Best Equipoise without Test??????

[Cuttup]

2nd cycle coming up. In the Novice cycle #5 section of AR. It suggest

weeks 1-10 500mg Eq per wek
weeks 5-10 Winstrol 50gs ED
Nolva 1-15
clomid PCT.

I believe Im prone to Male pattern Baldness. Because of that Id like to drop the Winstrol. Originally I wanted a Test Prop and Tren cycle but because if this reason,..Tren isnt a good idea for me (even with proscar). My question is,..Id like to add Prop to this. Whats the best cycle to build mass/strength/.......more importantly cut-up!!! How should I run the Prop,..

[Cuttup]

in correspondence with the Equipoise of course.

[SwoleCat]

You can only cut up if your dietary approach supports your goals.

Gear just assists you while you do so.

~SC~

[Cuttup]

You can only cut up if your dietary approach supports your goals.

Gear just assists you while you do so.

~SC~

I couldnt have said it better myself,..nice graphics too.

[wired-up]

yup. diet and cardio will cut you up, not the gear. gear just makes keeping the muscle easier. if you're gonna do eq at 500, run the prop a little higher at 600. shoot ED ideally, but EOD in a pinch.

[Cuttup]

yup. diet and cardio will cut you up, not the gear. gear just makes keeping the muscle easier. if you're gonna do eq at 500, run the prop a little higher at 600. shoot ED ideally, but EOD in a pinch.

how many weeks for the two,...each...

[MrMent1on]

how many weeks for the two,...each...

My suggestion would be
12 for the EQ and
13 for the Test Prop

[stayinstacked]

My suggestion would be
12 for the EQ and
13 for the Test Prop

I agree, but I still dont understand why the hell everybody thinks test NEEDS to be higher than EQ. EQ is one of the few exceptions to that rule. There is nothing wrong with running 500mg/prop a week with 6-800mg/EQ.

[wired-up]

I agree, but I still dont understand why the hell everybody thinks test NEEDS to be higher than EQ. EQ is one of the few exceptions to that rule. There is nothing wrong with running 500mg/prop a week with 6-800mg/EQ.

if you've tried it and it works for you, then great. keep at it. in general though, test is ran higher to keep sexual functions working.

[spooledup]

His current cycle is fine except the nolva. EQ doesn't aromatize to any extent, and winny has anti-estrogen properties of it's own. Save the nolva for post cycle.

Also, I have heard of people having free test levels well in the normal range mid-way through an EQ only.

I really love when someone trys to ruin a cycle like this with test by saying it maintains your sexual function. Pffftt, eq/winny supresses most people very little, and test would DEFINTELY shut you down harder. Your dick will be in much better shape 2-6 weeks after cycle if you DONT use the test.

I recover from oxandrolone cycles in almost no time. I run eq/winny for 10-12 weeks (winny wk3-8)) then hit the var for 6 weeks. Follow up with just a little nolva for 2 weeks. Try it...it's a winner Guaranteed 10lbs keepable LBM if diet and training are even close to being on target. I got 17 last time.

[SYRIANSTALLION]

firstly i disagree with a cycle that does not have test in it.
EQ is not a substitute for TEST. That original cycle is questionable.

Be wary of Tren - to many people it is toxic. I cant use it and have tries several brands over several cycles.

If you do tren (ACE) you must do ED injections so you might as well run prop.

2nd cycle coming up. In the Novice cycle #5 section of AR. It suggest

weeks 1-10 500mg Eq per wek
weeks 5-10 Winstrol 50gs ED
Nolva 1-15
clomid PCT.

I believe Im prone to Male pattern Baldness. Because of that Id like to drop the Winstrol. Originally I wanted a Test Prop and Tren cycle but because if this reason,..Tren isnt a good idea for me (even with proscar). My question is,..Id like to add Prop to this. Whats the best cycle to build mass/strength/.......more importantly cut-up!!! How should I run the Prop,..

[joevette]

His current cycle is fine except the nolva. EQ doesn't aromatize to any extent, and winny has anti-estrogen properties of it's own. Save the nolva for post cycle.

Also, I have heard of people having free test levels well in the normal range mid-way through an EQ only.

I really love when someone trys to ruin a cycle like this with test by saying it maintains your sexual function. Pffftt, eq/winny supresses most people very little, and test would DEFINTELY shut you down harder. Your dick will be in much better shape 2-6 weeks after cycle if you DONT use the test.

I recover from oxandrolone cycles in almost no time. I run eq/winny for 10-12 weeks (winny wk3-8)) then hit the var for 6 weeks. Follow up with just a little nolva for 2 weeks. Try it...it's a winner Guaranteed 10lbs keepable LBM if diet and training are even close to being on target. I got 17 last time.

EQ/Winny may suppress people very little, but only because they are WORTHLESS. I know you don't like test, but for real muscle and strength gains test is best (with the exception of tren). 17lbs of lbm from 10 weeks of EQ, I don't think so.

[Cuttup]

My suggestion would be
12 for the EQ and
13 for the Test Prop

what about 10 weeks eq
12 weeks Prop
4-12 weeks 30mg Ed Turinabol?

[Cuttup]

bump for cycle critique.

[Cuttup]

another BUMP!!!!!

[BIG TEXAN]

If this is only your second cycle I'd go along the lines of
Week 1-12
Test E. 500mg a week (or prop at 100mg ED or EOD)
Eq 400mg a week

with PCT

This witha proper diet and workout planned you'll achieve some good goals.

[Cuttup]

If this is only your second cycle I'd go along the lines of
Week 1-12
Test E. 500mg a week (or prop at 100mg ED or EOD)
Eq 400mg a week

with PCT

This witha proper diet and workout planned you'll achieve some good goals.

sounds good. i definately have to go with prop,..i swole up like i was pregnant on Test E. fat ankles,..fat rolls on my neck,..crazy. Id like to stick with prop,..50mg's ed or 100 eod.cool so

weeks 1 -12 Prop 100eod
Eq 400 mgs per week..HOW MANY weeks ,..i was thinking 10.
Id like to through OT in the last 8 weeks. what do you think?

[50%Natural]

Why are you so dead set on eq? Why not try some prop on its own? You can run 100mg eod for like 10 weeks. Ive had a couple friends do that for their first cycle and they gained 15 lb-20 mostly lean pounds. However, I will agree with spooled up in regards to the eq/winny combo from experience. If you can't speak on experience, then your opinion is next to worthless as far as I'm concerned.

[Cuttup]

the properties of Eq seems promising. I ran Enanthate my first cycle by itself,..gained 28lgs. Alot of water and temp weight gain,..but decent. Eq with add quality and hardness. why do you oppose the EQ?

Why are you so dead set on eq? Why not try some prop on its own? You can run 100mg eod for like 10 weeks. Ive had a couple friends do that for their first cycle and they gained 15 lb-20 mostly lean pounds. However, I will agree with spooled up in regards to the eq/winny combo from experience. If you can't speak on experience, then your opinion is next to worthless as far as I'm concerned.

[BIG TEXAN]

I personally don't like winny.... I like Eq for bulking actually.... deca is good but I have made good solid( meaning less bloat and all) with just eq and prop. All depends on how each person reacts and what they like really.

[Cuttup]

I personally don't like winny.... I like Eq for bulking actually.... deca is good but I have made good solid( meaning less bloat and all) with just eq and prop. All depends on how each person reacts and what they like really.

OTin the last 8 weeks or first 8 weeks?

[wired-up]

sounds good. i definately have to go with prop,..i swole up like i was pregnant on Test E. fat ankles,..fat rolls on my neck,..crazy.

i blew up on test enan also. at least i thought it was the enan. i'm using test enan and tren enan for a cutter right now. i'm getting pretty lean with them. so i don't think it's the ester that makes a difference. it's diet and cardio. i know when i blew up last time, my diet wasn't squeaky clean. this time it is and i'm doing cardio 5 days a week. i'll never do another cycle without cardio. it's not worth the fat you put on for an extra 1 or 2 lbs of muscle.

[Cuttup]

i blew up on test enan also. at least i thought it was the enan. i'm using test enan and tren enan for a cutter right now. i'm getting pretty lean with them. so i don't think it's the ester that makes a difference. it's diet and cardio. i know when i blew up last time, my diet wasn't squeaky clean. this time it is and i'm doing cardio 5 days a week. i'll never do another cycle without cardio. it's not worth the fat you put on for an extra 1 or 2 lbs of muscle.

yeah,.my cardio wasnt up to parla either. Its just everywhere you look,..enanthate and cyp are said to have alot of water retention,..and im a sucker for water retention,..through some carbs in there,.and im a walking spunge! prop is low. Id prefer enanthate over prop just because of inj's twice per week. On the other hand,.prop I hear give you better strength gains. How much enanthate are you taking per week now....?

[wired-up]

yeah,.my cardio wasnt up to parla either. Its just everywhere you look,..enanthate and cyp are said to have alot of water retention,..and im a sucker for water retention,..through some carbs in there,.and im a walking spunge! prop is low. Id prefer enanthate over prop just because of inj's twice per week. On the other hand,.prop I hear give you better strength gains. How much enanthate are you taking per week now....?

i'm doing 400mg test enan and 300mg tren enan. a lot of people say that cyp and enan cause more water retention. i've use prop also, and after this go around, at least right now, i'd have to say the enan causing water retention is a load of crap. diet and cardio are key. i've done enan for bulking and cutting. true, you can put on a lot of fat with it, but you can loose a lot of fat too. like i said, crazy bulking cycles with lots of fat gain for faster muscle gain just aren't worth it. you're putting a lot of undue stress on your body. slow and steady for me from now on. body building is a lifelong thing. why do you want to reach the finish line after 6 months?

[50%Natural]

the properties of Eq seems promising. I ran Enanthate my first cycle by itself,..gained 28lgs. Alot of water and temp weight gain,..but decent. Eq with add quality and hardness. why do you oppose the EQ?

oh, don't get me wrong, I love eq for sure. Prop will add quality and hardness to, but it is much more anabolic but it just sounds like you are one sided on the issue....

[dirtymike]

Can EQ be taken alone or does it need to be run with test?

[Angel of death]

Should use test, highly reccomended

[dirtymike]

Is it the same deal as Deca?

[Deezuhl]

EQ/Winny may suppress people very little, but only because they are WORTHLESS. I know you don't like test, but for real muscle and strength gains test is best (with the exception of tren). 17lbs of lbm from 10 weeks of EQ, I don't think so.

I wouldnt say worthless if stacked properly its worth it for sure. I have seen with my own eyes a friend put on over 20lbs lean mass with eq and winny for 10 weeks. the guy is well below 10% bf too and his size looks like he doubled so when he says 20lbs I tend to beleive him. everyones genetic makeup is different and some people react better to one thing or another. everyone here seems to get caught in reading something over and over and just takes it to be true cause 1000 people all say the same thing even if its wrong. i myself always run test. thats just me.

[spooledup]

I wouldnt say worthless if stacked properly its worth it for sure. I have seen with my own eyes a friend put on over 20lbs lean mass with eq and winny for 10 weeks. the guy is well below 10% bf too and his size looks like he doubled so when he says 20lbs I tend to beleive him. everyones genetic makeup is different and some people react better to one thing or another. everyone here seems to get caught in reading something over and over and just takes it to be true cause 1000 people all say the same thing even if its wrong. i myself always run test. thats just me.

Thank you Mike, very well put. For me test is worthless and EQ works great. But you don't see me telling everyone that you MUST use EQ.

People who say "no test no cycle" are truly the most ignorant on this board.

[50%Natural]

Should use test, highly reccomended

why? Ive used eq as my base in several cycles. I wouldn't highly reccomend it. Only thing I would do is run some tribulus or proviron with it but a vast majority of the people out there aren't going to notice any libido loses on an eq only cycle. Are you speaking from experience, or just something else you read?

[50%Natural]

Thank you Mike, very well put. For me test is worthless and EQ works great. But you don't see me telling everyone that you MUST use EQ.

People who say "no test no cycle" are truly the most ignorant on this board.

no doubt, so many thread parrots here

[Deezuhl]

no doubt, so many thread parrots here

I do it myself all the time. I always recommend test with any cycle but if you dont respond great to it then you have to experiment with something else. this my 1st time using EQ, tren and prop. I have no idea what it will do for me until i try it. what it does for me it may not do for someone else. we are all chemically made up different. every single one of us.

[Cuttup]

I do it myself all the time. I always recommend test with any cycle but if you dont respond great to it then you have to experiment with something else. this my 1st time using EQ, tren and prop. I have no idea what it will do for me until i try it. what it does for me it may not do for someone else. we are all chemically made up different. every single one of us.

i agree,..if one has too many sides from Test, he should run something like EQ, VAR, Winny

[BUYLONGTERM]

I agree, but I still dont understand why the hell everybody thinks test NEEDS to be higher than EQ. EQ is one of the few exceptions to that rule. There is nothing wrong with running 500mg/prop a week with 6-800mg/EQ.

Agreed!! EQ does NOT have to be run at a lower dose than your TEST. 2nd, Most people will tell you that running EQ any highter than 500mg is a waste.

I personally LOVE Test and I would Never run a cycle without it. PERIOD. Thats just me.

[Cuttup]

Agreed!! EQ does NOT have to be run at a lower dose than your TEST. 2nd, Most people will tell you that running EQ any highter than 500mg is a waste.

I personally LOVE Test and I would Never run a cycle without it. PERIOD. Thats just me.

let me ask you,..how is 400mg per week and 400 of EQ per week....this should be cool correct. The reason people run there test higher than their stack is to prevent the ole "Limp Jimmy" and to avoid a even harsher shutdown.crash...but EQ doesnt kill the libido or test production as much as others. This is my first time runing EQ, just want to make sure i have this down packed!

[roidsrgreat]

i was jsut courious to how this cycle looks to yall

week 1-11 eq at 400mg
1-12 test e 500mg
8-12 winny 50mg ed

[rfbulletdude]

Thank you Mike, very well put. For me test is worthless and EQ works great. But you don't see me telling everyone that you MUST use EQ.

People who say "no test no cycle" are truly the most ignorant on this board.

spooledup what would you suggest for a first time cycle of EQ w/ either primo and/or anavar. the only thing i'm concerned about is a complete shutdown of the hpta. is this a possibility? and if so, what precautions should i take to minimize this? only if there is no alternative will i result to taking 250mg/week of test. thanks.

[Cuttup]

bump for EQ being ran lower than the Test Dosage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!