coming off juice after 6 months

[Big_Lex]

"
Hi,

I have been using steroids for the last 2 years now and my longest course was 14 weeks which w end with hcg clomid and HGH and arimidex. But in 2004 i have been on juice since june and im still on it which makes it 7 months. Yes its dumb i know but here i am and now my testies are the size of peanuts and my hair is very very thin. I the last 7 months ive been using almost everything, yes i know dumb very dumb. I started in june with equipose and winstroll and moved on to trenbolan growth Hormone sustanon and deca. Nethless to say my testostorone production is completely halted (hence peanut testis). I decided i have to come off and im planing to take last sustanon on the 20th. Now i already have Arimidex, nolvadex, proviron, HCG(5000 iu) HCG(2500 iu), clenbuterol and looots of clomid ready for post cycle.
After the last injection of sustanon i plan on waiting 3 weeks and start with HCG but im a bit confused.

In the front section of this site "how to come off steroids" it says that i should take 5000 iu of hcg 3 times in 3 day interval is that correct? is it not too much?

well if it is correct this is what i plan on doing and id like some opinions.
last injection of sus on 20th -----
after 1 week start proviron and nolvadex 1 tab a day of each.
after 3 weeks of the last sus injection add HCG(5000 iu) 3 times in 3 day period which means 5000 iu every day in those 3 days.
Once i start HCG i would discontinue proviron and start with arimidex but still
carry on with nolvadex.
after those 3 injections i would do another HCG 5000 iu 5 days later and another 5 days after that one.This is where i would stop HCG and carry on with clomid 2 tabds (50 mg) a day for next 2 weeks and 1 tab a day for Another 2 weeks terminating arimidex, carrying on with nolvadex and also when i start clomid start clenbuterol as well which i plan on taking for 6 weeks to try and prevent the catabolic phase.
I would be using nolvadex throughout this whole period where arimidex would be discontinued 5 days after the last HCG injection.

Please feel free to add your opinions since i have never been on juice so long so i dont know how will my body react. I am at 93 Kgs with 9% body fat and stong as an OX right now but i fear that i might lose a lot if the post cycle therapy is not done correctly and precisely.
I am also worried about cortisol but the anti cortisol drugs are extremely expensive and with lots of side effects on its own which i would like to avoid.

Thanks very much
Lex
"
I posted this thread in PCT section but there was no solid replies. If someone with experience of using AAS for such a long period at one time or has solid pharmacutical knowledge could writte out a solid PCT with dosages.

thanks in advance guys
Lex

[youknowme]

HCG is taken during a cycle not after! At 500iu E3D it's best taken care of...but only during a cycle not in PCT. This will only slow your recovering down.

HCG - during cycle
Nolva & Clomid - PCT

[squatster]

what did you end up getting out of your cycle,
how much weight?
how much fat?
how much muscle?
how much strenth?
I just wanted to know if you though it was worth it.
A lot of people will learn from this one. If you are truthfull about the results,it would be cool if you did real good. I my self would not want to loose my hair for the life of me.
when I got off my last long one, that I did not think was worth it at all- I started with 3000iu of hcg the followed buy 1000 every day 5 days on 2 days off. for 3 weeks then every other week I did 1000iu when I remembered about doing it. But thank god I went from penuts to a good size grape, I would like them to come back more but that was good for a start. I lost about 15lbs from being off, and have staid off for a long time now and just starting to feel good again
Let us know what you got from it and how you do and what you do. This is the only way any body learns, from other people actual cycles, deits work outs extra extra.

[Ntpadude]

HCG is taken during a cycle not after! At 500iu E3D it's best taken care of...but only during a cycle not in PCT. This will only slow your recovering down.

HCG - during cycle
Nolva & Clomid - PCT

I would extend cycle long enough to do 4 weeks of HCG, do nothing but testosterone during, this will help recover the balls and get the tren, deca, or whatever out of you that can inhibit recovery, for me, sometimes just getting deca or the other non-testosterone's out of your body and doing test ONLY, your balls come back "some" even though you are still on testosterone. Then wean off all that, go on clomid, nolva is unnecessary when you are doing clomid. Clomid does the best job at recovery and locate some tongkat ali. Tongkat should start while you still have testosterone in your system and continue for at least a month or two after your 2 weeks of clomid is done.

I can say I did 8 months of testosterone, started with deca at the first 2 months and did only test the rest of the 8 month period and I had a vigorous and outstanding recovery with just clomid and tongkat, I've never done HCG.

As for the anti-cortisol, well I didnt do clen, I simply lowered my workout time from my 2 hour to 1.5 hour "on cycle" workout time to 45 minutes to 1 hour. Creatine is anti-cortisol and so is caffiene. Be sure to eat full meal about 2 hours before workout, be dosed on creatine (I take at midnight after caffiene of the day has worn out), be dosed on caffiene when doing workout. This was plenty for me. The vigorous testosterone production and recovery you get from clomid/tongkat combination help support you from having too low of testosterone levels and this helps fight cortisol rebound, and my total weight loss 2.5 months after PCT following the 8 month cycle was about 8 lbs and when I recycled, the 8 pounds was very rapidly reclaimed because of muscle memory tied to the higher testosterone levels. In my PCT, I lost almost NO strength until more then 60 days after PCT, lost almost no muscle but 100% of that 8 lbs loss was water loss and fat loss, so I was actually looking BETTER in post cycle then during, mostly because the abs really came out and showed their stuff from the lack of water and lowered fat.

[toolman]

Good luck recovering bro!

[scorp]

Indeed...Good luck.

[odrorir]

You need to get bloodwork done...

From there you can form an intelligent plan of attack...

[Ntpadude]

You need to get bloodwork done...

From there you can form an intelligent plan of attack...

Yea but fresh in recovery or still ON can give you are badly distorted picture. When you go into PCT recovery, your blood levels of everything will change by the day and towards the better. After 90 days you will get a more accurate picture of your cholesterol, blood pressure, platelet sizes, and others although it might be good to find out of your blood is too thick with too many red and white blood cells. If you dont want to get labeled as a steroid user in your medical records, then just go donate a pint of blood and this should thin you down to more normal levels, it also helps to rapidly drop unusually high cholesterol and trigliceride levels and reduces your risk of stroke from having too thick of blood.

Everyone doing at least 5 months out of a calender year on steroids should donate blood at least twice a year to avoid this blood thickening problem.

[scorp]

Yea but fresh in recovery or still ON can give you are badly distorted picture. When you go into PCT recovery, your blood levels of everything will change by the day and towards the better. After 90 days you will get a more accurate picture of your cholesterol, blood pressure, platelet sizes, and others although it might be good to find out of your blood is too thick with too many red and white blood cells. If you dont want to get labeled as a steroid user in your medical records, then just go donate a pint of blood and this should thin you down to more normal levels, it also helps to rapidly drop unusually high cholesterol and trigliceride levels and reduces your risk of stroke from having too thick of blood.

Everyone doing at least 5 months out of a calender year on steroids should donate blood at least twice a year to avoid this blood thickening problem.

I hear you bro and I can respect your opinion and your views. However, if one is worried about being deemed a AAS user, then one should not even do AAS in the first place. Full blown steroid detection tests cost $1000's of dollars and I highly doubt that a doc or hospital is going to run such tests based on suspicion. I am very lucky to have a Urologist who can assist me with my bloodwork and keeps my info private.

It is essential to get Bloodwork done pre-cycle, mid-cycle, post-cycle and again 6weeks after PCT. If you do not know what your home base is concerning your hormonal make-up, then you will never truly know what needs to be done in order to facilitate a hormonal balance after the cycle is complete. It is good to know what is up with your hormonal system prior, during, post cycle and again 6 weeks post PCT. Is is also a good idea to monitor it monthly thereafter. I know that this sort of thing is a pain in the arse to have done consistently but it is very beneficial to one's overall health. There are hormonal parameter that need to be monitored in all stages of the game. Yes, there will be fluctuations in all of the hormonal parameters here and there but that is how one will come to understand how their body is operating whilst on AAS and off of AAS. By the way, why would you want to donate steroid tainted blood? What if someone needs that blood straight away and there are still heavy amounts of androgens floating around in it? I just do not agree with that at all.

[scorp]

Creatine is anti-cortisol and so is caffiene.

Check this study out on caffeine and cortisol. Very interesting.


http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/6/2170

[Big_Lex]

i didnt really follow the gains on the dot but in june before i started equipose winstrol i was about 80 KGs with 12 % body fat was benching about 100kgs and squating about 120kgs as far as i remember to be honest i dont even really remember. i carried on for 2 months with winny equipose with EQ being 400mgs per week and winny 1 ml every second day. After those 2 months i was gonna stop juice but never did PCT and 3 weeks later said what the hell and went on sustanon 1ml per week trenbolan 75 mg every third day and cypionate 2-4 mls per week. Thats where the hair started thining out hectic and nuts shrinking but the gains were incredible that also went for about 2 months. Then again i took a 3 week break and got drawn in to another course by thinking "ill go just a few more weeks and go for my PCT". So i started off again with sus/deca/cypionate. The dosages werent high one ampule of sus a week 2 amps of deca a week 400mg 2 mls of cypionate if i recall correctly. Well here i am now just jabbing sustanon and still havent stopped (to scared to stop) cause im looking GREAT but not feeling great. the last time i checked my weight was 93 KGs with 9 % body fat and redicilous strength well for me at least. Benching out 160 kgs 8 reps with a little spot squating 340 kgs 6 reps max i mean im verry happy. But although im still juicing my sex drive diminished dont really know why and im tired all the time my ankles hurt like hell nuts are the size of peanuts and hair is really thin. My joints are also giving me problems.
If i can minimize my loses during the PCT and afterwards i plan on staying of juice for the rest of 2005 deffinately. Now i stocked on **** load of HCG Clomid nolva arimidex clenbuterol and proviron for pct but i think ill carry on for another month with maybe sus/propionate/winstrol and do 4 weeks of HCG during but not sure what dosage to use since i have been on for so long. Im starting nolvadex on monday not sure if i should start arimidex as well. Bought 2 boxes of 30 tabs but they are each 1 mg so i wanna cut them in half bloody expensive.

[Big_Lex]

by the way what is tongkat is there another name for it? never heard about it here

[scorp]

i didnt really follow the gains on the dot but in june before i started equipose winstrol i was about 80 KGs with 12 % body fat was benching about 100kgs and squating about 120kgs as far as i remember to be honest i dont even really remember. i carried on for 2 months with winny equipose with EQ being 400mgs per week and winny 1 ml every second day. After those 2 months i was gonna stop juice but never did PCT and 3 weeks later said what the hell and went on sustanon 1ml per week trenbolan 75 mg every third day and cypionate 2-4 mls per week. Thats where the hair started thining out hectic and nuts shrinking but the gains were incredible that also went for about 2 months. Then again i took a 3 week break and got drawn in to another course by thinking "ill go just a few more weeks and go for my PCT". So i started off again with sus/deca/cypionate. The dosages werent high one ampule of sus a week 2 amps of deca a week 400mg 2 mls of cypionate if i recall correctly. Well here i am now just jabbing sustanon and still havent stopped (to scared to stop) cause im looking GREAT but not feeling great. the last time i checked my weight was 93 KGs with 9 % body fat and redicilous strength well for me at least. Benching out 160 kgs 8 reps with a little spot squating 340 kgs 6 reps max i mean im verry happy. But although im still juicing my sex drive diminished dont really know why and im tired all the time my ankles hurt like hell nuts are the size of peanuts and hair is really thin. My joints are also giving me problems.
If i can minimize my loses during the PCT and afterwards i plan on staying of juice for the rest of 2005 deffinately. Now i stocked on **** load of HCG Clomid nolva arimidex clenbuterol and proviron for pct but i think ill carry on for another month with maybe sus/propionate/winstrol and do 4 weeks of HCG during but not sure what dosage to use since i have been on for so long. Im starting nolvadex on monday not sure if i should start arimidex as well. Bought 2 boxes of 30 tabs but they are each 1 mg so i wanna cut them in half bloody expensive.

I would love to know the following info.

Testosterone, Total: 260 - 1000 ng/dL
Testosterone, Free: 50 - 210 pg/mL
Testosterone, Free %: 1.0 - 2.7%
Estradiol: < 32 pg/mL
LH: 1.5 - 9.3 mIU/mL

[odrorir]

Longjack

by the way what is tongkat is there another name for it? never heard about it here

[Big_Lex]

i swithced medical aid and now there is a stuff up with the new one. It only activates in the middle of feb so dont really wanna spend money since ive ordered about 120 ius of humatrope so im pretty broke for now.

[odrorir]

http://www.getswole.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1026

[Big_Lex]

never heard of longjack either is it a supplement or pharmacutical drug? and if it is pharmacuitcal whats it used for so i can ask my "pharmacist"

[Big_Lex]

thanks odrorir will get ahold of it

[odrorir]

Synonyms: Eurycoma longifolia Jack, Long Jack, Tongkat Ali, Malaysian ginseng

never heard of longjack either is it a supplement or pharmacutical drug? and if it is pharmacuitcal whats it used for so i can ask my "pharmacist"

[Big_Lex]

universal animal stack 2 has both longjack extract and tribulus with no pro hormones. has anyone used it? should i get that? cant find tongkat ali here in SA

[blown]

HCG is taken during a cycle not after! At 500iu E3D it's best taken care of...but only during a cycle not in PCT. This will only slow your recovering down.

HCG - during cycle
Nolva & Clomid - PCT

Have you seen Big Cat's "sane cycle" at bodybuilding.com? He says just the opposite:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ght=sane+cycle

Week 1-12 : Testosterone enanthate / cypionate 400-500 mg/week
Or : Testosterone propionate 150 mg every other day

Week 1-2 : Boldenone Undecylenate 600-800 mg/week
Week 3-12 : Boldenone Undecylenate 300-400 mg/week
Week 6-13 : Stanozolol 50-100 mg/day
Week 12-14 : HCG 3000/3000/1500/1500 IU / 5days
Week 12-17 : Tamoxifen Citrate 20 mg/day
Week 14-15 : Clomiphene Citrate 100 mg/day
Week 16-17 : Clomiphene Citrate 50 mg/day
Week 14-15 : (Spironolactone) 50 mg/day

[powerfreak777]

most improtant is to know how to work-out without juice, I have 15 years exp. thats at least 11 without juice. You must have a good base without drugs before using. Take 1500-2500iu of hcg every 5 days, for 3 weeks after two weeks after last shot, start taking clomid three weeks after last shot, 100mg, for two weeks then 50mg. for 1 week. This is just my thoughts. Good luck, and remember this is the time to work out hard, or you will lose it all, a good routine is 4 days a week, remember the basics, bench, squat, deadlift

[needle]

good luck with recovery, 7 months on, sounds like fun!!!

[Stumbo]

Have you seen Big Cat's "sane cycle" at bodybuilding.com? He says just the opposite:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ght=sane+cycle

Some of his stuf is out dated.

[tony_1985]

I would extend cycle long enough to do 4 weeks of HCG, do nothing but testosterone during, this will help recover the balls and get the tren, deca, or whatever out of you that can inhibit recovery, for me, sometimes just getting deca or the other non-testosterone's out of your body and doing test ONLY, your balls come back "some" even though you are still on testosterone.

good advice there bro.

[youknowme]

Have you seen Big Cat's "sane cycle" at bodybuilding.com? He says just the opposite:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ght=sane+cycle

That's crazy talk...
You wanna prevent your nuts from shrinking, that's the goal. If you wait until the 12th week they have already shrunk and he's using HCG as a kickstart infront of the PCT. Why get the problem to get rid of it when you can prevent it?!

[Big_Lex]

I have decided what ill do hopefully it will work out i will extend the course for another 6 weeks of sus/propionate. i already started nolvadex and ill use it till the end of PCT. my last shot of sus will be 3 weeks before the end and in those last 3 weeks ill use HCG 500 iu monday and thursday, proviron 25 mg a day plus ill cut my 1 mg arimidex tabs in to 4 so i get .25s and use that as well till the end of my HCG shots. This should completely get rid of estrogen by the time my PCT starts . After the last shot of HCG ill stop proviron and 3 days later stop arimidex as well. This is where i begin with Clomid first day 300mg then 3 weeks of 100 mg and 2 weeks of 50 mg (using nolvadex all this time). I also intend toi start clenbuterol, animal stack 2 from universal (with longjack extract + tribulus) the day i start my PCT. Shorten my work outs to 45 minutes 5 days a week, train one body part a day with compound movements such as squats, deadlifts, bench press, barbell curls etc.Ill probibly only do Squats for upper legs since they are supposed to increase test levels naturally apparently. Ill cut down on my carb intake but ill keep protein very high drink lots of cofee for cafein vs cortisol effects. 3 weeks after the PCT ill do bloodwork and see how im doing. How does that sound?