Nolva or Clomid?

**dieseL atC** · 08-20-2004, 08:19 PM

It seems that there is alot of confusion about Clomid and Nolvadex when it comes to PCT and restoring HTPA. I have read articles defending both, I think it's about time we settle this dispute and get rid of all the confusion. I'm looking for some solid facts on which is the superior choice for restoring natural test production. Let the debates begin....

**paperboy** · 08-20-2004, 08:28 PM

usually people use nolva during the cycle and clomid PCT, but I'm not sure why-thatd be a good ?..

**dieseL atC** · 08-20-2004, 08:31 PM

Sorry bro, but Nolva is used during both and that's not what this post is about. I'm asking for facts on which is more effective at restoring HTPA.

**dumblucky** · 08-20-2004, 08:35 PM

I thought I was trying to get these aswers in my post ??whatever... we can do it on this one if youi like

**TheMudMan** · 08-20-2004, 08:52 PM

I did a quick search and came up with this post by Pheedno on the same subject you asked and has been asked and answered a million times.

Posted by Pheedno:
Both, with the addition of L-dex. Clomid is selective to the suprapituitary, making it the primary LH stimulator. Nolva works as the secondary LH stimulator. Nolva is selective to the breast, bone, and liver and would normally work more at preventing binding in the mammery post cycle, but with the addition of L-dex, you reduce the estrogen suffeciently, thus allowing the Nolva to work more towards LH stimulation, rather than bindig prevention in the mammery

AI's such as L-dex have also been shown to increase serum testosterone and gonadotrophin concentrations

**dieseL atC** · 08-20-2004, 10:29 PM

So would Femara be a good addition to PCT?

**chances** · 08-20-2004, 11:06 PM

You could substitute Femara for the l-Dex, yes.

chance

**durkheim** · 08-21-2004, 12:02 AM

Heres a debate from BB.COM, BigCat suggests Nolva and Clomid together but maintains that nolva is more effective because it has a greater affinity to the estrogen receptors and is a better choice in terms of cost vs effectiveness.

Definitely a great read

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...threadid=21805

Heres another article, this ones by William Llewellyn

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...threadid=82706

**einstein1905** · 08-21-2004, 01:44 AM

I have no idea why this is so complicated for some.....I'm referring to the people that read and understand the studies themselves. It's very clear that clomid, on the short term (roughly pct duration) is far superior at eliciting increases in gonadotropins. there is another study that clearly shows clomid having a far greater affinity for hypothalamal ERs than nolva. Nolva, on the other hand, has a far greater affinity for breast ERs and is therefore much better for during a cycle. Nolva also is very estrogenic in bone and liver, thus greatly improving lipid profiles. Go to the pct forum and read the 1000+ threads that refute Llewellyn's article. Also, recently on EF, I made a comment about Llewellyn's article and how misleading and incorrect it was.....his response......he tried to downplay the fact that clomid does in fact increase gonadotropins much more efficiently than nolva by instead claiming the major bottleneck during pct is primary hypoganadism

(ummmmm, wasn't your article arguing how nolva was better than clomid?) If HCG is used appropriately, then the Leydig cells will be fully primed to respond to gonadotropins, so assuming that HCG is used appropriately, then we come back to nolva or clomid? Obviously, we'll choose that which most efficiently increases gonadotropins, clomid.

There is no debate. The only confusion comes when people fail to look at all the data available.

Originally Posted by durkheim

Heres a debate from BB.COM, BigCat suggests Nolva and Clomid together but maintains that nolva is more effective because it has a greater affinity to the estrogen receptors and is a better choice in terms of cost vs effectiveness.

Definitely a great read

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...threadid=21805

Heres another article, this ones by William Llewellyn

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...threadid=82706

**SportsMedVIP** · 08-23-2004, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by einstein1905

I have no idea why this is so complicated for some.....I'm referring to the people that read and understand the studies themselves. It's very clear that clomid, on the short term (roughly pct duration) is far superior at eliciting increases in gonadotropins. there is another study that clearly shows clomid having a far greater affinity for hypothalamal ERs than nolva. Nolva, on the other hand, has a far greater affinity for breast ERs and is therefore much better for during a cycle. Nolva also is very estrogenic in bone and liver, thus greatly improving lipid profiles. Go to the pct forum and read the 1000+ threads that refute Llewellyn's article. Also, recently on EF, I made a comment about Llewellyn's article and how misleading and incorrect it was.....his response......he tried to downplay the fact that clomid does in fact increase gonadotropins much more efficiently than nolva by instead claiming the major bottleneck during pct is primary hypoganadism

(ummmmm, wasn't your article arguing how nolva was better than clomid?) If HCG is used appropriately, then the Leydig cells will be fully primed to respond to gonadotropins, so assuming that HCG is used appropriately, then we come back to nolva or clomid? Obviously, we'll choose that which most efficiently increases gonadotropins, clomid.

There is no debate. The only confusion comes when people fail to look at all the data available.

Great break down. Thanks.