great cycle: plz take a look & help

**bigman96** · 12-29-2004, 03:17 AM

Ok boys. Ive been back and forth for a while tryin to decide what i was gonna do and for how long. Well i got it down now. This is for sure. Just got the gear in so im ready to grow. This is how i got i planned out:

week 1: 1000mgs Test E. + 800mgs Deca
week 2: 700mgs Test E. + 400mgs Deca
600mgs Test E. (week 3-20)
400mgs Deca (week 3-18)

nolvadex (week 1-22)- 10mgs per day

I am also gonna run some HCG (week 18-22) 500 iu's per week

PCT: (starting week 23) Day 1: 300mgs Clomid + 20mgs Nolvadex
Day 2-30: 100mgs Clomid + 20mgs Nolvadex

Does everything look ok. My question is: Is that a good way to run my hcg because i know im gonna need it. Help me out if there is a better way to run the hcg plz!!!

**seanw** · 12-29-2004, 03:46 AM

Originally Posted by bigman96

Ok boys. Ive been back and forth for a while tryin to decide what i was gonna do and for how long. Well i got it down now. This is for sure. Just got the gear in so im ready to grow. This is how i got i planned out:

week 1: 1000mgs Test E. + 800mgs Deca
week 2: 700mgs Test E. + 400mgs Deca
600mgs Test E. (week 3-20)
400mgs Deca (week 3-18)

nolvadex (week 1-22)- 10mgs per day

I am also gonna run some HCG (week 18-22) 500 iu's per week

PCT: (starting week 23) Day 1: 300mgs Clomid + 20mgs Nolvadex
Day 2-30: 100mgs Clomid + 20mgs Nolvadex

Does everything look ok. My question is: Is that a good way to run my hcg because i know im gonna need it. Help me out if there is a better way to run the hcg plz!!!

Got this from another thread, it was written by an MD who uses gear. You might find it useful.

"I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid -induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn?t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn?t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM?s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel , or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a ?bridge?. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can?t ?fool? the body?it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground?and we don?t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.

**wolfyEVH** · 12-29-2004, 03:55 AM

Originally Posted by bigman96

Ok boys. Ive been back and forth for a while tryin to decide what i was gonna do and for how long. Well i got it down now. This is for sure. Just got the gear in so im ready to grow. This is how i got i planned out:

week 1: 1000mgs Test E. + 800mgs Deca
week 2: 700mgs Test E. + 400mgs Deca
600mgs Test E. (week 3-20)
400mgs Deca (week 3-18)

nolvadex (week 1-22)- 10mgs per day

I am also gonna run some HCG (week 18-22) 500 iu's per week

PCT: (starting week 23) Day 1: 300mgs Clomid + 20mgs Nolvadex
Day 2-30: 100mgs Clomid + 20mgs Nolvadex

Does everything look ok. My question is: Is that a good way to run my hcg because i know im gonna need it. Help me out if there is a better way to run the hcg plz!!!

this is waaaaaaay too much gear bro......even if you've been cycling for awhile. what makes you want to do this?

**hammerhead** · 12-29-2004, 05:14 AM

The cycle looks fine - the doses are OK - it is a little bit on the long side though. I'm glad you have HCG - you need it for a long ass cycle like this one.

There are a variety of opinions on HCG usage. I've tried many and from experience i've concluded that - at least for me - the best usage of HCG is to bump it about every 4 to 6 weeks throughout the cycle and then run it seriously for 2 weeks at the very end of the cycle.

So if I were you i'd do like 2500 i.u. per week on weeks 5,6,11,12,16,17 as little mid-cycle "ball booster"s. Then i'd do the real HCG treatment at weeks 22 and 23 at 5000 i.u. per week. I wouldn't run it for 5 weeks straight. That would hurt your test recovery due to the rebound you'll get when you stop the HCG. It's just there to prevent/reverse atrophy - remember that!

**Stout1** · 12-29-2004, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by bigman96

Ok boys. Ive been back and forth for a while tryin to decide what i was gonna do and for how long. Well i got it down now. This is for sure. Just got the gear in so im ready to grow. This is how i got i planned out:

week 1: 1000mgs Test E. + 800mgs Deca
week 2: 700mgs Test E. + 400mgs Deca
600mgs Test E. (week 3-20)
400mgs Deca (week 3-18)

nolvadex (week 1-22)- 10mgs per day

I am also gonna run some HCG (week 18-22) 500 iu's per week

PCT: (starting week 23) Day 1: 300mgs Clomid + 20mgs Nolvadex
Day 2-30: 100mgs Clomid + 20mgs Nolvadex

Does everything look ok. My question is: Is that a good way to run my hcg because i know im gonna need it. Help me out if there is a better way to run the hcg plz!!!

The HCG recommendation is POINT ON! So you are good to go with what SeanW pointed out. But why do you start out with SO MUCH gear and then taper down?? If anything it should look like this.....

Wk 1-10 500mg/wk Test 400mg/wk Deca
Wk 10-20 750mg/wk Test 600mg/wk Deca or 400mg/wk

Or since its such a long cycle havve you ever thought of running EQ instead??? Also With that long of a cycle with Deca I might even stop the Deca about 2 or 3 weeks before the test and just finish with test. It will make your recovery alot easier.

**Bouncer1982** · 12-29-2004, 08:49 AM

Once you have mixed the HCG do you have to use all of it? What I'm trying to say is that if once mixed you have 1500iu's and you only need 250 or 500iu's can you keep the rest mixed ready for the other days???

**seanw** · 12-29-2004, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Bouncer1982

Once you have mixed the HCG do you have to use all of it? What I'm trying to say is that if once mixed you have 1500iu's and you only need 250 or 500iu's can you keep the rest mixed ready for the other days???

just load up the leftovers into syringes and chuck it in the fridge

**bigman96** · 12-29-2004, 03:26 PM

the reason im taking 1gram of test the first week and 700mgs test the second week is so i can frontload it to get it in my system a bit quicker b/c im not using any orals this cycle. Thats the same reason why im running 800mgs deca the first week. Is this not smart.Someone with experience plz comment!!!

**bigman96** · 12-29-2004, 03:29 PM

should i run it like this or should i just bump the dosages up for like 15 weeks instead of running that for 20 weeks.

**tycin** · 12-29-2004, 03:32 PM

i would personally lower the deca dose and keep the test at 1000mg/week thruout the whole cycle and run it for about 12-15 weeks. maybe throw in some dbol for the 1st 4 weeks to jumpstart. JMO/....

**bigman96** · 12-29-2004, 03:35 PM

when u say lower the deca dose do you mean just for the first week or lower it down to less than 400mgs for the whole cycle?

**tycin** · 12-29-2004, 03:38 PM

i just read the thread better, i thought u were gon keep the deca at 800mg throout. keep the deca at around 400-500mg/week. i personally would just keep the saem mg/week for the whole cycle, no frontloading. thats just how i would do it.

**bigman96** · 12-29-2004, 03:48 PM

so frontloading isnt a good idea b/c that was what people on these boards have told me to do. I dont want to use dbol or any oral to jumpstart. I was told that if i frontloaded then i wouldnt need an oral to jumpstart it.

**tycin** · 12-29-2004, 03:55 PM

its up to u bro but i personally wouldnt do it.

***asymmetrical1*** · 12-29-2004, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by bigman96

Ok boys. Ive been back and forth for a while tryin to decide what i was gonna do and for how long. Well i got it down now. This is for sure. Just got the gear in so im ready to grow. This is how i got i planned out:

week 1: 1000mgs Test E. + 800mgs Deca
week 2: 700mgs Test E. + 400mgs Deca
600mgs Test E. (week 3-20)
400mgs Deca (week 3-18)

nolvadex (week 1-22)- 10mgs per day

I am also gonna run some HCG (week 18-22) 500 iu's per week

PCT: (starting week 23) Day 1: 300mgs Clomid + 20mgs Nolvadex
Day 2-30: 100mgs Clomid + 20mgs Nolvadex

Does everything look ok. My question is: Is that a good way to run my hcg because i know im gonna need it. Help me out if there is a better way to run the hcg plz!!!

imo start your cycle like you have it at week 3-20....and frontload with prop/dbol /abombs

**tycin** · 12-29-2004, 04:02 PM

if ur gon frontload then i would double the dose u plan on taking for the 1st week then 2nd week go to dose u want to shoot the whole time. ex. wk1-1000 test and 800mg/deca wk2-500mg/test and 400mg/deca. then keep it there.

**tycin** · 12-29-2004, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by asymmetrical1

imo start your cycle like you have it at week 3-20....and frontload with prop/dbol/abombs

i would do the same but cut out the a-bombs.

**bigman96** · 12-29-2004, 04:03 PM

thanks for the inpu bro. Alot of these bros wanna answer to my cycle ans say that is way out of proportion when half the time they dont really know & they are going by what they have heard. Well thats not meant towards any of you that gave out some input(all of yall's advice has been helpful). thnx bros.

***asymmetrical1*** · 12-29-2004, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by tycin

i would do the same but cut out the a-bombs.

yeah...i tried frontloading test e before and didnt care for it.....broke out like a madman and didnt see any gains for 4 weeks....prop my favorite jumper

**tycin** · 12-29-2004, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by asymmetrical1

yeah...i tried frontloading test e before and didnt care for it.....broke out like a madman and didnt see any gains for 4 weeks....prop my favorite jumper

me too bro, i love running prop as a jumpstart or even for a full cycle!

**bigman96** · 12-29-2004, 04:17 PM

so which would be a better jumpstart, Dbol or Prop.??

**tycin** · 12-29-2004, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by bigman96

so which would be a better jumpstart, Dbol or Prop.??

both good, depends on if u wanna inject ed for 4 weeks or take pills. the dbol will give u water the prop wont.

**The Baron** · 12-29-2004, 09:34 PM

Do you really think it is necessary to front load or jumpstart such a long cycle? I think you COULD just give it a miss with little consequence. But myself I would probably jumpstart with dbol at 35 to 50mg/day wk1-4 as per CW, just to get the fluid in the joints before the training ability shoots through the roof and the poundages go up but that's just me.

**bigman96** · 12-30-2004, 12:20 AM

Ok well. Since all of the information i have recieved on this thread i might change my cycle up just a bit. This is what it would look like:

Test E. (week 1-16) 750mgs
Deca (week 1-15) 450mgs
Dbol (week 1-5) 35mgs per day
Nolva (week 1-16) 10mgs per day and then 20mgs per day (week 17,18)

HCG : (week 8,9,15,16) 750iu's (split up Monday,Wednesday,Friday)

PCT: Week (19-22) Day 1: 300mgs Clomid + 20 mgs Nolva
Day 2-30: 100mgs clomid + 20mgs nolva

Is this better than the original cycle??? Also, i will have 500mgs extra of test E. left over so where should i add that to the cycle. Plz help!!!!!!!!