First cycle, can't decide (lots of reading)

[TestMe]

Ok first I think I'll start with some info about myself.

I'm 22, 151lbs. I've been working out since I was 17, more hardcore only this past year (eg. I'd hit the gym 1-2 days a week, or just work out at a friends before. This past year I'm at the gym 4-5 days a week religiously). Over the past year I've made a gain af about 30 lbs (Yes, I was a very small guy). My main motivation for starting a cycle is honestly to look better. Idealy I would like to be 175-180 solid, maybe more if humanly possible. I'm very lean btw. Bench atm is 225. In the past I've only ever used: Androstine, Ripped Fuel (the old one), Nitrix, creatine, whey isonate powders/drinks. I've also (for a period of 2 weeks) taken only Dianabol (D-Bol) at about 20-30mg a day (which did show some small growth). If you need more info ask me.

Now on to the question. First off I should mention my bro has been doing cycles on and off for about the past 3-4 years, possibly more. I know he's shown some nice results (he's currently 26, 194lbs solid, but he started out chunky, i'm starting out very lean), but I also know he's ****ed up (got gyno). Here's the cycle he's suggesting.

The cycle is 50 days.

Finaplex will be converted and injected. (mg)
Dianabol I can get in 10mg or 50mg tabs. (mg)
Nolvadex is in tabs. (per tab)
T3 is in tabs. (per tab)
Clomid is in tabs. (per tab)
B12 is in tabs. (per tab)
Winstrol is in tabs. (per tab)
Clenbuterol is in tabs. (per tab)
HCG is injected (IU)

1: 75mg finaplex, 100g protien, 400g carbs, 1 b12
2: 25mg d-bol, 125 protien, 400 carbs, 2 b12
3: 25mg d-bol, 150 protien, 450 carbs, 1/4 T3, 2 b12
4: 25mg d-bol, 1/2 nolvadex, 200 pro, 500 carbs, 1/4 T3, 1/2 clomid, 2 b12
5: 75mg fina, 25 d-bol, 200 pro, 500 carb, 2 b12
6: 30 d-bol, 1/2 nolva, 200 pro, 500 carb, 1/4 T3, 2 b12
7: 30 d-bol, 1/2 nolva, 200 pro, 500 carb, 1/4 T3, 1/2 clomid, 2 b12
8: 30 d-bol, 200 pro, 500 carb, 2 b12
9: 100 fina, 30 d-bol, 1/2 nolva, 250 pro, 500 carb, 1/2 T3, 3 b12
10: 30 d-bol, 1/2 nolva, 250 pro, 500 carb, 1/2 T3, 1/2 clomid, 3 b12
11: 40 d-bol, 1 nolva, 250 pro, 500 carb, 1/2 T3, 3 b12
12: 40 d-bol, 250 pro, 500 carb, 1/4 T3, 3 b12
13: 40 d-bol, 1 nolva, 250 pro, 500 carb, 1/4 T3, 1/2 clomid, 3 b12
14: 150 fina, 40 d-bol, 1/2 nolva, 300 pro, 500 carb, 3 b12
15: 40 d-bol, 300 pro, 500 carb, 1/4 T3, 3 b12
16: 50 d-bol, 1 nolva, 300 pro, 500 carb, 1/4 T3, 1/2 clomid, 3 b12
17: 50 d-bol, 1/2 nolva, 300 pro, 500 carb, 1/2 T3, 3 b12
18: 150 fina, 50 d-bol, 300 pro, 500 carb, 1/2 T3, 3 b12
19: 50 d-bol, 1 nolva, 300 pro, 500 carb, 1 T3, 1/2 clomid, 3 b12
20: 50 d-bol, 1/2 nolva, 300 pro, 500 carb, 1 T3, 3 b12
21: 50 d-bol, 300 pro, 600 carb, 1 T3, 3 b12
22: 150 fina, 50 d-bol, 1 nolva, 300 pro, 600 carb, 1/2 T3, 1/2 clomid, 3 b12
23: 50 d-bol, 1/2 nolva, 300 pro, 600 carb, 1/4 T3, 3 b12
24: 50 d-bol, 1/2 nolva, 300 pro, 600 carb, 1/4 T3, 1/2 clomid, 3 b12
25: 75 fina, 50 d-bol, 1/2 nolva, 300 pro, 500 carb, 1/4 T3, 1/2 clomid, 3 b12
------Transition------
26: 40 d-bol, 300 pro, 500 carb, 1/2 nolva 1/4 T3
27: 40 d-bol, 300 pro, 400 carb, 1/2 nolva, 1/4 T3
28: 75 fina, 30 d-bol, 1/2 clomid, 1/4 T3
29: 25 d-bol, 300 pro, 400 carb, 1/2 T3
30: 25 d-bol, 300 pro, 400 carb, 1 nolva, 1/2 T3
31: 10d-bol, 250pro, 400carb, 2.5winny, 1/2clom, 1nolva, 1 t3, 1/2clenbuterol
32: 35 fina, 10 d-bol, 250pro, 400carb, 2.5winny, 1/2 nolva, 1 T3, 1/2 clen
33: 250pro, 300carb, 5mg winny, 1.5 T3, 1/2 clen
34: 250pro, 300carb, 5 winny, 1 clomid, 1 nolva, 1.5 T3, 1 clen
35: 250pro, 250carb, 5 winny, 1/2 nolva, 1.5 T3, 1 clen
36: 35 fina, 250pro, 300carb, 5 winny, 1 clomid, 1/2 nolva, 2 T3, 1 clen
37: 250pro, 250carb, 5 winny, 2 T3, 1.5 clen
38: 250pro, 300carb, 5 winny, 1 clomid, 1/2 nolva, 2 T3, 1.5 clen
39: 300pro, 300carb, 10 winny, 1 nolva, 3 T3, 1.5 clen
40: 300pro, 300carb, 10 winny, 1 clomid, 1 nolva, 3 T3, 1.5 clen
41: 300pro, 200carb, 10 winny, 1 clomid, 1 nolva, 3 T3, 2 clen
42: 300pro, 100carb, 10 winny, 1 clomid, 1 nolva, 3 T3, 2 clen
43: 300pro, 50carb, 5 winny, 1 clomid, 1 nolva, 2 T3, 2 clen
44: 300pro, 50carb, 2.5 winny, 1 clomid, 2 nolva, 2 T3, 3 clen
45: 200pro, 50carb, 1 clomid, 2 nolva, 2 T3, 3 clen
46: 200pro, 50carb, 1 clomid, 2 nolva, 2 T3, 3 clen
47: 100pro, 50carb, 1 clomid, 1 nolva, 1.5 T3, 3 clen, 1,500 IU HCG
48: 100pro, 300carb, 1 clomid, 1 nolva, 1.5 T3, 2 clen, 1,500 IU HCG
49: 100pro, 300carb, 1 clomid, 2 nolva, 1 T3, 2 clen, 1,000 IU HCG
50: 200pro, 300carb, 1 clomid, 2 nolva, 1 T3, 2 clen, 500 IU HCG


Ok, now to my questions.
1. Is this an effective cycle?
2. What can I expect out of it (gains).
3. What are the negative points? (side-effects, etc.)
4. How does this compare to a 10-14 week deca/dianabol or tren/fest/deca cycle?

5. Kinda un-related, but what's the easiest way to get ahold of proper needles (22-25g/1-1.5")?


Please don't flame my question, as I am a newbie in the world of steroids. I have done my research though and was origionally going to commit to the deca/dianabol(d-bol) cycle. However, my bro took the time to write up this cycle, so i figured i'd at least check it out. Thank you all in advance.

[tycin]

ok bro 1st of all since this is ur 1st cycle u dont need all that sh!t! just go with single ester test like test e and run it for 12 weeks at 500mg/week along with 10mg nolva/ed and do a proper pct.

and 2nd of all i guarantee u can put on a lot more weight naturally 1st, with a good diet and hard training u will b able to put on at least 10-20 more lbs. then hit the juice.

[tycin]

and u definatly need more protein in that diet, check out the diet form. there r great diet plans to follow there.

best of luck bro

[TestMe]

I understand this is a very complex cycle, especially for a first time, but why would that be bad? Don't mean to sound like an idiot here, I've heard it's bad, just wanna know why.

Another thing I should add is that over the past 3 months I've shown no gain what-so-ever. Also my current diet includes protien levels higher than those listed in this cycle (I was curious about how low they were myself).

Anyway, what would be the dangers of starting off with such a rigorous cycle, and if this one is truely not for me or not good at all, what about a deca/dianabol 14 week cycle?

[tycin]

u need test in any cycle. test should always b the base! i would drop the deca and just do test e and dbol then if u want. for the dbol i would go with 40mg/ed for the 1st 4 weeks.

as for fina not good its a great steroid but not for novice users, it needs to b shot ed.

[Dimes]

Test e 500mg a week for ten weeks. and dbol 30mg a day for 4 weeks.. im on my 14 thday, have already gaines 14 punds, good luck.

[TestMe]

Thanks for all the input guys. I've done some more research, and have decided to go with 500mg Test E ew for 10 weeks, 40mg dbol ed for the first 4 weeks lowering the dosage gradually, and 10mg nolvadex ed for 14 weeks. I'll use HCG and clenbuterol end/post-cycle to prevent crashing.

Now, I don't know if I'm supposed to ask this here...but I'll give it a try (remove this question if necessary):

EDIT: I read a thread in the educational forum that said not to ask for sources here, so instead..

Guess I'll have to make that costly road trip to mexico :/.

Thanks again in advance.

[TestMe]

One other question if I may. Can I frontload on my first cycle? If so, one of my concerns is the fact that i would then be injecting 4cc of Test E on my first day.

[AandF6969]

you could try fixing your diet first and getting as far as you can naturally before you resort to drugs

whats your diet look like right now? If you cant gain weight past 151 lbs naturally there is something wrong with your diet or your training

[TestMe]

Well, keep in mind I've been at it for a few years now, and I must've been doing something right to gain 30lbs over the past year. Also note-worthy is when i was 17 I was under 115, and I'm only 5'5". I will however be continueing natrually for another 2 months at least before I begin the cycle, I'm simply gathering information and preparing.

EDIT: Sorry forgot to add this.
My current diet gives me 300-350 protien daily. Currently supplimenting whey isolate, creatine, nitrix, B12, and on and off with tribulus

[MBaraso]

You cannot ask for a source or post websites asking if they're legit on this board.
If you need to do a source check PM a mod or vet.

[Dimes]

gO WITH 30MG OD DBOL A DAY and dont lower the dosage gradually..30mg a day for four weeks.

[SMYL_GR8]

Ok, bro, I will not be one to tell you that you can definitely gain more naturally. I think only you know your body. All I will say is make sure you thoroughly understand the relationship of DIET and training on growht. A lot of bros break through their plateaus with diet adjustment only. Also, you don't need the clen or HCG. Nolva and Proviron during and Volva and Clomid PCT. Look up Pheedno's thread on PCT. Good Luck.

[TestMe]

Well, like I said, I'll be trying natural for at least 2 more months. By the way, the clen is used to block the cortisone receptors to avoid a crash (loss of strength and mass), and the HCG is used for the last week of the cycle to stimulate the Leydig's cells and if used a few days after the first HCG injection will increase the effectiveness of the clomid. The combination will quickly return the natural testosterone production, while the clen is used to maintain strength and muscle mass durint PCT, as the buildup of cortisone would otherwise cause a crash. I don't claim to know from experience, as this is my first cycle, but I've done a lot of research to make sure I do it right. If you have a better suggestion for PCT that has worked from experience, by all means let me know. Experience usually proves better than the scientific write-up. Oh also, the reason for gradually lowerin the dosage of dbol is to avoid a dbol crash, allthough I'll still be on the Test E, I don't wanna take the chance of getting 4 weeks into my cycle and screwing it all up cause I feel like ****.

[wolfyEVH]

no use in lowering the dbol dose....stay the same every day.......keep nolva on hand and ditch the HCG...not worth it bro. do the basic clomid/nolva PCT and thats it. clens anti-catabolic effects are very weak and overrated. it doesnt seem like you've done a lot of research. your first cycle was way off, didnt even have test. you're final cycle you have planned is fine, just ditch the clen and HCG....keep clen if you want, but HCG is unnecessary

[Mesomorphyl]

why don't you try to eat first... at 151 lbs you cannot be eating right or you need to see a doctor. look on the diet forum and you will see what it takes for food to be anabolic. and no need to lie about your diet being so spot on... give me a break

[Badam967]

Hey man, copy and paste this. Its the perfect cycle for a first timer. It was submitted to me by another member.
http://www.steroid.com/novicecycle1.php

[billy_ba]

from what it looks like you are planning on running a dbol, fina, winny cycle with no test? Hope you like having your di#k not work for that entire cycle.. Run just test for 10 weeks. You dont need to run **** loads of gear for your first couple of cycles because your receptors will fill up with small doses, so escentially you will be only absorbing a portion of what you would be taking. That would be a waste of money and a waste of your liver when you could get the same results from a test only cycle.

[TestMe]

Yeah I allready looked at the novice cycle, and those of you who read through these posts would realize I've decided to go with Test E/dianabol. I'm starting to get a little annoyed with those of you coming in here insulting my diet. My diet is good, it has been for quite a while. I'm not a newbie to weight training or to dietery nutrition, in fact I'm working on my certification now. Please read the questions I posted above and answer only to those, I didn't ask you to come in here and critique me. I have the information I need, and thank you to those who provided it.

Honestly, it's no wonder so many people jump into steroids and end up screwing up. If I didn't go out and research for my self, I would have ended up taking that first cycle I listed. It's surprising how few of the people who posted here actually provided pertinant information.

Also if it makes you feel better, once again (this is the 3rd time I'm posting this), I WILL be continueing natural for at least 2 more months. Also, I have seen my docter regarding the fact that I can't put on any more weight. His suggestion was simply to continue as I've been going, that I should expect my gains to be much less significant at this point. He also recomended suplimenting other protien compounds (I've been using whey isolate, because it's the most efficient), which I will do.

Regardless of weather or not I've "Reached my peak", why would I continue working natuaral with such slow gains when I can get around 2x the gains in 1/6 of the time? I'm well aware of the risks accosiated with anabolics, and these are risks I'm willing to take. I'll let you all know how it goes.

[AandF6969]

I'm starting to get a little annoyed with those of you coming in here insulting my diet. My diet is good, it has been for quite a while. I'm not a newbie to weight training or to dietery nutrition, in fact I'm working on my certification now.

Could you post up your daily diet for us with macronutrients and total calories? If we dont need to critique it then we can all learn from it