First Cycle...a few different options...PLEASE HELP

**jlardinois** · 12-05-2004, 10:31 PM

Hey all, I'm 21 and have been lifting hardcore for the past 5 years. I have done various PH cycles previously with great success but feel my natural highs have been reached. I am 5'11", 195ish, and around 10-12% bf.

I want to harden up and get shredded while gaining maybe 10-20 lbs of lbm--cleanest mass possible. I have been doing a lot of research and have a few AS that I want to throw around.

I know my dosages that I will use, but I'm still not sure of what I want to use. Here's what I have so far...

Test Prop, Winny, EQ, Tren ...I don't necessarily need all of them, but whatever would work the best. I was thinking of prop, winny, and tren for 14 weeks. Would Tren or EQ be better thrown in with what I have at the bottom? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

1-14 Test Prop (75 mg/ed)
9-14 Winny (50 mg/ed)

Check my pic..I'm a bit bigger since then.

**Money Boss Hustla** · 12-05-2004, 10:46 PM

No need to go over board. Why not just do a test only cycle? You need to establish a baseline for results before throwing in multiple AS. How will you know what works the best for you when you're using everything at once? Go slow my friend. It's not a race. Just my .02

**dive_kid** · 12-05-2004, 10:47 PM

for a first cycle I would say just use the prop and winni.
prop is great for less water and winny will help harden you up. no need for the tren and eq yet

**ChefJ** · 12-05-2004, 10:51 PM

I wouldn't use prop in a first cycle for one reason and most will agree. It is very difficult to maintain ed injections even for those of us who have a few cycles under our belts. It just plain sucks everyone says they love to inject and it feels good and I agree it is nice to know anabolics are going into your system, but 4-5 weeks in and you are getting scar tissue build up from the 30+ injections you have already put in that it gets hard.

**jlardinois** · 12-05-2004, 10:57 PM

Alright...If I went with Just the Winny and switched to Test Eth or Cyp, how would that look? I appreciate the comments so far. I'd like to drop down from my current bf % to around 7-8%...possible? Thanks!

**dive_kid** · 12-05-2004, 11:04 PM

ed injects arent that bad, just keep your eye on the prize, stay on track and hiter hard

**jlardinois** · 12-05-2004, 11:30 PM

I have a couple combos...tell me which you think would serve me best.

Sust/Winny
Test E/Winny
Test Cyp/Winny

Appreciate it!

**jlardinois** · 12-05-2004, 11:30 PM

Also, would it hinder or greatly help if I added Dbol for the first four weeks to kickstart things?

**dive_kid** · 12-05-2004, 11:32 PM

depends on how much you want to inject
sust is great but eod inject.
cyp and e will hold a bit more water but only 2x/week inject
nolva can help keep the bloat down.
and adding d-bol is fine

**Iowa** · 12-05-2004, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by jlardinois

Also, would it hinder or greatly help if I added Dbol for the first four weeks to kickstart things?

If youre using prop, then IMO, you dont need dbol . If youre using a longer ester like enan or cyp then it would be fine, but I would leave it out if its your first cycle. For a first cycle here is what I would do...

My first choice would be
Weeks 1-12 250mg Monday 250mg Thursday of Test E
Weeks 1-12 10mg nolvadex everyday
during PCT 20mg nolvadex everyday
look up pheednos PCT.

Second choice would be to throw in some dbol with the above cycle for the first 4 weeks at 30mg/day

Third choice would be
Change the test enan in Weeks 1-12 to 75mg/ed Prop and leave out the dbol.

JMO

**jlardinois** · 12-05-2004, 11:53 PM

Thanks for all the help again...I'm gettin it narrowed down. My goal is to turn from what I am in my pic (5'11", 195ish, approx. 11% bf to around 8% or so). These two pics are my ideal body composition...I'd like to be around 210 or so with 8% bf.

**jlardinois** · 12-06-2004, 07:52 AM

bump

**Money Boss Hustla** · 12-06-2004, 11:46 AM

Test prop alone will give awesome results. Why not do it?

**jlardinois** · 12-06-2004, 07:58 PM

Hey all, after consideration I've modified it to this:

1-13 Test E 500 mg/wk
1-12 EQ 400 mg/wk
11-15 Winny 50 mg/ed

...then PCT afterwards obviously.

I have some Clen that I will taper for 2 weeks at the end and it should cut me up pretty nicely while hardening up and adding some quality lean mass.

Any thoughts---peace

**jlardinois** · 12-06-2004, 08:59 PM

Comments?

**big_guy** · 12-06-2004, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by jlardinois

Hey all, after consideration I've modified it to this:

1-13 Test E 500 mg/wk
1-12 EQ 400 mg/wk
11-15 Winny 50 mg/ed

...then PCT afterwards obviously.

I have some Clen that I will taper for 2 weeks at the end and it should cut me up pretty nicely while hardening up and adding some quality lean mass.

Any thoughts---peace

looks good....

**Iowa** · 12-06-2004, 10:21 PM

looks pretty good, but I would at least add some nolva and possibly some femara too. That should keep you from looking all bloated, but your cycle looks sound.

**jlardinois** · 12-06-2004, 10:27 PM

Thanks all for helping mold my first cycle and venture to the darkside. I'm gettin excited, and I just need to wait to hear from my source...hopefully he emails soon.

The only reason I didn't mention the Nolva is that I take that for granted and was definitely planning on using it.

**jlardinois** · 12-06-2004, 10:28 PM

I'm just hoping he didn't get in trouble or anything cuz usually he emails within a day otherwise I could have probs.

**Jackman** · 12-06-2004, 10:31 PM

it is very hard to gain 5ilb while shreading never mind 10-20! unreal goes bro.

**jlardinois** · 12-06-2004, 10:58 PM

Thanks Jackman...I'll clarify my goal. I want to harden up and get shredded...but if I did gain anything, I'd want it to be as lean as possible. The 10-20 was mis-stated on my part-sorry.