What do you guys think of swimming for getting cut up during PCT/Leaning phase?

**Two4the$$** · 05-31-2005, 01:30 PM

Uh, just what the title says. lol

***Doc.Sust*** · 05-31-2005, 01:38 PM

cardio is cardio.doesn't matter if it is running, cycleing walking, the exercise itself won't cut you anymore than another, swiming may actually be worse for you, if you plan to continue to lift, the swiming is a very high impact form of cardio. that uses constant resistance to many muscle groups(resistance due to water). this will fatigue many of your major and minor muscle groups and you may see your numbers in the gym drop drasticaly.

**boardhead** · 05-31-2005, 01:45 PM

i would have to disagree and say that swimming is a VERY LOW IMPACT cardio excersise, especially on your major joints and knees. In addition, you will help expand your lungs and your upper body while getting the benefits of cardio. JMO

**dazbo** · 05-31-2005, 01:52 PM

i dont think he meant high impact as in the joints and things - more of a high work load due to the use of all the major and minor muscles used so you will be way above your 65% max HR level for fat burning. good for cardio but you'l burn muscle more i reckon.

***Doc.Sust*** · 05-31-2005, 01:53 PM

low impact on you joints yes. but still is going to fatigue the hell out of your major muscles. to get a decent cardio work out you need at least 15 decent minutes of continuous exercise, if you are just starting this now and are not any experienced regular swimmer, you are going to criple you major muscles. the body won't be used to it. swimming works the entire body with resistance everywhere, walking or running doesn't . if you truly lift for size or strength, i am telling you from experience, imo this is a mistake.

***Doc.Sust*** · 05-31-2005, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by dazbo

i dont think he meant high impact as in the joints and things - more of a high work load due to the use of all the major and minor muscles used so you will be way above your 65% max HR level for fat burning. good for cardio but you'l burn muscle more i reckon.

bingo! you will overtrain

**Two4the$$** · 05-31-2005, 01:57 PM

Well, just for the sake of getting more people involved in the conv... swimmers often DO have nice bodies, no?

**boardhead** · 05-31-2005, 02:04 PM

i understand what u are saying now. i swim 3 times a week for about 30 minutes first thing in the morning to keeps my paddling shoulders ready for surfing...i have never thought that it might hinder my ability to build muscle but i also dont necessarily train just to build muscle. i train to be in overall good shape and well being. interesting though.

***Doc.Sust*** · 05-31-2005, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Well, just for the sake of getting more people involved in the conv... swimmers often DO have nice bodies, no?

but they don't look like a bodybuilder or a powerlifter, yes they are cut , but have you ever scene a swimmer that looked like lou ferigno? i don't think so.swimming canot and will not put on as much mass as resistance traing with weights. sure reason is you can increse resistance with weights and not with water. sure you can swim more, but it snot the same as added resistance

**Logan13** · 05-31-2005, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Well, just for the sake of getting more people involved in the conv... swimmers often DO have nice bodies, no?

Fag!! lol

**fred9** · 05-31-2005, 02:23 PM

swimming isnt good for cutting if u read this article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...879&query_hl=1

**4spain** · 05-31-2005, 02:26 PM

By the way this should be in the Fitness Forums

**Two4the$$** · 05-31-2005, 02:38 PM

Yea, it should be. Good point regarding the appropIONATE (pun intended) forum. But, I don't want to look anything like Lou Forigno. I guess you think bigger is better. I don't. I think looking masculine proportioned and balanced is the best. In fact, although I want to be slightly bigger than the average swimmer, the truth is, not by much. I'm 6-3 ... and my goal weight is probably 220 at about 6% BF. Once I'm there, and I will be probably within a year, most of you with outrageous perceptions of what a males body should look like are WELCOMED and encouraged to post pictures of yourself along with mine where WOMEN will judge (because that's MY target audience) and we can see who has achieved the MOST desirable affect. In fact, since attraction CERTIFIES biological quality, and since that certification is most accurately performed by a the majority of the opposite sex, this should be a man's barometer of physical success. I'm not looking to appeal to a specialist in other words. I'm looking to PEG the mean perception of women's preference. What I'm getting at Logan, is who are YOU calling a fag? LOL. Who are YOU trying to appeal to?

***Doc.Sust*** · 05-31-2005, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Yea, it should be. Good point regarding the appropIONATE (pun intended) forum. But, I don't want to look anything like Lou Forigno. I guess you think bigger is better. I don't. I think looking masculine proportioned and balanced is the best. In fact, although I want to be slightly bigger than the average swimmer, the truth is, not by much. I'm 6-3 ... and my goal weight is probably 220 at about 6% BF. Once I'm there, and I will be probably within a year, most of you with outrageous perceptions of what a males body should look like are WELCOMED and encouraged to post pictures of yourself along with mine where WOMEN will judge (because that's MY target audience) and we can see who has achieved the MOST desirable affect. In fact, since attraction CERTIFIES biological quality, and since that certification is most accurately performed by a the majority of the opposite sex, this should be a man's barometer of physical success. I'm not looking to appeal to a specialist in other words. I'm looking to PEG the mean perception of women's preference. What I'm getting at Logan, is who are YOU calling a fag? LOL. Who are YOU trying to appeal to?

if you are not trying to gain mass, than stop taking the gear and swim your self stupid! i think most people who are in this forum are here for more size ,strength or both

**MBaraso** · 05-31-2005, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Doc.Sust

if you are not trying to gain mass, than stop taking the gear and swim your self stupid! i think most people who are in this forum are here for my size ,strength or both

I agree.
While swimming is a very good over all exercise...it's not what you'd wanna do alot of while your training. And it certainly won't replace cardio on the treadmill, eliptical etc.

**furiousburn** · 05-31-2005, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Doc.Sust

cardio is cardio.doesn't matter if it is running, cycleing walking, the exercise itself won't cut you anymore than another, swiming may actually be worse for you, if you plan to continue to lift, the swiming is a very high impact form of cardio. that uses constant resistance to many muscle groups(resistance due to water). this will fatigue many of your major and minor muscle groups and you may see your numbers in the gym drop drasticaly.

The doc is right on and if that's not bad enough, when I've tried swimming due to low bf I sink like a rock - no way I can keep my hr below 90%. I'm not willling to go through weeks of catabolization so eventually I could use swimming for cardio - jmo.

**KINGKONG** · 05-31-2005, 03:10 PM

Ive noticed since I put on muscle.. I can't swim my joints hurt from trying to keep my body weight up..I used to be a great swimmer when I was 60 pounds lighter, now I would be scared if I had to swim a long distance...Anybody else notice this when trying to swim, my other buddy who is over 225 at low bodyfat % noticed it too...

***Doc.Sust*** · 05-31-2005, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by furiousburn

The doc is right on and if that's not bad enough, when I've tried swimming due to low bf I sink like a rock - no way I can keep my hr below 90%. I'm not willling to go through weeks of catabolization so eventually I could use swimming for cardio - jmo.

i sink too!!!hahaha

**Two4the$$** · 05-31-2005, 03:12 PM

Hey, I wasn't committed to swimming, that's why I posted this thread. I DIDN'T post it to argue why I'm going to regardless of what the people who's opinion I solicited thought. On the other hand, to the guy who insulted my perception of a nice body, (which is what apparently was mistaken for me saying that I'm going to do it inspite of your comments) I wanted to point out the flaw of his presumptions. I may swim occassionally. But it won't (pursuant to this thread) be my main leaning exercise. I hope that clears the WATER for some. Anyway, just to reiterate, my goal is to be a PARTICULAR size, not just as big as I can get. Why is that such a crazy motivation to you guys for AAS usage? Just because it's not YOUR goal doesn't invalidate it as a goal, nor does it mitigate the benefits of AAS while attaining it. Jeez. For a fvcking educated and well read group, you sure do lack some open mindedness with regards to each persons OBJECTIVES.

**Two4the$$** · 05-31-2005, 03:15 PM

Doc ... a question for you. Are you trying to insult me? I just want to make sure I understand you correctly, given that you used the term stupid in your response.

***Doc.Sust*** · 05-31-2005, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Doc ... a question for you. Are you trying to insult me? I just want to make sure I understand you correctly, given that you used the term stupid in your response.

no i wasn't it was just a figure of speach.no disrespect,

***Doc.Sust*** · 05-31-2005, 03:39 PM

[QUOTE=TrumanHW]Hey, I wasn't committed to swimming, that's why I posted this thread. I DIDN'T post it to argue why I'm going to regardless of what the people who's opinion I solicited thought. On the other hand, to the guy who insulted my perception of a nice body, (which is what apparently was mistaken for me saying that I'm going to do it inspite of your comments) I wanted to point out the flaw of his presumptions. I may swim occassionally. But it won't (pursuant to this thread) be my main leaning exercise. I hope that clears the WATER for some. Anyway, just to reiterate, my goal is to be a PARTICULAR size, not just as big as I can get. Why is that such a crazy motivation to you guys for AAS usage? Just because it's not YOUR goal doesn't invalidate it as a goal, nor does it mitigate the benefits of AAS while attaining it. Jeez. For a fvcking educated and well read group, you sure do lack some open mindedness with regards to each persons OBJECTIVES.[/QUOTE don't let one or two people's opinions SINK your ship, you make a good point, just relax

**furiousburn** · 05-31-2005, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Yea, it should be. Good point regarding the appropIONATE (pun intended) forum. But, I don't want to look anything like Lou Forigno. I guess you think bigger is better. I don't. I think looking masculine proportioned and balanced is the best. In fact, although I want to be slightly bigger than the average swimmer, the truth is, not by much. I'm 6-3 ... and my goal weight is probably 220 at about 6% BF. Once I'm there, and I will be probably within a year, most of you with outrageous perceptions of what a males body should look like are WELCOMED and encouraged to post pictures of yourself along with mine where WOMEN will judge (because that's MY target audience) and we can see who has achieved the MOST desirable affect. In fact, since attraction CERTIFIES biological quality, and since that certification is most accurately performed by a the majority of the opposite sex, this should be a man's barometer of physical success. I'm not looking to appeal to a specialist in other words. I'm looking to PEG the mean perception of women's preference. What I'm getting at Logan, is who are YOU calling a fag? LOL. Who are YOU trying to appeal to?

Dude, you have a bad attitude. Okay, you have individual goals but then you call anyone who disagrees perception outrageous? You suggest a photo/pissing contest to win the Mr. Desirable contest? If you don't want opinions and facts then you probably shouldn't post.

***Doc.Sust*** · 05-31-2005, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by furiousburn

Dude, you have a bad attitude. Okay, you have individual goals but then you call anyone who disagrees perception outrageous? You suggest a photo/pissing contest to win the Mr. Desirable contest? If you don't want opinions and facts then you probably shouldn't post.

the photo contest of best body is a little silly, and may i ask who will be the judge and jury of the show?

**Two4the$$** · 05-31-2005, 03:55 PM

Hey Doc, glad we got that cleared up. Text is a tough format to distinguish all the subtleties of communication. I liked your opinion, and would appreciate them in the future.

Furious... I don't have an attitude problem. I'm just not looking to be anyone's punching bag for unspent hostilities. I asked a question, and a few of the responses bordered on what I'd call insulting … such as, the one where I was called a fag. Or did your Newbie dumb fvck illiterate sh1t 4 brains Cro-Magnon head miss that point? I HATE it when people try to tell me that the only acceptable goal is to be HUGE. It's MYOPIC. I accept that it's their goal. My questions are STILL valid in spite of our different objectives. And my pissing contest was one to point out that although my goal is the minority one, it's one that is more inline with a STRAIGHT man's benefits, which made it particularly relevant. I noticed you didn't make any grammar or spelling mistakes, you probably used Word or something else to hide your uneducated / unintelligible mind. But let me point out the other aspect of intellect. CUMULATIVE COMPREHENSION and SHORT TERM MEMORY. Idiot!

**MBaraso** · 05-31-2005, 03:58 PM

Furious and Truman...If you guys wanna call each other names please do it in PM.
If not I'm closing the thread which I think should be left open because different forms of cardio is a good debate topic so let's try to keep it civil.
Thanks,

**Two4the$$** · 05-31-2005, 03:59 PM

Okay, all that being said, I'll stick to other forms of leaning, and I'll do so by reading about them and posting about them in the appropriate forum. :-) Thanks for most of your thoughts on this.

Here's a Roid question ... (which makes this again the appropriate forum.) Since something like primo doesn't shut down endogenous production, why not use small dose during PCT if you start losing much muscle? I know, sounds kind of crazy to me too, but just a thought to see how to avoid losing gains made during a test/eq cycle.

Thanks

**MBaraso** · 05-31-2005, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Okay, all that being said, I'll stick to other forms of leaning, and I'll do so by reading about them and posting about them in the appropriate forum. :-) Thanks for most of your thoughts on this.

Here's a Roid question ... (which makes this again the appropriate forum.) Since something like primo doesn't shut down endogenous production, why not use small dose during PCT if you start losing much muscle? I know, sounds kind of crazy to me too, but just a thought to see how to avoid losing gains made during a test/eq cycle.

Thanks

If you have a another question then start a new post.
Thanks,

**Two4the$$** · 05-31-2005, 04:01 PM

You got it MBaraso. Sorry about that last post. LOL. I did go a smidge overboard, publically. But, then again, PM's are open! :-)

**PumpinIron** · 05-31-2005, 04:01 PM

You should not be doing any cardio during PCT. You need all of your precious calories for growth/maintenance. During PCT your cortisol levels are high, testosterone levels are low, and there is not an overall environment in the body conducive to Anabolism(muscle building). Avoid cardio (and expending too many calories overall) during your recovery period.

***Doc.Sust*** · 05-31-2005, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Hey Doc, glad we got that cleared up. Text is a tough format to distinguish all the subtleties of communication. I liked your opinion, and would appreciate them in the future.

Furious... I don't have an attitude problem. I'm just not looking to be anyone's punching bag for unspent hostilities. I asked a question, and a few of the responses bordered on what I'd call insulting … such as, the one where I was called a fag. Or did your Newbie dumb fvck illiterate sh1t 4 brains Cro-Magnon head miss that point? I HATE it when people try to tell me that the only acceptable goal is to be HUGE. It's MYOPIC. I accept that it's their goal. My questions are STILL valid in spite of our different objectives. And my pissing contest was one to point out that although my goal is the minority one, it's one that is more inline with a STRAIGHT man's benefits, which made it particularly relevant. I noticed you didn't make any grammar or spelling mistakes, you probably used Word or something else to hide your uneducated / unintelligible mind. But let me point out the other aspect of intellect. CUMULATIVE COMPREHENSION and SHORT TERM MEMORY. Idiot!

whoeeee!!!! slow down, alot of anger here, chill. you don't want to get banned for flaming. granted your goal is different than most here, but no reason to show your fangs about it.

**Bertz** · 05-31-2005, 04:16 PM

what if your on cycle... would swimming still be catabolic?

**Bertz** · 05-31-2005, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by fred9

swimming isnt good for cutting if u read this article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...879&query_hl=1

and thats 18 years old is it not?

**Two4the$$** · 05-31-2005, 04:22 PM

Altogether, sorry about the extent of my earlier response.

18 years old, yes. But if it's a scientific study, the age hardly seems relevant.

Hey, question re: HGH during PCT... any comments? I hear it takes a while to become effective, and was told that IGF-1 is a better choice because it becomes effective more rapidly. I was thinking of using clen during my PCT... is that bad?

**furiousburn** · 05-31-2005, 04:23 PM

Truman - yes I am a newb - I apologize for my candor - peace

**Two4the$$** · 05-31-2005, 04:26 PM

Cool dude, apology accepted, and I extend one aswell! :-) All's good in the anabolic hood! lol

***Doc.Sust*** · 05-31-2005, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Altogether, sorry about the extent of my earlier response.

18 years old, yes. But if it's a scientific study, the age hardly seems relevant.

Hey, question re: HGH during PCT... any comments? I hear it takes a while to become effective, and was told that IGF-1 is a better choice because it becomes effective more rapidly. I was thinking of using clen during my PCT... is that bad?

i use clen during pct to drop my cotisone levels. i know of people using igf-1 as pct (especialy the new oral stuff from THAT lab (wink wink) ) but hgh for pct? you need to be on GH for at least 3 months to see results, i never heard of anyone doing hgh for just a few weeks of pct.

**Two4the$$** · 05-31-2005, 04:36 PM

Okay, but arent there a few benefits of HGH that IGF1 doesnt have? Such as the anti aging affect? Anyway, as it turns out, given that I live close to West Hollywood... lol, I can get HGH for around $275 per kit. Are there any other things that are good from HGH that aren't affects of IGF1?

**surfnsailor** · 06-03-2005, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Logan13

Fag!! lol

**smiler** · 06-03-2005, 08:21 PM

ok my old lady swims everyday (lots) still has plenty of mass, mainly fat. not trying to be a smart ass but if i swim @75% mhr for an hour, and its really hot...would i sweat? things that make ya go hmmm

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