Growth Plate Closure......

[BlackStang]

I was just wondering if there are any AAS that do not close growth plates besides var. I heard DHTs dont cause closure but I want to know forsure and if there are any other AAS that wont?



Thanks

[stocky121]

diden't you already have a thread like this ? var t-bol winny. Not sure what else. But like i said in your other thread i still think you should wait a bit before you cycle

[Doc.Sust]

wait until you are done growing and then you won't have any problems, make all the natural gains you can.should all be closed by the time you are 20yo. i would still wait another year or so even after that, lots of time for gear when you are older.

[SV-1]

If you're of an age where you have to ask this question then you need to wait a few years before you start a cycle.

[almostgone]

...if there are any ASS Thanks..

You really mean AAS, don't you?....

[BUYLONGTERM]

/\

What he said 2 posts up!!!

[BlackStang]

stocky121 - Yes i did have another thread but as you stated "var t-bol winny. Not sure what else" noone was sure. I just want to make sure and see if there are any others.

Thought I would get replys saying to wait but I havn't decided to do anything else yet. The more knowlegde you have the better.



Thanks

[BlackStang]

lol man i missed that, yes AAS

long hard day at work.

[Maetenloch]

It's the estrogen levels that cause the closing of the epiphyseal plates - not testosterone. So in theory any non-aromatizing steroid would be safe to use. HOWEVER the problem is that during PCT, there will likely be an estrogen rebound which might be enough to bring on closure. If you're young enough to still be growing, you're also enjoying the highest levels of testosterone and HGH that you'll ever have in your life. Using AAS just doesn't seem worth the risk IMO.

[BlackStang]

Ok would a var/primo cycle need more then tribulus to bring the natural test levels up since they arn't that hard on my system?

The cycle would be

weeks 1-10 primo 300mg a week ( shot twice a week)
weeks 1-10 var 40mg/ed (take in morning and night)


Maybe even cut the cycle down to 8 weeks, not looking for huge gains, 15lb or more is what i'm out for.

Thanks

[jeremys]

Ok would a var/primo cycle need more then tribulus to bring the natural test levels up since they arn't that hard on my system?

The cycle would be

weeks 1-10 primo 300mg a week ( shot twice a week)
weeks 1-10 var 40mg/ed (take in morning and night)


Maybe even cut the cycle down to 8 weeks, not looking for huge gains, 15lb or more is what i'm out for.

Thanks

you can gain 15 lbs naturally. easily

[Whoisdaman]

Man, if your so worried then just take suppliments till you stop caring. I started early and probably have grown another 1-2 inches... but I really don't give a fvck. That was so long ago anyways. Either go all out or wait, your choice.

[PumpinIron]

Bump the Primo(Enanthate) to at least 400mgs bud. You may even start the anavar at 30mgs to conserve money and gains.

Great cycle! One of my ALLTIME favorites!

[BlackStang]

I'm not to worried about it becuase i'm already tall enough but if I can avoid it why wouldn't i?


PumpinIron - turn pms on, and what else do I need to know about this cycle? did you experience any sides, gains, did you keep all of your gains, etc.




Thanks

[Whoisdaman]

I hope you know that there is still a good chance that the var will shut you down...

[BlackStang]

Yea I've been looking into var for awhile now and some people did say that but most people said that tribulus would be fine for pct.

[FrkyBgStok]

how old are you?

[droddy]

shut you down test-wise / sexually or growth plate wise?

I hope you know that there is still a good chance that the var will shut you down...

[BlackStang]

19. Yes I know most of you on here will say thats too young and that I should wait. Everybody matures differently and the only way I could find that out forsure is to see my doctor, which i probably will if I decide to do a cycle. But I picked two AAS that do not aromatize which won't close growth plates. I was heavily into drinking since I was younger which probably lowerd my test levels so they probably arn't "raging" as much as they should be.


The cycle is mild and shouldn't be too harsh on me. The reason why I am asking these questions because I want to find out the best and safest way to do the cycle if I do decide to go through with it.

[Whoisdaman]

shut you down test-wise / sexually or growth plate wise?

well, both. It'll shut down your natural test. And as stated above your growth plates shut down more on the basis of an imbalance between estrogen and testosterone levels (ie. estrogen levels higher than your test levels). When you come off your cycle and enter PCT, your test levels are at an alltime low and you estrogen levels are at an alltime high. This leads to the imbalace, closing your growth plates.

19. Yes I know most of you on here will say thats too young and that I should wait. Everybody matures differently

No diss here, I started at 19 (long time ago). And like I said, I was still growing and probably could have grown another 1-2 inches... but I really am fine where im at now. Whatever floats your boat.

[BlackStang]

Ya forsure, i'm fine with my height but like I said if I can avoid it I would rather go that route.

Since var and primo dont convert to estrogen I shouldn't have to worry about closing my plates because even though my test levels will be lower then normal my estrogen levels shouldn't be much different right?


Also would just using tribulus for pct be good enough?


Thanks man

[Whoisdaman]

Since var and primo dont convert to estrogen I shouldn't have to worry about closing my plates because even though my test levels will be lower then normal my estrogen levels shouldn't be much different right?

Pretty much... but you will still be in danger. When your shut down your body will naturally have an indifferent test/estrogen ratio. I don't know how your body will react. Take some tribulus.

Also would just using tribulus for pct be good enough?

No, you should still run a PCT. You'll be shut down. Clomid for 15-20 days @ 50mg should work well.

I kept growing after multiple cycles of stacked prohormones when I was 17 or so, and I was shutdown. Some of it's luck I guess.

[BlackStang]

So I shouldn't be worried about the clomid closing my growth plates?

Through my research mostly everyone said it would.

[stocky121]

So I shouldn't be worried about the clomid closing my growth plates?

Through my research mostly everyone said it would.

no any anti-e is going to close your growth plate's

[BlackStang]

So if I run the cycle followed by Clomid for 15-20 days @ 50mg I shouldn't have to worry about anything?




thanks everyone

[stocky121]

So if I run the cycle followed by Clomid for 15-20 days @ 50mg I shouldn't have to worry about anything?




thanks everyone

yes clomid will close your growth plate's

[juice4life]

How would an anti-e close your growth plates? I'm just wondering this because if it is blocking estrogen or surpressing it, then you wouldn't have excess estrogen, therefore your growth plates wouldn't close. Am I wrong about this?

[BlackStang]

Ya i'm gettin confused here lol. So clomid will close my plates and would tribulus be enough to bring my natural test levels back up? or would that not do much.




Thanks

[stocky121]

look bro this is the last time i'am going to try and help you take a look at this thread http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...th+plates+trib

dude-man explain's all he used to be a very good vet before he got banned and diesal backed him up and he was a mod. But do what ever you have to do bro.

also i have spoke to buylongterm in pm's about this and he think's dude-man would be correct

[BlackStang]

That post explains everything. I don't know why I couldn't find that one. I've been doing searching for awhile now.

Ok well now that I know tribulus can be used for pct at 4g/ed all I need to know is how long should I run it for?

I guess that will depend on how I feel, etc and should be able to tell myself.



Thanks for sorry for all the questions but If i'm going to go through with it I want to do it the right way.

[stocky121]

That post explains everything. I don't know why I couldn't find that one. I've been doing searching for awhile now.

Ok well now that I know tribulus can be used for pct at 4g/ed all I need to know is how long should I run it for?

I guess that will depend on how I feel, etc and should be able to tell myself.



Thanks for sorry for all the questions but If i'm going to go through with it I want to do it the right way.

no problem bro at lest your listening. And you answerd your question yourself just run it untill you feel like yuor test level's are back up or better yet go to your doc's and get them checked out

[1-Cent]

That post explains everything. I don't know why I couldn't find that one. I've been doing searching for awhile now.

Ok well now that I know tribulus can be used for pct at 4g/ed all I need to know is how long should I run it for?

I guess that will depend on how I feel, etc and should be able to tell myself.



Thanks for sorry for all the questions but If i'm going to go through with it I want to do it the right way.

tribulus isn't even close to being a pheasable PCT solution... if growth plate closer is an issue for you, you shouldn't be looking into AAS at all

[BlackStang]

even with just a primo/var cycle? Many people have said that trib is fine for pct on a var only and primo isn't harsh either.

[1-Cent]

even with just a primo/var cycle? Many people have said that trib is fine for pct on a var only and primo isn't harsh either.

do it then its your money

[BlackStang]

well i would like to know why its not. I have heard that it is ok with a var only cycle and adding primo with var shouldn't drop my test levels much more would it?

Just tryin to hear both sides here man.

[1-Cent]

well i would like to know why its not. I have heard that it is ok with a var only cycle and adding primo with var shouldn't drop my test levels much more would it?

Just tryin to hear both sides here man.

There is no varriance in HPTA shut down, testosterone production is a negative feedback loop, once you introduce a synthetic androgen into your body the feedback loop is broken because the level of androgens is greatly raised and remains a constant. Shut down = shut down.

[BlackStang]

There isn't? I thought different AAS affect you differently. As in some drop your test levels more then others.

[BlackStang]

"Anavar (oxandrolone) is not very toxic, not very androgenic, mildly anabolic, and pretty mild on the body’s HPTA"

"I think it may be due to it’s relatively light impact on the HPTA"

"Anavar will not totally shut down your HPTA"



Just thought i'd add in quotes from hookers profile on anavar

[1-Cent]

"Anavar (oxandrolone) is not very toxic, not very androgenic, mildly anabolic, and pretty mild on the body’s HPTA"

"I think it may be due to it’s relatively light impact on the HPTA"

"Anavar will not totally shut down your HPTA"



Just thought i'd add in quotes from hookers profile on anavar

Ok let me rephrase then, you COULD run var without it affecting your HPTA, say 10mg /ED as in a bridge thru PCT, its used for this very purpose. Consider that this dosage would be used to treat an infant for a variety of muscle wasting conditions and others. Can you compare yourself to the size of an infant? Perhaps a small framed woman? If you answered no to either of these I would not waste my time running var at anything less than 60-100mg /day, that will most definetly shut you down 100%, not even debatable I'm afraid.

You could also run 10mg of Dbol /ED, but the same thing applies if you are not a small child.

Either of these will only prevent muscle loss during PCT, you won't actually gain off of it...

[Whoisdaman]

Sorry bro, but Var can make an impact on your HPTA, and stacked with primo... who knows.

This was origianlly posted by Dflood from AR

I have seen about three threads a day in the past month on anavar alone, and they all turn into arguments involving the same parties....so let this just be a "guide" for an individual planning/considering using oxandrolone as a standalone compound.

First, id like to get a few things straight about var.

MYTHS

Myth #1 - Anavar will not suppress the HPTA.
False. Anavar, used in adequate dosages, will shut you down. To what degree you experience side effects of suppression (loss of libido, lethargy) is entirely dependent upon the individual and the dosages used.

Myth #2 - Var is a weak anabolic, and is not effective unless stacked with a more androgenic compound.
This could not be further from the truth. At dosages of 40mg a day and higher, anavar is incredibly effective at adding water free LBM. At around day 6-7, increased vascularity should become apparent (assuming your oxandrolone is legitimate in its dosing), and strength gains should start appearing around day 14.
If used during a clean bulk, gains of 10-20 pounds are possible. If cutting, you will maintain weight, or even put on 5-10 pounds (depending on the rate of fat loss/severity of diet). You will keep all of your gains with proper PCT.

Myth #3 - Anavar will not require any type of PCT.
This is one ive never understood. It's a pretty commonly known fact now that var is a suppressive compound. So why is it that some individuals still refuse to make a small investment in some clomid/nolva....this is your testicular function we're talking about. That said, PCT required for var is not as "heavy" as PCT for, say, a test/eq cycle. 15-20 days @ 50mg clomid should be sufficient.