First cycle any changes??

**Billy Boy** · 09-20-2001, 05:20 AM

Got everything planned hopefully and here is my first cycle i,m hoping to start it Sept 30th if the final items are recieved

I think it is very similiar to BA cycle and he has got good results so I think it is time to grow!!

Pre Cycle Week run for 10 days
Milk Thistle 800mg

Week 1
D-Bol 20mg ED
(Tapering in just to be kind to the liver and I feel happier doing this I know I don,t need to )
Sust 250 500mg
Deca 400mg
Sust and Deca to be split into 2 jabs a week 200mg and 250mg on Sun and another on Wed

Week 2-5
D-Bol 30mg ED
Sust250 500mg
Deca 400mg

Week 6-8
Sust250 500mg
Deca 400mg
End milk Thistle 10days after last D-Bol

Week 10
Clen 1 maxing upto 6

Week 11
Loading dose of Creatine

Week 10.5-13.5
Clomid 300mg day 1/100mg days 2-11/50mg days 12-21and Zinc supplement

Week 14-15
Run Clen again if needed.

Supplements
Vitamin C
Glutamine 10g daily
Cod Liver oil and Multivitamin
Zinc to be run in with Clomid

Going to start the cycle on 4000 cals with low fat and will adjust the cals accordingly as the cycle progresses.Going to keep protein at 2g per lb of bodyweight.

Aiming to drink at least 8 litres of water a day

Have I missed anything ?

Once again many thanks to Big Al and Mike for their valuable input and advice cheers guys

Billy

**Big Al** · 09-20-2001, 05:55 AM

good post bro, shit and you say mine are long!

Anyway 800-1000mg on the Milk Thistle, good to start pre-cycle, but only really need to run 2 weeks after D-Bol IMO, but its no biggie.

good idea to run zinc ED, also try some Vit E cream if your prone to stretch marks.

IMO save the creatine to post cycle when you need it, I'm loading up post cycle.

Think about some Vit C, your immune system will be suspitble.

Look at the posts on Clomid there are some differing idea now Cycleon and TIG think more like 300mg 1st 100mg for 10 days and 50mg for 10 days, this saturates the receptors on the first day to kick stat nat test levels.

Grow!

BA

**Billy Boy** · 09-20-2001, 06:07 AM

Cheers Big Al and I take Vit C all the time anyway how the hell could I forget to mention that Doh!!

As for stretch marks never grown enough to get any LOL don,t think I will need any but I will get some just in case

Thanks bro
Billy

**big_guy** · 09-20-2001, 06:36 AM

billy boy. im not the expert. but from what others have said, don't start your clomid one week after last injection. 2 weeks or untill you feel the need.

nice looking cycle, u should make some GOOD gains.

peace. and be careful.

**Billy Boy** · 09-20-2001, 08:10 AM

Yeah good point about the clomid but it seems to be such a "grey " area OJ does his around 12 days some do a week some 2 as for when I feel I need it I don,t have the experience to be able to predict when I should take it Maybe I will go 10 days bang in the middle!!

Cheers Bro

Billy

Mike · 09-20-2001, 08:28 AM

damn - you got some good answers - took everything I was gonna say away! But in case anything was missed here's what I think -

Milk Thistle - 800mg/day starting ten days before cycle and endiong ten days after your dbol ends - clomid - start 2.5wks after last shot and you can either do it that way or 300 day one 100mg/day days 2-11 and 50 days 12-21 - but start it later

Dont use the nolv unless you need to - creatine save for post cycle because you'll want to do a good 7 day loading cycle around 3wks after your last injection

Lastly....think bout running your deca /sus for 10wks...wouldnt hurt

(good cycle bro)

**Billy Boy** · 09-20-2001, 08:36 AM

Thanks Big Al. Big Guy and Mike great answers

I,ve revised the original post so I can print it off

Cheers

Billy

**Pete235** · 09-20-2001, 08:46 AM

Billy...I'll be running that stack exactly in late October, early November. The only difference is I won't be tapering my d-bol...running 35mg/day from day 1. I'll be very interested in hearing how you make out. Hope you don't mind the occasional PM and/or e-mail from this Canadian hosehead.
Pete

**Billy Boy** · 09-20-2001, 08:50 AM

No problem bro - anytime

Billy

The Iron Game · 09-20-2001, 10:08 AM

I would stop the deca a week minimum before ending the sust but would prefer 2.

Mike · 09-20-2001, 10:26 AM

why is that IG?

**big_guy** · 09-20-2001, 06:06 PM

i would also like to here your reason for this...

The Iron Game · 09-20-2001, 07:00 PM

Ill try and dig up a few studies from somewhere but in short nandrolone decanoate and trenbolone acetate are the two most unpredictable steroids . The 2 that will shit you down hardest, nandrolone especially for its inconsitency. These 2 are the main culprits of people crashing big time after a cycle. So try and finish the deca before the test, this way you will know its out of your system long before you begin clomid therapy. Personally deca is not worth the vial it is bottled in

**Iwan2bsolid2** · 09-20-2001, 10:10 PM

Damn Billy Boy looks great, you really got you shit together.
- Great info from da boys!!
your ready to roll my friend good luck and keep us posted!!
may the force
and your source
lead you on your coarse
to be as big as a horse
and never.... I say never-
show any remorse!
-peace_IW

**Billy Boy** · 09-21-2001, 02:41 AM

Hey IG found any studies up yet on that subject of stopping the Deca first? Theory wise I can understand where you are coming from and why it would be a good reason just wondering if anyone else does it like this and notice anything different?

Also your personal reasons for disliking Deca just being nosey!!

Any input would be great

Cheers guys
Billy

Mike · 09-21-2001, 08:42 AM

As for personal reasons Billy - IG is just a grumpy old man - he feels that way about sustanon as well, in fact from what I can tell the only thing he REALLY likes is Nathan

**Slapshot1** · 09-21-2001, 11:49 AM

LOL@Mike and the Grumpy Ol' Biker hehe.

Another, beer drinking hockey playing Canuck here.

I'm starting the same cycle Sunday except 10weeks, I've only started Milk thistle today though (no big deal). I would like to be consistant w the d-bol but I have paper and Napsiom. Lush felt the paper was a little underdosed so we'll see if I have to up my dosage from 35-40mgs in the 2nd week.

The Iron Game · 09-21-2001, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by Billy Boy

Also your personal reasons for disliking Deca just being nosey!!

Any input would be great

Cheers guys
Billy

Gimme a bit on the first q

personal reasons = gyno that is unstoppable until the deca is out of your system

winny blah blah blah

**bigtraps** · 09-21-2001, 01:20 PM

IG, what do you mean by crashing at the end of the cycle?
Is this something that happens inside the body?

The Iron Game · 09-21-2001, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by bigtraps
IG, what do you mean by crashing at the end of the cycle?
Is this something that happens inside the body?

Crashing, a term used when you gain a lot of weight on a cycle and a few weeks later you lose much of the weight (you crash). It happens when natural testosterone production has not been restored and there is no more steroid in your system. Cortisol will now exert its effects and eat away muscle tissue.

**bigtraps** · 09-21-2001, 03:33 PM

I really have not understood or i am not sure how to keep the from happening.. The eating away of muscle by cortisol. I do understand you explanation, i just don't know how to prevent.
Thanks

**Iwan2bsolid2** · 09-21-2001, 04:08 PM

you need to bring your natural test levels back up as soon as possible> with the use of Clomid. Do a search on clomid and check out Cycleon's post on Clomid. Hope it helps

**Lush** · 09-21-2001, 04:18 PM

bigtraps,

I'd let IG answer your question- since he knows way more about it than I do- but I'm bored at work on this fine Fri. afternoon.

Cortisol is a catabolic steroid . It competes for the same receptors as testosterone .
When on the juice, the adrenal gland (I think thats where cortisol is made...) keeps pumping it out but there are no free receptors.

so when juice leaves the body, and your normal test production is not yet back up to normal homeostasis levels, the cortisol has a field day happily breaking down protein.

You can stop this by taking clen , and to lesser degree: ephedrine.
Start the clen along with clomid therapy.

**Billy Boy** · 09-22-2001, 01:55 AM

Mike like your reasons for IG dislike of deca - LOL

IG let me get this right what you reckon I should think about doing is dropping the deca on wk 6 carry on the sust until wk 8 2.5wks after last inj of sust run clomid & clen and I will keep more of my gains?

Billy