Bullsh*t

[frank_frank]

sorry im complaining and all, but i was talkin to one of my friends that wants to gain weight and get stronger..

he was talking about all these supplements and stuff and i asked if he ever thought about juice

his answer was "IM NOT GONNA TAKE THE 'EASY' WAY OUT"


WTF is that???? easy my a$$............ppl think that if u take steroids that u magically get bigger, stronger, etc.etc.etc.

ppl like this piss me off...

just had to get that off my chest sorry

[map200uk]

lol yea, steroids are the magic pil;l

umm i was speaking to some guy whos like 300lbs 20% bf

and he reckons if he trains naturally for a year he could easily add 50lbs and be like Arnold was without any hassle

i think that shows how ignorant people are in general

[mass junkie]

lol yea, steroids are the magic pil;l

umm i was speaking to some guy whos like 300lbs 20% bf

and he reckons if he trains naturally for a year he could easily add 50lbs and be like Arnold was without any hassle

i think that shows how ignorant people are in general

with those stats he probaly could

[map200uk]

mass, well im not sure on the bf but he was certainly fat, and he claimed he could it without use of any steroids, in a year max.

I just doubt it personally

and 50lbs a year is a lot to gain

[Beefbody]

when i first used i thought the gear would turn me into a monster but it does not work that way (for i was not to knowlegable at the time) i have to tell you about this one dude at the gym, i used to work behind the counter and this one skinny puke of a guy came up to me and asked if i had a protein powder that would not make him get too big because he dont want to look like ronnie coleman i actually started laughing histerical outloud in his face it was so fucing stupid what he just said, i showed him some powder we had and he said the protien content was to high and he would get to big and etc.. i then was pissed at this dumbass for being so dam stupid so i told him agfter he told me all this dumbass stuff i fuced with him and talked about htis anf=d that and said all this stuff would make him too big and not to use it (i was having a fun time now) one of the things io said was if you drink more than a half gallon of water you wouyld get very muscular and i mean thick and he laped it right up (like a dumbass should) he believed everything i said to him he deserved it for being stupid hope i fuced him good ha ha ha

[map200uk]

lol lovely Beefbody, so many people think you get big overnight or by eating a tiny bit extra lol

[UrbanLegend]

Well, steroids are not neccesarily an easy way out, but I do know people that take steroids for their appearance and don't workout.......and they still look better than the vast majority of people at my gym. Granted I do workout at a 24 hour fitness lol......

[DARKSEID]

once again we can thank the media for putting these uneducated thoughts into peoples minds

[BigPoppaV]

You guys can argue this till the cows come home but in some (READ: SOME) ways it is the easy way out.. how long would it take your body to put on that kind of muscle naturally that you would get from a good cycle? 3, 4 years ? I'm personally fine with using AAS because of a certain look and feel I want (that nice 24 hour pump but in some ways it is the easy way out, even though you still have to work your ass off. And think of it in another way, in short steroids help your body do what it can't naturally do, increasy protein synthesis and nitrogen balance.

[iron4life79]

steroids also help you achieve more than your genetic potential would ever let you do naturally.....

is this the easy way out? maybe for some, but i find that i work that much harder to solidify my gains, and i also work twice as hard to keep them when its over. my diet is cleaner, my training habits more sound, and i try to get the rest i need........off or on.

theres way more to this than bumping up against the pin.

peace I4L

[kingofmasters]

steroids also help you achieve more than your genetic potential would ever let you do naturally.....

is this the easy way out? maybe for some, but i find that i work that much harder to solidify my gains, and i also work twice as hard to keep them when its over. my diet is cleaner, my training habits more sound, and i try to get the rest i need........off or on.

theres way more to this than bumping up against the pin.

peace I4L

Amen brother! (Hard work shows off!)

But...
Well if you mean you can get past a traninglimit ("Hitting the wall") faster, then yes.
if you say past genetic limit, then no! --> Don't know who introduced this fact but No man has ever reached his genetic potential (even not Ronnie Coleman) you'll be surprised how much mass a body can hold on to (be it fat, water or muscle) --> Reaching Genetic Potential would be too stressful on immunesystem and result in death.
We can easily be bigger then Ronnie Coleman "in theory" "Clean", only thing is that we don't really understand the various mechanisms of the body, so growthpotential is small due to limited knowledge about food, rest, endogenous hormones and enzymes and training!

Fact is allthough everybody says diet and training is key (which is a good thing, if only for the fact that people won't rush in to steroid-use), give and take the same amount of gains is reachable if one uses steroids without training and supplies enough protein (and people with low bodyfat,; enough calories!), only thing is that under immuno-rays or in stress-testing we find out the quality of the gained muscle is far less and thus gains are harder to keep!

One of the many studies on this issue:
Schroeder ET, Terk M, Sattler FR. Androgen Therapy Improves Muscle Mass and Strength but Not Muscle Quality: Results from Two Studies. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 2003 Mar 11

I know many people will disagree with me because they are very dedicated to their lifestyle (As am I) and are very proud of it, but these are facts.

Greets
Kingofmasters

[iron4life79]

while i agree with you to a point(and i could be wrong here, i have been before).......if i can lift a weight that i know i couldnt while off cycle, isnt this exceeding my genetic limit?

i also understand the body holding all kinds of mass thing, be it muscle mass or fat. but if i'm holding more muscle than fat(way more in some cases), this tells me my genetic predisposition is towards fat retention. ive broken through that by holding more muscle mass...... explain more to me please bro.
maybe it IS a matter of a training limit, and not genetics, but i figure the juice would help with both............

peace I4L

[kingofmasters]

while i agree with you to a point(and i could be wrong here, i have been before).......if i can lift a weight that i know i couldnt while off cycle, isnt this exceeding my genetic limit?

i also understand the body holding all kinds of mass thing, be it muscle mass or fat. but if i'm holding more muscle than fat(way more in some cases), this tells me my genetic predisposition is towards fat retention. ive broken through that by holding more muscle mass...... explain more to me please bro.
maybe it IS a matter of a training limit, and not genetics, but i figure the juice would help with both............

peace I4L

Genetics is offcourse key --> Only thing is that the point that our genetics allows us to reach is way beyond what any normal human can reach in a lifetime..

Every human has a certain ratio of Type I to Type II musclefibers (why some people are more likely to be powerlifters and some more to be Cyclists) and coupled to that a "setpoint" for fat (We don't understand yet how this works, but it has to do with Neuro-peptide Y(NP-Y), Leptin, Insulin, (NP-K), (NP-B), we can adjust this but it really must be gradually and slowly and is exactly the reason why people who loose a lot of weight, experience the dreaded rebound effect!).

Now I am not an Ergogenics Student yet, but in some
Introduction-Masterclasses I learned that the most important thing in breaking limits ("Hitting the Wall") is REST, PLAIN and SIMPLE due to its regenerative effects --> I can confirm this in practice by many people I know but the most obvious example would be my Freefight-Teacher who after 4 years of training was stuck and only could lower bodyfat and increase strength (he never juiced), then after a break (he became father) of a year or so he went back training and immediately he was beyond that point and is still growing (the time off was the REST).

Now Einstein can eleborate on this, but to me it would seem that sleep would be so regenerative due to HGH-release, then why don't we get the same results from injecting massive amounts of HGH? --> And this is exactly the point in almost all issues concerning the Human body; Everything is linked to each other or has hidden processes, or relies on feedbacksystems hence simply feeding/erradicating one element doesn't solve the problem due to the many interlinks (Exactly why morbid Obesity is such a problem --> simply adding T3-metabolites is dangerous etc.).

Now as HUGO-research continues we learn more about the many interlinks and thus can apply this in training/nutrition/rest etc. and have better results.

As to your question:
Anabolic and Androgenic Agents probably let us achieve such good results and go beyond that plateau is because the different interlinks of supplying (modified) testosterone are almost all positive on growth (testosterone is anabolic and binds to androgen-receptors for sextrades which also increase the amount we can train e.g. pumps, estrogen cause glucogen utilization, increase IGF, the through supplementation and attitude increased appetite increases insulin-levels etc.).

My theory about Testosterone being so positive on growth (due to its positive effect on all interlinks) is that through evolution (I am a huge fan on Darwin) the most succesful organismes proved to be the ones with the simplest build (why insects are so widespread!), the testosterone-production in puberty (with the purpose of expressing sextrades and growth) would be simple enough to achieve the goals without affecting more hormones (because then more can go wrong; and the simple build is compromised leaving evolutionary succes low).
HGH is too complex of a hormone and to inflicted in all processes through-out the body that a simple positive connection on interlinks is impossible.
But then this is only a theory and I honestly would not know the real deal.

I hope I put it simple enough to be understandable.

Greets
Kingofmasters

[Senior_FKG]

i really hate it when people say this, i don't know whats easy about training your ass off in the gym...eating enough grams of protein and carbs and calories in general...not going out on a friday night when all your friends are going to a bar because you want to get enough sleep before your saturday morning training session...the only thing easy about being a steroid user is loooking at the amazing results your are achieving from everything else that you worked hard for

[iron4life79]

wow..........

interesting stuff, and i understood most of it........lol.

while this dosent clear everything up for me, it does give me pause. i might dig a little deeper here, as you have my attention now.

peace I4L

[UrbanDawg]

all you juice heads are pussies

real men use cell-tech

j/k bros ... soy protien is really the ****

sorry im complaining and all, but i was talkin to one of my friends that wants to gain weight and get stronger..

he was talking about all these supplements and stuff and i asked if he ever thought about juice

his answer was "IM NOT GONNA TAKE THE 'EASY' WAY OUT"


WTF is that???? easy my a$$............ppl think that if u take steroids that u magically get bigger, stronger, etc.etc.etc.

ppl like this piss me off...

just had to get that off my chest sorry

[frank_frank]

all you juice heads are pussies

real men use cell-tech

j/k bros ... soy protien is really the ****

hahahha!!!!!

lol

[cpt steele]

What celltech doesnt make you look like Ronnie

[frank_frank]

What celltech doesnt make you look like Ronnie

no but i heard if u combine cell tech and nitro tech, u will look like ronnie