If Deca is permanent, and Test is only temp ... why Test???

[Oceans7]

My brief experience (3 cycles) has been that the Deca/Eq/Winny results stay permanently, and the Test/D-Bol are VERY short lived. I'm 47, and in incredible shape, but I do NOT want to stay on AA's for the rest of my life. So why all the hype about Test Enth, Test Cyp, Fina, etc???? If you LOSE it all, why do it?? I have been very happy with the results from Deca/Eq/Winny. I have gone from 185 to 206 with 10% BF in one year. Am I missing something? Looking for guidance from you Pros ... :-)

[mark956101957]

To loose it all on test has not been my experience. If anything while on Deca I would imagine you would loose quite a bit due to the water retention that Deca gives generally. But what do I know I am not in incredible shape. But I am 47 so whats your secret? : )

[Oceans7]

Shoot I'm a Newbie, no secrets here. I havev worked out all my life, and been blessed with decent genetics. But I have read lot and tried to follow what I glean from this board. I did 400mg Deca EW/30mg Dbol ED/50mg Winny EOD and gained 20LB's in 10 weeks (lost 5LB). Not bad for 5'9". And I kept 15LB's, which made me happy. Being 47 and having people talk about you being a big boy all the time is awesome!!! I would still like to gain another 15 LB's or so of hard muscle, but I am leary of the Test. I want to keep this for years ...not weeks.

[YounG_SluG11]

Shoot I'm a Newbie, no secrets here. I havev worked out all my life, and been blessed with decent genetics. But I have read lot and tried to follow what I glean from this board. I did 400mg Deca EW/30mg Dbol ED/50mg Winny EOD and gained 20LB's in 10 weeks (lost 5LB). Not bad for 5'9". And I kept 15LB's, which made me happy. Being 47 and having people talk about you being a big boy all the time is awesome!!! I would still like to gain another 15 LB's or so of hard muscle, but I am leary of the Test. I want to keep this for years ...not weeks.

Have you ever used test? I keep test gains better than deca. You might have kept it all with the deca/dbol/winny, because of the winny. I don't know though.

[Oceans7]

Did test only once when I was a kid, and didn't now a thing about PCT. But now it's caught my interest ... everyone says it is the best. What was your PCT?

[Rickson]

There is no reason why you can't keep just as much with test as long as you have proper ancillaries and a good post cycle therapy plan. At your age you may run into trouble going to many cycles without test.

[dirtdawg]

most of gains from deca is water retention, and with deca u keep the least amount of gains

[YounG_SluG11]

There is no reason why you can't keep just as much with test as long as you have proper ancillaries and a good post cycle therapy plan. At your age you may run into trouble going to many cycles without test.

Yeah bro like Rickson says. I forgot to mention that you'll have trouble down under without test at your age.

[ChefJ]

You are using old information from charts that are extermely outdated.

[Oceans7]

I'm sold. What should be my PCT?

[Rickson]

I do however disagree that all deca gains are from water. I don't hold nearly as much water from deca as I do from test it is just easier to control test bloat. I am quite a fan of deca I just think it works much better in conjunction with test and eliminates some of the problems that can come from a deca based cycle.

[peump]

I'm sold. What should be my PCT?

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=94626

[Whitey]

You can get it all at AR-R - click the banner at the top of the screen.

[dirtdawg]

I do however disagree that all deca gains are from water. I don't hold nearly as much water from deca as I do from test it is just easier to control test bloat. I am quite a fan of deca I just think it works much better in conjunction with test and eliminates some of the problems that can come from a deca based cycle.

i read that deca's gains from estrogen

Bovee TF, Helsdingen RJ, Rietjens IM, Keijer J, Hoogenboom RL. Rapid yeast estrogen bioassays stably expressing human estrogen receptors alpha and beta, and green fluorescent protein: a comparison of different compounds with both receptor types. J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2004 Jul;91(3):99-109.

[Oceans7]

Thanks peump ... outstanding info!!!

[absolutebob]

You are using old information from charts that are extermely outdated.

doesn't it say on the steroid effectivness chart of steroid.com that deca gains are kept a lot more than test

[Hed]

doesn't it say on the steroid effectivness chart of steroid.com that deca gains are kept a lot more than test

Again, all that chart stuff is outdated information.

[toolman]

Thanks peump ... outstanding info!!!

Oceans, on behalf of another member in the 40's, you will absolutely love what test does tot eh sex drive. It's like being 17 again. Spontaneous erection city.

[spooledup]

I'm 42 and I hate test.

I'm on cycle now and not using any. Loving it...no probs whatsoever.

[shrunkennutz116]

u can keep the most of ur gains off a test cycle as long as u do ur pct and eat/train properly. i love test it will always be in my cycles. alot of newbes read those charts and get wrong information from it. i think it should be changed asap

[ChefJ]

doesn't it say on the steroid effectivness chart of steroid.com that deca gains are kept a lot more than test

Yes and like I said the chart is extremely outdated.

[absolutebob]

Yes and like I said the chart is extremely outdated.

So who is in charge of it and why isn't it changed? As a newbie to the darkside i have asked several questions on the board and got completely flammed and told to look on steroid.com first and then the educational forum and then blah, blah, blah. So it is all bull ****. I think this needs to changed ASAP.

[SINCE73]

I couldn't agree more!
The one thing that is unpleasant about this board is everyone jumping on a newbie's ass & yelling DO A SEARCH!!!!
And then as directed you do a search & the information provided by the SEARCH COMMITTEE is bunk.
I bet it wouldn't take an hour for few vets/mods to update the effect chart.

[cpt steele]

If you search the front page its all sh!t. If you search the posts and the educational forum its all in there..

[flabbywussy]

I couldn't agree more!
The one thing that is unpleasant about this board is everyone jumping on a newbie's ass & yelling DO A SEARCH!!!!
And then as directed you do a search & the information provided by the SEARCH COMMITTEE is bunk.
I bet it wouldn't take an hour for few vets/mods to update the effect chart.

who cares about the charts , just do a search in the threads.

[joevette]

If I was 47 and done having kids I wouldn't do PCT, I'd just go on HRT. If you do a cycle then switch to a HRT dose of test (100-200mg) and some HGH not only will you not lose any gains you could make some more.

[BIGGEST J]

most of gains from deca is water retention, and with deca u keep the least amount of gains

ya richt.....not!!.......... i think test can give you way more water retention!!
beside's my first cycle ever was deca only.......gaint about 9 kilo's kept 8 (went from 72K to 81K) so.....please.....just..k.ll that sh.t.!!
and indeed i think that with proper pct you can still keep much of ur test gains!

[GrdLock]

My last cycle of test I only lost 3 pounds afterwards, and a small bit of strength. Gain/loss ratio was about 4:1 for me.

[Rickson]

i read that deca's gains from estrogen

Bovee TF, Helsdingen RJ, Rietjens IM, Keijer J, Hoogenboom RL. Rapid yeast estrogen bioassays stably expressing human estrogen receptors alpha and beta, and green fluorescent protein: a comparison of different compounds with both receptor types. J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2004 Jul;91(3):99-109.

If you can post the study I will look at it because I am not sure exactly what it is speaking to in terms of gains through estrogen receptors. I would be interested to read it. What most people have to understand is that deca was often the preferred drug prior to the wide spread use of SERMS and anti-e's because gains were more easily kept then the extreme bloat and loss from test. That is why there is still much outdated info bashing test although it is not warranted in this day and age.

[dirtdawg]

ya richt.....not!!.......... i think test can give you way more water retention!!
beside's my first cycle ever was deca only.......gaint about 9 kilo's kept 8 (went from 72K to 81K) so.....please.....just..k.ll that sh.t.!!
and indeed i think that with proper pct you can still keep much of ur test gains!

so are you suggesting deca only cycles?

[dirtdawg]

If you can post the study I will look at it because I am not sure exactly what it is speaking to in terms of gains through estrogen receptors. I would be interested to read it. What most people have to understand is that deca was often the preferred drug prior to the wide spread use of SERMS and anti-e's because gains were more easily kept then the extreme bloat and loss from test. That is why there is still much outdated info bashing test although it is not warranted in this day and age.

give me a minute, i'll find it

[mark956101957]

Oceans, on behalf of another member in the 40's, you will absolutely love what test does tot eh sex drive. It's like being 17 again. Spontaneous erection city.

I did a Test Prop cycle last summer at the age of 46 along with EQ. Man you talk about erections. All the **** time, it was amazing and at times embarrasing seeing as they happened at inopportune times as well. Test is good. I only lost 4 pounds after that cycle and kept 11.

[BIGGEST J]

so are you suggesting deca only cycles?

NOPE !!!!!!! .........(i think the more cycle's you've done,the more/heavier gear you need),like if you went good on the deca cycle cycle the first time,the second you might trow some test in to give it some extra KICK.....

[BIGGEST J]

give me a minute, i'll find it

[BDTR]

Are people actually suggesting deca gains being longer lasting than test now? What's this world coming to? Not only will test put more weight on you, but you'll keep a higher percentage of it as well.

[indica]

what is "ancillaries"???
And about the steroids profiles....since i started reading this board back in late 2003 the mods have been saying it needs update.....then WHY dont you update???
its a little lol to always say it needs update but never do it.....

[BDTR]

Why are you here? You just made a post in the lounge calling us all babies, now you're complaining about the information here? The profiles take HOURS and HOURS of manpower to research and write, they aren't just simply thrown together haphazardly and hope no one notices. They're coming, we have people working on them everyday and they will be up soon.

what is "ancillaries"???
And about the steroids profiles....since i started reading this board back in late 2003 the mods have been saying it needs update.....then WHY dont you update???
its a little lol to always say it needs update but never do it.....

[powerlifter]

There is no reason why you can't keep just as much with test as long as you have proper ancillaries and a good post cycle therapy plan. At your age you may run into trouble going to many cycles without test.

Words of wisdom - too many sides from deca without the Test

[Mesomorphyl]

what is "ancillaries"???
And about the steroids profiles....since i started reading this board back in late 2003 the mods have been saying it needs update.....then WHY dont you update???
its a little lol to always say it needs update but never do it.....

Why don't you research and write something up??? I call for his ban! Show of hands

[dirtdawg]

sorry bros, i forgot to post it

Bovee TF, Helsdingen RJ, Rietjens IM, Keijer J, Hoogenboom RL.

RIKILT Institute of Food Safety, P.O. Box 230, AE Wageningen 6700, The Netherlands. [email protected]

Previously, we described the construction of a rapid yeast bioassay stably expressing human estrogen receptor (hERalpha) and yeast enhanced green fluorescent protein (yEGFP) in response to estrogens. In the present study, the properties of this assay were further studied by testing a series of estrogenic compounds. Furthermore, a similar assay was developed based on the stable expression of human estrogen receptor beta (hERbeta). When exposed to 17beta-estradiol, the maximum transcriptional activity of the ERbeta cytosensor was only about 40% of the activity observed with ERalpha, but the concentration where half-maximal activation is reached (EC50), was about five times lower. The relative estrogenic potencies (REP), defined as the ratio between the EC50 of 17beta-estradiol and the EC50 of the compound, of the synthetic hormones dienestrol, hexestrol and especially mestranol were higher with ER, while DES was slightly more potent with ERbeta. The gestagens progesterone and medroxyprogesterone-acetate showed no response, whereas the androgen testosterone showed a very weak response. The anabolic agent, 19-nortestosterone showed a clear dose-related response with estrogen receptor but not beta. The phytoestrogens coumestrol, genistein, genistin, daidzein, daidzin and naringenin were relatively more potent with ERbeta. Ranking of the estrogenic potency with ER was: 17beta-estradiol >> 8-prenylnaringenin > coumestrol > zearalenone >> genistein >> genistin > naringenin. The ranking with the ERbeta was: 17beta-estradiol >> coumestrol > genistein > zearalenone > 8-prenylnaringen >> daidzein > naringenin > genistin >> daidzin. The hop estrogen 8-prenylnaringenin is relatively more potent with ERalpha. These data show that the newly developed bioassays are valuable tools for the rapid and high-throughput screening for estrogenic activity. Copyright 2004 Elsevier Lt