Adding tren to my cycle

[RuffRyder87]

Is it alright if i add tren to my cycle? I am currently on Test E at 500mg and dbol at 30mg. The test will be ran for 10 weeks. I am in my second week. I was wondering if I could add tren starting at week 5 and continue its use for 10 weeks. So I would run dbol for 4 weeks test for 10 weeks and tren ethanate for 10 weeks starting at week 5.

[Consistency]

yeah at 50mg ED, also run some B-6 with it

[RuffRyder87]

But since the tren has the ester enthanate bound to it, dont i have to only inject twice a week?

[Consistency]

But since the tren has the ester enthanate bound to it, dont i have to only inject twice a week?

oh.. are you using tren enanthate ? i assumed it was acetate. Well in that case i would not run it, because you can only run it for 6 weeks and it takes roughly 4 weeks to kick in

[RuffRyder87]

so why cant i just use the enthanate starting from week 5 and use it till week 15. It takes 4 weeks to kick in so it kicks in around week 9 and then i can use it for 6 weeks so it would be done around week 15.

[Liftgod84]

Tren in some people acts as a downer, so not only making you a little depressed, it will supress your sex drive. SO you could run it, but I would continue with the test if you are going to, but then you are running a hell of a long cycle. Personally I woudl save it for the next one.

[RuffRyder87]

I guess that sounds like a smart plan, but man I hear tren is were its at. I guess it will be something to look forward to for my next cycle.

[Booz]

you could always extend the test till week 16 and run the tren till 15?

[RuffRyder87]

that sounds like a plan, but for my first cycle is this okay to do? How hard could this be on my body. I really would like to do it, but i dont know

[BUYLONGTERM]

First off, what is your cycle history like? Tren is NO FUN, especially for beginners. I would just finish off this cycle and maybe run it with your next.

[Booz]

that sounds like a plan, but for my first cycle is this okay to do? How hard could this be on my body. I really would like to do it, but i dont know

no mate if this is your 1st cycle i would leave the tren out of the equation,very harsh mate,i would save it for a later cycle,just do wat you are doin now nothin else.

[RuffRyder87]

k ill just do what im doing right now

[The Baron]

Tren E is not really for tren newbies. First timers should probably stick to acetate. The short half life means that if side effects get out of hand, you can reduce the dose and lower the sides in a matter of days. Enanthate will take a couple of weeks for the levels in your body to drop significantly and you will then be on a roller coaster as you drop the dose, find you dropped too much, raise it back, etc. With acetate, you can reduce your dose by say 10mg daily for a week, and if necessary, after that week, drop it another 10mg or so. Likewise, if you have NO detectable side effects, you probably are not using enough to get much benefit from it, so you would want to increase the dose by a small increment until you know it is working. Generally this range will be from 50 to 75mg ED but it can vary quite a bit with the individual.

I would save the tren E for later, but not your next cycle. Next cycle you might try some tren acetate, and get used to that, and decide if you like it or not. Then on a subsequent cycle, use the enanthate. With a long ester test and tren ace, you could wait until maybe week 4 or week 5 to start the tren. That way the test is working in your body before the tren shuts you down. You can run the tren ace for up to a week after your last test shot if you like, or just stop them together. With tren E, you can start them at the same time, though I would prefer to get a week or two of test in me first, anyway. Stop the tren E maybe a shot or two before you stop the test. You could stop them together, but I like to have some test in me until after everything else has left my body. Hair splitting, I know, but don't take tren without test or you will probably regret it. Many have and do with some success, but some guys can get away with anything, I guess.

I am wondering if all the hype about tren being liver and kidney toxic is more urban legend than substance... some guys insist that tren should not be run more than 6 or 8 weeks. I have heard of tren being used for 20 weeks and even longer with no ill effects. I don't see a prob with 10 weeks of tren if your doses aren't crazy big. In fact, I would definitely run enanthate at LEAST 10 weeks since it takes so long to build up levels of free trenbolone in your body. Tren ace can be used successfully in shorter cycles, and the 6 week fina/prop cycle is very popular for a short hardening cycle.

[RuffRyder87]

Thanks for the info Baron, but you are saying use tren ace for my next cycle starting at week 5. Since im only in week 2 of this cycle, cant i use tren ace for this cycle?

[RuffRyder87]

bump

[Moosepellet]

Don't run the tren ! Wait a couple of cycles before running it

[RuffRyder87]

I dont understand the reason why I cant run test. I understand the sides are strong but it should be okay to experiment with. Shouldnt it? If its too much I could just stop it.

[RuffRyder87]

bump

[The Baron]

Thanks for the info Baron, but you are saying use tren ace for my next cycle starting at week 5. Since im only in week 2 of this cycle, cant i use tren ace for this cycle?

You could, but since you are using long estered test, it hasn't built up enough free test yet IMHO for best results. When you are shut down by exogenous test, that's okay because you then still have plenty of test. At that point, it doesn't matter what else you begin taking... you can't be shut down any further than completely shut down, and it won't matter because you will have supraphysiological levels of test in your blood. But you don't want the shutdown to occur before you have sufficient free test from injections. Tren will shut you down quick. You will have a week or two where things won't be really optimal. You could try supplementing with some test gel or something, and start right now, and probably get pretty good results. You could also ignore these little anal details and go ahead and start the tren ace, and still probably do okay. A lot of this stuff is just splitting hairs for very small increases in gains. If the big picture is still one of good cycling, training, and nutritional practices, you will get some results even if a few minor details are lacking. I would wait, yes, me. But I'm not you and you ain't me. I just present my opinions and you can pick and choose or reject whatever ones blow your skirt up and no skin off my nose. It's up to you, how close to perfection you want to be and do.

[RuffRyder87]

Thanks Baron for the info. I probably wont run tren this cycle due to a lack of experience, knowlege,and conveience, but just out of curiousity you said u should have enough free test in your body before running tren. Isn't that why it is recommened to run tren after 4 weeks so there is enough test or do u need more free test to keep entering the body? If this is this case, would i have to run my next cycle longer than 10-12 weeks?

[RuffRyder87]

bump

[The Baron]

Thanks Baron for the info. I probably wont run tren this cycle due to a lack of experience, knowlege,and conveience, but just out of curiousity you said u should have enough free test in your body before running tren. Isn't that why it is recommened to run tren after 4 weeks so there is enough test or do u need more free test to keep entering the body? If this is this case, would i have to run my next cycle longer than 10-12 weeks?

Okay, look... the problem is the difference in half life. The test E takes a while to build up in the body. Test Prop doesn't take as long. Tren E takes about the same time to build up free levels as test E. Tren Ace builds up much quicker due to the short ester. You could start test E and maybe a week later start tren E. You could start test E and maybe 4 weeks later start tren A, because the tren A gets to work much quicker so the test needs more head start. You could start test prop and start tren ace a few days later. You could start test prop and start tren E at the same time. To keep things simple, most users will use a short ester test (such as prop) with the short ester tren (acetate), and will often lean toward using long ester test such as C or E with long estered tren, such as tren E. You don't have to do it that way. But if you mix long and short esters, you may need to consider that when you plan your cycle, and allow for the different half lives.

No you can run a 10 or 12 week test/tren cycle. What do you want to do... what test, and what tren? Figure out for yourself when you should start and stop each drug, and let us critique it. Make this a learning experience.

FWIW many users have had decent success with cycles as short as 6 weeks running prop and fina. Some tren-heads have run tren ace or tren E or parabolan for several months. Since you are not going to run tren this cycle, you got plenty of time to research and read the relevant threads. Tren is some amazing stuff, but it can be pretty rough on those who don't understand it and respect it.

[RuffRyder87]

thanks bro

[The Baron]

BTW see Hooker's profile on tren . Great read.

[dragon69]

[QUOTE=The Baron]
You could start test prop and start tren ace a few days later.

many users have had decent success with cycles as short as 6 weeks running prop and fina. QUOTE]

Baron, Is it best to start prop a few days ahead of the tren? If so, like 2 days?

So 6 weeks is Ok? I've heard anywhere from 5 to 12 weeks. What'd you say?

Thanks

[dragon69]

I mean what do you recommend for length IYO?

[dragon69]

bump

[The Baron]

[QUOTE=dragon69]

You could start test prop and start tren ace a few days later.

many users have had decent success with cycles as short as 6 weeks running prop and fina. QUOTE]

Baron, Is it best to start prop a few days ahead of the tren? If so, like 2 days?

So 6 weeks is Ok? I've heard anywhere from 5 to 12 weeks. What'd you say?

Thanks

Yes, I think so. That's what I would do... anywhere from 2 to maybe 5 days should do it. You just want to get some free test built up before the fina hits your hpta and shuts you down. Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe I do a lot of things that don't matter. But that's what I do and I think there is enough benefit from it to make it worth the bother.

Sure, 6 weeks of tren ace is fine. That would be a good introduction to fina. You might get burnt out on the ED injections and need a break after that long, anyway. But I have no problem with running fina for long cycles, at reasonable doses. If there is any doubt, get a blood test. Any HRT clinic will be happy to order it for you from a lab in your area, if you are reluctant to ask your own doc. If your bilorubin etc are ok and nothing else is flagged, you can probably carry on with the tren in confidence.

[dragon69]

Yes, I think so. That's what I would do... anywhere from 2 to maybe 5 days should do it. You just want to get some free test built up before the fina hits your hpta and shuts you down. Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe I do a lot of things that don't matter. But that's what I do and I think there is enough benefit from it to make it worth the bother.

Sure, 6 weeks of tren ace is fine. That would be a good introduction to fina. You might get burnt out on the ED injections and need a break after that long, anyway. But I have no problem with running fina for long cycles, at reasonable doses. If there is any doubt, get a blood test. Any HRT clinic will be happy to order it for you from a lab in your area, if you are reluctant to ask your own doc. If your bilorubin etc are ok and nothing else is flagged, you can probably carry on with the tren in confidence.

Ok a few days advance sounds really good. Maybe 4 days would be best? I was thinking about frontloading it too, but there sure seems to be a difference of opinion about how to frontload. Should it be double dose only for the first shot or for more than that?
like
300mg prop day1
150mg EOD day 3(or5)-on
100mg EOD TrenA
50mg ED Winny Tabs last 50 days

So 6-12 weeks is ok....there have been threads that had several posts saying you needed to go at least 8 weeks, 10-12 for sure. Yet many people I know have run it for 6 weeks.
So Baron I appeal to you (as I love your posts), what do you think is optimal for tren IYO?

[RAM2500]

Tren can be, and usually is very tough to deal with. Tren A should be ran ED to keep the sides to a minimum .If you don’t like the ED shots then you're messing with the wrong AS. One thing is for sure you will see great results fairly quickly. I went off Tren after 3 weeks because the acne was real bad. Tren is potent and yields great results 50mg ED is a good start.

[The Baron]

Yeah, as Ram says, ED only for tren A. And don't front-load tren. You can frontload test or eq or several other AAS but puh-leeze don't frontload tren A! Remember, you want the test built up before the tren goes to work... so why hurry the tren when it goes to work within a week anyway? And the spike in tren levels in your blood will probably give you a genuine case of Fina Fury. Think "roid rage on steroids ", LOL!

If you front-load prop you probably want a prophylactic dose of nolva. You could get a troublesome estrogen spike.

Since I know you are smart enough to shoot the tren ED, you may as well shoot the prop ED as well. And a good frontload on prop would last a week, tapering down to your working dose. Start at 200-300mg day 1 and just reduce it by 25mg or 50mg each shot... something like that. Follow your instincts and pay attention to your sides and what your body is telling you.

[dragon69]

thanks for the advice Baron. I love your posts, ...no nonense at all.
I didn't plan on frontloading tren , I'm not crazy! But I will likely frontload the prop.

Your saying though a prop FL can cause more estrogen conversion than other esters? I have .5mg Arimidex tabs handy though, so should be OK.
Btw, do you think with prop (as opposed to say enanth) I should still run ADex through the whole cycle?

I understand about stable levels and spiking and all, so.....is there really THAT much sides dif with tren ED over EOD?

[Seattle Junk]

I'm just soaking up Baron's knowledge. Don't mind me, I'm just a fly on the wall.

[The Baron]

Your saying though a prop FL can cause more estrogen conversion than other esters? I have .5mg Arimidex tabs handy though, so should be OK.
Btw, do you think with prop (as opposed to say enanth) I should still run ADex through the whole cycle?

I understand about stable levels and spiking and all, so.....is there really THAT much sides dif with tren ED over EOD?

Not necessarily... any test seriously front-loaded has the potential for excessive aromatization. But I would use nolva for prophylaxis rather than arimidex. Save the AI for when/if gyno symptoms appear, and take it alongside an increased dose of nolva. Remember the difference between nolva and aromatase inhibitors... the nolva blocks estrogen. An AI doesn't block estrogen and does nothing to combat estrogen already in the body... it only helps reduce the further formation of estrogen. Also the nolva has beneficial effects besides the est blocking. So I def vote for 10mg of nolva rather than the adex. Save it for if you need it, and just run a low dose of nolva.

For best results with tren , the user walks a fine line between tolerable and manageable sides and intolerable, unmanageable sides. Anything you can do to reduce sides while keeping the overall dosage up, is a good thing. Some users report much worse sides with EOD shots. I have never tried it. I was told ED is the way to go, and I couldn't for the life of me think of any good reason not to shoot ED.

[dragon69]

I was kinda thinking that Adex taken simultaneous or preloaded would prevent the spike when doing the frontload.
Yes it does seem many say ED is best for managing sides. I will give it a thought as to how I can manage that. I don't mind the shot at all, just the fckin prep it takes drawing from each vail, swabbing, etc. Some days there just isn't the time to do it.....unless maybe time of day wasn't a factor so much (think it is) and I could just do 1 where-ever I went.
A preloaded dart wouldn't be a bad idea. It would leak out a little bit no?

[The Baron]

Don't preload... it is no big deal once you have the routine down. If you do prop, you shoot ED anyhow. You shoot tren ED. So just do it. Use good sterile technique and good site rotation. Remember you can stop a prop/fina cycle at any time after about the 6 week mark, to good effect. So if the injections start getting you down, you can cut it short and take a nice long break while you do a pct and take a little time off.

[dragon69]

Ok thanks for the info. I do have another question though that I'd like to see what you think.....
In the tren profile it mentions using T3 to prevent prolactin rise and also to prevent lethargy due to decreased TSH. It's been mentioned here in this forum that using 200mcg B6 prevents prolactin rise as well (and obviously must do so through a similar mechanism-stablized TSH).

Is this to say that B6 is a suitable alternative for T3 during tren administration? I would like see what you have to say from an experience aspect.
What do YOU have to say about this?

[dragon69]

bump for the baron

[The Baron]

Ok thanks for the info. I do have another question though that I'd like to see what you think.....
In the tren profile it mentions using T3 to prevent prolactin rise and also to prevent lethargy due to decreased TSH. It's been mentioned here in this forum that using 200mcg B6 prevents prolactin rise as well (and obviously must do so through a similar mechanism-stablized TSH).

Is this to say that B6 is a suitable alternative for T3 during tren administration? I would like see what you have to say from an experience aspect.
What do YOU have to say about this?

I really don't know. I used B6 along with cabergoline to combat a case of possibly prolactin induced gyno. I don't use B6 as a matter of course... and I actually don't use T3 as a matter of course with tren, either, though I am using it right now with clen . I would highly recomend using both and having bromo or cabergoline on hand if you use deca and tren together, though. I am not sure it is really necessary with reasonable doses of tren in the absence of other prolactin type AAS though. But perhaps someone more knowledgeable on the prolactin vs T3 issue will chime in.

[dragon69]

well, I can tell you....I'm in medicine, so I can tell you that if prolactin doesn't rise then through negative feedback mechanisms TSH should be OK too theoretically. So this is why I'm looking to see if anyone has actually experienced going the B6 route and had it solve the problem. But it should.

What is not clear to me at the moment is what mechanism B6 uses to accomplish this. I really wonder if the B6 just prevents the decrease in thyroxine/triiodothyronine (T4/3), because it really shouldn't have anything to do with the anterior pituitary function at all. Would be interesting to see if tren causes this lowering effect by using up B6 stores.....sounds like an interesting research topic.

Btw, don't use bromocryptine, it can lead to some serious psychological problems that you really don't want! A little Ldex or letro would be a good choice to prevent gyno. (Ldex since estrogen would likely be needed addittionally to cause gyno, not progesterone alone) Nolva alone just won't cut it though.