Anything wrong with this cycle?

**Quake** · 06-10-2004, 11:34 AM

I have started a cycle which I devised myself, with no referencing or expert advice (yeah i know!). I have told a few people my plans and have had varied criticism, what do you think?

D-bol 5 tabs a day (25 mg)
200 mg of Deca a week
250 - 500 mg of Sustenon a week
Oxy 1 tab a day (50 mg) for peak two weeks
200 mg of Cypionate a week for peak two weeks
Nolvadex 20 mg a day

This is done in a pyramid stack. I plan to take HCG ,Clenbuterol and continue Nolvadex in my PCT. Is there anything wrong with this stack?

**w_rballs** · 06-10-2004, 12:26 PM

how long are u gonna be running this for? u told us the doses but we need to know the weeks u will be running each substance

**Quake** · 06-10-2004, 12:39 PM

The first two weeks are 200 mg of Deca
250 mg of Sustenon
in the second week 25mg of D-bol Ea Day

The next 4 weeks are 200 mg of Deca
500 mg of Sustenon
25 mg of D-bol ED
The middle two weeks of this four weeks will include 50mg of Oxy ED
200 mg of Cypionate EW

The last two weeks are the same as the first two with a taper of the D-bol in the final week. So as you see, a total of eight weeks in all.

**BUYLONGTERM** · 06-10-2004, 12:40 PM

Well, to begin with, do NOT taper your doses. Keep them consistent. DBOL should be run DAY 1.

**magicstick2003** · 06-10-2004, 12:41 PM

no need to taper the doses... its unecessary.
why not run 30mg dbol ED for the first 4 weeks then run your deca at about 400 for weeks 1-10 and you sust weeks 1-11 @ 500 mg you may have to get more gear but you mgiht as well do it right.... keep in mind also the sust needs to be shot EOD minimum (ideally ED)

**joevette** · 06-10-2004, 01:45 PM

Do this:
1-4 30mg dbol (split and taken every 3-4hrs)
1-12 500mg Test cyp (shot twice a week)
1-11 200-400mg Deca (shot twice a week)
No drol with the dbol (2 aa's don't mix, you'll hurt your liver)
13-14 50mg Test prop. (shot every day) (this is optional, but it lets you start pct 3 days after the last shot instead of 2 weeks)
1-17 .25mg l-dex ed
1-17 20mg nolva ed
1-17 200mg vitamin b6 (for progestine gyno)

enjoy

**wolar32** · 06-10-2004, 01:49 PM

Do what joevette has advised. Never pyramid. I would rather front load that pyramid.

**TRicKtOutT** · 06-10-2004, 02:00 PM

I agree with everyone dont taper with this stuff... Im actually strting my next cycle in 2 months which will be this.....
Week 1-10 : 500mg/wk enan
Week 1-8: 400mg/wk Deca Durabolin
Week 1-4: 30mg/day Dbol
Week 7-12: 50mg/day winny
Week 8-15: Clen and Keto
Week 1-16: 20mg/day Nolva
Week 13-16: Clomid
Week 1-16: 1000mg/day Milk Thistle
Week 1-16: 200mg/day Vitamin B6

Run your dbol from day 1 because that kicks in from the beginning, test and deca kick in 3-4 weeks later. If your not going to shoot ur sust every 2 to 3(MAX) days then its a waste because the prop will run out and imo I think enanthate will be better so you can control your blood pressure. Use some Milk Thistle to help out your liver and take some Vit B6 to help balance your hormones a lil

**Quake** · 06-10-2004, 02:07 PM

Jees, I need to do some contemporary reading! When I left a few years ago everyone was recommending tapering in and out of a cycle. Everyone that I talked to or read anyway. I've already tapered in, maybe I'll get some more for a constant through the rest of the cycle. I already read an item on here that talked a great deal about sustenon and whilst some said one a day, another guy, who seemed to know what he was talking about, said this is not necessary due to four different releases in sustenon that other tests do not have. Does anyone know more about this?

**TRicKtOutT** · 06-10-2004, 02:15 PM

never taper with sust because the do release at different times so hes right
generally you shouldnt taper with anything except for stuff like clen because of the shakes and stuff if your going to play around with the dosage you would only do that in the beginning where you can frontload but its not necessary because your taking dbol so yes dont taper.

**joevette** · 06-10-2004, 04:57 PM

If you want to know more about sust look in the educational forum, there is a whole thread explaining its action. Stick with a single estered test, it will be much easier and will yield the same gains.

**TRicKtOutT** · 06-10-2004, 07:48 PM

yup do as joevette says lol... enanthate and deca is a SOLID Cycle you can ask anyone, you dont wanna mess around with too many esters you want to keep a constant blood pressure and know how much is running in your body. If you use sust blood pressure will go up and down all the time because you dont kno which ester just kicked in or how much considering by ur next shot ull have more esters than others so it'll be all mixed up.

**Quake** · 06-11-2004, 01:24 AM

OK, I've looked elsewhere and on AR profiles, and they all recommend Sustenon over Enanthate , and all for several reasons. So what's this feedback I'm getting? They also confirm that Sustenon need not be taken ED or EOD. AR profile recommends a dosage of between 250 - 500mg of Sust a week, which is only two shots a week, which is what I have planned. Sorry guys but if you're going to give advice make sure you know what you are talking about!

***50%Natural*** · 06-11-2004, 02:46 AM

Originally Posted by Bouncer272001

OK, I've looked elsewhere and on AR profiles, and they all recommend Sustenon over Enanthate, and all for several reasons. So what's this feedback I'm getting? They also confirm that Sustenon need not be taken ED or EOD. AR profile recommends a dosage of between 250 - 500mg of Sust a week, which is only two shots a week, which is what I have planned. Sorry guys but if you're going to give advice make sure you know what you are talking about!

lol, you are the one asking

**TRicKtOutT** · 06-11-2004, 06:05 AM

haha we know what were talking about and if you think im wrong then its up to you buddy im telling you right now its quite simple...... SUST has 4 different esters that targets at different times ENAN has only 1 ester that targets at 1 time if you stacking with sust the bloodpressure goes up and down and its hard to keep constant and kno ur pressure while enanthat gives you 1 bloodpressure that may rise if you dose more, but its constant.... SUST has prop as 1 of its esters and prop runs out in 2 days so if you dont shoot eod your wasting the prop thats in it so ur not taking in efficiently 250mg/wk buddy. The facts are right. Im not saying sust is bad, sust is great but for a more bulking/mass cycle do enanthate and Deca .

**TRicKtOutT** · 06-11-2004, 06:08 AM

im not saying take 250mg eod because thats a lot, but lets say your taking 500mg/wk total, then split it up into 4 shots a week so atleast you cn have some use of the prop

And please gimme a link to where is says sust/deca is a better combo than enan/deca

**Quake** · 06-11-2004, 03:06 PM

"Sustanon , milligram for milligram, has a better effect than Testosterone enanthate , cypionate , and propionate alone. Second, the effect of the four testosterones is time-released so that Sustanon goes rapidly into the system and remains effective in the body for several weeks. Due to the propionate also included in the steroid , Sustanon is effective after one day and, based on the mixed in decanoates, remains active for 3-4 weeks." This is a quote from the AR profile on Sustanon. What I have not included here is a use of the key words "synergetic effect" also in the profile. This means that although the way the different tests work on their own is recorded in their separate profiles and advice given on regularity of dosage etc, the way the tests work when mixed together as in Sustanon, is a completely different ball game. This is something to take note of and remember, things just don't do the same mixed as they do alone. C'mon guys, this is simple chemistry that even I can relate to, and I know nothing!

**MotoLifter** · 06-11-2004, 03:55 PM

and I know nothing![/QUOTE]

U said it dude. No one else.

**joevette** · 06-11-2004, 04:39 PM

Look, 500mg of prop is more actual testosterone than 500mg of sust. This is because the propinate ester takes up less space than a huge decoanate ester or even an enanthate ester. If you've like do a search for the actual amount of test for each ester, you will find that prop has something like 84mg of test per 100mg of prop, while decoanate only has something like 50 or 60mg per 100 mg of solution. More test=more power, it's as simple as that. There is your simple chemistry!!!

BTW, the main site is pretty outdated even though it was actually updated not too long ago!!

**TRicKtOutT** · 06-11-2004, 06:28 PM

do as you wish man... you still dont know as much... im still waiting for you to show me a link with proof that a stack of sust/deca is much better than enan/deca

When you first shoot yourself you will feel the prop on day 1 and 2 but after that wait a good 4 weeks till you actually feel the rest of it kick in... Since the esters are slower in your body it will take a month till you see it all in effect.... enanthate will be a week sooner. Not saying thats what makes enanthate better at all

**Quake** · 06-13-2004, 04:42 AM

I can't give you a link to a site that suggests one stack is better than the other, because I don't have one, but that is not what I said anyway. The info I have read suggests Enan to have more side effects than sust and also there is a point which is made about the length of time in the blood, but I can't f**kin remember what I read now. I have been advised by a reliable source that it is unlikely they would choose one over the other as both are good. This source I also asked about tapering, and they advised me that tapering is a good thing especially for the novice, this is because your body's natural testosterone production isn't bashed around so much as just jumping in to a full dose. By tapering in the body slowly gets used to the extra test in your blood and so compensates at it's own pace, this makes it easier for the body on the tapering out of a cycle to pick up in it's natural production of test again back to full natural levels. Of course aiding the process with HCG etc is still recommended, and I shall be doing this. Tapering helps prevent harming your natural testosterone production and so is recommended.

This source has written books on steroids , and currently has at least two books in publication, one of which I hope to purchase soon. The source trains professional athletes and body builders and has been involved in athletic circles for years. I know my source's history, I don't know yours, no offence, but I know who I'm going to follow.

BTW when I say "source" I don't mean a supplier, so don't start sending me e-mails for gear! THNX!

**CHEMICAL WARFARE** · 06-13-2004, 05:54 AM

This any help -

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Testosterone Ester Report

One of the most misunderstood subjects in the world of steroids is the ester--the mechanism by which injectable esterified steroids like testosterone cypionate , testosterone enanthate , and Sustanon work. If you take a quick look around the Internet you will probably find countless articles that consider one form of a steroid far more effective than another. Arguments over the superiority of cypionate to enanthate , or Sustanon to all other testosterones are of course very common. Such arguments are in all practicality, baseless. In this report we'll take an authoritative look at the ester and what specifically it does to a steroid.

WHAT AN ESTER IS, AND HOW IT WORKS

I'm sure that if you have taken an interest in anabolic steroids you have noticed the similarities on the labeling of many drugs. Let's look at testosterone for example. One can find compounds like testosterone cypionate, enanthate, propionate , heptylate; caproate, phenylpropionate, isocaproate, decanoate, acetate, the list goes on and on. In all such cases the parent hormone is testosterone, which had been modified by adding an ester (enanthate, propionate etc.) to its structure. The following question arises: What is the difference between the various esterified versions of testosterone in regards to their use in bodybuilding?

An ester is a chain composed primarily of carbon and hydrogen atoms. This chain is typically attached to the parent steroid hormone at the 17th carbon position (beta orientation), although some compounds do carry esters at position 3 (for the purposes of this article it is not crucial to understand the exact position of the ester). Esterification of an injectable anabolic/androgenic steroid basically accomplishes one thing, it slows the release of the parent steroid from the site of injection. This happens because the ester will notably lower the water solubility of the steroid, and increase its lipid (fat) solubility. This will cause the drug to form a deposit in the muscle tissue, from which it will slowly enter into circulation as it is picked up in small quantities by the blood. Generally, the longer the ester chain, the lower the water solubility of the compound, and the longer it will take to for the full dosage to reach general circulation.

Slowing the release of the parent steroid is a great benefit in steroid medicine, as free testosterone (or other steroid hormones) previously would remain active in the body for a very short period of time (typically hours). This would necessitate an unpleasant daily injection schedule if one wished to maintain a continuous elevation of testosterone (the goal of testosterone replacement therapy). By adding an ester, the patient can visit the doctor as infrequently as once per month for his injection, instead of having to constantly re-administer the drug to achieve a therapeutic effect. Clearly without the use of an ester, therapy with an injectable anabolic/androgen would be much more difficult.

Esterification temporarily deactivates the steroid molecule. With a chain blocking the 17th beta position, binding to the androgen receptor is not possible (it can exert no activity in the body). In order for the compound to become active the ester must therefore first be removed. This automatically occurs once the compound has filtered into blood circulation, where esterase enzymes quickly cleave off (hydrolyze) the ester chain. This will restore the necessary hydroxyl (OH) group at the 17th beta position, enabling the drug to attach to the appropriate receptor. Now and only now will the steroid be able to have an effect on skeletal muscle tissue. You can start to see why considering testosterone cypionate much more potent than enanthate makes little sense, as your muscles are seeing only free testosterone no matter what ester was used to deploy it.

ACTIONS OF DIFFERENT ESTERS

There are many different esters that are used with anabolic/androgenic steroids, but again, they all do basically the same thing. Esters vary only in their ability to reduce a steroid's water solubility. An ester like propionate for example will slow the release of a steroid for a few days, while the duration will be weeks with a decanoate ester. Esters have no effect on the tendency for the parent steroid to convert to estrogen or DHT (dihydrotestosterone: a more potent metabolite) nor will it effect the overall muscle-building potency of the compound. Any differences in results and side effects that may be noted by bodybuilders who have used various esterified versions of the same base steroid are just issues of timing. Testosterone enanthate causes estrogen related problems more readily than Sustanon, simply because with enanthate testosterone levels will peak and trough much sooner (1-2 week release duration as opposed to 3 or 4). Likewise testosterone suspension is the worst in regards to gyno and water bloat because blood hormone levels peak so quickly with this drug. Instead of waiting weeks for testosterone levels to rise to their highest point, here we are at most looking at a couple of days. Given an equal blood level of testosterone, there would be no difference in the rate of aromatization or DHT conversion between different esters. There is simply no mechanism for this to be possible.

There is however one way that we can say an ester does technically effect potency; it is calculated in the steroid weight. The heavier the ester chain, the greater is its percentage of the total weight. In the case of testosterone enanthate for example, 250mg of esterified steroid (testosterone enanthate) is equal to only 180mg of free testosterone. 70mgs out of each 250mg injection is the weight of the ester. If we wanted to be really picky, we could consider enanthate slightly MORE potent than cypionate (I know this goes against popular thinking) as its ester chain contains one less carbon atom (therefore taking up a slightly smaller percentage of total weight). Propionate would of course come out on top of the three, releasing a measurable (but not significant) amount more testosterone per injection than cypionate or enanthate.

IN CONCLUSION

While the advent of esters certainly constitutes an invaluable advance in the field of anabolic steroid medicine, clearly you can see that there is no magic involved here. Esters work in a well-understood and predictable manner, and do not alter the activity of the parent steroid in any way other than to delay its release. Although the lure surrounding various steroid products like testosterone cypionate, Sustanon, Omnadren etc. certainly makes for interesting conversation, realistically it just amounts to misinformation that the athlete would be better off ignoring. Testosterone is testosterone and anyone who is going to tell you one ester form of this (or any) hormone is much better than another one should do a little more research, and a lot less talking.

ESTER PROFILES

Sustanon: The "king" of testosterone blends.
The four different testosterone esters in this product certainly look appealing to the consumer, there is no denying that. But for the athlete I think it is all just a matter of marketing (Hell, why buy one ester when you can get four?). In clinical situations I can see some strong uses for it. If you were undergoing testosterone replacement therapy for example, you would probably find Sustanon a much more comfortable option than testosterone enanthate. You would need to visit the doctor less frequently for an injection, and blood levels should be more steadily maintained between treatments. But for the bodybuilder who is injecting 4 ampules of Sustanon per week, there is no advantage over other testosterone products. In fact, the high price tag for Sustanon usually makes it a very poor buy in the face of cheaper testosterone enanthate/cypionate. Bodybuilders should probably stop looking at the four ester issue, and stick with totals (Sustanon is just a 250mg testosterone ampule). Were enanthate to be available for say $10 per amp of 250mg, and Sustanon priced nearly double that, buying the Sustanon would be like throwing money away. If you could get nearly double the milligram amount for the same price with enanthate, this is the better product to go with hands down. Leave the high priced stuff for the guys who don't know any better.

Acetate: Chemical Structure C2H4O2.

Also referred to as Acetic Acid; Ethylic acid; Vinegar acid; vinegar; Methanecarboxylic acid. Acetate esters delay the release of a steroid for only a couple of days. Contrary to what you may have read, acetate esters do not increase the tendency for fat removal. Again, there is no known mechanism for it to do so. This ester is used on oral primobolan tablets (metenolone acetate), Finaplix (trenbolone acetate) implant pellets, and occasionally testosterone.

Propionate: Chemical Structure C3H6O2.

Also referred to as Carboxyethane; hydroacrylic acid; Methylacetic acid; Ethylformic acid; Ethanecarboxylic acid; metacetonic acid; pseudoacetic acid; Propionic Acid. Propionate esters will slow the release of a steroid for several days. To keep blood levels from fluctuating greatly, propionate compounds are usually injected two to three times weekly. Testosterone propionate and methandriol dipropionate (two separate propionate esters attached to the parent steroid methandriol) are popular items.

Phenylpropionate: Chemical Structure C9H10O2.

Also referred to as Propionic Acid Phenyl Ester. Phenylpropionate will extend the release of active steroid a few days longer than propionate. To keep blood levels even, injections are given at least twice weekly. Durabolin is the drug most commonly seen with a phenylpropionate ester (nandrolone phenylpropionate), although it is also used with testosterone in Sustanon and Omnadren.

Isocarpoate: Chemical Structure C6H12O2.

Also referred to as Isocaproic Acid; isohexanoate; 4-methylvaleric acid. Isocaproate begins to near enanthate in terms of release. The duration is still shorter, with a notable hormone level being sustained for approximately one week. This ester is used with testosterone in the blended products Sustanon and Omnadren.

Caproate: Chemical Structure C6H12O2.

Also referred to as Hexanoic acid; hexanoate; n-Caproic Acid; n-Hexoic acid; butylacetic acid; pentiformic acid; pentylformic acid; n-hexylic acid; 1-pentanecarboxylic acid; hexoic acid; 1-hexanoic acid; Hexylic acid; Caproic acid. This ester is identical to isocarpoate in terms of atom count and weight, but is laid out slightly different (Isocaproate has a split configuration, difficult to explain here but easy to see on paper). Release duration would be very similar to isocaproate (levels sustained for approximately one weak), perhaps coming slightly closer to enanthate due to its straight chain. Caproate is the slowest releasing ester used in Omnadren, which is why most athletes notice more water retention with this compound.

Enanthate: Chemical Structure C7H14O2.

Also referred to as heptanoic acid; enanthic acid; enanthylic acid; heptylic acid; heptoic acid; Oenanthylic acid; Oenanthic acid. Enanthate is one of the most prominent esters used in steroid manufacture (most commonly seen with testosterone but is also used in other compounds like Primobolan Depot). Enanthate will release a steady (yet fluctuating as all esters are) level of hormone for approximately 10-14 days. Although in medicine enanthate compounds are often injected on a bi-weekly or monthly basis, athletes will inject at least weekly to help maintain a uniform blood level.

Cypionate: Chemical Structure C8H14O2.

Also referred to as Cyclopentylpropionic acid, cyclopentylpropionate. Cypionate is a very popular ester here in the U.S., although it is scarcely found outside this region. Its release duration is almost identical to enanthate (10-14 days), and the two are likewise thought to be interchangeable in U.S. medicine. Althletes commonly hold the belief than cypionate is more powerful than enanthate, although realistically there is little difference between the two. The enanthate ester is in fact slightly smaller than cypionate, and it therefore releases a small (perhaps a few milligrams) amount of steroid more in comparison.

Decanoate: Chemical Structure C10H20O2.

Also referred to as decanoic acid; capric acid; caprinic acid; decylic acid, Nonanecarboxylic acid. The Decanoate ester is most commonly used with the hormone nandrolone (as in Deca -Durabolin) and is found in virtually all corners of the world. Testosterone decanoate is also the longest acting constituent in Sustanon, greatly extending its release duration. The release time with Decanoate compounds is listed to be as long as one month, although most recently we are finding that levels seem to drop significantly after two weeks. To keep blood levels more uniform, athletes (as they have always known to do) will follow a weekly injection schedule.

Undecylenate: Chemical Structure C11H20O2.

Also referred to as Undecylenic acid; Hendecenoic acid; Undecenoic acid. This ester is very similar to decanoate, containing only one carbon atom more. Its release duration is likewise very similar (approximately 2-3 weeks), perhaps extending a day or so past that seen with decanoate. Undecylenate seems to be exclusive to the veterinary preparation Equipoise (boldenone undecylenate), although there is no reason it would not work well in human-use preparations (Equipoise certainly works fine for athletes). Again, weekly injections are most common.

Undecanoate: Chemical Structure C11H22O2.

Also referred to as Undecanoic Acid; 1-Decanecarboxylic acid; Hendecanoic acid; Undecylic acid. Undecanoate is not a commonly found ester, and only appears to be used in the nandrolone preparation Dynabolan , and oral testosterone undecanoate (Andriol ). Since this ester is chemically very similar to undecylenate (it is only 2 hydrogen atoms larger), it has a similar release duration (approximately 2-3 weeks). Although this ester is used in the oral preparation Andriol, there is no reason to believe it carries any properties unique of other esters. Andriol in fact works very poorly at delivering testosterone, bolstering the idea that oral administration is not the idea use of esterified androgens.

Laurate: Chemical structure C12H24O2.

Also referred to as Dodecanoic acid, laurostearic acid, duodecyclic acid, 1-undecanecarboxylic acid, and dodecoic acid. Laurate is the longest releasing ester used in commercial steroid production, although longer acting esters do exist. Its release duration would be closer to one month than the other esters listed above, although realistically we are probably to expect a notable drop in hormone level after the third week. Laurate is exclusively found in the veterinary nandrolone preparation Laurabolin , perhaps seen as slightly advantageous over a decanoate ester due to a less frequent injection schedule. Again athletes will most commonly inject this drug weekly, no doubt in part due to its low strength (25mg/ml or 50mg/ml).

As posted on the educational forum

**Quake** · 06-13-2004, 10:40 AM

Chemical Warfare, great post mate!

This is another write up that confirms that Sustenon need not be taken EOD or ED. I haven't read a write up yet that has advised otherwise, only the answers to questions in this forum have suggested it. Could be you guys are listening to your suppliers, and their just out to make more money off your backs so are telling you that you need to jab more frequently?

**magicstick2003** · 06-13-2004, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Bouncer272001

Chemical Warfare, great post mate!

This is another write up that confirms that Sustenon need not be taken EOD or ED. I haven't read a write up yet that has advised otherwise, only the answers to questions in this forum have suggested it. Could be you guys are listening to your suppliers, and their just out to make more money off your backs so are telling you that you need to jab more frequently?

The thing is you don;t HAVE to do the sust that way but due to the fact that the prop ester is only active for 2 days you will not have max levels of the prop... this will cuase your blood levels to fluctuate which could lead to more sides.... Personally i think sust is a bad AS (though i've neevr used it) i would rather stick with something that doesn;ty have such a combo of esters... sticking with an enanth and using prop along side IMO is a much better way to go...

**TRicKtOutT** · 06-13-2004, 09:54 PM

Bouncer272001 how many other ppl have to come and tell you this... Im not trying to be rude and never did but you started by saying we dont know what were talkin about

**TRicKtOutT** · 06-13-2004, 09:57 PM

and even quoted from chemical warefares post
"buying the Sustanon would be like throwing money away. If you could get nearly double the milligram amount for the same price with enanthate , this is the better product to go with hands down. Leave the high priced stuff for the guys who don't know any better.
"

**Quake** · 06-14-2004, 03:20 AM

Yes, but that quote applies to people jabbing four ampoules or more a week. The other point that is being put forward is the fact of the propionate only lasting two days or so, but as in the AR profile, the fact that these tests are mixed produces a synergetic effect. What is this effect? Does the propionate act differently as it is mixed with other tests, i.e. does it last longer in the blood due to it's being in a mixture? Any bio-chemists out there know the answer to this? I'm a novice and can only tell you what little I've read, but my max on this cycle is two amps of sust a week so maybe it's still a good thing for me.

**flabbywussy** · 06-14-2004, 05:11 AM

Originally Posted by Bouncer272001

Yes, but that quote applies to people jabbing four ampoules or more a week. The other point that is being put forward is the fact of the propionate only lasting two days or so, but as in the AR profile, the fact that these tests are mixed produces a synergetic effect. What is this effect? Does the propionate act differently as it is mixed with other tests, i.e. does it last longer in the blood due to it's being in a mixture? Any bio-chemists out there know the answer to this? I'm a novice and can only tell you what little I've read, but my max on this cycle is two amps of sust a week so maybe it's still a good thing for me.

YES! YOU GOT IT ! THE PROP TURNS INTO "SUPER PROP" WHEN IT'S MIXED WITH OTHER ESTERS!

**Quake** · 06-14-2004, 05:29 AM

An intelligently "engineered" testosterone , Sustanon is designed to provide a fast yet extended release of testosterone. The propionate and phenylpropionate esters in this product are quickly utilized, releasing into circulation within the first four days. The remaining esters are much slower to release, staying active in the body for about two and three weeks (respectively). This is a big improvement from standard testosterones such as cypionate or enanthate , which provide a much shorter duration of activity, and a more variable blood level.

Finding quotes like this on sustenon (still looking). The profiles I've read have all said that the test in sust is in the blood in the first few days, but all have failed to state how long the individual tests last for thereafter. Don't come back with a write up from a propionate profile now, because that is only it on it's own.

Flabbywussy, not so funny, when chemicals are mixed they often have a reaction to each other (or didn't you take notice in your chem class?), this leads to the chemicals behaving differently than when they are on their own (do I really have to state things like this for people like you?), so this means that what I am trying to find out is if such a reaction occurs between the different tests and esters in sustenon. Does the prop turn into "super prop" as flabbywussy so elegantly puts it? I've phoned Organon, but they won't give any info about their products. Bio-chemists r u out there? Where's Paul Borreson when you need him? R.I.P

**flabbywussy** · 06-14-2004, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Bouncer272001

An intelligently "engineered" testosterone , Sustanon is designed to provide a fast yet extended release of testosterone. The propionate and phenylpropionate esters in this product are quickly utilized, releasing into circulation within the first four days. The remaining esters are much slower to release, staying active in the body for about two and three weeks (respectively). This is a big improvement from standard testosterones such as cypionate or enanthate , which provide a much shorter duration of activity, and a more variable blood level.

Finding quotes like this on sustenon (still looking). The profiles I've read have all said that the test in sust is in the blood in the first few days, but all have failed to state how long the individual tests last for thereafter. Don't come back with a write up from a propionate profile now, because that is only it on it's own.

Flabbywussy, not so funny, when chemicals are mixed they often have a reaction to each other (or didn't you take notice in your chem class?), this leads to the chemicals behaving differently than when they are on their own (do I really have to state things like this for people like you?), so this means that what I am trying to find out is if such a reaction occurs between the different tests and esters in sustenon. Does the prop turn into "super prop" as flabbywussy so elegantly puts it? I've phoned Organon, but they won't give any info about their products. Bio-chemists r u out there? Where's Paul Borreson when you need him? R.I.P

i am a bio chemist,and i say test is test.

hey there chemistry major, i have some news for ya! if you take any testosterone and eat good you will grow! happy now? why would you even ask any questions if your mind is set on the answer? just for your info i took deca ,and enanthate for my first cycle,and i gained 34 lbs. i seriously doubt your going to gain more than that for your first cycle by using sustanon instead.i don't care about blood levels,bp,constipation ,acne,whatever, point is i would rather spend less money,and get close to the same(or the same) results. if sustanon is stronger, i would rather save it for future cycles anyways.

**TRicKtOutT** · 06-14-2004, 11:53 AM

exactly... I say you dont need something crazy on your first cycle... you will gain a lot off enanthate alone even, because ur recpetors r sensitive to it

**Quake** · 06-14-2004, 12:02 PM

flabbywussy, I'm not disputing how good the other tests are. Most of the profiles I have read have stated the same thing too. And a good source of information (not a supplier) who has their own company in the UK who I talked to over the phone about the same thing, said the same, that it would be a hard decision between Sust and Enan as they are both good at what they do.

I'll just leave the question hanging....

**Quake** · 06-15-2004, 01:07 PM

I have done extensive searching of profiles, and have only found two places that have given me the type of answer I have been looking for, and one place that gave me a sarcastic answer (that'd be here from a little miss "know-it-all", some of us are still learning y'know!). The two answers both agreed that the only thing gained from the mixture of tests in sust is the differences in the lifespans of the tests in the blood, that the mix doesn't prolong the life of all of the tests as "I" thought may have been possible. This is just for those who have been following this thread and are interested in the outcome.

I have now decided to replace Sust with Enan for my next cycle and compare the results. I bow out gracefully to those with superior knowledge and more experience than I. I hope you're not all sarcastic c**ts!