Why NOT to take TEST in every cycle

[TheMindOfRoss]

Here at ANABOLIC -REVIEW, it is a RELIGIOUS belief that TEST must be the BASE of every cycle. THIS IS INCORRECT.

Why NOT to incorporate TEST into EVERY CYCLE:

1.) Testosterone has a PROFOUND impact on your HPTA--CLINICALLY demonstrated to be MORE disturbing to the endocrine system than other anabolics when used alone. Testosterone supplementation reduced the body's own testosterone production by nearly 100%, while even Dianabol used in higher dosages, only caused a 60% decrease in testosterone production. Therefore, using a moderate testosterone dosage while ON A CYCLE of a mild anabolic such as primobolan or oxandrolone (even EQ) to COMBAT lack of LIBIDO, ect, will only make it HARDER to maintain your gains POST CYCLE. You are eliminating sexual sides, but doing so at the cost of your NATURAL TEST PRODUCTION.

2.) Testosterone has BAD SIDE EFFECTS IF YOU ARE GENETICALLY PREDISPOSED. Hairloss, Gyno, and prostate difficulties are high risks for many people on this board. Some are able to do test without much negative effect, while others are DEVESTATED by side effects.

3.) QUALITY OF GAINS. Testosterone causes a RAPID increase in body mass, much of which is lost upon cessation of cycle. This is due largely to the fact that testosterone aromatizes VERY easily, causing noticable water retention in most individuals. Using non-aromatizing steroids ELIMINATES the possibility of exposing your body to SUPRAPHYSIOLOGICAL levels of ESTROGEN, and it also reduces the amount of weight you lose post cycle. Furthermore, because of HOW MUCH TESTOSTERONE affects the HPTA, maintaining gains POST cycle can be very difficult, even with clomid therapy.

Any questions?

[TRICK]

Here at ANABOLIC -REVIEW, it is a RELIGIOUS belief that TEST must be the BASE of every cycle. THIS IS INCORRECT.

Why NOT to incorporate TEST into EVERY CYCLE:

1.) Testosterone has a PROFOUND impact on your HPTA--CLINICALLY demonstrated to be MORE disturbing to the endocrine system than other anabolics when used alone. Testosterone supplementation reduced the body's own testosterone production by nearly 100%, while even Dianabol used in higher dosages, only caused a 60% decrease in testosterone production. Therefore, using a moderate testosterone dosage while ON A CYCLE of a mild anabolic such as primobolan or oxandrolone (even EQ) to COMBAT lack of LIBIDO, ect, will only make it HARDER to maintain your gains POST CYCLE. You are eliminating sexual sides, but doing so at the cost of your NATURAL TEST PRODUCTION.

2.) Testosterone has BAD SIDE EFFECTS IF YOU ARE GENETICALLY PREDISPOSED. Hairloss, Gyno, and prostate difficulties are high risks for many people on this board. Some are able to do test without much negative effect, while others are DEVESTATED by side effects.

3.) QUALITY OF GAINS. Testosterone causes a RAPID increase in body mass, much of which is lost upon cessation of cycle. This is due largely to the fact that testosterone aromatizes VERY easily, causing noticable water retention in most individuals. Using non-aromatizing steroids ELIMINATES the possibility of exposing your body to SUPRAPHYSIOLOGICAL levels of ESTROGEN, and it also reduces the amount of weight you lose post cycle. Furthermore, because of HOW MUCH TESTOSTERONE affects the HPTA, maintaining gains POST cycle can be very difficult, even with clomid therapy.

Any questions?

NOPE! Thread closed.

[TheMindOfRoss]

I want to make sure that NEWBIES have the opportunity to DECIDE which cycle is right for them, instead of being misled into believing there is ONLY ONE WAY.

[Aboot]

I want to make sure that NEWBIES have the opportunity to DECIDE which cycle is right for them, instead of being misled into believing there is ONLY ONE WAY.

While I disagree with your asertion, I agree that everyone should do their research and come to their own conclusions.

[Honest Abe]

go ahead man and rock on with your limp dyck!

[Swifto]

As Testosterone is the primary key (along with protein) in muscle building, I believe it is a good place to start for a 1st time user.

[TheMindOfRoss]

Aboot...That is very fair..thats what these boards are all about...

[TheMindOfRoss]

Honest Abe...id rather have a LIMP DICK ON CYCLE...then have a LIMP DICK OFF CYCLE....I always have my SEX DRIVE after PCT...I understand( and ACCEPT) that my sex drive will be reduced WHILE ON CYCLE! But most of you guys, CAN NOT ACCEPT THAT, so rather than dealing with Erection problems, you shoot up some TEST. YEA, youll have a HARD dick ON CYCLE....but good luck keeping your gains after PCT....

BE OPEN MINDED....

[Swifto]

Please advise me on a mass cycle for a 1st timer using any kind of AS?

Dosages and duration included please.

[TRICK]

I want to make sure that NEWBIES have the opportunity to DECIDE which cycle is right for them, instead of being misled into believing there is ONLY ONE WAY.

how can a grown man be misled? most opinions on this board are based on personal experience. i myself researched a.a.s. on a multitude of sites before i even knew this board existed. you will find cycle lengths and types of all kinds from six week oral only to joevettes 35 week smasher on this board. at the end of the day its up to the individual. i've read your posts and i think the negative feedback you're getting is partially based on the fact that you're ALWAYS YELLING and SCREAMING YOUR POINTS USING ALL CAPS AND TONS OF THESE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so while you bring an interesting view you're not that personable bro. this IS an open forum, but honestly you act like a know it all.

[locutus]

Honest Abe...id rather have a LIMP DICK ON CYCLE...then have a LIMP DICK OFF CYCLE....I always have my SEX DRIVE after PCT...I understand( and ACCEPT) that my sex drive will be reduced WHILE ON CYCLE! But most of you guys, CAN NOT ACCEPT THAT, so rather than dealing with Erection problems, you shoot up some TEST. YEA, youll have a HARD dick ON CYCLE....but good luck keeping your gains after PCT....

BE OPEN MINDED....

Thanks for posting you contrasting views, it gives me a lot to think about before doing my first cycle. I am planning on using the Test/Deca bulking cycle but I want to make sure I’m doing the right compounds for my cycle. Can I ask you how many cycles you have done and what compounds you used? It would seem that you have a lot of very solid studying under your belt but I would really be interested in how you used that info to achieve the body weight you desired. Did the roids you used give you want you wanted as far as muscle? From what I am reading above, you didn’t even use Prop with your other compounds, is that right?

[TheMindOfRoss]

here is on I just posted on another thread:

Here is a 6 weeker that I LOVE!

Week 1: 15mgs D-bol/30mgs VAR
Week 2: 15mgs D-bol/35mgs VAR
Week 3: 20mgs D-bol/40mgs VAR
Week 4: 15mgs D-bol/40ngs VAR
Week 5: 35mgs VAR
Week 6: 30mgs VAR

***************************
1.) LOW DOSE CYCLE- With the compounds used, at the doses indicated, HPTA impact will be only minimal. Other sides such as gyno, will be SUBSTANTIALLY REDUCED AS WELL.

2.) CYCLE DURATION- Due to the short duration of the cycle, gains will be MUCH EASIER to maintain after PCT!
****************************
I keep Arimidex on hand, but with such LOW D-BOL doses you will be SHOCKED at how LEAN you stay! Also, ALMOST NO SHUTDOWN at all! I begin Tribex (tribulus) 2 weeks prior to Clomid treatment, as this substantially increases the efficiacy of clomid--as there is already an existing LH/FSH signal being modulated.

You should put on 10-15 KEEPABLE.

[locutus]

here is on I just posted on another thread:

Here is a 6 weeker that I LOVE!

Week 1: 15mgs D-bol/30mgs VAR
Week 2: 15mgs D-bol/35mgs VAR
Week 3: 20mgs D-bol/40mgs VAR
Week 4: 15mgs D-bol/40ngs VAR
Week 5: 35mgs VAR
Week 6: 30mgs VAR

***************************
1.) LOW DOSE CYCLE- With the compounds used, at the doses indicated, HPTA impact will be only minimal. Other sides such as gyno, will be SUBSTANTIALLY REDUCED AS WELL.

2.) CYCLE DURATION- Due to the short duration of the cycle, gains will be MUCH EASIER to maintain after PCT!
****************************
I keep Arimidex on hand, but with such LOW D-BOL doses you will be SHOCKED at how LEAN you stay! Also, ALMOST NO SHUTDOWN at all! I begin Tribex (tribulus) 2 weeks prior to Clomid treatment, as this substantially increases the efficiacy of clomid--as there is already an existing LH/FSH signal being modulated.

You should put on 10-15 KEEPABLE.

So you have done this cycle yourself, had minimal side effects and gained 10-15lbs on this?

[IronReload04]

ok mindofross, what is your view on the "your body needs testosterone to function properly" theory which i am a believer in. Nobody through that out there yet, so i guess i will

[Swifto]

here is on I just posted on another thread:

Here is a 6 weeker that I LOVE!

Week 1: 15mgs D-bol/30mgs VAR
Week 2: 15mgs D-bol/35mgs VAR
Week 3: 20mgs D-bol/40mgs VAR
Week 4: 15mgs D-bol/40ngs VAR
Week 5: 35mgs VAR
Week 6: 30mgs VAR

***************************
1.) LOW DOSE CYCLE- With the compounds used, at the doses indicated, HPTA impact will be only minimal. Other sides such as gyno, will be SUBSTANTIALLY REDUCED AS WELL.

2.) CYCLE DURATION- Due to the short duration of the cycle, gains will be MUCH EASIER to maintain after PCT!
****************************
I keep Arimidex on hand, but with such LOW D-BOL doses you will be SHOCKED at how LEAN you stay! Also, ALMOST NO SHUTDOWN at all! I begin Tribex (tribulus) 2 weeks prior to Clomid treatment, as this substantially increases the efficiacy of clomid--as there is already an existing LH/FSH signal being modulated.

You should put on 10-15 KEEPABLE.

An "ORAL ONLY CYCLE"!......I rest my case.........

Please can you also give me an example of a "4 week, 5 week and 6 week" cycle you advice using injectables?

[TheMindOfRoss]

Your body should never go extensive amounts of time without any testosterone production! When you are cycling anabolic steroids however, your body STOPS producing ITS OWN ENDOGENOUS testosterone. There is no way around this..NOT BY TAKING TEST..because your BODY IS STILL NOT PRODUCING TEST, despite your RAGING HARD ONS.

It is OK to go 4-8 weeks with no testosterone production. Using steroids with short half-lives will also minimize supression. If I were on a 8 week cycle of anavar , my testosterone production would be REDUCED. NOW, If i ADD TEST, I will NOW BE SHUTDOWN!

Understand?

[TheMindOfRoss]

You can use THE SAME EXACT CYCLE I JUST OUTLINED...with slightly more chance of supression and sides...by CHANGING THE d-BOL to TEST PROP...or EVEN TRENBOLONE .....TRY IT...YOU WILL THANK ME.

[Swifto]

Are your views and ideas you gave to me about Dbol /Var from experience or studies you have conducted on many different individuals?

Or alternativly what your "think" may happen with this two compounds used together?

[needle]

Very interesting point , I defiantly agree with what your saying ! I no many large guys in the gym i guess you could say old school juicers, that 100% disagree with test in every cycle ! On the other hand I have ran test in every cycle but im going to try it once just to see what really happens!

[locutus]

Are your views and ideas you gave to me about Dbol /Var from experience or studies you have conducted on many different individuals?

Or alternativly what your "think" may happen with this two compounds used together?

Thats what i was asking in post number 13 of this thread. Did he do this himself or is this something he thinks should work acording to his research?

[TheMindOfRoss]

I know FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE--and dozens of clients--LOW dose d-bol and ANAVAR are a DYNAMIC DUO! STRENGTH like you wouldn't believe, HARDNESS, and Quality Lean body mass.

Are you ready to BEFRIEND ME?

[smokethedays]

but favoring d-bol over test is not a very wise thing to do, cause d-bol causes alot of stress to the liver

[TheMindOfRoss]

Dbol is NOT to be used for more than MAXIMUM 5 weeks in ANY of my cycling schemes due to it being 17AA. Furthermore, I NEVER exceed 25 mgs either.

Test has its place...just NOT IN EVERY CYCLE...

[wilthepill123]

Your body should never go extensive amounts of time without any testosterone production! When you are cycling anabolic steroids however, your body STOPS producing ITS OWN ENDOGENOUS testosterone. There is no way around this..NOT BY TAKING TEST..because your BODY IS STILL NOT PRODUCING TEST, despite your RAGING HARD ONS.

It is OK to go 4-8 weeks with no testosterone production. Using steroids with short half-lives will also minimize supression. If I were on a 8 week cycle of anavar , my testosterone production would be REDUCED. NOW, If i ADD TEST, I will NOW BE SHUTDOWN!

Understand?

Post cycle retention on a cycle incorporating Test isnt that difficult, and the limp dick associated with PCT is of course a problem but a much shorter period of time than when you do a cycle, even one of your downright terrible oral only cycles. You dont have to put everything in caps, we can read and understand points you make without having you emphasize them like we are three year olds.

You can use THE SAME EXACT CYCLE I JUST OUTLINED...with slightly more chance of supression and sides...by CHANGING THE d-BOL to TEST PROP...or EVEN TRENBOLONE.....TRY IT...YOU WILL THANK ME.

Wernt you just saying taking Test in a cycle is a bad thing? Yet you recommend Test Prop. Testosterone in cycles is a dogma because it works, everyone has their own opinions, but yours is silly and unfounded. No other AAS is as versatile for both mass cycles and cutting cycles when properly applied and utilized.

[smokethedays]

i agree with you that Test gains are pretty hard to keep, but it's the highest gains you can expect, and if you combine Test with EQ.. boy it's like magic

[TheMindOfRoss]

I LOVE TEST! TEST IS THE KING! HOWEVER, it DOES NOT BELONG IN EVERY CYCLE.....no more caps..)

Sometimes, they are neccessary.

[dive_kid]

here is on I just posted on another thread:

Here is a 6 weeker that I LOVE!

Week 1: 15mgs D-bol/30mgs VAR
Week 2: 15mgs D-bol/35mgs VAR
Week 3: 20mgs D-bol/40mgs VAR
Week 4: 15mgs D-bol/40ngs VAR
Week 5: 35mgs VAR
Week 6: 30mgs VAR

***************************
1.) LOW DOSE CYCLE- With the compounds used, at the doses indicated, HPTA impact will be only minimal. Other sides such as gyno, will be SUBSTANTIALLY REDUCED AS WELL.

2.) CYCLE DURATION- Due to the short duration of the cycle, gains will be MUCH EASIER to maintain after PCT!
****************************
I keep Arimidex on hand, but with such LOW D-BOL doses you will be SHOCKED at how LEAN you stay! Also, ALMOST NO SHUTDOWN at all! I begin Tribex (tribulus) 2 weeks prior to Clomid treatment, as this substantially increases the efficiacy of clomid--as there is already an existing LH/FSH signal being modulated.

You should put on 10-15 KEEPABLE.

dude, this is a bunch of crap. While I sort of kind of agree (but not really) that a cycle can be done with out test, this is not the way to do it.
as far as my understanding goes, var is the only one that will not shut you down to bad. It has been proven time and time again that d-bol does shut down natural test production. another problem with this cycle is all orals. do you wanna trash your liver??? also gains made on d-bol need more time to solidify into solid muscle. with out running some kind of test during and after you will loose almost all gains from d-bol. not all but most. partly due to the fact that d-bol loads on the water.
Now you talk about side effect of test, but you dont mention the problems that it prevents. with out test your body will have a very hard time growing.
It is the #1 ingrediant. without test you will also have problems like, and not limited to: derpession, lethargy, lack of agression, limp dick, and you will have no sence of well being.
as for pct, I have a studie somewhere (and I will look for it) that proves that the body will recover better from a cycle that had test in it, than one that did not. If pct is done properly GAINS WILL BE RETAINED!!! I, and many others here are walking proof of that. on an avrage cycle I will gain 20-22lbs
and keep a good 15-17lbs

[Honest Abe]

okay you do have some validity to your statement if your information is correct. However you only refrence dbol in testosterone supresssion. clearly more information would be needed to avaoid a loss of libido when stacking other compounds. and then your dealing with percentages, and break downs, on dosage ect. it then becomes very complicated. personally i love test, and will follow the rule of thumb.

[smokethedays]

i agree with you Dive Kid

[TheMindOfRoss]

OK, several things to adress:

you said: "Now you talk about side effect of test, but you dont mention the problems that it prevents. with out test your body will have a very hard time growing."

1.) THIS IS THE MISCONCEPTION. YOUR BODY DOESNT NEED TEST TO GROW WHEN YOU ARE ON OTHER ANABOLIC HORMONES! YOU WILL GROW FROM A PRIMOBOLAN /EQ STACK, OR A D-BOL/VAR!

2.) You can substitute D-bol with SHORT acting esters liek TEST PROP or TREN . This is ONLY ONE CYCLE I OUTLINED.

[TheMindOfRoss]

ALSO...D-bol, used in low doses, has been clinically proven to supress testosterone production, but only by up to as much as 60%, even with high dosages. TESTOSTERONE triggers a NEGATIVE FEEDBACK MUCH MORE RAPIDLY.

[1-Cent]

Run your 15-25mg Dbol /Var stack, I have no doubt you would not retain 15 lean pounds in 6 weeks. 2.5lbs of muscle per week on a real AAS stack is difficult enough with a spot on diet, forget it on a bunch of orals... If this was true why are you the only person who's been able to do it? Oral only cycles are common in Europe as beginner stacks and before I came here I frequented a Euro board for about a year and I never once saw results from the members like you've laid out and they were just as intelligent as anyone here or yourself...

They'd run 8 week oral cycles and end up with like 5 or 6 lbs

[TheMindOfRoss]

Im hitting the gym..ill be back later, but I would love to continue discourse.

[dive_kid]

OK, several things to adress:

you said: "Now you talk about side effect of test, but you dont mention the problems that it prevents. with out test your body will have a very hard time growing."

1.) THIS IS THE MISCONCEPTION. YOUR BODY DOESNT NEED TEST TO GROW WHEN YOU ARE ON OTHER ANABOLIC HORMONES! YOU WILL GROW FROM A PRIMOBOLAN /EQ STACK, OR A D-BOL/VAR!

2.) You can substitute D-bol with SHORT acting esters liek TEST PROP or TREN. This is ONLY ONE CYCLE I OUTLINED.

1. with out the use of test you will grow, but the body will not solidify the gains made and most will be pissed down the toilet.
2. the ester of the gear has nothing to do with it. you can take a short ester of anything and get apparent fast results. but the body need time to addapt to it.
short cycles can be ran, but you will get better gains and do less stress to the body by running 1 12 week cycle than 3 5 or 6 week cycles

[TheMindOfRoss]

This is simply incorrect. I have done it, many have done it. I said 10-15lbs. 10 lbs being more probable, 15lbs still possible.

[TheMindOfRoss]

Although Esters do not have INHERENT properties of their own, by MODIFYING how fast a chemical is released into the blood, they can greatly alter its effect. Chemical blood levels peak and stabalize at much different rates. Knowing how to manipulate esthers is a big part of building the perfect beast.

[niXon)(]

Here at ANABOLIC -REVIEW, it is a RELIGIOUS belief that TEST must be the BASE of every cycle. THIS IS INCORRECT.

Why NOT to incorporate TEST into EVERY CYCLE:

1.) Testosterone has a PROFOUND impact on your HPTA--CLINICALLY demonstrated to be MORE disturbing to the endocrine system than other anabolics when used alone. Testosterone supplementation reduced the body's own testosterone production by nearly 100%, while even Dianabol used in higher dosages, only caused a 60% decrease in testosterone production. Therefore, using a moderate testosterone dosage while ON A CYCLE of a mild anabolic such as primobolan or oxandrolone (even EQ) to COMBAT lack of LIBIDO, ect, will only make it HARDER to maintain your gains POST CYCLE. You are eliminating sexual sides, but doing so at the cost of your NATURAL TEST PRODUCTION.

2.) Testosterone has BAD SIDE EFFECTS IF YOU ARE GENETICALLY PREDISPOSED. Hairloss, Gyno, and prostate difficulties are high risks for many people on this board. Some are able to do test without much negative effect, while others are DEVESTATED by side effects.

3.) QUALITY OF GAINS. Testosterone causes a RAPID increase in body mass, much of which is lost upon cessation of cycle. This is due largely to the fact that testosterone aromatizes VERY easily, causing noticable water retention in most individuals. Using non-aromatizing steroids ELIMINATES the possibility of exposing your body to SUPRAPHYSIOLOGICAL levels of ESTROGEN, and it also reduces the amount of weight you lose post cycle. Furthermore, because of HOW MUCH TESTOSTERONE affects the HPTA, maintaining gains POST cycle can be very difficult, even with clomid therapy.

Any questions?

You're a ****ing dumbass go preach somewhere else and don't go yelling test only is bad

[dive_kid]

This is simply incorrect. I have done it, many have done it. I said 10-15lbs. 10 lbs being more probable, 15lbs still possible.

[TheMindOfRoss]

"Ill be Bock"

[TheMindOfRoss]

Ill take some GREAT pics for you guys right when I get back from gym. I am currently On British Dragon Oxanabol's at 30mgs ED, so i am looking massively SHREDDED. Keep debating..i look forward to seeing more replies!