question on my cycle

**gio86** · 08-12-2004, 11:15 AM

its going to be a preatty short cycle. its going to have organon sustanon at 500mg a week monday wednesday and friday injecting it. thats the first 6 weeks then ill be taking winni tabs for the next two weeks so it hits straight to the pct.
does this cycle sound preaty good for a firt time?
and i want to know if i really should worry about hair loss doing 500 a week of sust. i'll be on nolvadex the whole time but i know that dosnt have to do with it.

thanx

**gio86** · 08-12-2004, 11:19 AM

anyone just pm me please and let me now. i gtg freekin huricane here in Fl its going to hit and i gotta turn of the comp.
please pm anyone just to let me know what you think of my cycle
remeber
wee 1-6 500 of sust eod
week 7-8 winni tabs
and week 9 and more clomid pct starts.

tell me what you guys think thanx

***asymmetrical1*** · 08-12-2004, 11:19 AM

sus not good for a first imo....but if your gonna do it, do it right....get enough to run for 10 weeks.....as fair as hair do you already have a problem? if so get some finestride or some of the oc washes on the market

**Diesel** · 08-12-2004, 11:32 AM

6 weeks of Sust will be like having sex and not finishing......

Run it 10 weeks and you will be much happier.

D

**Diesel** · 08-12-2004, 11:32 AM

BTW, dump the two weeks worth of winny.

D

**lukeduke01** · 08-12-2004, 11:41 AM

I definately agree with these guys. If you go sust, get enough for at least 8 weeks, preferably 10-12 and inject eod and just run it by itselft since it'll be your first cycle. Scrap the winny and save it for a cutting cycle, plus 2 weeks of winny is a waste IMO. Winny is best with Prop and EQ from my experience while cutting. Get some nolvadex and clomid BEFORE you start if you havent got it already. If youre worried about hairloss, then look into finasteride

**gio86** · 08-12-2004, 11:45 AM

thanx alot....well i've been washing my hair with sensul blue i heard its suppose to be good
but is there anything othere than finastrade and propecia that i can buy in a stor?

**Sigmund Froid** · 08-12-2004, 11:45 AM

In your first post, you said 500mg per week. In your second post, you said 500mg EOD (Every Other Day), which would be 3500mg every two weeks. I assume you meant 500mg per week.

Six weeks of sustanon would be like 10 weeks of prop, on account of the long esters. However, since the dose is only 500mg per week, that is really not saying much since it is very little released over too long. I don't understand how you would inject sustanon three times a week and come up with less than 750mg. You should be able to inject 1 amp twice a week for a total of 500mg. Or better yet, 2 amps in one syringe, once per week for 500mg. A single injection makes more sense, since the blend of esters (different time release properties unique to sustanon/omnadren /etc.) will allow the drug to be released gradually.

The The length of the winstrol , however, is unacceptably short and should be at least doubled, or not included.

We are happy to help, but you did not even follow through with giving us any indication of a dosage on the winstrol - which is, kind of, a BIG DEAL when asking for advise on a cycle. Are you taking 1000000mg per day, or 10mg per day for two weeks?

**gio86** · 08-12-2004, 11:50 AM

?????

**gio86** · 08-12-2004, 11:55 AM

sigmund..... yes i ment 500 a week eod. thats what everyone heres has told me "if you do sust inject eod" ofcourse i rather do it once a week with and injection of 2 amps 500mg a shot... so what should i do???

**gio86** · 08-12-2004, 11:57 AM

and about the winni...they are some tabs i saw from sdi-labs..and they come 60 so i was thinking doing 2 tabs per day for 2 week.

**lukeduke01** · 08-12-2004, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by lukeduke01

I definately agree with these guys. If you go sust, get enough for at least 8 weeks, preferably 10-12 and inject eod and just run it by itselft since it'll be your first cycle. Scrap the winny and save it for a cutting cycle, plus 2 weeks of winny is a waste IMO. Winny is best with Prop and EQ from my experience while cutting. Get some nolvadex and clomid BEFORE you start if you havent got it already. If youre worried about hairloss, then look into finasteride

**gio86** · 08-12-2004, 12:05 PM

the winni its suppos to be 360mg a capsul

**Sigmund Froid** · 08-12-2004, 12:06 PM

Every Other Day, would mean one amp on(Sunday/Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday/Monday/Wednesday/Friday: REPEAT). Whoever told you to inject Sustanon every other day misunderstands the whole point of all the money and research that went into designing this product.
As soon as the propionate and phenylpropionate esters release the testosterone , the isocaproate and decanoate take over for a steady, continual release. When injecting propionate, you need EOD, because release stops quickly.

Here is my suggestion:
Weeks 1-10 500mg per week of sustanon (1 injection of 2cc which is 2 amps)
Weeks 6-10 50mg of winstrol everyday (Seperated into AT LEAST two doses if possible) Personally, I would run the winstrol longer...
Start PCT 2 weeks after your last injection since decanoate (the longest acting ester has a halflife of 15 days and will trickle down from there). Better to start earlier than later.

That cycle will be worth your money. I could recommend a better one, but you will gain from that and probably be happy. What are you looking for? How much are you trying to gain?

**gio86** · 08-12-2004, 12:06 PM

luked...lets say im getting more sust. and im goint to inject eod...how can i pull injecting 500 a week. if im going to inject 3 times a week and not going over 750???

**Sigmund Froid** · 08-12-2004, 12:08 PM

Exactly.

**gio86** · 08-12-2004, 12:10 PM

well here are my stats....im always trying to go for that lean hard look. so i want to gain quality muscle. you know not puffy.
im 160-165 and i have a bf less than 9% im 5'9 also.
i preaty much just want to gain some pure muslcle.
my diet is always very very clean and during the cycle ill be really clean just more calories from the same food im eating.

**gio86** · 08-12-2004, 12:11 PM

by the way thanx alot sigmund..

**gio86** · 08-12-2004, 12:26 PM

anyone..

**Sigmund Froid** · 08-12-2004, 12:29 PM

Diet:
Make sure your protein intake is very high. Natural bodybuilders can use up to 1g per lb of body weight. This means that when you juice, you are only cheating yourself by not eating more than 1g per lb of bodyweight. Try 2g/lb.

I don't know what you have access to, but this is my recommendation. Try to come as close as possible to this.

500mg of any testosterone once per week
500mg of trenbolone per week
50mg of winstrol everyday for the last 4 weeks.
Arimidex throughout the cycle
Clenbuterol For the last 20 days (cycleon has a great post on this, if I remember correctly)
Aggressive PCT (This has been beaten to death, so research)

My logic:

Testosterone + Arimidex prevents the conversion of testosterone into estrogen. Your gains will look smaller because there is less water bloat, but you will gain some quality muscle from a powerful steroid - testosterone.

Trenbolone is an excellent steroid. Period. It can be justified for mass or cutting cycles. It increases vascularity, is suspected of having some action on thyroid levels, and binds better to the AR better than testosterone, and is suspected to even bind to the GR. A powerful chemical. It does not aromatize into estrogen.

Winstrol has some mechanisms of action that resemble trenbolone, but it has been shown to cause abdominal fat loss in men, according to some studies. I also believe that as you gain muscle, and your bodyweight increases, it is a good idea to adjust the quantity of steroids to stay consistent with mg per pound of body weight. The AR will upregulate anyway, making the steroids more effective, but I believe it helps even further to increase to reach the new quota established by more AR.

The clenbuterol will keep you lean, help burn more fat, is only effective for a few weeks, and will contribute to the lean muscular look you are going for.

These are loose guidelines. Some will disagree with tren on a first cycle. I disagree. It all depends on how conservative you are. I would recommend this cycle to almost anyone. Personally, I think this cycle IS conservative.

-SF

**lukeduke01** · 08-12-2004, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by gio86

luked...lets say im getting more sust. and im goint to inject eod...how can i pull injecting 500 a week. if im going to inject 3 times a week and not going over 750???

Well, Im not going to pretend that what I say is scripture cause I dont know everything. But you can pull of injecting 500mg/week of sust by transferring it into a sterile vial and drawing from there. I missread and assumed that you had some UG sust that comes in bottles. As for injecting sust eod, sigmund is right, once the short acting tests are "done" the longer acting ones take over. But if you only inject once a week, then blood levels will fluctuate a lot, which will increase sides and decrease gains. So if you inject eod, you ALWAYS have the benefit of the short acting esters and the long ones, keeping blood levels stable which leads to better gains and less sides. A lot of people might disagree, but I have done both eod and once a week injections of Omna and preferred the eod.

**lukeduke01** · 08-12-2004, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Sigmund Froid

Diet:
Make sure your protein intake is very high. Natural bodybuilders can use up to 1g per lb of body weight. This means that when you juice, you are only cheating yourself by not eating more than 1g per lb of bodyweight. Try 2g/lb.

I don't know what you have access to, but this is my recommendation. Try to come as close as possible to this.

500mg of any testosterone once per week
500mg of trenbolone per week
50mg of winstrol everyday for the last 4 weeks.
Arimidex throughout the cycle
Clenbuterol For the last 20 days (cycleon has a great post on this, if I remember correctly)
Aggressive PCT (This has been beaten to death, so research)

My logic:

Testosterone + Arimidex prevents the conversion of testosterone into estrogen. Your gains will look smaller because there is less water bloat, but you will gain some quality muscle from a powerful steroid - testosterone.

Trenbolone is an excellent steroid. Period. It can be justified for mass or cutting cycles. It increases vascularity, is suspected of having some action on thyroid levels, and binds better to the AR better than testosterone, and is suspected to even bind to the GR. A powerful chemical. It does not aromatize into estrogen.

Winstrol has some mechanisms of action that resemble trenbolone, but it has been shown to cause abdominal fat loss in men, according to some studies. I also believe that as you gain muscle, and your bodyweight increases, it is a good idea to adjust the quantity of steroids to stay consistent with mg per pound of body weight. The AR will upregulate anyway, making the steroids more effective, but I believe it helps even further to increase to reach the new quota established by more AR.

The clenbuterol will keep you lean, help burn more fat, is only effective for a few weeks, and will contribute to the lean muscular look you are going for.

These are loose guidelines. Some will disagree with tren on a first cycle. I disagree. It all depends on how conservative you are. I would recommend this cycle to almost anyone. Personally, I think this cycle IS conservative.

-SF

Sigmund, If he is going for the lean, hard look, the test he uses should be Prop. And for a first cylce im going to have to respectfully disagree with the Tren, and I would stretch out the winny to 6 weeks 50mg/ed at the end of the cycle.

***asymmetrical1*** · 08-12-2004, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by lukeduke01

Well, Im not going to pretend that what I say is scripture cause I dont know everything. But you can pull of injecting 500mg/week of sust by transferring it into a sterile vial and drawing from there. I missread and assumed that you had some UG sust that comes in bottles. As for injecting sust eod, sigmund is right, once the short acting tests are "done" the longer acting ones take over. But if you only inject once a week, then blood levels will fluctuate a lot, which will increase sides and decrease gains. So if you inject once a week, you ALWAYS have the benefit of the short acting esters and the long ones, keeping blood levels stable which leads to better gains and less sides. A lot of people might disagree, but I have done both eod and once a week injections of Omna and preferred the eod.

right on here.....blood levels being stable is the key....easiest way to do is amp eod

***asymmetrical1*** · 08-12-2004, 01:33 PM

and sus and tren do not need to be recommended for a first cycle....

**Hollywood Harv** · 08-12-2004, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Sigmund Froid

Diet:
Make sure your protein intake is very high. Natural bodybuilders can use up to 1g per lb of body weight. This means that when you juice, you are only cheating yourself by not eating more than 1g per lb of bodyweight. Try 2g/lb.

I don't know what you have access to, but this is my recommendation. Try to come as close as possible to this.

500mg of any testosterone once per week
500mg of trenbolone per week
50mg of winstrol everyday for the last 4 weeks.
Arimidex throughout the cycle
Clenbuterol For the last 20 days (cycleon has a great post on this, if I remember correctly)
Aggressive PCT (This has been beaten to death, so research)

My logic:

Testosterone + Arimidex prevents the conversion of testosterone into estrogen. Your gains will look smaller because there is less water bloat, but you will gain some quality muscle from a powerful steroid - testosterone.

Trenbolone is an excellent steroid. Period. It can be justified for mass or cutting cycles. It increases vascularity, is suspected of having some action on thyroid levels, and binds better to the AR better than testosterone, and is suspected to even bind to the GR. A powerful chemical. It does not aromatize into estrogen.

Winstrol has some mechanisms of action that resemble trenbolone, but it has been shown to cause abdominal fat loss in men, according to some studies. I also believe that as you gain muscle, and your bodyweight increases, it is a good idea to adjust the quantity of steroids to stay consistent with mg per pound of body weight. The AR will upregulate anyway, making the steroids more effective, but I believe it helps even further to increase to reach the new quota established by more AR.

The clenbuterol will keep you lean, help burn more fat, is only effective for a few weeks, and will contribute to the lean muscular look you are going for.

These are loose guidelines. Some will disagree with tren on a first cycle. I disagree. It all depends on how conservative you are. I would recommend this cycle to almost anyone. Personally, I think this cycle IS conservative.

-SF

So like 500mg of Tren a week is cool?? I'm not questioning you one bit bro....jus thought that even if you do half that much its cool...Also is it ok for this guy to do his PCT and winni at the same time....I know Winni doesn't shut down the hypo-pit pathway but jus wanted to confirm.

***asymmetrical1*** · 08-12-2004, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Hollywood Harv

So like 500mg of Tren a week is cool?? I'm not questioning you one bit bro....jus thought that even if you do half that much its cool...Also is it ok for this guy to do his PCT and winni at the same time....I know Winni doesn't shut down the hypo-pit pathway but jus wanted to confirm.

for a second or third, 75mg/ed tren a good run....and no, win should not be taken with pct

**Sigmund Froid** · 08-12-2004, 09:08 PM

Some people say that "propionate is for cutting" or things of that nature. Here is Sigmund Froid's lesson on testosterone and esters.

1. An ester is a time release mechanism that essential gets "broken off" of a testosterone molecule.
2. Some esters break off quickly, others take more time.
3. Once the testosterone is released (quickly or slowly) it functions as an ordinary testosterone molecule.

Conclusion: Testosterone is testosterone. Consider this: If someone made a time-bomb, it wouldn't matter if they set the timer for 5 minutes or 10 minutes. TNT is TNT.

**Sigmund Froid** · 08-12-2004, 09:15 PM

lukeduke, I agree that the winny should be run longer. I would go as long as 6-8 weeks, personally. 4 weeks is the least amount of time I would recommend. Shutting down the Hypothylmic Pituatary Testicular Axis is not really a big deal. In fact, that system is so sensitive that even 100mg of a steroid administered for one or two weeks causes suppression (I can back that up scientifically). You take your clomid, and get on with it. Hopefully, the cycle was so serious that you can afford to lose some mass coming off.

You could do have the tren I suggested and see results, but I wouldn't think of doing less than 500mg. I did 150mg EOD of fina during my first cycle and had excellent gains. Don't do PCT until the testosterone and tren are out of your system, which will be a couple weeks after you stop your winny (depending on the halflife of the test you use).

Once again, it doesn't matter what test you use. Adjust injection frequency according to the halflife...

**lukeduke01** · 08-12-2004, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by Sigmund Froid

Some people say that "propionate is for cutting" or things of that nature. Here is Sigmund Froid's lesson on testosterone and esters.

1. An ester is a time release mechanism that essential gets "broken off" of a testosterone molecule.
2. Some esters break off quickly, others take more time.
3. Once the testosterone is released (quickly or slowly) it functions as an ordinary testosterone molecule.

Conclusion: Testosterone is testosterone. Consider this: If someone made a time-bomb, it wouldn't matter if they set the timer for 5 minutes or 10 minutes. TNT is TNT.

Testosterone is Testosterone, but prop isn't cyp/enan etc. Prop is used for cutting because you dont have all of the water retention that goes along with the effects of the ESTERs enan/cyp.

**Hollywood Harv** · 08-13-2004, 12:24 AM

Hmm i could be wrong...but I think the ester stays within the lipophillic tissue, and it is only the testostrone that makes into your blood and evtually binds to the receptor. So i don't think the type ester makes a diff in regards to actually cutting, it deals with release times into the blood. And so with slower steady release with test E, I would assume the likelyhood of aromatization is greater then that with Prop. Thats how I have come to understand it. Feel free to enlighten me if I'm wrong.

**lukeduke01** · 08-13-2004, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by Hollywood Harv

Hmm i could be wrong...but I think the ester stays within the lipophillic tissue, and it is only the testostrone that makes into your blood and evtually binds to the receptor. So i don't think the type ester makes a diff in regards to actually cutting, it deals with release times into the blood. And so with slower steady release with test E, I would assume the likelyhood of aromatization is greater then that with Prop. Thats how I have come to understand it. Feel free to enlighten me if I'm wrong.

When you say "I dont think the type of ester makes every difference..." I will disagree. Now when you say"it deals with the time release" I will agree. It is the quick time release of prop. that gives it the advantage in cutting. There isnt a slow release as in enan/cyp...that in turn can lead to greater water retention. So the ester makes every difference. So I guess the reverse would be true then for bulking in your opinion? ex. Prop would be just as good as a bulker as enan/cyp???