PRO says PRO-HORMONES A MUST!! please read...

[AnabolicAlien]

I have a friend who's 5'8" 270 lbs with abs, benches 700+.

I asked him why taking 200mg eq eod and 250 sust eod isn't doing much for me (well... gained like 15 pounds). It's my fourth cycle. Time on = Time off. Diet, exercise, sleep are great. I'm still only 202 pounds and 5'10".

He said something like this and I've never heard of it before although I've been on this board a long time.

1. He said a bodybuilder/powerlifter should start with prohormones for the first cycle. He named off all the good ones. Gains will be good.

2. Next cycle he said do "real" steroids only and moderate dose (700mg test/week + deca or eq if you want). Gains will be great.

3. For any cycles after that you need to do prohormones with the "real" steroids to see amazing gains. He explained it like this: The first time you do "real" steroids your prohormone levels are normal and you get great gains. Everyone gets great gains their first cycle. After that, when you cycle your prohormone levels are less and the ratio of "real" steroids to prohormones is lousy.

So if:

A ---> B ----> C ----> D where A,B,C = prohormones and D = "real steroids" after you put a lot of D in your body, the body's production of D drops but so do A,B,C. He said in addition to "real" steroids the body also needs at least normal levels of prohormones for maximum growth.

I'm half way through a cycle and I'm going to go add prohormones to see what happens.

Any thoughts on this? I hope I explained what he said well enough.

E.T.

[Da Bull]

LOL...I'm laughing to the fact you said you've been on this board a long time.May is a long time?..LOL...

Never heard anything like what your powerlifter friend has said,probably because most ppl on boards like this hate PH's.

[AnabolicAlien]

oh - had different names on here. been on and off since 2000.

E.T.

[Da Bull]

oh - had different names on here. been on and off since 2000.

E.T.

OK...makes sense...I've heard intergalactic travel makes some species want to change thier identities from time to time...not certain of the reason tho

[Bob Balco]

Hey just my advice. Dont mess with pro hormones dude. I took a prohormone cycle about 3 years after being off juice. I swear I actually got worse side effects that when i was on a serious cycle. My nipples were burning and inflammed, acne on back etc. It sucked. It was the Anotest from Muscle tech. The stuff blows man.

[monstercojones]

unless i'm mistaken, pro hormones are simply chemical precursors to the real thing. they simply purport to increase your testerone levels by adding a substance to your system that stimulates testerone production or converts to some form of naladrolone (sp) derivative after ingestion. so saying that your pro hormone levels are lessened by AS use is useless information.

it stands to reason that you'd be better off simply injecting the actual hormones you're trying to produce by taking pro-h's.

[monstercojones]

Hey just my advice. Dont mess with pro hormones dude. I took a prohormone cycle about 3 years after being off juice. I swear I actually got worse side effects that when i was on a serious cycle. My nipples were burning and inflammed, acne on back etc. It sucked. It was the Anotest from Muscle tech. The stuff blows man.

yup... i got worse sides from m1t than i ever did from test, tren , deca , dbol , drol, eq, etc...

[Blown_SC]

Never heard anything like what your powerlifter friend has said,probably because most ppl on boards like this hate PH's.

Hey DB...

Is this because they feel PH's are money wasted? (Meaning they could be spending their cash on gear instead, getting better results)

Or is there another reason? Just curious...

[scotttiger54]

**** prohormones

[Da Bull]

Hey DB...

Is this because they feel PH's are money wasted? (Meaning they could be spending their cash on gear instead, getting better results)

Or is there another reason? Just curious...

True..most feel it's money wasted,since you can run a cycle for half the price of PH's and get REAL results.Another is the fact that on PH's you get all the harsh sides of anabolics,but never the results.

[Blown_SC]

True..most feel it's money wasted,since you can run a cycle for half the price of PH's and get REAL results.Another is the fact that on PH's you get all the harsh sides of anabolics,but never the results.

OK thanks...

I read above that someone got bad sides on M1T...worse than he had on gear...

I've never used either, but, that and the price alone, turns me away from PH's...

[Angelis]

"3. For any cycles after that you need to do prohormones with the "real" steroids to see amazing gains. He explained it like this: The first time you do "real" steroids your prohormone levels are normal and you get great gains. Everyone gets great gains their first cycle. After that, when you cycle your prohormone levels are less and the ratio of "real" steroids to prohormones is lousy."

okay I dont get that pro hormones are supposed to increase natural test in your body isnt the point of AAS to switch from natural Test to AAS for a period of time.

[AnabolicAlien]

seems like the ones who've replied haven't even read the original post. i never said anything about a pro-hormone only cycle now. i'm just saying this guy swears by the idea that when on your levels of dhea, diols, and other prohormones are real low so you need to supplement them too... got it?

oh - and angelis: why do you think they call them PRO-hormones?? to some extent the usually get converted to real steroids .

E.T.

[Angelis]

prohormones dont get converted to steroids they get converted to natural test mostly

[einstein1905]

I have a friend who's 5'8" 270 lbs with abs, benches 700+.

I asked him why taking 200mg eq eod and 250 sust eod isn't doing much for me (well... gained like 15 pounds). It's my fourth cycle. Time on = Time off. Diet, exercise, sleep are great. I'm still only 202 pounds and 5'10".

He said something like this and I've never heard of it before although I've been on this board a long time.

1. He said a bodybuilder/powerlifter should start with prohormones for the first cycle. He named off all the good ones. Gains will be good.

2. Next cycle he said do "real" steroids only and moderate dose (700mg test/week + deca or eq if you want). Gains will be great.

3. For any cycles after that you need to do prohormones with the "real" steroids to see amazing gains. He explained it like this: The first time you do "real" steroids your prohormone levels are normal and you get great gains. Everyone gets great gains their first cycle. After that, when you cycle your prohormone levels are less and the ratio of "real" steroids to prohormones is lousy.

So if:

A ---> B ----> C ----> D where A,B,C = prohormones and D = "real steroids" after you put a lot of D in your body, the body's production of D drops but so do A,B,C. He said in addition to "real" steroids the body also needs at least normal levels of prohormones for maximum growth.

I'm half way through a cycle and I'm going to go add prohormones to see what happens.

Any thoughts on this? I hope I explained what he said well enough.

E.T.

I say this all too often....just because someone is big and can push big weight, this does not mean that they have a clue what they're talking about.

Using AAS shuts down the biosynthetic pathways that lead to test production, the very same pathway that "prohormones" will be involved in. So, taking prohormones WITH AAS is about the absolute worst time to be using them

[Angelis]

isnt that what I said b4 without all the scientific babble

[daos]

I say this all too often....just because someone is big and can push big weight, this does not mean that they have a clue what they're talking about.

Using AAS shuts down the biosynthetic pathways that lead to test production, the very same pathway that "prohormones" will be involved in. So, taking prohormones WITH AAS is about the absolute worst time to be using them

AMEN!

[Lozgod]

seems like the ones who've replied haven't even read the original post. i never said anything about a pro-hormone only cycle now. i'm just saying this guy swears by the idea that when on your levels of dhea, diols, and other prohormones are real low so you need to supplement them too... got it?

oh - and angelis: why do you think they call them PRO-hormones?? to some extent the usually get converted to real steroids .

E.T.

I would see a benefit stacking DHEA with pro-hormones, but not AAS's. Using pro-hormones during an AAS cycle is such a waste of money, I think this is his own personal theory and it is wrong. A little thought and logic tells me so anyway.

[Lozgod]

isnt that what I said b4 without all the scientific babble

Not really. Not even close.

[AnabolicAlien]

sheesh...

einstein1905 you're still not getting what i'm saying or asking... are anabolic steroids and pro-hormones synergistic? does adding prohomes in a cycle cause increased muscle growth not because it gets converted to test, i know the pathways are shut down; but rather because of their own actions on the body?

E.T.

[MMC78]

3. For any cycles after that you need to do prohormones with the "real" steroids to see amazing gains. He explained it like this: The first time you do "real" steroids your prohormone levels are normal and you get great gains. Everyone gets great gains their first cycle. After that, when you cycle your prohormone levels are less and the ratio of "real" steroids to prohormones is lousy.

AAAAAAAACCCCCHOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Ugh... sniff... sorry, I'm allergic to Bull****.

[Ntpadude]

OK thanks...

I read above that someone got bad sides on M1T...worse than he had on gear...

I've never used either, but, that and the price alone, turns me away from PH's...

I've been on cycle since March... started with deca , been on test en throughout... very last month of this cycle, I decided to try M1T with the last of my test en and I got suprised... getting the best growth now out of the entire cycle...

I've done 1-testosterone before, but I think all off it gets burned off in stomach or something and none absorbs... this is until M1T... I did was much as 500 mg a day in the T-Bombs and never had as much results as I am getting now with 20 mg of M1T.

That said, M1T seems to give an aweful lot of lethargy... makes you tired by day, but **** the insomnia is the worst I've had against anything except anadrol .

[einstein1905]

sheesh...

einstein1905 you're still not getting what i'm saying or asking... are anabolic steroids and pro-hormones synergistic? does adding prohomes in a cycle cause increased muscle growth not because it gets converted to test, i know the pathways are shut down; but rather because of their own actions on the body?

E.T.

No, their actions come from their resulting conversion to active compounds, which won't occur during HPTA suppression

[AnabolicAlien]

i should also mention that my friend talks to ronnie coleman in person... ronnie says the same thing.... and before any of you laugh and say i'm full of siht - don't waste your time because frankly i don't care. i just wanted to see if any others have heard of this.

ntpadude - thanks. that's what i was looking for. people just saying bull**** with nothing to back it help doesn't help me at all.

E.T.

[Lozgod]

i should also mention that my friend talks to ronnie coleman in person... ronnie says the same thing.... and before any of you laugh and say i'm full of **** - don't waste your time because frankly i don't care. i just wanted to see if any others have heard of this.

E.T.

I can believe that your friend knows Ronnie, its not uncommon for serious lifters to know Pro's. I just dont fathom how that could work. I mean molecularly it makes no sense.

[AnabolicAlien]

lozgod... it's very simple.. i don't see how it could not make sense. i could see how you may not believe it though but it's easy to make sense of. maybe you've been away from basic chemistry too long. don't take it personally.

E.T.

[einstein1905]

i should also mention that my friend talks to ronnie coleman in person... ronnie says the same thing.... and before any of you laugh and say i'm full of **** - don't waste your time because frankly i don't care. i just wanted to see if any others have heard of this.

E.T.

Ronnie's big and can push a lot of weight. Stephen Hawking is little and can't walk.

My point is.....just because someone is big (or even a pro) does not mean they have a clue as to what's going on in their body. Great genetics isn't synonymous with inherent knowledge of human physiology

[Lozgod]

lozgod... it's very simple.. i don't see how it could not make sense. i could see how you may not believe it though but it's easy to make sense of. maybe you've been away from basic chemistry too long. don't take it personally.

E.T.

OK Then I am calling you out since you havent been away too long. Explain how this would work chemically.

[einstein1905]

lozgod... it's very simple.. i don't see how it could not make sense. i could see how you may not believe it though but it's easy to make sense of. maybe you've been away from basic chemistry too long. don't take it personally.

E.T.

You're right, it is simple. By taking in exogenous AAS, you're shutting down the HPTA, which is the very thing responsible for converting prohormones into anything worthwhile

[Lozgod]

You're right, it is simple. By taking in exogenous AAS, you're shutting down the HPTA, which is the very thing responsible for convertign prohormones into anything worthwhile

Exactly.

[AnabolicAlien]

chemically we know real roids will make us grow.. no doubt.

the question is can we grow more on real roids if precurors to these roids are around too? we know that some precursors (prohormones) can cause growth to some degree or at least support it. we know that when you inject say, a lot of test, not only will your body's test production drop but your body's precursors to test will drop. see what i mean? if you think about it that make sense at least.... you don't have to agree on real roids causing more growth of you keep the precursor levels up too.

E.T.

oh - and einstein... didn't realize you were a mod.. hope i didn't come off as an ass... i just get really into discussions like this.

[Lozgod]

You're right, it is simple. By taking in exogenous AAS, you're shutting down the HPTA, which is the very thing responsible for converting prohormones into anything worthwhile

Allow me, who has been away from basic chemisrty too long give a little more detailed answer.

Not much more, but something for Mr. Chemistry Not Been Away From to rebuttal. The pro-hormones molecualrly are the pre-cursors for the manufacturing of test, or nor-test, and what not. If your body isn't producing any you could take all the pro-hormones in the world, and you wont have any additional boost in test levels. Sooooooooooooo tell me how this is supposed to work since you arent too far removed from basic chemistry.

P.S. I didn't take it personal, I hope you don't when you are wrong.

[AnabolicAlien]

nothing personal at all man...

i think you think that i think the prohormes can help during a real juice cycle because they get convered to test, etc.

what i'm saying is that they will act independently of whatever you're injecting... not that they will get converted to anything; that they will act directly.

E.T.

[einstein1905]

chemically we know real roids will make us grow.. no doubt.

the question is can we grow more on real roids if precurors to these roids are around too? we know that some precursors (prohormones) can cause growth to some degree or at least support it. we know that when you inject say, a lot of test, not only will your body's test production drop but your body's precursors to test will drop. see what i mean? if you think about it that make sense at least.... you don't have to agree on real roids causing more growth of you keep the precursor levels up too.

E.T.

Your body's test production drops because the precusors to it drop, as does everything else all the way up the pathway all the way up to GnRH.

I'll go back to the old "brick" analogy....
you have bricklayers building brickwalls....taking exo AAS is like making the bricklayers go on vacation....you can bring all the bricks (precursors to brick walls) to the site that you want, but this will not contribute to more brick walls, since the very things responsible for utilizing the bricks , the bricklayers, are not doing their job


the bottleneck is the enzymatic conversion of prohormones to actual usable compounds, and this doesn't occur during HPTA shutdown

[Blown_SC]

I've been on cycle since March... started with deca , been on test en throughout... very last month of this cycle, I decided to try M1T with the last of my test en and I got suprised... getting the best growth now out of the entire cycle...

I've done 1-testosterone before, but I think all off it gets burned off in stomach or something and none absorbs... this is until M1T... I did was much as 500 mg a day in the T-Bombs and never had as much results as I am getting now with 20 mg of M1T.

That said, M1T seems to give an aweful lot of lethargy... makes you tired by day, but **** the insomnia is the worst I've had against anything except anadrol.

OK.. thanks alot for the follow-up bro! I appreciate it...

[Lozgod]

what i'm saying is that they will act independently of whatever you're injecting... not that they will get converted to anything; that they will act directly.

E.T.

No they don't do anything without conversion. Even our own natural pro-hormones become useless and eventually non-existant once HPTA gets shu down. Now to take them during PCT might have a benenfit come to think of it.

[einstein1905]

nothing personal at all man...

i think you think that i think the prohormes can help during a real juice cycle because they get convered to test, etc.

what i'm saying is that they will act independently of whatever you're injecting... not that they will get converted to anything; that they will act directly.

E.T.

No, their functionality comes from their conversion into functional compounds......just their being androgenic structures can lower SHBG very slightly, but that's negligible.

[Lozgod]

Hey Einstein give me opinion on this if you have a moment.

Pro_hormones compliment Clomid?

[Ntpadude]

chemically we know real roids will make us grow.. no doubt.

the question is can we grow more on real roids if precurors to these roids are around too? we know that some precursors (prohormones) can cause growth to some degree or at least support it. we know that when you inject say, a lot of test, not only will your body's test production drop but your body's precursors to test will drop. see what i mean? if you think about it that make sense at least.... you don't have to agree on real roids causing more growth of you keep the precursor levels up too.

I dont think lower precursurs are going to hold up your recovery. When your body is ready to make testosterone , it will. Take some HCG after or during a deca cycle and your natural testosterone will soar rather quickly. Also tongkat/tribulus along with clomid for PCT and people doing this type of PCT sometimes never notice any drop in sex drive as compared to when they were on full cycle. My last PCT consisted of tongkat/tribulis/clomid, I only had zero sex drive for about 2 days, then everything kicked in, balls doubled in size in just a handful of days between 14 and 20 days after my last testosterone enanthate injection and I was well back into full recovery and cum loads that... well lets say wife was shocked when I was pumping her mouth with almost a coffee cup amount of jizz.

[cpt steele]

so et when you are filling your body with an exogenous substance (test) the body shuts all the doors for any of its own conversions....If you have a rocket motor mounted on your car is that 110hp kia engine going to assist in the acceleration of the car...mmmmm NO