would u take this cycle approach for these goals?

**redwizza** · 07-13-2004, 01:17 PM

stats: 198 pounds, 12% fat. 5'8 hight. 5th cycle. defenitally between meso and endo body!
goal: gain lean mass (10 solid pounds atleast would be lovely), and be at maximum 8-9 % fat at the end of the cycle.
I will only begin this cycle once im down to maximum 10% fat. also, im aiming for minor or no noticable water retention (god **** moon face from test, i hate it.

cycle i want to do:
1-12> test enanthate or sustanon 250mg per week
1-12> test propionate 50mg pd shot in bis/legs/ shoulders/triceps.
1-12> winny tabs 30mg pd (a particular brand that i cant seem to get any reviews on!! more on that in next thread i post)

i will also add anti e'(s) for sure and im debating over which i should do:
30mg nolvadex per day
clomid 50mg per day with 20mg nolva

i love proviron but im not using it coz it gives me ALOT of acne post cycles. and i want to stay away from arimidex coz of its effects on cholesterol and POSSIBLE libido/fatigue problems.

diet (carbs 250-350 g pd depending on progress and goals. protein 1g per LEAN body mass. and 35-45 g per day of efa's on top of small amounts of whatever fat i eat from the foods.

only supplements: multi vits and mins eod and dorian yates pro peptide protein mixture product (love it).

any comments/suggestions would be appreciated

**jmp51483** · 07-13-2004, 01:18 PM

Im just curious as to why you would take Enan and Prop for the same exact time period? either jumpstart your cycle with it 1-4 or end your cycle with it 9-12... That's what I would do.

**map200uk** · 07-13-2004, 01:21 PM

hey red,

yep the prop/e i dont see why running them both the same time

and 12 wks of winny? that's too long,. and the dose (30mg) is too low

**redwizza** · 07-13-2004, 01:24 PM

i should have addressed that. only reason i want to do that instead of doing 75mg of prop with the winny as i planned before, is becasue i just want to see if my body would react/benefit well using TWO diff. esters instead of one. so im just curious as to what would happen, and im sure that it OK to do since im really using just test in both cases.

**map200uk** · 07-13-2004, 01:25 PM

hey red, it would be ok, sure , just wondered why

**SportsMedVIP** · 07-13-2004, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by redwizza

i should have addressed that. only reason i want to do that instead of doing 75mg of prop with the winny as i planned before, is becasue i just want to see if my body would react/benefit well using TWO diff. esters instead of one. so im just curious as to what would happen, and im sure that it OK to do since im really using just test in both cases.

I guess we'll chalk that idea up to experimentation, but 12 weeks of winnie is too long. Run it 6 weeks max, 40-50mg ED. 4 weeks would be enough. Don't use sust in this experiment. It would be too wacky with it's own 4 ester blend. Use prop and enanthate or sust alone if you want to see the results of multiple esters. You only need 10mg ED of Nolva while on cycle. 20mg ED during PCT. That and clomid should be fine but I like the arimidex /nolva combo.

**redwizza** · 07-13-2004, 02:26 PM

ok thanks. will do. 50mg prop pd +250mg test e per week + 50mg winny last 6-8 weeks + 10-20 mg nolva pd depending on water bloat. meanwhile i need reviews on a particular thai winny. heard its potent. plz read the new thread. thanks again.

**RAM2500** · 07-13-2004, 03:11 PM

test enanthate or sustanon 250mg per week seems low

**BASK8KACE** · 07-13-2004, 03:19 PM

redwizza,

Don't treat sustanon the same as you treat enanthate . Sustanon is not a good choice for a low dose cycle due to the short acting esters of testosterone in it. Part of the reason you can get results on a low dose cycle of cypionate and enanthate is due to the long lasting esters which allow testosterone to build up in your system.

Consider this exaggerated example to understand my point:
If you inject 250mg of testosterone enanthate or cypionate in your body each week, the tesosterone will build up. However, if you inject 250mg of propionate in your body each week, it will essentially dissipate in 2-3 days leaving you without much (if any) testosterone for the last 4-5 days of the week. This is what happens to the short acting elements of sustanon.

If you plan to use sustanon, you should strongly consider injecting it more frequently than once or twice per week--inorder to get the full benefit of all its components.

I's suggest starting with 250-300mg of testoserone enanthate per week with your PCT and anti-e's (if you choose to use them during the cycle) in hand before you start.