Couple graphs showing how frontloading works...

**johnsomebody** · 11-28-2004, 11:48 AM

I'm frontloading enanthate and thought I'd put up a couple graphs I generated from "roidcalc" showing what a big difference frontloading can make in reaching maintenance levels. Note how much longer it takes to get up to "maintenance" level without frontloading.

http://www.come.to/roidcalc

**KINGKONG** · 11-28-2004, 11:51 AM

good post

**johnsomebody** · 11-29-2004, 01:05 PM

Bump for more comments...

**Big Gulps, Huh?** · 11-29-2004, 01:20 PM

Maybe i'm just reading the graph wrong, but it says that you are injecting 1000mg each day for the first five days. Does that just seem like a rediculous amount to anyone else? I also don't agree with some of the half lives he has if you go to his webpage. Just my .02

***50%Natural*** · 11-29-2004, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Big Gulps, Huh?

Maybe i'm just reading the graph wrong, but it says that you are injecting 1000mg each day for the first five days. Does that just seem like a rediculous amount to anyone else? I also don't agree with some of the half lives he has if you go to his webpage. Just my .02

I don't think it matters on the amount, it just shows that with (x) dosage, you get to stable levels (y) sooner. However, I'm curious if sides would be worse with the huge jump in hormone levels....

**detroit** · 11-29-2004, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by 50%Natural

I don't think it matters on the amount, it just shows that with (x) dosage, you get to stable levels (y) sooner. However, I'm curious if sides would be worse with the huge jump in hormone levels....

Or the sides may be less since they level out sooner. I get worse sides when coming off of long esters, than i do coming off short esters. At least as far as zits go...

**fitnessNY** · 11-29-2004, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by detroit

Or the sides may be less since they level out sooner. I get worse sides when coming off of long esters, than i do coming off short esters. At least as far as zits go...

end your cycle with a short ester. I ended my eth a few days ago and I will be on prop for 2 more weeks to end the cycle.

**flabbywussy** · 11-29-2004, 03:58 PM

i'm confused. is that injecting enanthate every other day in the first graph?

**powerlifter** · 11-29-2004, 04:35 PM

The graph is showing 1000mg a day - the sides would be unbeliveable

7 grams of test a week ? Not for me - your body only has so many receptors

Swellin · 11-29-2004, 04:39 PM

Wow JS, I thought you were through with this stuff. Looks like you are back in business. Cool graph bro. I don't know what to make of it just yet, but it is still cool.

Good to see ya again bro!

**Jackman** · 11-29-2004, 06:04 PM

is it me or does the graph say hes injection 1000mg eod and the blood levels only go to 505 mg? whare did the other half the gear go.

**johnsomebody** · 12-03-2004, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by powerlifter

The graph is showing 1000mg a day - the sides would be unbeliveable

7 grams of test a week ? Not for me - your body only has so many receptors

No that's 1000 mg of test enanthate , which as far as the graph is concerned is 250mg/ml of test. I'm doing Cypionate at 200mg/ml, so my total for the first week is 1.1 grams of test, and it averages to 700mg per week thereafter.

The purpose of the graph is to show that frontloading can help get a cycle to speed much faster, just by about doubling the dose the first week.

The variation up and down is considerably less that one would get with Prop ed over a 24 hour period.

**kubano28** · 12-03-2004, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by johnsomebody

No that's 1000 mg of test enanthate , which as far as the graph is concerned is 250mg/ml of test. I'm doing Cypionate at 200mg/ml, so my total for the first week is 1.1 grams of test, and it averages to 700mg per week thereafter.

The purpose of the graph is to show that frontloading can help get a cycle to speed much faster, just by about doubling the dose the first week.

The variation up and down is considerably less that one would get with Prop ed over a 24 hour period.

so there is no need to frontload on a test cycle if u use for example:
weeks (1 and 2) 100 mg (test pro) eod
weeks (1 -12) 400 mg (test e or cyp) ew
weeks (12-14) 100 mg (test pro) eod
by using the test prop for the first two weeks in conjuction with test e or c,there is no need to fronload with test e or c for the first week,will this make sense????????

**johnsomebody** · 12-03-2004, 11:50 PM

Sure lots of people start and end Test cycles with Prop. I plan to end this myself that way. It's better at the end, IMO, since you can't avoid the two week wait anyway for the enanthate to clear.

**meat** · 12-04-2004, 06:02 AM

i wouldnt follow that ,thats inacurate

**johnsomebody** · 12-04-2004, 05:04 PM

What's inaccurate?

**meat** · 12-04-2004, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by Jackman

is it me or does the graph say hes injection 1000mg eod and the blood levels only go to 505 mg? whare did the other half the gear go.

like jackman said those doses seem a bit high ,compaired to the blood levels ,XXL has a good post on frontloading which IMO makes more sense just my two cents

**johnsomebody** · 12-09-2004, 09:43 AM

Am I the only one on this site capable of grasping basic mathematic concepts?

The dosage is completely irrelevant - the graph just shows that nearly doubling the dose the first week brings blood levels up to their maximum longterm level almost three weeks sooner than using a steady dose.

**d.b** · 12-09-2004, 09:54 AM

But if you have Prop why waste the E test... your body can only process so much hormone...IMHO I think every cycle should be started and ended with fast acting compounds...thus ending the need for PCT...

peace

db

**righton** · 12-09-2004, 10:23 AM

It's a good graph but..if you use a fast acting ester (prop) EOD for the first 2-3 weeks and half the long esters you will have approx the same or close to amount in the blood and use half as much cyp/enan.

***50%Natural*** · 12-09-2004, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by johnsomebody

Am I the only one on this site capable of grasping basic mathematic concepts?

The dosage is completely irrelevant - the graph just shows that nearly doubling the dose the first week brings blood levels up to their maximum longterm level almost three weeks sooner than using a steady dose.

nah, i got me a college edumacation, so i followed it

**The Baron** · 12-09-2004, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by d.b

But if you have Prop why waste the E test... your body can only process so much hormone...IMHO I think every cycle should be started and ended with fast acting compounds...thus ending the need for PCT...

peace

db

You wouldn't be wasting the E at all. The prop in the beginning is just getting more test into action sooner, while the E is still building up and slowly releasing. The HPTA is being depressed probably within 2-3 days of the first enanthate injection anyway, so may as well get the benefit from having exogenous test in your body.

I agree on starting and stopping with fast acting stuff if possible. But you would not eliminate the need for pct. All you would be doing is preventing a long period where you are not anabolic enough to make or even keep gains but still have too much gear in your body to begin pct. The short acting stuff gives you a quicker crash, gets it over with, so you can start pct after being depleted for only a couple of days. It is kinda splitting hairs, though. Plenty of success stories out there where the user did not use any short acting compounds at all.