Which cycle is better?

[smokeydabear]

I am planning my second cycle and this is what i have so far:

test enanthate 500mg/week - weeks 1-11
deca 400mg/week - weeks 1-10
dbol 20mg/ed - weeks 1-4

Is there anything I should change about this?

I was considering taking cypionate as opposed to enanthate for this cycle. My first cycle consisted of 500mg/week test enanthate for 10 weeks.

[GOATNUTS]

run the test to 12 weeks and bump the dbol to around 30-40mg ed

[damiongage]

run the test to 12 weeks and bump the dbol to around 30-40mg ed

yep.

[big_mike]

run the test to 12 weeks and bump the dbol to around 30-40mg ed

yes...bump the dbol higher...and also keep the enanthate..make sure you have all anti-es on hand..

[smokeydabear]

My friend said that 20mg of dbol/ed for 4 weeks is plenty since I have never taken it before. What kinda results do you think I would see on the cycle I mentioned above?

[damiongage]

My friend said that 20mg of dbol/ed for 4 weeks is plenty since I have never taken it before. What kinda results do you think I would see on the cycle I mentioned above?

I think your friend is wrong.and 20mg ed is a waste

[big_mike]

My friend said that 20mg of dbol/ed for 4 weeks is plenty since I have never taken it before. What kinda results do you think I would see on the cycle I mentioned above?

trust me bro...at least 35-40 mg...whether or not you have taken it before is irrelevant.

[smokeydabear]

I think your friend is wrong.and 20mg ed is a waste

What would be good for this kind of cycle? 40mg/ed? I just dont wanna take TOO much for my first time on dbol

[big_mike]

What would be good for this kind of cycle? 40mg/ed? I just dont wanna take TOO much for my first time on dbol

40 mg ed is good..for only 4 weeks tho..it's just to kickstart your cycle. It's all water weight though..and you will have a moon-face.

[smokeydabear]

40 mg ed is good..for only 4 weeks tho..it's just to kickstart your cycle. It's all water weight though..and you will have a moon-face.

What u mean by moon face? bloating?

[damiongage]

40 a day is perfect for me....

[big_mike]

What u mean by moon face? bloating?

yes..that entire cycle will make you look puffy like a marshmallow...make sure you have all anti es and AI's so you can limit bloating. If you are bulking...then for sure you will bloat.

[smokeydabear]

yes..that entire cycle will make you look puffy like a marshmallow...make sure you have all anti es and AI's so you can limit bloating. If you are bulking...then for sure you will bloat.

If I were to remove dbol from this cycle what would be something else really good to stack on this cycle? I just wanna look good and not really bloated.

[damiongage]

var...if you can aford it

tbol...if you can get it

[big_mike]

If I were to remove dbol from this cycle what would be something else really good to stack on this cycle? I just wanna look good and not really bloated.

I would drop the dbol...and use prop throughout your cycle. I would stack anavar with it...and I would also add tren. That is what my cycle will look like starting next week. I don't like holding water..so my choices are biased. I like adding lean slabs of meat to my body while sculpting at the same time. Test, Deca, and dbol is for a mean bulking cycle where you eat eat and gain gain..

[smokeydabear]

I would drop the dbol...and use prop throughout your cycle. I would stack anavar with it...and I would also add tren. That is what my cycle will look like starting next week. I don't like holding water..so my choices are biased. I like adding lean slabs of meat to my body while sculpting at the same time. Test, Deca, and dbol is for a mean bulking cycle where you eat eat and gain gain..

How many mg of var would be good? and for how many weeks? Also, I dont think I can afford to get any tren after getting the deca and enanthate.. but i think i might be able to get some prop.

[big_mike]

How many mg of var would be good? and for how many weeks? Also, I dont think I can afford to get any tren after getting the deca and enanthate.. but i think i might be able to get some prop.

Kickstart your cycle with prop then...weeks 1-4 until your enanthate comes in. As for var..50 mg is good imo...im running 60..but im not financially limited. Dbol just doesn't really do any good besides keeping you content till the test kicks in...prop is a much better kickstarter imo. What are your goals for this cycle?

[insanepump621]

imo this would be a bit better and this is similar to my next cycle week 1-4 test prop 100mg eod week 1-12 test e 500mg week 1-10 deca 400mg a week you can also run prop after you run the test e its one of the better ways to go into pct

[smokeydabear]

Kickstart your cycle with prop then...weeks 1-4 until your enanthate comes in. As for var..50 mg is good imo...im running 60..but im not financially limited. Dbol just doesn't really do any good besides keeping you content till the test kicks in...prop is a much better kickstarter imo. What are your goals for this cycle?

Goals are to put on LEAN muscle mass... and lots of it.

[big_mike]

Goals are to put on LEAN muscle mass... and lots of it.

Then definetely just run test prop and anavar...it's a great way to put on some lean mass...i'd leave out the deca..adding tren will make a NIGHT and DAY difference if you can do it...if i were you..I'd wait a little bit to buy tren and run prop for 10 weeks, tren for 8..and anavar for 10..it will be the sickest cycle you will ever do! I can't wait for mine to start..

[sauceman19]

IMO i think the 20mg ed for the dbol would be fine.. the test e and the deca well do the job nicely, so if he wants to stay low with the dbol and he doesnt want the bloat, why not? also i know a few people who have made good gains with only 20-25mg ed of dbol.. but then again test prop doesnt sound like a bad idea either.. but im just tryin to say, IMO 20mg dbol could work

[big_mike]

IMO i think the 20mg ed for the dbol would be fine.. the test e and the deca well do the job nicely, so if he wants to stay low with the dbol and he doesnt want the bloat, why not? also i know a few people who have made good gains with only 20-25mg ed of dbol.. but then again test prop doesnt sound like a bad idea either.. but im just tryin to say, IMO 20mg dbol could work

prop is a much better kick start. Dbol tends to make one gain nothing but water. I know from experience. It's simply not worth the sides..especially if you can run prop. 20 mg of dbol is also a waste..doesn't do much in comparison to 40 mg ed. its like the difference between 20mg of anavar and 40 mg of anavar...night and day.

[cFIRES670]

How much tren per day or eod would be good to use, im thinkin about the same cycle

[big_mike]

How much tren per day or eod would be good to use, im thinkin about the same cycle

75 mg ed is good...don't hijack the thread!

[smokeydabear]

Then definetely just run test prop and anavar...it's a great way to put on some lean mass...i'd leave out the deca..adding tren will make a NIGHT and DAY difference if you can do it...if i were you..I'd wait a little bit to buy tren and run prop for 10 weeks, tren for 8..and anavar for 10..it will be the sickest cycle you will ever do! I can't wait for mine to start..

Ok you saying to run the prop and enanthate for 10 weeks? Also, I thought I should take anavar at the end of my cycle, like last 4 weeks.

[saluu]

or 150 eod of tren is good to go as well. dbol go 30 20mg too low and 40 too much bloat. peace

[big_mike]

Ok you saying to run the prop and enanthate for 10 weeks? Also, I thought I should take anavar at the end of my cycle, like last 4 weeks.

anavar needs to be used at the MINIMUM 6 weeks..but the general is 8. Run test e for 12 weeks..prop for the first four..

[smokeydabear]

anavar needs to be used at the MINIMUM 6 weeks..but the general is 8. Run test e for 12 weeks..prop for the first four..

ok so this is what im looking at right now for my cycle.

weeks 1-12 500mg/week test enan
weeks 1-4 100mg/EOD test prop

now i am going to have to take the anavar OR the tren, cuz of financial situation at the moment. what would be best to throw in the mix?

[big_mike]

ok so this is what im looking at right now for my cycle.

weeks 1-12 500mg/week test enan
weeks 1-4 100mg/EOD test prop

now i am going to have to take the anavar OR the tren, cuz of financial situation at the moment. what would be best to throw in the mix?

TREN!

[smokeydabear]

TREN!

Thats what I thought. How much is ideal to take of tren? 150mg/eod?

[big_mike]

Thats what I thought. How much is ideal to take of tren? 150mg/eod?

thats good..but more stable blood levels with 75 mg ed..

[cFIRES670]

how much u planning on spending on tren? or how many bottles total?

[smokeydabear]

thats good..but more stable blood levels with 75 mg ed..

Hmm.. just trying to figure out how much this will cost me. How long do you think I could get away with running the tren? Cuz my guy doesnt hook up tren for that cheap.

[BASK8KACE]

I am planning my second cycle and this is what i have so far:


test enanthate 500mg/week - weeks 1-11
deca 400mg/week - weeks 1-10
dbol 20mg/ed - weeks 1-4

Is there anything I should change about this?

I was considering taking cypionate as opposed to enanthate for this cycle. My first cycle consisted of 500mg/week test enanthate for 10 weeks.

The cycle is fine as you've written it--as a basic cycle stack. It would be better if we knew more about you (your stats, lifting experience, cycle experience, etcetera). You may have a few people claim that more gear is better, but I've seen so many loud mouths claim that more gear is better, yet some of the loudest of them are only 10 pounds heavier than I am--they've done far more gear and far more cycles than I and still don't have any real life, first hand proof that more gear is better. I have proof that less is more (see my pics, that show my whole body--not me hiding behind clothes and obstructed by other things in the pic). Personally, I'd suggest lower amounts of gear, but there's really nothing wrong with your cycle as you've planned it.

Stick with the cycle you have here, focus on your diet, rest and training intensity and you will grow well.

Best of luck!

[smokeydabear]

The cycle is fine as you've written it--as a basic cycle stack. It would be better if we knew more about you (your stats, lifting experience, cycle experience, etcetera). You may have a few people claim that more gear is better, but I've seen so many loud mouths claim that more gear is better, yet some of the loudest of them are only 10 pounds heavier than I am--they've done far more gear and far more cycles and still don't have any real life, first hand proof. I do (see my pics, that show my whole body--not me hiding behind clothes and obstructed by other things in the pic). Personally, I'd suggest lower amounts of gear, but there's really nothing wrong with your cycle as you've planned it.

Stick with the cycle you have here, focus on your diet, rest and training intensity and you will grow well.

Best of luck!

Ok.. my stats are as followed. 23 years old, 5'9" 180 lbs. I just finished up with my first cycle of test enanthate 500mg/week for 10 weeks. Im not sure how much bf% i got, but its probably about average if that means anything. If I were to stick with that original cycle, what would ALL necessary precautions to prevent bloating? I.e. liquidex, nolvadex... etc ??

[BASK8KACE]

First...

Big_mike,
I got your PM, I was not referring to you, bro. I don't even know you.


Now back to the thread...

Ok.. my stats are as followed. 23 years old, 5'9" 180 lbs. I just finished up with my first cycle of test enanthate 500mg/week for 10 weeks. Im not sure how much bf% i got, but its probably about average if that means anything. If I were to stick with that original cycle, what would ALL necessary precautions to prevent bloating? I.e. liquidex, nolvadex... etc ??

Smokey, how much did you gain on your first cycle and how much did you hold on to after 5 months off cycle?

If you lost most of what you gained or didn't gain much, then you might consider working on your diet before you think about adding more gear.

This has been said a thousand times, but everyone thinks they can ignore this fact and still beat the system...they CAN'T. What's the fact that people try to ignore? Here it is: if you don't PERFECT your diet, then you aren't going to grow well no matter how much gear you shove in you.

The cycle you've chosen is a clasic, basic stack. It should work well. But you shouldn't launch into that cycle until you've spent at least 3 months eating correctly--about 3,000-4,000 calories per day of clean, healthy food. After you have established a routine of eating and resting correclty, then start your cycle. Learning how to manage your time to allow for 5-6 small meas per day takes time and needs to be established as a HABIT before you cycle again.

[smokeydabear]

First...

Big_mike,
I got your PM, I was not referring to you, bro. I don't even know you.


Now back to the thread...



Smokey, how much did you gain on your first cycle and how much did you hold on to after 5 months off cycle?

If you lost most of what you gained or didn't gain much, then you might consider working on your diet before you think about adding more gear.

This has been said a thousand times, but everyone thinks they can ignore this fact and still beat the system...they CAN'T. What's the fact that people try to ignore? Here it is: if you don't PERFECT your diet, then you aren't going to grow well no matter how much gear you shove in you.

The cycle you've chosen is a clasic, basic stack. It should work well. But you shouldn't launch into that cycle until you've spent at least 3 months eating correctly--about 3,000-4,000 calories per day of clean, healthy food. After you have established a routine of eating and resting correclty, then start your cycle. Learning how to manage your time to allow for 5-6 small meas per day takes time and needs to be established as a HABIT before you cycle again.

I agree 100%, diet is HUGE! I gained about 15 lbs on my first cycle of test enanthate, and my diet was only decent. I have been working on a proper diet as of late and have gotten into a much better eating habit. My only concern is what a really good second cycle for gaining a LOT of lean muscle. Im stuck between these 2 options:

weeks 1-11 test enanthate 500mg/week
weeks 1-10 deca 400mg/week
weeks 1-4 test prop 100mg/EOD

or

weeks 1-11 test enanthate 500mg/week
weeks 1-10 deca 400mg/week
weeks 1-4 dbol 40mg/EOD

[BASK8KACE]

I agree 100%, diet is HUGE! I gained about 15 lbs on my first cycle of test enanthate, and my diet was only decent. I have been working on a proper diet as of late and have gotten into a much better eating habit. My only concern is what a really good second cycle for gaining a LOT of lean muscle. Im stuck between these 2 options:

weeks 1-11 test enanthate 500mg/week
weeks 1-10 deca 400mg/week
weeks 1-4 test prop 100mg/EOD

or

weeks 1-11 test enanthate 500mg/week
weeks 1-10 deca 400mg/week
weeks 1-4 dbol 40mg/EOD

I choose the second one.

There is no reason why you need stick yourself with prop for 4 weeks just to jump start a cycle. If you're so concerned about loosing a few insignificant weeks at the beginning of the cycle, then stretch the cycle out for 15 weeks.

People who aren't competing and are not trying to get ready for a movie or other public event within a short timeframe should not waste time rushing a cycle by front loading or "jump-starting" a cycle. I think it's a waste of money for what essentially turns out to be 1 (maybe 2) extra weeks of growth. If someone claims that they can gain more than a 1-2 LEAN pounds in those first 1-4 weeks of a cycle, then I'd toss them in the basket with all the other loud-mouths who claim to gain 50 lbs in one cycle but--OOPS!--leave out the fact that 90% is fat and water gain.

Save your money, drop the "kick-start" and use the extra money to lengthen your cycle (if you really think the extra 2 weeks of growth is really going to make a difference). Besides, wouldn't you want to have more time to grow at the end of a cycle when you're at your strongest than at the beginning of a cylcle when you're at your weakest? Go figure.

[big_mike]

I choose the second one.

There is no reason why you need stick yourself with prop for 4 weeks just to jump start a cycle. If you're so concerned about loosing a few insignificant weeks at the beginning of the cycle, then stretch the cycle out for 15 weeks.

People who aren't competing and are not trying to get ready for a movie or other public event within a short timeframe should not waste time rushing a cycle by front loading or "jump-starting" a cycle. I think it's a waste of money for what essentially turns out to be 1 (maybe 2) extra weeks of growth. If someone claims that they can gain more than a 1-2 LEAN pounds in those first 1-4 weeks of a cycle, then I'd toss them in the basket with all the other loud-mouths who claim to gain 50 lbs in one cycle but--OOPS!--leave out the fact that 90% is fat and water gain.

Save your money, drop the "kick-start" and use the extra money to lengthen your cycle (if you really think the extra 2 weeks of growth is really going to make a difference). Besides, wouldn't you want to have more time to grow at the end of a cycle when you're at your strongest than at the beginning of a cylcle when you're at your weakest? Go figure.

Bask8kace is right...either way..you might decide not to lengthen your cycle...my gains slowed down to a screeching halt around week 8 or so...therefore my first and only cycle lasted 10 weeks..(test & dbol)..you might find the same...or maybe you could react differently..

[BASK8KACE]

Good point, big_mike.

Yes, the body approaches homeostasis (equalibrium) around the 2 month mark. If you stay on a long cycle past 10 weeks, you may have to increase your doses--SLIGHTLY--to continue growing, OR take a break between cycles to allow your body to adjust to lower levels of steroids and then head back into the cycle.

There's a post about this homeostasis issue. Search the forums using the the words "University of Maryland" in the title of the post (originally posted by me).

Some people also think gains halt partly due to the fact that people forget to increase thier calories steadily throughout a cycle as they grow.

There are many theories