HCG Question??

**MONKEYNUTTZ** · 02-17-2002, 05:35 PM

After a cycle of sus 500mgs-eq 600mgs and winny for a total of 14 weeks would HCG be a good idea post cycle before i start clomid ? if so how much and for how long???
thanks

**Mr. Fina** · 02-17-2002, 05:51 PM

How many cycles have done before? If it is your first or second I don't think you'll need hcg . Clomid will be fine.

**Mr. Africa** · 02-17-2002, 05:53 PM

2 weeks ; 1500x3 along with 50 mg clomid,then up clomid to 100mg starting 3 week for 2 more weeks ,then one more with 50 mg clomid and a final with 25 mg clomid.

**MONKEYNUTTZ** · 02-17-2002, 05:58 PM

Ok but how long should i wait after my last shot of sus/eq ???
this is my 5th cycle in 3 years

**goldstone_77** · 02-18-2002, 11:56 AM

damn, 14wks. I would suggest 500iu 2/week for weeks 6-7 and than on weeks 13 and 14. Wait 2 weeks after last injection than start clomid 300mg first day then 100mg ED for the rest of the week. 50mg ED for weeks after that...

**goldstone_77** · 02-18-2002, 11:58 AM

run an anti-estrogen for 16 weeks!

**ulter** · 02-18-2002, 02:10 PM

Use 1000iu/day for the last ten days of your cycle, do the first shot the same day you do the last shot for your cycle. Then start clomid 14 days after your last shot of HCG .

**Mr. Africa** · 02-18-2002, 05:25 PM

pro . ,if you asked for medical advice,i gave it to you
btw if you take 1000 i.u daily you will down regulate your LH recpetors and will never recover
start hcg weeks 14,15 with clomid 50 (for gyno and as support)
then weeks 16.17,18,19 use clomis as follows : 100,100,50,25

**ulter** · 02-18-2002, 07:56 PM

"btw if you take 1000 i.u daily you will down regulate your LH recpetors and will never recover "

Do you make this up as you go? 1000iu/day is exactly the dose used by endocronologists when they are working on athletes that have been on AS for extended periods. Ask one. 1000iu/day is the top end of the dose you should use but it is still "what you should use"

"by Bill Roberts - HCG is provided as a glycoprotein powder to be diluted with water, and acts in the body like LH, stimulating the testes to produce testosterone even when natural LH is not present or is deficient. It therefore is useful for maintaining testosterone production and/or testicle size during a steroid cycle. Use of this drug in the taper is rather counterproductive, since the resulting increased testosterone production is itself inhibitory to the hypothalamus and pituitary, delaying recovery. Thus, if this drug is used, it is preferably used during the cycle itself. A daily amount of 500 IU is generally sufficient, and in my opinion usage should not exceed 1000 IU per day.

Daily administration is superior to less frequent administration.

**XBiker** · 02-18-2002, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by ulter
"btw if you take 1000 i.u daily you will down regulate your LH recpetors and will never recover "

Do you make this up as you go? 1000iu/day is exactly the dose used by endocronologists when they are working on athletes that have been on AS for extended periods. Ask one. 1000iu/day is the top end of the dose you should use but it is still "what you should use"

"by Bill Roberts - HCG is provided as a glycoprotein powder to be diluted with water, and acts in the body like LH, stimulating the testes to produce testosterone even when natural LH is not present or is deficient. It therefore is useful for maintaining testosterone production and/or testicle size during a steroid cycle. Use of this drug in the taper is rather counterproductive, since the resulting increased testosterone production is itself inhibitory to the hypothalamus and pituitary, delaying recovery. Thus, if this drug is used, it is preferably used during the cycle itself. A daily amount of 500 IU is generally sufficient, and in my opinion usage should not exceed 1000 IU per day.

Daily administration is superior to less frequent administration.

Dude, you ask 10 people about HCG, you will get 10 different answers.

I used it on my last cycle and ran it 2500 IU X 3 @ 7 day intervals.

**ulter** · 02-19-2002, 08:12 AM

Dude, you ask 10 people about HCG, you will get 10 different answers.

Maybe you will but I didn't ask 10 people I asked my endocrinologist. I have a script for HCG and that's exactly how I was directed to use it by the doctor for cycle recovery. Since this doctor treats more BBing AS users than anyone in the country I would suggest taking his advice and that's why I posted it. Not because the guys at the gym say this is how you use it.

**XBiker** · 02-19-2002, 08:18 AM

Originally posted by ulter

Maybe you will but I didn't ask 10 people I asked my endocrinologist. I have a script for HCG and that's exactly how I was directed to use it by the doctor for cycle recovery. Since this doctor treats more BBing AS users than anyone in the country I would suggest taking his advice and that's why I posted it. Not because the guys at the gym say this is how you use it.

Ask nine more and see what the conscensus is then.

**GenuinePL** · 02-19-2002, 08:24 AM

MONKEYNUTTZ!!! ANOTHER CYCLE!?!?!

What's wrong with you, after all this shit that you just went through. How are your liver and your kiddneys man. I hope you're feeling better. What did the doc say?

**ulter** · 02-19-2002, 08:25 AM

I have posted what Bill Roberts position is as well. I can go get other artilces by all the others who write about it and continue to post the same opinion by 10 people. But you haven't post ONE from anyone and I'm sorry but your personal opinion is worthless. In addition I don't get 4th and 5th opinions when something I do works for me. What's the point?

**XBiker** · 02-19-2002, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by ulter
I have posted what Bill Roberts position is as well. I can go get other artilces by all the others who write about it and continue to post the same opinion by 10 people. But you haven't post ONE from anyone and I'm sorry but your personal opinion is worthless. In addition I don't get 4th and 5th opinions when something I do works for me. What's the point?

It's not my opinion, it's my personal experience and it worked for me.

The main problem with using higher doses is the risk of gyno due to the estrogen increase. However, I was taking liquidex (as well as my lifting partner) and neither of us had any problems and received the benefit from the HCG treatment.

You know aristotle had a saying, "It's the mark of an educated man to entertain a theory without accepting it."

**hatchblack** · 02-19-2002, 12:53 PM

Is there any benefit to HCG usage for a first time user and if not...at what point (ie...after how many cycles) does it become it become necessary.

also, is there any benefit to switching to a shorter acting ester to reduce the time off before the beginning of clomid therapy?

also, if using a shorter esterl like prop...what are the rules for HCG therapy at that point???

Basically what I am asking for is how to gain the max muscle and retain the max. What is the perfect stack for a newbie first timer.

**ulter** · 02-19-2002, 01:03 PM

Your experience is not what dictates whether or not you use HCG . The length of your cycle and the amount of testicular atrophy you experience does. If you are only going to do an 8 week cycle (recommended) then you won't really need it.

**XBiker** · 02-19-2002, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by ulter
Your experience is not what dictates whether or not you use HCG. The length of your cycle and the amount of testicular atrophy you experience does. If you are only going to do an 8 week cycle (recommended) then you won't really need it.

I agree 100%.

**Mr. Africa** · 02-19-2002, 06:04 PM

pardon me...i never wanted to interfere with a colleague 's openion..but am a gynecologist myself and i know exactly what am saying..
may be you doc. saw you have sever testicular atrophy and he was performing a stimulation test on ya,may be he wanted to downregu;late them to decrease inhibin for a better FSH respons...
anywas take it easy i didn't want show you are wrong,,just trying to help brother
good luck all : )

**Mr. Africa** · 02-19-2002, 06:07 PM

btw the medical dose for pitutary dwarfs and pitutary castrated males is form 500-1500 3 times weekly ,this is just enough to get you a testosterone level from 5 to 10 ng/dl...if you take more your testosterone level will exceed 12 -which is unmaintainable -leading to down regulation...
good luck to all

**Mr. Africa** · 02-19-2002, 06:11 PM

guys,hcg is used DURING THE CYCLE mainly to PREVENT testicular atrophy...
why to you guys wait till it occurs then try to fix it and now you are fighting about how to fix it ??...some times testicular atrophy is irreversible ,and i ve seen a couple of ptns presenting by this exactly.....
so xbike,how long have you been using hcg in your last cycle ?

**coroner** · 02-19-2002, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by Mr. Africa
pardon me...i never wanted to interfere with a colleague 's openion..but am a gynecologist myself and i know exactly what am saying..
may be you doc. saw you have sever testicular atrophy and he was performing a stimulation test on ya,may be he wanted to downregu;late them to decrease inhibin for a better FSH respons...
anywas take it easy i didn't want show you are wrong,,just trying to help brother
good luck all : )

Do all doctors write, and type, bad? sheesh.

**Mr. Africa** · 02-19-2002, 06:37 PM

its my third language and am doing 100 things at the same time...

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