Frontloading motives and benefits explained.

[Two4the$$]

First and foremost, this is some absolutely 3rd grade writing. If someone will unfu(k my plight and make it clear and flowing, I'll edit it and update it. I'm TIRED.

I’m surprised there isn’t a sticky on frontloading, and if there is one, why does it seem like it’s never read.

Below are the amounts released in a week when not frontloading

250mg x 2 of enanthate

Week 1 195 39%
Week 2 336 67%
Week 3 406 81%
Week 4 447 89%
Week 5 458 92%
Week 6 466 93%
Week 7 471 94%
Week 8 473 95%


This ramping up process is because you are ADDING the remaining mg that hasn't expired from the last dosage to the next one ... which gradually builds up to a peak around week 7 or 8. Thus, you start getting the full INTENDED effect around that time. You can circumvent this WHOLE ramp up process and frontload. You're goal isn't related to what you inject weekly per se, it's how many ACTIVE mg there are in your body per day. THAT is the important number.

This is the amount you get per week if you DO frontload, and take double your dosage during the first week.

Week 1 394 79%
Week 2 475 95%
Week 3 475 95%
Week 4 475 95%
Week 5 475 95%
Week 6 475 95%
Week 7 475 95%
Week 8 475 95%


All this does is circumvent the lag time in building your weekly release value up to your target usage. This doesn't accelerate the lag of your body to start responding to it. For instance, EQ amongst other things increases RBC, maybe that's part of what takes it a while to fully kick in... but who cares about that, why not just get the full intended volume up to a steady level and go from there?

Check out the “roid calculator”. Experiment on there with different dosages, and frontloading. Set up your normal cycle on there, and see what your residual is on week 8 BEFORE you inject. Essentially, ADD that to 500mg... thats the amount of MG you need in your body to get the daily release value you're targeting.

minimizes the anxious time of waiting for it to kick in and figure out if it’s real or not.


http://www.roidcalc.com/

Remember, there are two factors that control your physical response to the drugs.

1. The daily release/active value...
2. Time for your body to start responding to it.

First, if you take Test-prop, it doesn’t affect you instantly... it takes a little while to kick in, despite its instant bio availability.

On top of that, mg per mg, enanthate is weaker, the ester takes up a greater amount of space/weight, so it's actually about 10% less than prop when considering that factor.

What would be nice is an excel spreadsheet with the formulas imbedded with locked fields for all but the necessary cells for changing the mg and half life. I would definitely make sure it was reflective of Hookers point, which is ACTIVE mg... That's an interesting subject too. :-) If he'd write a post about it… hint hint, nudge nudge.

People generally add a few weeks to cycle length when running long esters so that you actually get MORE weeks AT the intended dosage rather than spending the majority of the time building up to the peak just before quitting. The problem with this in my book is that a week with an abnormal HTPA and atrophying nuts needs damned well to be producing gains. It’s a simple decision, if I’m taking risks, I want rewards.

[hellapimpin]

interesting post.. so would pct be harder if one were to front load?

[Two4the$$]

Nope. It'd be easier in my opinion. Less time with the HTPA down. I'd say frontload and pick the number of weeks you want gains, atrophy of the nutskies, and your HTPA to be down. From there its the same deal.

STRONG WARNING would be NOT to EVER frontload TREN without knowing EXACTLY what your tolerance to it is. Phew! Almost forgot that.

Basically, if you don't know your body's tolerance level to an AAS, start with the short half life version, find your optimal range and THEN graduate to long esters. .They are just more convenient... but shouldn't be so at unnecessary risks... and the unknown is ALWAYS a risk.

[hellapimpin]

i wouldnt frontload with anything but test.

[Two4the$$]

I would frontload EQ. Possibly other things too, after I've tried them. It's just a matter of finding out how much should be in the depot relative to your tolerance.

[Squatman51]

so should you frontload orals such as dbol ?

[Two4the$$]

I DEFINITELY do not intend to be arrogant, or presumptuous. But until there's another frontloading post that has more info than this... lets sticky this, or put it in the edu forums. If this ones not comprehensive enough, someone edit it, or write another one. But lets make this a done deal.

[Two4the$$]

so should you frontload orals such as dbol?

Tell me you're joking, right?

only DEPOT AAS need to be frontloaded.

[Two4the$$]

Anyone else care to contribute to this?

[Doc.Sust]

so it is beneficial to front load prop. even though it is quick acting?

[Two4the$$]

Nope. Not at all what I'm saying. Look at how long it takes prop to get metabolised.

[Doc.Sust]

Nope. Not at all what I'm saying. Look at how long it takes prop to get metabolised.

ok i am confused. so let me get this straight, do not front load prop, or do front load prop?

[Doc.Sust]

bump
anyone?

[Doc.Sust]

bump! answer?

[BlInDsIdE]

the 2 that i've frontloaded b4 are EQ and test

[Gills]

no need to front load prop, most people use prop as a kick start.

[Two4the$$]

no need to front load prop, most people use prop as a kick start.

Exactly. it's the slow releasing esters that need jump starting or frontloading. That'd be like frontloading DBol . lol.

[Doc.Sust]

no need to front load prop, most people use prop as a kick start.

even if test prop is the only testthat you would use for the entire cycle?

[Alpha-Male]

good post bro, sticky this shiznit or put it in the edu threads...

[chest6]

someone please sticky this...i see a million questions about this and i always refer them to truman

[Two4the$$]

even if test prop is the only testthat you would use for the entire cycle?

Even then... no need to frontload it. Again, please re-read those two charts showing the time it takes for the amount injected to = the amount received per week. Remember, the goal with frontloading is to get the exact thing you instantly get from Prop, which is to get released daily the breakdown of what you are injecting per week.

Okay, say you take prop at 100mg per day. That'd be 700mg per week, right? If you injected Enanthate instead at 700mg per week, it'd be 8 weeks before you got the equivalent amount of Test released in comparison to the Prop. Thus, the first 7 weeks, you are ramping up to the value you'd be getting from day one of prop. The reason people don't just do prop instead of enanthate is that frequent jabs suck. Plus, Prop hurts. If you're doing Tren -ace, you may as well use the prop, but if you're doing EQ, keep it less painful. And this is how to get fast results from using a long depot drug to get instant bio-availabability from enanthate.

I hope this helped. Just re-read that first bit a few times... thats what I have to do often. Like I said in the first sentence, my thoughts weren't flowing smoothly, I'm jittery from some clen . lol.

[Two4the$$]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the accolade.

I should mention, my calculations are based on the presumption that the roid calculator produces, which people seem to reference often. I didn't study this, so my half life times are based on that link. If its inaccurate, lots of people will need to know. It's the basis of my cycle planning actually.

[Two4the$$]

Also, Hooker says he calculates dosing on ACTIVE mg. We REALLY need a contribution from him on that.

[Doc.Sust]

Even then... no need to frontload it. Again, please re-read those two charts showing the time it takes for the amount injected to = the amount received per week. Remember, the goal with frontloading is to get the exact thing you instantly get from Prop, which is to get released daily the breakdown of what you are injecting per week.

Okay, say you take prop at 100mg per day. That'd be 700mg per week, right? If you injected Enanthate instead at 700mg per week, it'd be 8 weeks before you got the equivalent amount of Test released in comparison to the Prop. Thus, the first 7 weeks, you are ramping up to the value you'd be getting from day one of prop. The reason people don't just do prop instead of enanthate is that frequent jabs suck. Plus, Prop hurts. If you're doing Tren -ace, you may as well use the prop, but if you're doing EQ, keep it less painful. And this is how to get fast results from using a long depot drug to get instant bio-availabability from enanthate.

I hope this helped. Just re-read that first bit a few times... thats what I have to do often. Like I said in the first sentence, my thoughts are flowing smoothly, I'm jittery from some clen. lol.

thanks for your patience and explanation,now it makes sense to me. only front load the long lasting esther tests. thanks for the detail, great thread.

[Two4the$$]

My pleasure.

[Two4the$$]

Does anyone else know how to calculate for ACTIVE milligrams?

[China Dawg]

I agree with what you're saying about long acting esters. My first cycle was test e at 250 mg twice per week, which I believe is what you're giving as an example. Yes, without front loading you're looking at 8 weeks before your levels stabilize. In the past I did an Excel spreadsheet to do the calculations. However, I calculated the stable level of 250 X 2 to be 985 mg, not 475 mg! Once things stabilize that's how much test e you should have in your system. This only makes sense, since you'll inject 500 mg this week, but still have 250 mg from last week (assuming a 7 day half life), and 125 mg from the week before that, and 62.5 mg from the week before that, etc. 475 is too low.

I disagree with what you're saying about not front loading test prop. I'm on my second test prop cycle as my main injectable. I'm running it at 100 mg/day and I front loaded my current cycle at 200 mg/day for the first two days and 150 mg on the third day. Assuming a half life of 3 days for test prop I was able to bring my levels up to 450 mg (the stable level) by day 3. If I had not done that front load I would not have reached 450 mg until day 10. Now sure that's only 1 week compared to 8 weeks with the test e. However when running a short cycle like you can do with test prop, that one week could be significant. Any way I saw it as worthwhile to front load it....

[Two4the$$]

Thanks for the input on Prop. I almost researched the half life but assumed it was a negligible lag.

With regards however to the enanthate , I think you've confused two phrases; "weekly RELEASED amount," and "total depot amount." You're correct, it'd have to be about 1000mg to release 500. What I was talking about was the functional number, amount released.

Thanks for the input.

[Two4the$$]

Also, the number we're using for the purposes of demonstation in this are a target release value relative to a 500mg cycle, which is a typical dosage for a first-timer. Thus, if you wanted any multiplication thereof, just factor the coefficient in. It's the same. The only time you have to consider changes to this calculation is if you're using something with a different half life.

[China Dawg]

you've confused two phrases; "weekly RELEASED amount," and "total depot amount."

Yeah, you're right. I was working off of the total depot amount. The weekly released amount is basically the same as what you inject each week.... Simple mass balance - once your depot amount has stabilized then you'll be releasing the same amount as what you're injecting.

The only time you have to consider changes to this calculation is if you're using something with a different half life.

Agree, I did calculations on 50 mg/day of test prop compared to 100 mg/day of test prop. The lag time to stable levels was the same - 10 days. Dose didn't matter, what matters is the half life of the steroid . Maybe someone should do these lag time calculations for all common steroids based on half life and post the results. I'm too lazy to do it myself.

[Two4the$$]

Yeah, that'd be nice. I want to know about other factors that affect the lag time of the AAS used to kick in. I guess I'll know in my next cycle, where I'll brew my own gear and front load. No more guess work for me with underdosed or fakes, then waiting till week 5 to find out if its fake.

Thanks for the contribution brotha.

[arnold_of_malta]

so if i inject 500mg test e first week and the other weeks 250mg is that good??????

[hellapimpin]

lol..more like this...first week 1gram..after that..500mg a week

[Two4the$$]

Unless he's committed to that mg protocol. If you are, which is a little less than ideal, yes. You double your first dose.

[Property of Steroid.com]

I DEFINITELY do not intend to be arrogant, or presumptuous. But until there's another frontloading post that has more info than this... lets sticky this, or put it in the edu forums. If this ones not comprehensive enough, someone edit it, or write another one. But lets make this a done deal.

We don't sticky this type of post in this forum...like...all of the stickies are "board" related, not AAS-info related.

[Two4the$$]

What about in the edu threads?

[Swifto]

Would you also suggest frontloading for a 1st time user taking 500mg/wk for 12 weeks?

[Two4the$$]

Well, thats a good question. Most likely. But, the hesitation ... is that you might not like how test feels. I mean, some people have negative sides on it. I always suggest running short esters until you know your tolerance, then switching to the depots.

[Swifto]

Ok so may be not doubling the dosage to 1000mg/wk due to not knowing the Test's effects.

So does that mean a dose of 750mg/wk is more advised for a 1st timer? Would 750mg/wk be benificial at all in the first week?

[Two4the$$]

Have you taken Test before? If not, start with prop for a few days... when you finish your bottle, if things are all good, take a gram of Enanthate the week you stop the prop, unless of course someone has a better idea. transitioning always seems like there would be more calculations involved... but that would be an idea to run past some people.