Short Cycles-Old Threads Revisited & Asking For Insight

[crimson55]

I need your help - I'm designing my next cycle with the following objectives:
1. minimize sides (concerned with cholesterol, hairloss, and speed of natural test recovery)
2. make it as "healthy" as possible. (I just know someone will write, "Well just train naturally" - I know, that's not the value-add I'm looking for, but thanks anyways

I've been doing research and came across an old thread discussing the pros of 2 week cycles - so that's 2 weeks on and 3/4 weeks off, then repeat. I know a lot of bros only recommend longer cycles (8 to 14 weeks is typical) for maximum size and gains with the theory time on = time off. I'm okay with having the gains come slower if is minimizes sides and increases the chances of keeping gains - I don't need to put on 30 lbs in one shot.

From what I've read with the 2 week cycles it minimizes the time with a potentially crappy lipid profile, as well as the other usual suspect sides, and allows for very quick recovery of natural test because the pituitary and the hypothalamus aren't completely shut down (that apparently happens in week 3...) Again just what I've found - not talking out of my ass.

So a proposed cylce for those close to your "natural" body weight - defined as 5'9" 190lbs fairly lean (adjust approx for different height levels)
Day 1 to 14: d-bol 50/day
Day 1 to 12: tren ace 75/day
Day 1: Test prop 300mg
Day 2 to 11: Test prop 100mg/day
Day 15: Clomid 300mg
Day 16 to 44: Clomid 50mg/day
Include Arimidex at .5mg/day

Here are the threads I'm referring to. There both almost 3 years old...
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=34527
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...hreadid=182799

Is there anything that I'm missing that would refute the pros of short cycles besides maximal gains in one cycle? Because right now it seems like it makes sense. I appreciate suggestions and guidance.

BTW - am currently in week 7 of my third cycle consisting of 500 Test Enan and 400 Deca per week split into Sun and Wed night shots.

Arimidex at .5mg/day.
210lbs, 6'0" 14%bf

[Whitey]

This has been a hotly debated topic for some time. The longer cycles have gained widespread acceptance, but there are a few groups that are still proponents of these short blast cycles. I don't have anything new to add to the debate that hasn't already been said.

Why don't you run a couple of these and report back? You might keep a journal online, so we can all learn from your experience.

[crimson55]

Since I've been only able to find a couple of people who have tried it, I will definitely keep a results log and post for others.

It does seem that long cycles are now standard and short ones (for the most part) have dropped off the map - I'm critically looking at different thoughts and was hoping that someone might share something concrete that I missed.

[DEVLDOG]

my opinion is that pct is much worse on the body then a cycle is,i know i personally always felt like sh!t during recovery..so im guessing you would be doing a few of these cycles in a 1 yr time frame in which case you will be subjecting your body to shutting down and recovering a few times..not something i would want to do..your also not giving your body enough time for blood levels to level out during your short cycles..you dont gain much muscle in the first four weeks of a cycle,weight gained is usually water weight during this time....I have been on now for 9 months without a break and i can tell you that i continue to get stronger (benched 500 x 2 yesterday...first time ever) my weight is still increasing(presently 292) and im getting harder...goodluck with whatever you do

[Property of Steroid.com]

12 weeks of 500mgs of deca + 500mgs of test = Total HPTA Shutdown
1 week of 500mgs of deca + 500mgs of test = Total HPTA Shutdown

Which one will yield more gains, since the shut down is the same in both cases?

[Mr. Punisher]

deca cant be used for short cycles hooker! The best compounds to use are fast acting like winny,tren,prop,boldenone acetate, some orals like var and dbol,proviron and oraltbol and also short cycles should be 4 to 6 weeks max!

[Mr. Punisher]

another thing is that those who do short cycles dont do them to bulk or gain 20 lbs! short cycles shold be used to gain or maintain what u already have and lower your BF% but defenetly not gain more than 5 to 15 lbs!

[Property of Steroid.com]

Prop will shut you down 100% also, Mr.P....so will Tren (even worse than Deca)....

[Mesomorphyl]

Tried the 4 weeker did not like it. The 21 injections per week was one of the reasons, and that # does not reflect the slin injects. What I gained I lost in the 4+ weeks on recovery... I used test suspension, tren ace, anavar, and for some dumb ass reason I shot 1200mg of eq the first day...

I think someone also stated that your body needs to get use to the extra weight gain... homostasis???

[Mr. Punisher]

Prop will shut you down 100% also, Mr.P....so will Tren (even worse than Deca)....

thats not the argument mr hooker, the purpose is to get faster into pct and get solid gaind from the compunds used even if it is just 5 lbs! I rather gain 5 lbs of muscle fom winny/tren/prop in 4 weeks than 20 lbs of muscle and water form deca/dbol/test 10 week cycle!

[Heracles74]

why do newbies think they have two feet to stand on in argument or even discussion about gear with a moderator?? Someone explain this to me.
They get to be moderators for a reason.

[Duke of Earl]

2 weeks seems extremely short - I'm trying a short cycle now - 8 weeks of prop / tbol & I thought that was short!!!
Let us know how it goes - the idea / theory of it can sound attractive, I'm just not convinced about real world results...

[Mr. Punisher]

Tried the 4 weeker did not like it. The 21 injections per week was one of the reasons, and that # does not reflect the slin injects. What I gained I lost in the 4+ weeks on recovery... I used test suspension, tren ace, anavar, and for some dumb ass reason I shot 1200mg of eq the first day...

I think someone also stated that your body needs to get use to the extra weight gain... homostasis???

I really wonder what kind of knowlede you have regarding gear mr. Meso! no offense but after so many posts should already know better! any way I was reading the post where u where suspended and you really seem to contradict oy excuse yourself for your lack of knowledge!
Quote:
Originally Posted by desperado7
AFTER THE MIX OF B12 AND PROP THE MIX CONTINUES CLEAR ENOUGH TO SEE ANY BLOOD WHEN ASPIRATING BEFORE THE INJECTION! SO HOW R U GOING TO SEE BLOOD WHENEVER ANYONE INJECTS ONLY B 12 BY ITSELF!

Posted by Meso
First you have stated you never did roids, then you are going to say what mixing prop and b12 look like? You are the liar. Second question, even though you are using exclamation points for question marks, When I inject just b-12 into my self I just test for vacuum. Now if I was shooting a glute I would want to see as I have had a vacuum pressure and pulled some blood. So yes I would like to see... You cannot even back yourself up with any experience, so please do not give advice, especially if it is just to try and discredit someone because your feelings are hurt.

First of all, after mixing porp and B12 the solution does continue clear enough to see if any blood is pulled when aspirating. Second, you should always test for vacum or aspirate with any kind of intramuscular injection not just B12 and any way b12 by itself is more clear than blood and blood can be seen when aspirating. so it makes no sense when u stated "When I inject just b-12 into my self I just test for vacuum". Third and finally equipoise 1200mg on the first day of short cycle is useless and there is no way gains can be lost after a short cycle if porper PCT is done correctly. One thing is right about your last statement! your body does need to get used to the new weight in a long cycle for hemostasis to occur so that the most gains are kept! but thats for long cycles! for short cycles the goals should never be to gains more than 10 to 15 lbs and also to increase strenght like in a long cycle!

[Mr. Punisher]

why do newbies think they have two feet to stand on in argument or even discussion about gear with a moderator?? Someone explain this to me.
They get to be moderators for a reason.

why do u guys consider all new members to this board to be newbees in matters of gear! and even if you are a newbee why not argue and discuss to learn if u need to! this an internet board my friend and experts or not the decission to use gear or how to use it belong to you and is your decision only, and not of any moderator or expert! dont kiss that much ass boy! you are just a junior member! do u think that whenever u post 5000 u will be a moderator and no one will argue a point of view wiht u!

[DEVLDOG]

bro,if your gonna pose a question you should do so with an open mind,open to feedback regardless of if you agree with it or not.if your gonna ask the question and then disagree with everyone because you think you already know the answer then why even ask in the first place..
'
you state the reason you want to do a short cycle is to get into PCT quicker...the point of PCT is to recover..there is no reason you should want to do this quickly..but since you seem to know better then everyone here..have at it

[Mr. Punisher]

2 weeks seems extremely short - I'm trying a short cycle now - 8 weeks of prop / tbol & I thought that was short!!!
Let us know how it goes - the idea / theory of it can sound attractive, I'm just not convinced about real world results...

tell me how it goes! by theory your gains should be very solid and you should be able to keep them after pct!

[Mr. Punisher]

why do newbies think they have two feet to stand on in argument or even discussion about gear with a moderator?? Someone explain this to me.
They get to be moderators for a reason.

If a Professional like the blade, Priest, Victor Mtz, Etc will sign in in this board as a newbee! do u think he would be impressed by names or post counts!

[Mesomorphyl]

I really wonder what kind of knowlede you have regarding gear mr. Meso!
Quote:
Originally Posted by desperado7
AFTER THE MIX OF B12 AND PROP THE MIX CONTINUES CLEAR ENOUGH TO SEE ANY BLOOD WHEN ASPIRATING BEFORE THE INJECTION! SO HOW R U GOING TO SEE BLOOD WHENEVER ANYONE INJECTS ONLY B 12 BY ITSELF!

Posted by Meso
First you have stated you never did roids, then you are going to say what mixing prop and b12 look like? You are the liar. Second question, even though you are using exclamation points for question marks, When I inject just b-12 into my self I just test for vacuum. Now if I was shooting a glute I would want to see as I have had a vacuum pressure and pulled some blood. So yes I would like to see... You cannot even back yourself up with any experience, so please do not give advice, especially if it is just to try and discredit someone because your feelings are hurt.

First of all, after mixing porp and B12 the solution does continue clear enough to see if any blood is pulled when aspirating. Second, you should always test for vacum or aspirate with any kind of intramuscular injection not just B12 and any way b12 by itself is more clear than blood and blood can be seen when aspirating. so it makes no sense when u stated "When I inject just b-12 into my self I just test for vacuum". Third and finally equipoise 1200mg on the first day of short cycle is useless and there is no way gains can be lost after a short cycle if porper PCT is done correctly. One thing is right about your last statement! your body does need to get used to the new weight in a long cycle for hemostasis to occur so that the most gains are kept! but thats for long cycles! for short cycles the goals should never be to gains more than 10 to 15 lbs and also to increase strenght like in a long cycle!

What is your point on the B-12? I would bet $100 bucks an IP check would say you are desperado7, I use b-12 injections... do you? Also are you saying if you draw b-12 first and then an oil you cannot only see the separation but you also cannot tell if blood is mixed with the clear oil? Explain.

Also I do believe I said regarding the eq that it was a dumbass thing... So was a short cycle... But it was my third and I thought I was on some ground breaking info, or something that might work better - WRONG. I have done 7 cycles so far and am always learning. But I have heard a smart man can learn from his own mistakes but a wise man will learn from others mistakes.

Do you back this 2-4 week short cycles? I bet you have not even done one let alone you pretend to have knowledge... desperado your name should read desperate. And for everyone who read his quotes he added his own spin so his words are in orange.

[stupidhippo]

12 weeks of 500mgs of deca + 500mgs of test = Total HPTA Shutdown
1 week of 500mgs of deca + 500mgs of test = Total HPTA Shutdown

Which one will yield more gains, since the shut down is the same in both cases?

I think this is pretty much on the money here... Maybe a lil oversimplified but to atleast my knowledge this exactly right.. Listen to him...

[Mr. Punisher]

I think this is pretty much on the money here... Maybe a lil oversimplified but to atleast my knowledge this exactly right.. Listen to him...

like I replied to Mr hooker Stupid.... the argument is not the HTPA but how fast can u recover and get into PCT and the shortest amount ot time on gear!

[Property of Steroid.com]

like I replied to Mr hooker Stupid.... the argument is not the HTPA but how fast can u recover and get into PCT and the shortest amount ot time on gear!

So you're saying that you can recover faster from shorter cycles? Feel free to post some kind of evidence to back that claim up.....

I'm looking for a study, medical journal, or even your own blood-work to validate your claims, here....

Actually....what are your claims?

[Property of Steroid.com]

And why do you keep calling me Mr.hooker? My name is below my screen name, if you need to call me Mr.whatever...Mr.Roberts is fine.

[symatech]

From my experience with a handful of two week cycles a while back they work fine. But there are a few things you need to understand:

1)They will only provide beneficial results if you are under your genetic potential. If you're already stacked you won't see squat from these.

2)Patience is the name of the game. It may take you 20 weeks or so with on/off to get the same results 10 weeks would get you on a full cycle.

3)Diet must be perfect. If you aren't eating right, you won't gain.

4)Sides are few but you will still be shut down. When I did these cycles I just ran clomid at 50mg/day and continued about 2 weeks after I stopped and never had a problem.

5)Understand you will not see dramatic changes in your body like you would with a normal cycle. After 2 weeks you may not be looking any bigger, probably only about 5lbs. But it's 5lbs that wouldn't come in 2 weeks of natural training.

So, if you are patient, your diet is right, and you are under your genetic potential then I'd say you have nothing to loose. But once you hit the point where your body doesn't really put on muscle without steroids you won't see any kind of gain from them.

[symatech]

hooker - I think you do recover faster from these shorter cycles but I've never seen any kind of study that would dictate so. Only thing I know is when I run cycles that are say 8-10 weeks and over, my bloodwork tells me that I am personally not back to normal range for about 10-15 weeks depending on the compound and duration used.

When I ran the short cycles however, bloodwork indicated my levels were back up to normal a mere 8 days after my last injection. But my levels never increased like realgains said his did.

now don't get me wrong, the bloodwork of 1 individual hardly passes as hard data, and is inconclusive at best. Thus I hate to really argue in favor of or against these cycles. They worked for me (for a time) and now they don't. Perhaps those who are just starting aas would benefit more from them. It really depends on one's goals I think.

[flabbywussy]

Tried the 4 weeker did not like it. The 21 injections per week was one of the reasons, and that # does not reflect the slin injects. What I gained I lost in the 4+ weeks on recovery... I used test suspension, tren ace, anavar, and for some dumb ass reason I shot 1200mg of eq the first day...

I think someone also stated that your body needs to get use to the extra weight gain... homostasis???

exactly i believe the longer you stay on the more chance you have of keeping it.

how do you think the pros keep getting bigger? they stay on most of the year or year round

[flabbywussy]

by the way i just start to feel my prop after about a week and a half.

4 days on test and you won't gain shiat...sorry bro

you're just screwin with your test levels like a see- saw

[Thick911]

...I was going to give an opinion but couldnt get past Devldog benching 500 X 2...thats one bad mutha.

[Property of Steroid.com]

hooker - I think you do recover faster from these shorter cycles but I've never seen any kind of study that would dictate so. .

Well....this depends largely on the compounds being run. The prop and tren Mr.Punisher suggests would shut you down 100% for a very long time....even on a short cycle.

[symatech]

how do you think the pros keep getting bigger? they stay on most of the year or year round

yeah but that's only because their job is being big and cut. Those guys are so far ahead of genetic potential that there is no possible way no matter how good their diet is that they would keep very much of that mass when they came off. They stay on year round because they have to, if they don't they loose size and hence they loose competitions and money.

I gained anywhere from 5-8 lbs on those short cycles. never lost 1lb. In fact, I kept gaining weight after I came off. There was never a deficit. When I run cycles longer than 8-10 weeks, I loose something. Every time. I gain more but percentage wise it's a no brainer....keep 100% of gains or keep 80-90%. Then you add up a bunch of those short cycles and you've put on the same amount of weight, just over longer period of time. But with no negative side effects.

For me the choice was easy once I realized that they do work. But now, they don't do anything to me so again my choice is easy.

I maintain that these cycles are PERFECT for newbies.

When I ran them I mainly used prop only. But I did run tren on 2 or 3 of them. I think total I ran maybe 7. but that was awhile ago.



Of course this is all just my opinion. But it is derived directly from my experience with these cycles. Don't knock it till you try it, but don't try it if you already have decent muscle mass. see what I'm saying?

[flabbywussy]

yeah but that's only because their job is being big and cut. Those guys are so far ahead of genetic potential that there is no possible way no matter how good their diet is that they would keep very much of that mass when they came off. They stay on year round because they have to, if they don't they loose size and hence they loose competitions and money.

I gained anywhere from 5-8 lbs on those short cycles. never lost 1lb. In fact, I kept gaining weight after I came off. There was never a deficit. When I run cycles longer than 8-10 weeks, I loose something. Every time. I gain more but percentage wise it's a no brainer....keep 100% of gains or keep 80-90%. Then you add up a bunch of those short cycles and you've put on the same amount of weight, just over longer period of time. But with no negative side effects.

For me the choice was easy once I realized that they do work. But now, they don't do anything to me so again my choice is easy.

I maintain that these cycles are PERFECT for newbies.

When I ran them I mainly used prop only. But I did run tren on 2 or 3 of them. I think total I ran maybe 7. but that was awhile ago.



Of course this is all just my opinion. But it is derived directly from my experience with these cycles. Don't knock it till you try it, but don't try it if you already have decent muscle mass. see what I'm saying?

i see what you're saying,but i seriously doubt your cycles were 2 weeks long.

yeah, if he's a newb he might gain of 4-6 week cycles,but that's alot anti e's and pct drugs to keep using on and off not only body wise, but $$ wise too.

[thebrakes]

why do newbies think they have two feet to stand on in argument or even discussion about gear with a moderator?? Someone explain this to me.
They get to be moderators for a reason.

that's retarded. the truth is the truth, regardless of the source. hooker is a good mod, but he was a little off in this discussion...using deca as an example to prove his point about the inefficiency of short cycles is like citing cavities as a reason not to eat - related, but completely irrelevant. no offense hooker.

and shutdown for 2 weeks DOES NOT EQUAL shutdown for 12, even if it is 100%...duration counts in these matters. (sorry, no clinical studies but i reckon i can dredge some threads on other boards with T/E bloodwork)

i personally think 2 weeks is WAY too short to see real results...4-6 weeks, however, can produce good gains, but like symatech said, you reach a point where small doses and short durations dont work anymore. not to say i wouldnt be curious about a 2on-2off-2on-PCT blast M1T cycle (as it works EXTREMELY fast) with a SERM in between and after. the stuff evacuates your system so quickly....TBol would serve this purpose well too, but i'm not sure the anabolism is high enough. in any case, i cant do short cycles anymore - too friggin big.

[Property of Steroid.com]

What would have been relevant? Prop? I used that example too... Tren? I used that example....

No offence taken...people take shots at me...it's part of the job.

[thebrakes]

What would have been relevant? Prop? I used that example too... Tren? I used that example....

No offence taken...people take shots at me...it's part of the job.

TNE, test/bold/nand base TD, most 17aa's are all a person could consider for a cycle that short...naturally the list expands to include tren, prop, bold prop/ace, NPP when you go 6+ weeks

[Property of Steroid.com]

I can't see where the science is behind any of those compounds working, nor why a short cycle being useful in any way/shape/form other than very, very specific instances.

[symatech]

i see what you're saying,but i seriously doubt your cycles were 2 weeks long.

actually you're right....they were only 12 days seriously I'm not lying. they really do work if you're under your genetic potential. But that's the only time they do.