is a condition that needs to be rectified as soon as possible. Acne is a side effect for some, and it's the bad that comes with the good

even if it's true that some people don't need to take clomid during PCT... i would still want to take some as supplements to my existing production of test... clomid = bigger balls, bigger loads, and bigger sex drive... so why not?

I got acne like a mofo when I got on my pct with clomid, I ran test and eq for 14 wks with little sides at all, but when I came off the cycle and started the standard clomid pct, I broke out really bad. It made me feel like a teenager again with the moodswings and acne. But was it worth keeping my gains, I would have to say yes.

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Originally Posted by ImmmtheIceman

ive never heard of acne from clomid. IM taking clomid now and havent seen anything. try proacitve that works well. You should definitely take it though

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Originally Posted by Pheedno

ANY exogenous hormone will supress natural production in doses and durations that we utilize so PCT is needed for Var/Primo/Winny cycles.

PCT is just not about keeping gains.
It reduces the amount of time the immune system is hindered while the body is adapting to it's natural source of testosterone. It reduces the amount of time the metabolism is supressed from low testosterone. It prevents longer term psycological issues by helping the body recuperate it's proper balance in hormonal levels. Etc

Hormonal imbalance is a condition that needs to be rectified as soon as possible. Acne is a side effect for some, and it's the bad that comes with the good

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Thank you Pheedno

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Originally Posted by barbarian

hey noob

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For a vet on another board, one would think you would post more than just pictures. Kind of annoying if you ask me...

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Originally Posted by usualsuspect

For a vet on another board, one would think you would post more than just pictures. Kind of annoying if you ask me...

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i dont recal asking for you opinion now did i....maybe if everyone would laff everyonce in a while..this would be a happyier board..HEY EVERYONE PULL THE CORNCOBS OUTA YOUR A$$ES PLZ!!! :rolleyes:

personally, i suffer from very bad acne after a cycle. this lasts about 3 months to go away. if i do one good cycle a year and retain 15lbs, i think the 9/12 months of the year that i dont have acne is definitely worth it. personally, i did my last cycle during the winter, which is fine because my acne finished clearing up last month. now i just diet and get ready for the summer. pct helps bring your hormones back to normal and lets you keep much more muscle than without using pct. i am a perfect example. i have two cycles under my belt. one with pct, one without. a couple years ago i did a dbol/sust cycle and kept like 5-7lbs in the long run. the next cycle of just test enth. which i finished in december help me put on 26lbs total and i kept 18lbs on after pct. i would much rather keep 18lbs than 6lbs. i suffered from bad acne, but was well worth it. if you dont want acne to be noticeable, do it in the winter and keep a nice tan .

As always Pheedno is right on. King of Masters you are correct that those substances are not as inhibitory as some and in the case of anavar I have always had some HPTA function how ever the inhibition has always been extreme to the point of needing PCT. We tested almost all these drugs in the hope of finding a bridge or fandango cycle that would allow for continued HPTA function and it was unfortunately unsuccessful every time. I know Dan Duchaine was hot and heavy after this but it simply never worked like most AAS theories thrown out there. I do believe PCT is easier with these drugs but should still be used.

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Originally Posted by Pheedno

ANY exogenous hormone will supress natural production in doses and durations that we utilize so PCT is needed for Var/Primo/Winny cycles.

PCT is just not about keeping gains.
It reduces the amount of time the immune system is hindered while the body is adapting to it's natural source of testosterone. It reduces the amount of time the metabolism is supressed from low testosterone. It prevents longer term psycological issues by helping the body recuperate it's proper balance in hormonal levels. Etc

Hormonal imbalance is a condition that needs to be rectified as soon as possible. Acne is a side effect for some, and it's the bad that comes with the good

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This is probably n00b of me........Clomid is obv. needed in all cases to help restore LH secretion... (I think?)

But as far as Nolvadex goes...do most of you use on an as prescribed basis or as needed basis?

Or in other words...do you follow the recommended nolva dosage / usage for a given amount of anabolic regardless whether gyno appears...or do you use it to simply "treat" signs of gyno and continue use until the gyno disappears?

As far as AI's go...isn't it true that the overusage of stuff like Arimidex will make you more susceptible to future gyno?

Just confused new guy. :unsure:

Is acne from PCT usually on back and body or face? I have been so happy because im 9 weeks into deca and test prop and my complexion is actually better. But now I realize i have PCT acne to worry about. :(

Good responses and that was exactly the type of reaction i was looking for. As i stated in my post i think PCT is a must and have never done a cycle without a proper PCT. I agree with everything that has been said- however for some people that i know the risk of bad acne for 2-3 months is not one worth taking.