nolvadex and gains

[PunkRawk]

can anyone explain how nolvadex inhibits gains??lowers igf-1.....yada yada yada....i know that......but how...what mechanism??? by itself can it lower igf-1 or by binding to the estro receptors does it keep estro from doing whatever it does to igf-1??

PUNKRAWK

[D00fy]

i think Methuselah will be all over this one heheh

[PunkRawk]

well shit...then what's going on?? i personally think there is no evidence that nolvadex inhibits igf-1....but people say it inhibits gains....how?? it is just a sythetic estrogen

[PunkRawk]

femara it is

[Methuselah]

I've posted on this way to many times so I'm tired of the subject for now. Search on me and see my point of view and supporting articles. Dr. Evil believes that it does inhibit gains, so search on him for the opposing point of view and draw your own conclusion. Let us know what you think after reading the threads. The good new is that Evil and I post in the same threads most often.

Also search on HCG, Nolva, Nolvadex, and Clomid to find the discussions.

Here's one article. I wouldn't call it the bible though. Make up your own mind. There are tons of posts out there on this.

by Bill Roberts - Nolvadex is very comparable to Clomid, behaves in the same manner in all tissues, and is a mixed estrogen agonist/antagonist of the same type as Clomid. The two molecules are also very similar in structure.

It is not correct that Nolvadex reduces levels of estrogen: rather, it blocks estrogen from estrogen receptors and, in those tissues where it is an antagonist, causes the receptor to do nothing.

The claim that Nolvadex reduces gains should not be taken too seriously. The fact is that any number of bodybuilders have made excellent gains while using Nolvadex. The belief that it reduces gains seems to stem from the fact that the scientific literature reports a slight reduction in IGF-1 (individuals using anabolic steroids were not studied though) from use of Nolvadex. Thus, Dan Duchaine reported that it reduces IGF-1 and therefore reduces gains. However, if this effect exists at all, it must be very minor, due to the excellent gains that many have made, and from the fact that no one has noticed any such thing from Clomid, which has the same activity profile.

However, I would not be surprised if one were to tell a steroid user that Clomid reduced his gains, he would immediately become afraid that Clomid reduced his gains (please note that no one I have ever heard of has noticed this.) Not having been so misled, however, he would not conclude this from his results. But if an authority publishes that such an effect occurs, whether it does or not it can become self-fulfilling by biasing the user.

The fact that Nolvadex will reduce water retention may result in the user agreeing that gains are less, since weight gain is less, thus reinforcing the bias.


Bill Roberts later writes this in another article:

'Both tamoxifen and clomiphene are metabolized to other related compounds which can be estrogenic or anti-estrogenic. Both act as estrogens in bone tissue, perhaps after metabolism, which is a very useful property for female patients, for whom these drugs are usually intended. (Otherwise, an anti-estrogen could lead to osteoporosis.) Tamoxifen seems particularly prone to acting as an estrogen in the liver, which may account for reduced IGF-1 levels seen when this drug is taken.'

The fact of the matter is that I haven't seen one study that tests IGF-1 levels while taking Nolva.

[IGF-1]

my guess is since insulin and estrogen go together in producing IGF-1 ,when blocking estrogen u cant produce it any more, now on gains da only gains you wont gain is fat and water

[Methuselah]

Originally posted by IGF-1
my guess is since insulin and estrogen go together in producing IGF-1 ,when blocking estrogen u cant produce it any more, now on gains da only gains you wont gain is fat and water

That would mean, if you subsribe to the theory of clomid binding at the hypothalamus and novla binding only at select receptors (breast tissue and hips), that clomid would inhibit gains and not nolva.

I'm certainly no expert here.

[Methuselah]

Check out these two threads. Pardon my flaming in the second one, but the guy was calling me names and it wasn't on this board.

http://www.anabolicreview.com/vbulle...threadid=14842

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...threadid=21805