How Does This Sound? Deca/winny/clen (no Test)

[baylee73]

Please let me know if I do need test for this cutting cycle??? I would appreciate all your help. 26, 5'7" 185 @15% BF. 2 - 3rd cycle. Can anyone critque my CUTTING cycle (Quality Muscle).

WEEKS 1 - 8
DECA 400 MG/WEEK

WEEKS 5 - 11
WINNY 50MG ED OR 100 MG EOD
CLEN 2,3,4,5,6,6,6,6,5,4,3,2 (2WEEKS ON/1OFF)

PCT
CLOMID 1 DAY AFTER WINNY/CLEN
NOLVADEX ON HAND 10-20 MG/DAY

[***xxx***]

not a good idea - clen is ****, use eca instead. deca for cutting? nope. winstrol is just toxic, use some anavar instead.
u need some test, so get some prop. this cycle is not good for cutting, sorry bro.

[baylee73]

I've done some research on this board and I thought deca & clen is good for cutting. deca for quality muscle & clen for fat loss? I can't get anavar or fina. Just trying to work w/what I got. Please do advise. Mahalo.

[redmeat]

Add some test. You should have test in every cycle, even if it's only 1 cc/wk.

[***xxx***]

u cant build up muscle and lose fat - maybe with gh but not with steroids .

[baylee73]

If I can't build up muscle while cutting, what is the test for? Not trying to be wise or anything, just wanting to learn the reasons. I appreciate the help. What kind of test should I consider?

[***xxx***]

test protects your mucles while you are cutting. u can t build up muscles with a calorie deficit. but u need a calorie deficit to cut.

[baylee73]

I'm just wanting to lose my little kangaroo pouch, put some abs on & look hard (vascular). I know dieting is key here, but what will be the best cycle for this goal? I guess that's what I'm asking.

P.S. I really don't wanna add any muscle, but like you said, just keep from losing from the dieting.

[Blown_SC]

Wow... there is some miseducation being shown in this thread...

1) Deca CAN be used in a cutter.... ultimately diet and cardio will take you in the direction you wish to go...
2) Clen is not 'shyt'....
3) Winny isn't that much more toxic than Var...
4) You CAN build muscle while shedding some bf without using GH....

Bro, you should clean up your DIET... and do proper CARDIO....

Once you have that perfected, look into other things........ you need the basics down first....

And yes, what you have proposed is NOT a good plan, to say the least...

[AandF6969]

Please let me know if I do need test for this cutting cycle???

Only if you want to be able to have an erection during your cycle and for months afterward.

[LeanMeOut]

Wow... there is some miseducation being shown in this thread...

1) Deca CAN be used in a cutter.... ultimately diet and cardio will take you in the direction you wish to go...
2) Clen is not 'shyt'....
3) Winny isn't that much more toxic than Var...
4) You CAN build muscle while shedding some bf without using GH....

Bro, you should clean up your DIET... and do proper CARDIO....

Once you have that perfected, look into other things........ you need the basics down first....

And yes, what you have proposed is NOT a good plan, to say the least...

[***xxx***]

yeah, u can also make deca only cycles...of course everything is based on the diet and cardio, but for muscle protection during cuttin, deca is no good.

imo clen is ****. it s jsut too unhelthy for the benefits.

winstrol is much more toxic than anavar . lps read a little bit on the topic. alone that they r both 17aa doesn t say anything. wintrol is harsh on the liver and your lipid profile. not to talk about your hairline...anavar is also given to children and women - why? because it s the safest steroid out there...

pls show me an example of someone experienced, nt a newbie, who shredded, lost fat and build up muscle mass...I dunno anyone who was capable of doing that...

[bor]

4) You CAN build muscle while shedding some bf without using GH....

How? In detail please

[angelxterminator]

How? In detail please

I'm currently on slight (very slight) caloric deficit. I have lost 4% body fat, and in the process, my total weight has gone up 7 lbs.

I started at 220

That puts me at a lean mass gain of roughly 16 pounds....all while on a caloric deficit

Not natural of course though!

(edit)
I'm also deducting what i believe to be water weight from that total, as that is not lean mass, and should not be included. Obviously that makes it an estimate.

[baylee73]

bump

[thebrakes]

winstrol is much more toxic than anavar . lps read a little bit on the topic. alone that they r both 17aa doesn t say anything. wintrol is harsh on the liver and your lipid profile. not to talk about your hairline...anavar is also given to children and women - why? because it s the safest steroid out there...

pls show me an example of someone experienced, nt a newbie, who shredded, lost fat and build up muscle mass...I dunno anyone who was capable of doing that...

anavar isn't methylated at the 17aa position, but at the 1 position.

people do gain muscle and lose fat, and not just newbs. what do you need for proof? i dont have photo logs and measurements, but i've seen it and experienced it. also - with thermogenic substances you dont need much of a caloric deficit to shed fat, as long as you are patient.

[baylee73]

I just want to know if the stack listed above is good for hardening up and shedding some fat. If not, then what would be a decent stack for cutting. I don't wanna buy the wrong gear. Anyone with some kind of insite PLEASE.

[Consistency]

Deca is properly one of the worst drugs to cut with because it adds alot of bloat and makes your muscle look softer.

For cutting I would run Test Prop/winny/clen /eca

[Rickson]

I think in this case you would be better off substituting Prop for deca . I am a deca fan and don't get the bloat that most seem to get from it but there are some other risk factors in running it without test. The liver toxicity is over rated for winny and this drug can be very beneficial in a cutting cycle. Alternating clen and ECA seems to be an effective combo for additional fat loss. Certainly you can add some muscle while dieting but you won't maximize gains the way you would with an over abundance of calories. I hope things go well on your cycle and let us know what you chose to do and the results.

[longhorn814]

I just want to know if the stack listed above is good for hardening up and shedding some fat. If not, then what would be a decent stack for cutting. I don't wanna buy the wrong gear. Anyone with some kind of insite PLEASE.

prop and tren , you can throw in winny or var if you want to as well.

[Blown_SC]

yeah, u can also make deca only cycles...of course everything is based on the diet and cardio, but for muscle protection during cuttin, deca is no good.

imo clen is ****. it s jsut too unhelthy for the benefits.

winstrol is much more toxic than anavar . lps read a little bit on the topic. alone that they r both 17aa doesn t say anything. wintrol is harsh on the liver and your lipid profile. not to talk about your hairline...anavar is also given to children and women - why? because it s the safest steroid out there...

pls show me an example of someone experienced, nt a newbie, who shredded, lost fat and build up muscle mass...I dunno anyone who was capable of doing that...

The toxicity isn't that much greater...

In YOUR opinion clen may be 'shyt'... but many people applaud it...

Also, all I'm saying is that you CAN cut on deca, many have done it...

Oh yeah, look a couple posts down for your experienced user who shred bf while gained LBM.... (angelxterminator)

[baylee73]

So... does this look a like a better cycle than the one posted above?

WEEKS 1 - 8
TEST PROP 400 MG/WEEK

WEEKS 5 - 11
WINNY 50MG ED OR 100 MG EOD
CLEN 2,3,4,5,6,6,6,6,5,4,3,2 (2WEEKS ON/1OFF)

PCT
CLOMID 1 DAY AFTER WINNY/CLEN
NOLVADEX ON HAND 10-20 MG/DAY

[Consistency]

stop the winny and prop at the same time... begin pct 3 days after last prop shot. You can run the clen throughout pct.

[baylee73]

So tHe ProP & wInnY Can bE uSed foR 11 WeeKs?? HoW WIlL ThIs muCh TEST aFFect mY gyNo & teST leVEls? Wont it be too long/much??

WEEKS 1 - 11
TEST PROP 400 MG/WEEK

WEEKS 5 - 11
WINNY 50MG ED OR 100 MG EOD
CLEN 2,3,4,5,6,6,6,6,5,4,3,2 (2WEEKS ON/1OFF)

PCT
CLOMID 3 DAYs AFTER TEST
NOLVADEX ON HAND 10-20 MG/DAY

[baylee73]

bump

[baylee73]

bump

[BUYLONGTERM]

So tHe ProP & wInnY Can bE uSed foR 11 WeeKs?? HoW WIlL ThIs muCh TEST aFFect mY gyNo & teST leVEls? Wont it be too long/much??

WEEKS 1 - 11
TEST PROP 400 MG/WEEK

WEEKS 5 - 11
WINNY 50MG ED OR 100 MG EOD
CLEN 2,3,4,5,6,6,6,6,5,4,3,2 (2WEEKS ON/1OFF)

PCT
CLOMID 3 DAYs AFTER TEST
NOLVADEX ON HAND 10-20 MG/DAY

Thats much better of a cycle. I would NEVER use Deca to cut. But, even if you were to use Deca, it would need to be run longer than 8 weeks. To keep your blood levels more stable, you definitely should shoot both the Prop and Winstrol ED!!!!!!! The only thing I can't comment on is CLEN. I have never nor would ever take it.

[baylee73]

bump

[Vegas67]

So tHe ProP & wInnY Can bE uSed foR 11 WeeKs?? HoW WIlL ThIs muCh TEST aFFect mY gyNo & teST leVEls? Wont it be too long/much??

WEEKS 1 - 11
TEST PROP 400 MG/WEEK

WEEKS 5 - 11
WINNY 50MG ED OR 100 MG EOD
CLEN 2,3,4,5,6,6,6,6,5,4,3,2 (2WEEKS ON/1OFF)

PCT
CLOMID 3 DAYs AFTER TEST
NOLVADEX ON HAND 10-20 MG/DAY

My cycle exactly....but I am doing some GH, and Armidex along with it. I have gained 12 lbs in 8 weeks and maintained the same bf but look more ripped and vascular. Run the test between .50 and .75 mg/ed.

[Cordoba]

Wow... there is some miseducation being shown in this thread...

1) Deca CAN be used in a cutter.... ultimately diet and cardio will take you in the direction you wish to go...
2) Clen is not 'shyt'....
3) Winny isn't that much more toxic than Var...
4) You CAN build muscle while shedding some bf without using GH....

Bro, you should clean up your DIET... and do proper CARDIO....

Once you have that perfected, look into other things........ you need the basics down first....

And yes, what you have proposed is NOT a good plan, to say the least...

Agreed
1) any AAS can be used to cut or bulk, but for cutting most people dont like AAS that tend hold water.
2) Allot of people love clen including myself
3) I belive Winny is less toxic then var. Winnys molecular weight is 344.5392, anavars molecular weight is 306.4442. mg for mg winny would have less molecules, therfore less 17-aa, and the 17-aaaddition is what makes orals toxic.
4) I have built muscle and lost some BF at the same time so its completely possible...and I was on sust and deca cycle.

[baylee73]

Should Nolva be used in a "JUST IN CASE" way or should I take it no matter what (w/the cycle)? Also, should I take in milk thistle w/this cycle or is the winny or any of these items not toxic enough?? MAHALO.

[Glock-19]

Winni will cut your ass up and you will lose hella fat.

[baylee73]

anyone???