I've heard enough

[Noob2Juice]

Everyone on here says don't do Deca alone, DON'T DO IT ALONE it shuts u down. Ok I understand that, but at only 300mg a week for 10 weeks???? I've done my research seen plenty of people do it by itself at the dose per week and had nothing but good gains and kept almost all of it maybe losing 5 lbs. if that. Not only that , but if you've ever checked out other websites with sample cycles, alot of them will show a Deca only cycle for beginngers. Now when you talk about it on here, every single person makes a negative comment about it. So what's the deal???? Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds to me like anyone who has any of the known side effects with Deca is prolly taking WAAAAYY to much of it without adding any test at all. My point is that for medical purposes, some patients are given 200mg a week by itself, is another 100 going to make a difference?? From all the research I've done, 200-400 a week is consider very mild and should give very good gains for a first time user. I've been criticized on this site for "not doing enough research" when in fact I've been contemplating using AS for at least 3 years now constantly reading up on it. I can take the flaming, that's not the problem, I'm just curious as to whether or not when someone says they are using Deca alone if everyone automatically assumes they are using 600-800mg or more a week without test. Now I know that chances are that would definatly shut anyone down, but from observing friends and people who are more experienced than I am with AS, Deca at only 300mg a week will give me the gains I'm looking for without the worry of many side effects and losing most of what I gain as I would if I were on test. PCT is already in check as well which I know is necessary with any cycle. Take your shots fellas, i'm anxious to hear what you all have to say, negative or positive.

[stielow775]

Thats what I have heard to and to use nolvadex with it daily to prevent gyno if your prone to it. The only down side is that its hard on your liver.

stielow

[TheMudMan]

Did you know that using Deca, Fina...... without test increases your chances of getting progestrogen related gyno from increased prolactin levels........ also with increased prolactin could very will decrease your libido.

I would always run test in all cycles no matter what I was running......... Test will keep your moods a lot more stable, keep libido up.......

[TheMudMan]

Thats what I have heard to and to use nolvadex with it daily to prevent gyno if your prone to it. The only down side is that its hard on your liver.

stielow

Nolva is used to keep estrogen from binding to receptor sites. So Nolva will do nothing when using deca..... and Nolva is not ard on your liver and will keep lipids stable.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Thats what I have heard to and to use nolvadex with it daily to prevent gyno if your prone to it. The only down side is that its hard on your liver.

stielow

Gyno only happens when you have test

Id like to see your PCT for this deca only...
and FWIW I lost 2 lbs on my test alone.... so I kept 19 lbs...

yeah test alone is dumb and you will lose it all and get bitch tits!!!

[Noob2Juice]

Clomid Therapy 3 weeks after last shot:

Day 1 Day 2 Day 3 Day 4 Day 5 Day 6 Day 7
Week 1 300 mg 100 mg 100 mg 100 mg 100 mg 100 mg 100 mg
Week 2 100 mg 100 mg 100 mg 100 mg 50 mg 50 mg 50 mg
Week 3 50 mg 50 mg 50 mg 50 mg 50 mg 50 mg 50 mg

[Anhydro78]

You have been researching for three years and the cycle you want to do is a Deca only cycle. You must not give a d@mn about all the information you read. Wheres any articles,studys or any thing that tells you this cycle is all right. I bet all you have read is that you cant take it by itself.

heres somthing from another site written by Macro at superior muscle

Deca and You by Macro
A short reply to 2thick- on the anabolic board

In honor of Ranger-who knows well the potential evils of Deca

Nandrolone, popularly known as Deca, is a classified as a progestin. Deca derives many of its benefits from its progestenic nature: including, but not limited to, increase IM fat storage and increased fluid retention in the joints from glucocorticoid(GC) stimulation.

Deca is the most widely used form of prescription contraception in the first world. Deca is superior to testosterone as a form of birth control because its progestenic effects which result in rapid onset of azoospermia. Progestins are used similarly in women, progestins given to women in birth control pills and other drugs such as norgestrel and norethidrone are classified as 19-nor-testosterone or 19 nor- progesterone derivatives. Natural progesterone plays an important role in sexual arousal- affecting GABA to a considerable extent. The addition of progestins like deca which compete with progesterone and decrease its production may result in drastically reduced sexual arousal. Interestingly enough, the chemical castration of sex offenders, is acheived through the use of a 19-nortestosterone derivative.

This brings us to the second most common problem with the use of progestenic drugs like Deca, the breast tissue has both PR(progesterone receptors) and ER(estrogen receptors) and stimulation of either will result in new tissue formation and growth. This will vary considerably from individual to individuals based on the numbers and ratio of receptors in the tissue. Some individuals have more PR, which will make them more susceptable to Gyno. Another suspected factor is that there are slightly physiologically different PR, as well as ER and AR, which may effect binding and expression of synthetic progestins either positively or negatively.

The use of Anti-estrogens and Aromatase-inhibitors will help by reducing stimulation of the ER in the breast tissue. However, those with high concentrations of PR or PR whose physiology allows for greater binding or expression of progestins will be faced with developing Gynomacastia.

In short

1. DECA dick is real

2. DECA does cause Gyno

3. DECA is progestin it must be fought with anti-progestins

4. Use of Nolvadex and Arimidex will help, but only by reducing ER stimulation.

Peace

[FINAMAN]

Everyone on here says don't do Deca alone, DON'T DO IT ALONE it shuts u down. Ok I understand that, but at only 300mg a week for 10 weeks???? I've done my research seen plenty of people do it by itself at the dose per week and had nothing but good gains and kept almost all of it maybe losing 5 lbs. if that. Not only that , but if you've ever checked out other websites with sample cycles, alot of them will show a Deca only cycle for beginngers. Now when you talk about it on here, every single person makes a negative comment about it. So what's the deal???? Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds to me like anyone who has any of the known side effects with Deca is prolly taking WAAAAYY to much of it without adding any test at all. My point is that for medical purposes, some patients are given 200mg a week by itself, is another 100 going to make a difference?? From all the research I've done, 200-400 a week is consider very mild and should give very good gains for a first time user. I've been criticized on this site for "not doing enough research" when in fact I've been contemplating using AS for at least 3 years now constantly reading up on it. I can take the flaming, that's not the problem, I'm just curious as to whether or not when someone says they are using Deca alone if everyone automatically assumes they are using 600-800mg or more a week without test. Now I know that chances are that would definatly shut anyone down, but from observing friends and people who are more experienced than I am with AS, Deca at only 300mg a week will give me the gains I'm looking for without the worry of many side effects and losing most of what I gain as I would if I were on test. PCT is already in check as well which I know is necessary with any cycle. Take your shots fellas, i'm anxious to hear what you all have to say, negative or positive.

If you wanna run something alone if anything run Test.

[Whirlpool]

WHy not run Test with it? Only going to help.

[SwoleCat]

Have a blast w/Deca d*ck.

~SC~

[monstercojones]

Have a blast w/Deca d*ck.

~SC~

i'm sure his grrl will too.

[dumblucky]

crud man, if you want to ........ do it............., dont listen to anyone here with real experience btw throw in some crack ED and tell how it goes

[Anhydro78]

What Dflood said why dont you use 300mgs of testosterone a week if you are worried about side effects. With 300mgs of anything, nothings gonna runup on you too fast.

[Krunchtime]

noob2juice.....I asked myself why someome would name themself that....now I know... Happy growing... well at least some parts will grow

[Ntpadude]

OK my question is, what do you have against testosterone? Are you afraid of water bloat? Cant afford it along with deca? Just being the type of guy that wants to reinvent the wheel and go against the conventional wisdom of countless other guys who've done deca alone and swore never do that again without testosterone stack?

Dont want water bloat, then do a testosterone other then test en or test cyp. Real prone to gyno? Then you shouldnt be playing with steriods anyways, go natural. Deca only cycles are good only for women. For men, the gains are inferior and most guys like to try out their new good looks when their muscles are growing and women are becoming more attracted. Sure would suck all the chicas are begging to give you a blowie but you cannot give it to them, nor are you even interested.

As for side effects of testosterone... actually theres a lot of guys doing 500 mg a week or less of testosterone actually dont need anti-estrogens. Its the guys running 750, 1000, 1500, 2000 mg a week that definately need them. Some guys can actually run 750 mg a week and run no anti-e's at all, in fact you dont get as bad of cholesterol when you run no anti-e's provided you can do this and not get the gyno going.

Test versus deca, both can have side effects, taking both at same time allows you to do less of each one and actually counter each other's side effects. Testosterone is taken primarily to counter deca's worst side effect, and deca allows the testosterone's gains to be just as keepable as the deca's.

[Noob2Juice]

I dunno, I just don't understand it anymore. I have close friends and people I just talk to here and there that have done it by itself with no problems at all at the same dosage yet every last person on here says to add test which I know will only help but I'm not trying to make my hair fall out and get that bloated look that when some dude walks in to the gym you can just look at him and know that he's on some kind of testosterone cuz he's big yet has the look as if water were ready to explode out of his bicep. I'm fairly cut up, toned and just want to add some more good quality muscle to my frame. Here's some of what I've been reading so you can realize that I have done research and not completely blind to all of this:

I got these off of various sites while looking up sample cycles

Beginner cycle with Deca-Durabolin
week Deca-Durabolin

(mg/week)
Clomid

(mg/week)

1 200
2 300
3 400
4 400
5 300
6 200
7 200
(mg/day)
Clomid
8 100
9 50
10 50

DOSAGE NEEDED: 10 vials of DECA-DURABOLIN & 30 tabs of CLOMID

- This stack is one of the safest stack

- Deca-Durabolin is injected once per week

- First time user can expect 12-20 lbs of quality muscle mass

- Clomid is used to increase natural level of testosterone

- Clomid is taken with meal, usually with lunch; when you take 2 tabs/day, take first tab with breakfast and second tab with lunch

Ok so if I decide to throw in test e at 500mg's a week is that going to be to much for a beginner along with the 300mg a week of Deca? Do I need the nolvadex or should I just have in case I really need it? And as far as PCT can I still stick with what was planned for which was to start it 3 weeks after the last shot???

[Mr. Sparkle]

If you know what your doing your face will not blow up.... Mine looks the exact same... we took some pictures a few days before I started and my face looks the same now.... we are telling you this for a reason. and all of those people you talk about I will almost bet that they havent used test either. because if they have they will never ever not use it......

[Ntpadude]

I dunno, I just don't understand it anymore. I have close friends and people I just talk to here and there that have done it by itself with no problems at all at the same dosage yet every last person on here says to add test which I know will only help but I'm not trying to make my hair fall out and get that bloated look that when some dude walks in to the gym you can just look at him and know that he's on some kind of testosterone cuz he's big yet has the look as if water were ready to explode out of his bicep. I'm fairly cut up, toned and just want to add some more good quality muscle to my frame. Here's some of what I've been reading so you can realize that I have done research and not completely blind to all of this:

I got these off of various sites while looking up sample cycles

Beginner cycle with Deca-Durabolin
week Deca-Durabolin

(mg/week)
Clomid

Well that pyramiding is antiquated data. Pyramiding makes you gain less and does nothing to bring you back to normal in the end. Consistency is what brings growth.

Also myself, I've pyramided a deca cycle within a testosterone cycle. This means I've done 20 weeks of testosterone and within the middle of it, 10 weeks included deca. Let me say, testosterone give me a minimal amount of water bloat but when the deca comes in, so does the water. Deca causes much more water bloatness then testosterone. Also deca gains up fat like crazy along with muscle where testosterone actually burns it off. I've done both so I am talking from direct first hand experience and my experience is very similar to everyone elses doing deca.

My deca portions of cycles have blown me up from 10% to 20% body fat FAST, then when the deca runs out I keep running the testosterone to burn off the deca FAT and convert it to muscle. If you want to know why deca's weight gain is so keepable after end of the cycle, thats because its hard to get rid of fat and deca will pile plenty of it on ya!

[Noob2Juice]

Check your private messages real quick if your still checking this post

[Anhydro78]

First of all I would like to say sorry for anyone that tried to insult your intellagence. I am not trying to proove you wrong or anything like that guy. Its just that I have done a Deca only cycle, and my penis still worked that isnt what I thought was the main issue. What I didnt like was that after my Deca only cycle I was weaker and fatter. I had no energy and it lasted after my cycle as well. As far as im concerned it was a waste.And there is no reason for people to do the same thing when a good majority of people have allready done the same and didnt like it. I have no Idea what people are thinking when they write these books,or cycle plans for websites. But this is exactly how all of us got duped into doing a Deca only cycle. The people that write steroid books must not do steroids other wise they wouldnt put that in there. once again not trying to be harse just trying to help a Bro out. Go to any site and post that you are gonna do a Deca only cycle and see what responces you get. If you dont know of any Ill give you a list.

Are you experiancing MPB or think that you will be in the future. If so read up on hair loss I have seen a bunch of posts helping guys out on here.

[Noob2Juice]

No I don't have problems with MPB and no one in my family has really bad hairloss i just don't want to take the chance, I mean would one cycle do it? Everyone is different and I know that but the thought of losing my hair I don't like. I can add test any time I want, would it be good to add it asap or wait til week 4? I'm only on week 1 right now.

[Ntpadude]

No I don't have problems with MPB and no one in my family has really bad hairloss i just don't want to take the chance, I mean would one cycle do it? Everyone is different and I know that but the thought of losing my hair I don't like. I can add test any time I want, would it be good to add it asap or wait til week 4? I'm only on week 1 right now.

I do have MPB in my family. My dad lost all the top hair on his head by the time he was 25 yrs. I am now 38 and havent lost a single thread. I was concerned maybe I had a low testosterone issue and that a test cycle could trigger me to follow dad's foot prints but it never happened. I can do as much as I want as long as I want and no loss of hair at all. Before test I grew practically no chest hair, that has changed. I have to buzz it off now because my wife likes smooth chest skin guys and doesnt like the chest hair.

BTW, If I were you, I'd get the test immediately, run it from the get go and plan to run the testosterone LONGER then the deca. SOme people advocate running only 1 or 2 weeks longer then the deca. Myself I will never do deca unless I run the test about 4 to 5 weeks longer then the deca. This is primarly to allow the test to burn off some of the deca fat gain.

[50%Natural]

Why dogg something that naturally occurs in your body in the first place? Last time I checked, deca durbolin aka durabolin aka nandrolone deconate did not naturally occur within the body. I mean, synthetic hormones will get you somewhere, but why not just add to what is already there? Your point is ill thought out and your name suits you well. Understand homeostasis and androgens v anabolics in the blood and maybe you'll figure it all out and have that imaginary light bulb above your head click on...

[Anhydro78]

I would add some test prop asap. Or stop this cycle do your PCT and wash your hands. see you are still in the time frame that you still havnt completely hindered your HTPA. And it doesnt seem to be all that bad. Just wait till you dont have any androgens left.

If you do not think that you are gonna suffer from male pattern baldness I would not worry about it. Its not gonna fall out all at once or even effect long term. I have a freind that is going bald and I have been watching him cycle for about five years and he still has hair. Increased DHT just accelerates it to thin out.

I didnt even catch this when I posted before but the Deca cycle you have cut&pasted up above is so old shcool mentality. Thats the way they use to cycle back in the 80's. What I mean is pyrimiding the dose like it dose above. Nobody does that anymore.

Old info that has been proven wrong!!!! Good luck guy!!!

[Paingain]

Look man, I was running test at 500mg a week, and deca at 600. My dick turned dead as a doornail by the 5th or 6th week, AND I HAD TEST!! I know that this amount of deca was probably a little too much, but my point is I had test and I got deca dick. So I couldn't imagine running just deca alone. My first cycle ever was straight test cyp, one little 10 ml bottle at 200mg. I ran it for 8 weeks at 250mg a week and went from 203lbs to 224. I was very dedicated to sleeping and eating also. Go with the test man, I'm telling you. Oh, and about the bloating and water retention, unless your hitting 5 or 600 mg a week, it's not going to be that noticable. Your face will look fine. The bottom line with any steroid is diet. Hell, I've heard of dudes getting ripped on d-bol!!

[Anhydro78]

I dont even think you can call what I looked like when I took 500mgs bloated. I dont think I bloat very bad. I dont bloat at a gram a week when I take all my Anti-e's.But I have put a couple other people on a test cycle of 500mgs and they dont and didnt look bloated. just pumped up. Ive only seen rediculous looking sh!t a couple times and that wasnt even in my gym.

[Noob2Juice]

I'm not cycyling like that i just wanted to show that there are sites that show Deca only cycles. The one I have is laid out like this

wk 1-10
Deca 300mg/week

Followed by PCT 3 weeks after last shot

The more I think about it, I'm about to add some test e, i guess I just thought since my body is not use to gear that it would be bad to start with two things, but from the novice cycles i've seen posted, it's sounds ok, what are your thoughts if i add 500mg/week of test e?

[MS421]

Why not just run test and use liquidex to decrease bloat? Test is the base for almost all cycles, so running it alone for your 1st cycle is key just for the fact that you'll know how your body reacts to it. That way when you add more compounds in future cycles you'll know what is or isnt working for you. Also a lot of these sites have outdated information, it wasnt that long ago when AR had similar novice cycles posted, they just updated theirs before the others.

[Ntpadude]

I'm not cycyling like that i just wanted to show that there are sites that show Deca only cycles. The one I have is laid out like this

wk 1-10
Deca 300mg/week

Followed by PCT 3 weeks after last shot

The more I think about it, I'm about to add some test e, i guess I just thought since my body is not use to gear that it would be bad to start with two things, but from the novice cycles i've seen posted, it's sounds ok, what are your thoughts if i add 500mg/week of test e?

None of our body's were used to gear when we did it first time. Let me tell you, once you do testosterone, it will be your favorite. It makes you feel great, strong like superman... you'll be lifting 50% heavier weights then other's in your weight class in no time. I've noticed lately I gather a few skinny guys around at the gym and they are just flabbergasted that I am now maxing out some machines, like the ab flexer, I am now lifting every single weight on the machine on my tummy muscles, nearly maxed on the leg/quad machines and some others and these guys cannot believe someone of my size (around 187 lbs) can lift so much and not even grunt or strain. It wasnt that long ago when I was one of those skinny guys, what a change to be referred to as "big guy", its done a lot for my ego. On the other hand, I dont really think my chest as exploded that much but this IGF-1 I am just now doing is also burning off BF like nothing else ever before.

Actually that first time shock which may include doing both test and deca will shock your system but expect shirts to get real tight in the shoulders on ya. Pants, well dont necesssarily have to get bigger belt but your thighs will fill out your pants better. You can get some really big gains with deca and test. Strong, joints feel good, you will generally feel good except for slight morning after soreness in the injection area. BTW, its practically unheard of for people to have alergic or other serious reactions to test en and/or deca so go ahead and give it a shot.

[Billy_Bathgate]

So what's the deal???? Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds to me like anyone who has any of the known side effects with Deca is prolly taking WAAAAYY to much of it without adding any test at all. My point is that for medical purposes, some patients are given 200mg a week by itself, is another 100 going to make a difference??

There have been studies posted before showing that 100mg of nandralone alone will shut your bodies natural testosterone production down completely.

Not only that , but if you've ever checked out other websites with sample cycles, alot of them will show a Deca only cycle for beginngers

unfortunately, there is tons of outdated information on the web. deca only cycles used to be common, till people realised what was going on and there are much better ways of doing things

i just don't want to take the chance, I mean would one cycle do it?

you realise, if your genetically disposed to go bald, your going to cycle or not right? if your worried about it, take some finasteride and forget about it. you do realise that many people lose hair with deca though right, and unlike testosterone there isnt a way to block it (dehydronandrolone)


Deca doesnt have any sides less than testosterone. Your still going to bloat, you can still get gyno (progesterone is an estrogen agonist, direct stimulation)...plus with deca, have fun having progestins with a very high infinity bound to your AR...if you dont know what that means..I guess youll find out.

In all seriousness, I dont know where you have been researching for 3 years, but I would find better places. Want to do Deca alone, hey go for it. Maybe youlll be one of the lucky few that can get by ok on it...guess youll find out.

[Anhydro78]

If you are gonna add test in right away and you can get ahold of test propoinate. That is what I would use since you have been on deca for a couple weeks allready, you need to get some test in you asap.

[PT]

im shooting 1500mgs of test-e now and i have no bloat and am losing no hair. if you are smart and read up there are ways to prevent these from ever happening.