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im 3 weeks into my cycle of:
1-12 Test E 500mg pw
1-11 EQ 400mg pw
9-14 Winni 50mg ed
1-14 femara 1.25mg eod
i am going to run HCG at 500iu 2 x per week as of week 4-12
im shooting my test & eq on mondays & thursdays
on what days should i be taking my HCG ??? or doesn't make a difference
i wouldnt even run HCG
you probably don't need it, and you definitely don't need it starting at week 4.
Why would i not need it? i was told by running it this was i would speed up recovery time by having the old fellas ready to go when i start PCT
bump
Because the "old fellas" should already be ready for pct with that short of a cycle. it is used for testicular atrophy....your balls might juss naturally be that small.... dont worry bout it bud. I love that. Im gonna make my gf call my balls the "old fellas" thx buddy.
run it so you can recover faster. Preventing artrophy is better than waiting it to occur and trying to reverse it.
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=22584
i wouldn't run it now, i'd wait for post cycle then run some of that, your gonna have to eat like a horse to get enough calories
A 12 week cycle with test is certainly long enough to warrant the use of HCG I would run low dose mid-cycle, (1000IU E3D, use up the vial) then a week before the end of the test, start up again with 2500 IU EOD, for at least 1 vial, and add clomid a week after starting the HCG That's what my Dr. prescribed (before losing his license, OUCH!)
Do not run HCG during PCT it shuts you down. Get straight facts before giving advice dog. Peace!Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye1877
1000iu and certainly 2500iu of HCG in one dose is too much. Do a search for Swale HCG Protocol.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkinHouston
Geez, I can't believe all the different advice. You've really got to do your research to find out what's up, but Swale's is pretty well respected.
The purpose of HCG is to prevent or reverse shrinkage -if you don't have shrinkage you don't need it but it's hard to believe anyone could do a cycle without some shrinkage. You certainly can use it during your cycle, as Swale recommends, and I always do -otherwise my nuts kill me.
There's also always a termination problem with HCG -it's not used "post PCT" but it IS used "post cycle" -in other words, after the cycle and PRIOR to starting Clomid. I use it both during AND after the cycle, prior to PCT cuz I still get some shrinkage, even with 500iu every 3 days or so. I won't start Clomid til the HCG has me back up to full size and I never go higher than 500iu/day. I'm doing that every day right now for about a week then I start Clomid three days after the last HCG shot (it has a 64 hour life).
I was told to take it aobut 1/2 way through the cycle @ 1,000 iu's every 3 days for a week and then again, the same way, about 4 to 5 weeks after ur last shot.
1000iu is too much. There are to many different opinions in this thread: I will post Swale's Protocol. Stand by.
My PCT Protocol by SWALE
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I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.
Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).
If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.
The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.
I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.
I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).
All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.
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I am a fan of using half way through.... but at 500ius E4D.... the stop it 5 days before clomid... I have al of my boys doing it this way. They all tend to lose 2-4 lbs.... not too bad when the net gain is over 15lbs...