the cream

**anasomniac** · 02-04-2005, 11:45 AM

Everybody's heard of Barry Bonds taking "the cream". That sounds like a good alternative to injections. Can anybody elaborate on that subject. It would be nice to know you could just rub something on your body as a steroid other than those somewhat painfull injections. I would like to know what it is, and what it really does. Does anybody have any answers to that?

**soo2bhuge** · 02-04-2005, 12:12 PM

i don't think u can find it without the doctors' prescription. i doubt it would be as effective as injections.

**Hot-Rox** · 02-04-2005, 12:14 PM

It is very likely that Bond's was also taking injections. In fact, I heard somewhere that he said he thought flax seed oil and b12 is what he was having injected (what a bunch of bull).

**QuieTSToRM33** · 02-04-2005, 12:18 PM

The "cream" is believed to be testosterone -based .

The "clear" is what Bonds thought was flax seed oil.

**soo2bhuge** · 02-04-2005, 12:19 PM

he had to inject. i think that he's using this whole "cream" story to make it sound not as bad. it always amazes me how people react to injections v. orals

**soo2bhuge** · 02-04-2005, 12:20 PM

or cream in this case

**QuieTSToRM33** · 02-04-2005, 12:25 PM

the cream was transdermal.

the clear was taken orally.

***Narkissos*** · 02-04-2005, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by anasomniac

Everybody's heard of Barry Bonds taking "the cream". That sounds like a good alternative to injections. Can anybody elaborate on that subject. It would be nice to know you could just rub something on your body as a steroid other than those somewhat painfull injections. I would like to know what it is, and what it really does. Does anybody have any answers to that?

1st post?

suspicious

sounds like a reported looking for info to me

**ire** · 02-04-2005, 12:45 PM

Yeah, has reporterd all over it.

**Whitey** · 02-04-2005, 02:32 PM

The clear was injected, and probably a compound similar to trenbolone .

**SwoleDave** · 02-04-2005, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Whitey

The clear was injected, and probably a compound similar to trenbolone.

the clear was NOT injected, it was placed under the tounge and obsorbed like that

**Whitey** · 02-04-2005, 02:54 PM

Okay, maybe I got bad information then. Who has research to settle this?

**SwoleDave** · 02-04-2005, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by Whitey

Okay, maybe I got bad information then. Who has research to settle this?

how about Barry Bonds???

**Whitey** · 02-04-2005, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by SwoleDave

how about Barry Bonds???

LMAO!!!

**IGOTJUICE007** · 02-04-2005, 03:08 PM

from what i understand:

Cream: Transdermal- a good penetrating matrix is said to be near 60-70% as effective as injection.

Clear: Sublingual- meaning that the membranes underneath your tongue particularly absorb the substance into the bloodstream

Transdermals and sublinguals have been around for years, these are just delivery system, it would interesting to find out the exact active compounds in each.

**Whitey** · 02-04-2005, 03:08 PM

No seriously, you guys remember when the whole BALCO thing went down - Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, and that other girl? The way the doping committee found out about "the clear" is someone anonymously sent them a used syringe from one of the athletes.

**SwoleDave** · 02-04-2005, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Whitey

No seriously, you guys remember when the whole BALCO thing went down - Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, and that other girl? The way the doping committee found out about "the clear" is someone anonymously sent them a used syringe from one of the athletes.

I know bonds testified that he took it under his tounge, because "he thought it was flack seed oil" and he kept it in his locker... i think if it came in a vial, people would have noticed it and became suspicious

**Whitey** · 02-04-2005, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by SwoleDave

I know bonds testified that he took it under his tounge, because "he thought it was flack seed oil" and he kept it in his locker... i think if it came in a vial, people would have noticed it and became suspicious

Well, call me a dick, but I don't believe a word Bonds says... I don't blame him for his denials, by any means - you gotta do what you gotta do. I mean, look what happened to Giambi when he came clean. I can't believe how the public turns on these guys the way they do. I mean, they push these guys to use, pretend it's not happening, then assassinate them when the facts are made public. WTF?

**Dude-Man** · 02-04-2005, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Whitey

No seriously, you guys remember when the whole BALCO thing went down - Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, and that other girl? The way the doping committee found out about "the clear" is someone anonymously sent them a used syringe from one of the athletes.

no, they found tetrahydrogestrinone. or THG in that syringe.

**Whitey** · 02-04-2005, 04:32 PM

right - so you're saying they're different?

**IGOTJUICE007** · 02-04-2005, 06:05 PM

I think I read somewhere that THG was related to 1-testosterone , except just an undetectable version, who knows.

**Stackertoo** · 02-04-2005, 06:36 PM

They have already discovered the next one. So they are probably about 5-10 "mystery substances" behind the game.

But authorities acted like nothing new could ever be developed. Tell that **** to the 4 year old clone running around in some third world country

**Dude-Man** · 02-04-2005, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by Whitey

right - so you're saying they're different?

yes. THG is not the clear.

**freon** · 02-04-2005, 09:26 PM

"The cream" was alleged to be a mix of testosterone and epitestosterone. The only use for that particular combination would be defeating steroid testing based on T/E ratios.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1101041balco6.html

**Blown_SC** · 02-04-2005, 09:28 PM

http://forums.anabolicreview.com/sho...d.php?t=136953

**Tygerflex** · 02-05-2005, 12:01 PM

It is my understanding that the cream is used to maintain levels after running cycles of injectibles.
My HRT consultant said that after a person get's to a certain point they would transition to cream to maintain.
This is just my experience and of course I could be wrong....

**Tygerflex** · 02-05-2005, 12:08 PM

This came from the Over 30 Forum

Transdermal systems

Currently, three testosterone transdermal systems are marketed: a system applied to the scrotum that has no permeation enhancers [Testoderm, 6 mg, ALZA Corporation, Palo Alto, CA] and two systems that contain permeation enhancers for application to appendage or torso skin [Androderm 2.5 mg and 5 mg, SmithKline Beecham Pharmaceuticals, Philadelphia, PA; Testoderm TTS, 5 mg, ALZA Corporation, Palo Alto, CA]. Scrotal patches produce high levels of circulating dihydrotestosterone (DHT) due to the high 5-alpha-reductase enzyme activity of scrotal skin.

Clinical studies of transdermal systems demonstrate their efficacy in providing adequate testosterone replacement therapy.13-15 Skin irritation may be associated with the use of transdermal systems; however, Testoderm and Testoderm TTS caused significantly less topical skin irritation than Androderm in two separate clinical studies.16,17

**Dude-Man** · 02-05-2005, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Blown_SC

http://forums.anabolicreview.com/sho...d.php?t=136953

Blown_SC for president.

**Blown_SC** · 02-05-2005, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Dude-Man

Blown_SC for president.

I see you got a name change...

**Whitey** · 02-05-2005, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by freon

"The cream" was alleged to be a mix of testosterone and epitestosterone. The only use for that particular combination would be defeating steroid testing based on T/E ratios.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1101041balco6.html

Great link - thanks, bro.

**Whitey** · 02-05-2005, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Blown_SC

http://forums.anabolicreview.com/sho...d.php?t=136953"- `The Clear': BALCO's name for a liquid taken orally, composed of THG, insulin and EPO (which stimulates production of red blood cells, which in turn improves endurance, SEE BELOW). BALCO founder Victor Conte said it was developed from the steroid norbolethone. Barry Bonds told a grand jury he ingested a clear substance but thought it was flaxseed oil."

You da man! Very interesting info. I find it particularly interesting that the clear and cream were only administered twice a week. I wonder what type of esters were used in the formulations.

**freon** · 02-06-2005, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Whitey

I wonder what type of esters were used in the formulations.

Almost certainly no ester, because an ester isn't useful in a transdermal application, althought that doesn't explain their dosing schedule, which doesn't seem consistant with the prescription transdermal products out there.

"The esterification of the testosterone molecule at the 17-ß-hydroxy position makes the molecule hydrophobic and extends its duration of action. Deesterification of testosterone is not a limiting factor in determining its duration of action; the plasma half-lives and clearance rates for testosterone and testosterone enanthate are similar. It is the slow release of the hydrophobic testosterone ester from its oily depot in the muscle that accounts for its extended duration. The longer the side chain, the greater the hydrophobicity of the ester and the greater the duration of action. Thus testosterone enanthate and cypionate with longer side chains have longer duration of action than testosterone propionate ."

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/82/1/3

**Ntpadude** · 02-06-2005, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by anasomniac

Everybody's heard of Barry Bonds taking "the cream". That sounds like a good alternative to injections. Can anybody elaborate on that subject. It would be nice to know you could just rub something on your body as a steroid other than those somewhat painfull injections. I would like to know what it is, and what it really does. Does anybody have any answers to that?

This all sounds too gay if you ask me.

**Whitey** · 02-06-2005, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by freon

Almost certainly no ester, because an ester isn't useful in a transdermal application, althought that doesn't explain their dosing schedule, which doesn't seem consistant with the prescription transdermal products out there.

"The esterification of the testosterone molecule at the 17-ß-hydroxy position makes the molecule hydrophobic and extends its duration of action. Deesterification of testosterone is not a limiting factor in determining its duration of action; the plasma half-lives and clearance rates for testosterone and testosterone enanthate are similar. It is the slow release of the hydrophobic testosterone ester from its oily depot in the muscle that accounts for its extended duration. The longer the side chain, the greater the hydrophobicity of the ester and the greater the duration of action. Thus testosterone enanthate and cypionate with longer side chains have longer duration of action than testosterone propionate ."

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/82/1/3

Yeah, I don't get it. I've heard estered compounds are too large to penetrate, yet the short active life of transdermal applications (12 hrs. or so) should require frequent applications. 2x a week is incredible. It could be bull$hit. They could've lied about the dosing schedule.