Steroids , Yea ! But Vitamins ?

[LuKe123]

Hi i was looking for threads on which vitamins i should take with my cycle, However, i could not find any. Im currently on 8 weeks test e 500 mg / wk , nolva 20 mg / day , b6 vitamin 250 mg / day. Once i finish cyle i will continue nolva and b6 vitamin for 2 weeks, then i will begin clomid therapy with clenbuterol . Just needed to know if i should be taking any additional vitamins & for what purposes if i do ? Any suggestion is highly appreciated , Thanx

[_Tiger_]

I like GNC's Mega Man vitamins, they exceed the "Normal" 100% of a lot of different things because body builders need more vitamins than normal I would say

[caddilac]

I like GNC's Mega Man vitamins, they exceed the "Normal" 100% of a lot of different things because body builders need more vitamins than normal I would say

I use those too

[LuKe123]

So i dont have to buy vitamin individually, the mega man vitamin should work for all vitamins is what you guys are saying then ?

[LuKe123]

Would any one care to comment on my cycle by any chance ? I mean am i doing a good cycle for solid mass or not ?

[ianchov]

LuKe123, you should take more Vitamin C( 2 grams per day), also more B12(for apetide and nervouse system) and B5(for the skin).



ps. those recommendations are based on the theory that you take your multi-vitamin pill every day

[LuKe123]

thanx ianchov, but u think i should take the multi vitamin or individual vitamins. i guess my reall question is, which is more effective ?

[ianchov]

Theoretically those giant companies like Universal,GNC make products that,if taken, are much more effective because of the money invested by them to learn the right dosage.
Also this safes time - you should take 1 or 3 pills and you know you are done while on the other side, if you choose to dose each compund by yourself, you would loose an incredible amount of time.
So my recommendations it take those vitamins and as i said more Vitamin C,B5,B12.

[LuKe123]

good stuff iachov, thanx

[needbigguns]

so should bodybuilders take 2 multivitamins a day instead of 1 ? will that do

[_Tiger_]

well the megaman vitamins are dosed so that it says "Take 2 a day"

[Sanecrazy]

The Megaman Vitamins are great they cost a little more but they are superior to other crap like One A Day

[The Baron]

Twice a day, because water soluble vitamins are quickly eliminated from the body. Two multi-vits per day, and supplement with Vit C and if needed for acne, B5, and if needed for progestin issues, B6, and if desired, injected B12.


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[SplinterCell]

I like AST's multi vitamins

[CRUISECONTROL]

I take centrum performance multi-vit 2 per day, 1000mg b12, 1000mg vit c, milk thistle and when on clen 4-5g of taurine and potassium tablets as needed....

[Smak]

Take the pak! Animal Pak that is.

[The Baron]

My ex says she saw a video (studying nursing) that really trashed centrum... said they don't dissolve very well or something. I won't use that brand.


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[thejuiceisloose]

I use a multivit that I only take once a day. Good stuff IMO. Tastes like crap though

[Teegunn]

Centrum or horrid. Mega Men are about the best "male" vitamin on the market. You should take one in the morning and one in the evening. They are time released and more absorbable than most brands out there. They have made a big difference in my overall health and immune system. I sound like a sales pitch. But seriously, they are about the best 25 cents a day you will spend on yourself. I am no fan of GNC, but they do have some of the best quality products out there at times.

[lfrisbee]

Centrum or horrid. Mega Men are about the best "male" vitamin on the market. You should take one in the morning and one in the evening. They are time released and more absorbable than most brands out there. They have made a big difference in my overall health and immune system. I sound like a sales pitch. But seriously, they are about the best 25 cents a day you will spend on yourself. I am no fan of GNC, but they do have some of the best quality products out there at times.

Well said - I'm not a GMC bandwagoner - but this is one of their products thats very good...

[nathanlgd]

Dont want to hujack the thread but - what vitamins are essential on a Test E cycle? I am about to start a similar cycle to this one but for 10 weeks rather than 8. I'll also be using len during PCT.
So what vits are essential?

[The Baron]

C, for sure. B12 (injected preferably) and a good multivitamin.


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[playboii]

I also heard centrum was not good. Gnc Multis are time released and better. Gnc has new multis that are called GNC Multivitamin sport those are more aimed for body builders..
but about the vitamins these are all the vitamins i take ON and off cycle
dhea 25,gnc multi sport,vitamin E,zinc,magnesium,omega complex thats pretty much it

[IronFreakX]

-IM b-12
-10 grams of B5 to lose even more BF, without the regular sides of hunger fatigue etc...
-a good multi (animal pak , mega men)
-10grams of Vit C thru out day...not with pwo meal
-chromium

[wascaptain5214]

i use tuttles "liquid 747" it cost 15 bucks a gallon. all the ammios, minerals and vitamins you can name are in there.....the prob i find is it has a crap load of vitamin A in it. and the taste kinda stays with you all day. you can get it at feed stores. i put a table spoon in my whey protien shakes. anyone else here uses it?

[fitnessNY]

I thought all capsule vitamins are better than tablets because capsules always dissolve. I have been using twinn lab's one a day multi vitamin (capsule). Is the gnc multi better than this?

[musclehead1]

My ex says she saw a video (studying nursing) that really trashed centrum... said they don't dissolve very well or something. I won't use that brand.



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-The Baron-

heard the same thing from the lady at the health food store, she said that for some people it will pass through their body in close to full form.

[CapnZ]

Compare Vitamin Shoppe Ultra Man with GNC's Mega man - it stacks up pretty well and I believe its a quality product. Also I agree with the above - on top of the multi, suppliment with C (ascorbic acid) E (400 iu) - these you need for antioxidant properties as you're doing a lot of muscle damage / repair. Also a good spectrum of B vitamins - folic acid and B6 will help with homocysteine levels (you want to keep those down) and good dose of B3 (niacin, about 1,000 mg) will help with cholesterol if you have issues there.

[ReX357]

What if you crushed the centrums before taking them? Would it help a bit?


I take 2 centrum strong a day

[Dave321]

Interesting read on Vitamen Breakdown found at http://www.hardcorebodybuilding.com/vitamins.htm#top

Trust me, all of this pertains to you if you train, on or off steroids .

The first two vitamins I will go into are vitamin A and the B vitamins (which are many, but I will cover all of them).

VITAMIN A:

Vitamin A will help keep you healthy, give you a lot of antioxidants, and not to mention better eyesight to see your results in the mirror! Night blindness is one of the most prominent symptoms of VITAMIN A deficiency. Now, how it works. VITAMIN A helps you health wise by creating an offense to infections through growing and repairing your body's epithelial cells at a better efficiency. Epithelial cells are the cells that line your digestive tract, lungs, mouth, eyes, nose, throat, and urinary tract among all of your body's internal and external surfaces to keep out germs and the like. In early development, you need VITAMIN A to help grow and build properly; bones, teeth, etc… but in adulthood, you still need it to replace old and damaged tissue cells and to keep your bones and teeth strong and healthy.
So, I mentioned "antioxidants" again. I will give you the run down on them. Antioxidants are enzymes that protect your body from free radicals that bounce around in your body on a cellular level, knocking your cells of balance and destroying them. Antioxidants capture them and escort them out of your body like the bouncer at the local pub escorts out the drunken slob. Free radicals are unstable, destructive oxygen atoms and come from toxins like cigarette smoke, pollution, and even from the things we eat and drink, but with the proper balance of vitamins, you can get rid of them and be healthy.
The source of antioxidants comes mostly from "Carotenes". Carotenes are the largest source of VITAMIN A as well. Roughly 40% of the carotenes you eat are converted into VITAMIN A in your liver and small intestine, as you need it. The rest act as powerful antioxidants. Beta-carotene is especially good at getting rid of free radicals. Carotenes are natural pigments found in plant foods such as tomatoes, carrots, apples, oranges, strawberries, dark green vegetables, yellow vegetables, etc… (I.E. why you need to eat the most colorful of foods to get the most nutrition out of them). All red, green, yellow, orange fruits and veggies as well as potatoes have a good supply of B-carotene in them. In fact, five servings per day of fruits and veggies will give you all the VITAMIN A you need as well as plenty other vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, and fiber, without calories and cholesterol. One molecule of beta-carotene is converted into two molecules of VITAMIN A. VITAMIN A is also found in animal foods such as egg yolks, beef liver, American cheese, Cheddar cheese, butter, swordfish, yogurt, and many others.
Amounts of VITAMIN A in some of these foods for example are 82 RE's (retinal equivalents) per 1 ounce of American cheese, 9,000 Re's for 3 ounces of beef liver, 11 RE's for 3 ounces of salmon, and 35 for 3 ounces of swordfish. Now, the amount of beta-carotene in food is; one apple contains 120 I.U.'s of b- carotene, one banana has 230, 1/2 cup cooked broccoli has 1,940, one medium raw carrot has 8,100 I.U's , one tomato has 1,110, one large peach has 2,030, and one cooked sweet potato has 9,230 I.U.'s! Since VITAMIN A is fat soluble and stored in your liver and fatty tissues, there is the potential of overdosing and getting toxicity, so keep an eye on your intake. Supplement VITAMIN A is really not necessary unless you have a deficiency, you can get plenty from foods. The recommended daily values of VITAMIN A are 1000 - 5000 I.U.'s per day for men and 800 - 4000 for women.

VITAMIN B:

I am going to tell you about the B's now, why you need them, foods that are high in them, and how they protect your body.
As you know, there are twelve B vitamins, I'll get into each of them beginning with B1, but first, why you need them.
All the B's come together to keep you healthy, to grow and reproduce properly, and for sending messages through your nerves from your brain. They are also responsible for converting foods into fuel and thus producing vital energy. Some of the B's also help your heart, keeping it healthy. On their own though, each one does a specific beneficial function in your body, so now we get into them individually.

Thiamin, B1; You need this for better mental function and memory, can you remember this? If not, take some Thiamin! It keeps your cells and nerves working right, regulating their growth, it also converts food into energy. Your body goes through a seriously complex series in converting what you eat into energy. All B's take part in this, whether alone or in conjunction with one another. One step in specific that B1 contributes is an enzymatic process called Thiamin pyrophosphate or TPP. Without Thiamin, you can't make the enzyme, without the enzyme, the whole process stops. As far as your brain and nervous system, your brain runs on glucose, a type of sugar that is made from the carbohydrates you eat. Thiamin helps your brain and nervous system absorb enough glucose. Without it, they absorb about half of what they need, causing you to become forgetful, depressed, lethargic, and apathetic. It also regulates your heart; how strong it pumps, how evenly, and how many beats per minute.
Some ways to tell if you are not getting enough B1. In 1911, scientists isolated Thiamin in the brown husk part of brown rice. Before this, they only knew that there must have been something in it that was beneficial to the body. For about 110 years, people were getting a disease called BeriBeri, a Singhalese word for "I can't, I can't". By the way, Singhalese is spoken in Sri Lanka. When you don't get enough Thiamin, you become tired, forgetful, yada, yada, yada, but when you don't get any, you can't really function at all and could even die. Well, this happened in Asia, in the1800's. Asia began to "polish" the brown rice, making it white rice, at the same time, they were removing the Thiamin from it. It took about 90 years to realize what had happened, since in other areas where people ate only brown rice, people did not get "beriberi". As I mentioned, in 1911 (110 years later) they isolated Thiamin. Beriberi is very uncommon, except in some less developed areas of the world, but we can get a deficiency from it, even though only about 2 - 6 mgs per day are necessary. If you drink a lot of alcohol or tea, or wine, you may need to take more supplements of Thiamin. Alcohol destroys Thiamin, so do the tannins in teas and wine. Also, if you are on any type of metabolic stimulant, you should consider higher doses of Thiamin. Since your metabolism is higher, you will process your vitamins faster and thus need more of them through-out the day. Vitamin B's are water-soluble, so you need not worry about any toxicity from taking too much.
Finding Thiamin in your food. This is not difficult. Obviously brown rice, but all grains and wheat germ, and nuts and seeds. Whole wheat breads, oatmeal, milk, potatoes, cauliflower, asparagus, raisins, oranges, peas, and beans. Beef liver and pork are also good sources of Thiamin, though there is some in all beef and chicken.
A good rule for your dose is around 0.5 - 1.0mgs per 1,000 calories you eat, with a minimum of 1.0 mgs per day. If you are taking them in the form of a supplement, it should be taken with meals for best results.


Thiamin In Food Food Amount Thiamin in mg
Asparagus, steamed 1 cup 0.12
Bagel 1 0.21
Beans, black 1/2 cup 0.21
Beans, black 1/2 cup 0.14
Beef, lean 3OZ 0.05
Beef liver 3OZ 0.23
Bread, whole wheat 1 slice 0.09
Cashews 3OZ 0.08
Chicken, roasted 3OZ 0.06
Corn 1/2 cup 0.18
Green peas 1/2 cup 0.21
Ham 3OZ 0.82
Milk, nonfat 1 cup 0.09
Oatmeal 1 cup 0.26
Orange 1 0.13
Peanuts 3OZ 0.36
Pecans 3OZ 0.27
Pork, roasted 3OZ 0.52
Potato 1 medium 0.22
Raisins 1 cup 0.21
Rice, brown 1 cup 0.20
Wheat germ 1/4 cup 0.55

Functions of Thiamin: Energy, Brain functions, Nervous System, Moods.

Riboflavin, B2; this is very important for releasing energy from the foods you eat as well. It is also important for regulating red blood cells, and hormones, as well as your growth and development. Since B2 helps in the production of red blood cells, it therefore adds increasing energy to your day and workout.
Much of what riboflavin does is in conjunction with other B's. Basically, it leads to higher energy on cellular levels, but leads to better health from lining your membranes and producing cells that lead to a better immune system, respiratory system, and digestive system. Your RDA is about 2.0mgs per day, but a good dose is around 0.6 - 1.5 mgs per 1,000 calories you eat. Riboflavin is found in many foods, mostly meats and dairy foods. Sunlight destroys Riboflavin, so keep your breads, pastas, grains, milk, and cheeses in opaque containers and out of sunlight (though why would you have your milk or cheese in the sun? Just mentioning it). Most flour and cereals are enriched with riboflavin. Some meats that have Riboflavin are beef liver, ground beef, chicken breasts, roasted pork, salmon; canned, and turkey breasts. Milk and cheese are very high in Riboflavin.
If you exercise a lot and hard, you will need to take more Riboflavin, but this is true with any and all vitamins. Since you are metabolizing and burning more energy at increased levels, it only makes sense that you will need to replenish your nutrients more. Some athletes report that taking Riboflavin supplements helped them during workouts with more energy, but also that it reduced the resting period or that they seemed to recover better and faster. Now, if you are taking something like Clenbuterol or Triacana , or perhaps Dermalean (a Tiratricanol product), you will need to think about supplementing your nutrients since these are all metabolic stimulants. Some things that Riboflavin helps with; energy, migraines, and eye-strain. If you are taking it in the form of supplements, it should be taken with meals for best results.

Functions of Riboflavin: Energy, Energy, Energy, Red Blood Cells, Immune System, making all other B's work.

Niacin, B3; A very important VITAMIN as it contributes to more than 50 processes in your body, from releasing energy, making hormones, regulating cholesterol, and detoxification, your body needs Niacin.

There are two ways to get your daily intake of Niacin, by actually getting Niacin in foods or by converting the protein into amino-acids, one of the amino-acids is Tryptophan. Tryptophan is one of the nine essential amino-acids. You can only get it from your food. Eat a lot of proteins and you will get a lot of Tryptophan. Your body uses about half of the Tryptophan for making some of the more than 50,000 proteins you need. Only about half of your Niacin comes directly from the food you eat, the rest comes from Tryptophan. It takes about 60mgs of Tryptophan to make 1mg of Niacin. You need around 6.0 - 10.0 mgs of Niacin per 1,000 calories of food you eat, but at least 13 mgs per day. The average healthy male should have about 20mgs per day.

NIACIN AMOUNT NIACIN IN MGS
Almonds, roasted 1 oz .08
Asparagus 1/2 cup 1.0
Avocado 1/2 medium 1.5
Bagel 1 1.9
Beef, ground 3 oz 4.0
Beef, liver 3 oz 10.0
Bread, whole wheat 1 slice 1.0
Chicken Breast 3 oz 8.5
Turkey Breast 3 oz 8.5
Cottage Cheese, Low Fat 1 cup 0.3
Cream of Wheat 3/4 cup 1.1
Flounder 3 oz 2.5
Milk, low fat 1 cup 0.2
Mushrooms, cooked 1/2 cup 3.5
Nectarine 1 medium 1.3
Peanut butter 2 tablespoons 3.8
Peanuts, dry roasted 1 oz 3.8
Tuna, canned in water 3 oz 11.3
Pork, roasted 3 oz 1 medium 5.5
Potato, baked 1 medium 3.3
Rice, brown 1 cup 3.0
Rice, white 1 cup 3.0
Rice, wild 1 cup 2.1
Salmon, canned 3 oz 5.0



TRYPTOPHAN IN FOODS AMOUNT TRYPTOPHAN IN MGS
avocado 1 medium 45
Banana 1 medium 14
Beef, ground 3 oz 243
Black Beans 1 cup 181
Beef liver 3 oz 301
Cheddar Cheese 1 oz 91
Chicken Breast 3 oz 326
Turkey, without skin 3 oz 267
Cottage Cheese, Low Fat 1 cup 312
Dates, dried 10 42
Egg 1 large 76
Flounder 3 oz 230
Milk 1 cup 113
Oatmeal 1 cup 84
Peanuts, dry roasted 1 oz 64
Pear 1 medium 17
Tuna, canned in water 3 oz 243

Niacin helps lower blood pressure levels, in fact, if you are on medicine for high blood pressure, do not take any Niacin supplements, it will drop your pressure way too low. There are two types of Niacin supplements to buy, Niacinamide and Nicotinic acid. Choose Niacinamide if you really think you need a supplement (you really should not though), but don't take too much. Even 100mgs can cause heartburn and nausea and headaches. Nicotinic acid is used mostly by doctors for high blood cholesterol patients.

Functions of Niacin: Lowers blood pressure, works with all other B's, converts proteins, and even helps women with PMS headaches (which could in turn be healthy for the guy as well!).

Pantothenic acid, B5; this vitamin works in close proximity to the other B's in the breakdown process of fats, proteins, and carbohydrates into energy. It also makes vitamin D as well as red blood cells and some hormones.

This one is simple. It does it's job of converting food into energy, making red blood cells, and vitamin D. It doesn't do a lot more and you get the 2 - 4 mgs per day easily in almost everything you eat.

Pyroxidine, B6; very important to bodybuilders. It's main function is to appropriate all of your amino-acids to make the more than 5,000 proteins that your body needs in order to run properly. Not only that, it plays a role in making more than 60 different enzymes. Remember enzymes? They are those little workers that speed up all of your chemical reactions, like what a Mallory Ignition does to your 350 big block, now we're cook'n with grease! Proteins and enzymes, yeah baby, yeah!

With a mere two milligrams per day, you will make more than 60 different enzymes, help your immune system, produce red blood cells, and keep your nerves healthy. That's just two milligrams a day! Add a little more and just think of what you could do. Doubling your Pyridoxine intake could make a big difference in the health of your heart, your immune system, even asthma and diabetes! Hey, it will even help with PMS in women!

What Pyridoxine does on the cellular level is very important. It is needed to convert the proteins in your food into the proteins your body needs and to convert carbohydrates from the kind you store into the ones you need and use for energy. The daily intake should be around 0.020 - 0.050 mgs per gram of protein you eat. The average person eats somewhere between 120 - 150 grams of protein per day which would make your Pyridoxine intake about 2.4 - 7.5mgs per day.



PYRIDOXINE IN FOOD AMOUNT PYRIDOXINE IN MGS
Apricots, dried 10 halves 0.06
Avocado 1/2 medium 0.40
Banana 1 medium 0.66
Beef, ground 3 oz 0.17
Beef liver 3 oz 0.78
Black Beans 1 cup 0.12
Cheddar Cheese 1 oz 0.02
Chicken Breast 3 oz 0.34
Cottage Cheese, Low Fat 1 cup 0.15
Flounder 3 oz 0.20
Mango 1 medium 0.28
Milk, Low Fat 1 cup 0.10
Pork, roasted 3 oz 0.39
Potato, with skin 1 medium 0.70
Prunes, dried 10 0.22
Raisins, golden 2/3 cup 0.32
Rice, brown 1 cup 0.28
Rice, white 1 cup 0.19
Sweet Potato, baked w/ skin 1 medium 0.28
Tuna, canned in water 3 oz 0.30
Turkey breast, w/skin 3 oz 0.28
Wheat Germ 1/4 cup 0.38
Yogurt, low fat 8 oz 0.11
Navy Beans 1 cup 0.30

Functions of Pyridoxine: A healthy, healthy, heart, a strong immune system, helps with depression, morning sickness, and converting stored sugar into energy.


Biotin, B7; sometimes called vitamin H, it is yet another vitamin that leads to energy release from the food we eat. Biotin is found in many foods, but mostly in Beef liver, egg yolks, nuts, and whole grains. There is no RDA for Biotin, you can easily get what you need.

BIOTIN IN FOOD AMOUNT BIOTIN IN MCGS
Banana 1 medium 6
Beef liver 3 oz 82
Brewer's yeast 3 oz 73
Eggs 1 large 10
Oatmeal, cooked 1 cup 9
Peanut Butter 2 tablespoons 12
Rice, brown 1/2 cup 9
Rice, white 1/2 cup 2

Functions of Biotin: Hair loss, Biotin helps hair loss only if you are losing it due to a lack of Biotin. Some hair shampoos and conditioners have Biotin in them, though, it really won't do anything. If you are losing hair because of a Biotin deficiency, it will grow back when you take in more Biotin, but if you are losing it because of your traits, tough luck.. It helps make your fingernails stronger, and of course works in conjunction with all the other B's for energy and conversions of protein.

Folic acid, B9; another very important vitamin as it number one, grows and divides your cells properly, preventing birth defects. It also leads to what your moods are, what your appetite is like, how well you sleep, and is vital for keeping your arteries clean and open, thus lowering your chance of a heart attack. A definite for a bodybuilder, a good appetite and sleep regimen is a must.

You might not know that your body replaces millions of red blood cells and other cells such as skin cells and mucous membrane cells every day, but it does. Folic acid is important in replacing all of these cells for a healthier body and to fight off sicknesses. The RDA for Folic Acid is 200mcgs per day, but this is really much too low. A person should take 800mcgs per day, if you are nursing, breastfeeding, drink a lot of alcohol or smoke, you will definitely want at least 800mcgs, probably more.

[Dave321]

FOLIC ACID IN FOOD AMOUNT FOLIC ACID IN MCGS
Asparagus 1/2 cup 132
Avocado 1/2 medium 56
Banana 1 medium 22
Beets, cooked 1/2 cup 45
Black Beans 1 cup 256
Black-eyed Peas 1 cup 123
Bread, whole wheat 1 slice 14
Broccoli, cooked 1/2 cup 39
Brussels sprouts, cooked 1/2 cup 47
Cantaloupe 1 cup 27
Collard greens, cooked 1/2 cup 65
Lima beans, baby 1 cup 273
Beef liver 3 oz 200
Chicken liver 3 oz 660
Lentils 1 cup 358
Kidney beans 1 cup 229
Navy beans 1 cup 255
Orange 1 medium 47
Peanuts, dry roasted 1 oz 41
Romaine lettuce 1/2 cup 38
Spinach, raw 1/2 cup 54
Spinach, cooked 1/2 cup 131
Wheat germ 1/4 cup 82
Chick peas 1 cup 282

Functions of Folic Acid: Replenishing and replacing your body's cells, working with all other vitamin B's for better health.

Cobalamin, B12; The necessity of B12 is the processing of carbohydrates, proteins, and fats in your food into energy. It also forms the protective covering of your nerve cells and keeps your red blood cells healthy, and helps prevent heart disease. Cobalamin prevents anemia since it produces fine, healthy rounded red blood cells which carry your oxygen and nutrients around your body. It also produces all the cells in your immune system along with your white blood cells. You need around 500 - 1,000 mcgs per day, though the RDA will say much less.

COBALAMIN IN FOOD AMOUNT COBALAMIN IN MCGS
Beef, ground 3 oz 2.1
Beef liver 3 oz 68.0
Cheddar Cheese 1 oz 0.23
Chicken leg 1 medium 0.35
Chicken liver 3 oz 16.6
Clams, steamed 3 oz 84.06
Cottage Cheese, low fat 1 cup 1.43
Egg 1 large 0.56
Flounder 3 oz 2.13
liverwurst 1 slice 2.42
Milk, low fat 8 oz 0.90
Swiss Cheese 1 oz 0.48
Tuna, light 3 oz 2.54
Yogurt, low fat 8 oz 1.28


Functions of Cobalamin: Healthy red blood cells, healthy linings to your immune system, nerves, and inner membranes.

That was a list of the "official B's", as you noticed, not all the little numbers were present in order. The "unofficial B's" are as follows.

Choline; This vitamin is used by your brain in storing memory. It is being introduced for treating depression and hepatitis.

Inositol; this vitamin also helps in maintaining healthy cell membranes and messenger chemicals. It also helps repair nerve damage from diabetes.

PABA; (Para-AminoBenzoic Acid) This you may or may not know, is found in many sun blockers. It is a powerful anti-oxidant that protects your skin form sun damage.

Lipoic acid; this helps vitamins B 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 convert carbs, proteins, and fats into energy. As well, it is a powerful anti-oxidant and recycles vitamin C and E.

That's it for the B family. You may be wondering why B4, B8, B10, and B11 were not mentioned by number. Well, the first B vitamin to be discovered was called "water soluble" and meant that it was only the second vitamin ever identified (the first being fat soluble). Riboflavin was discovered next, so "water-soluble B" became "B1" and Riboflavin became "B2". Later, researchers realized that B1 was actually two vitamins, Thiamin and Niacin. Thiamin kept the B1 name, B2 was already taken, so Niacin became B3. Research continued and scientists found many substances they thought were new B vitamins, some turned out to be the same as the B's that were already discovered and some not to be vitamins at all. These unofficial B's are the ones thought to be "new vitamins" and also have no RDA value.

None of the "unofficial" B's have an RDA.

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VITAMIN C:

What doctors use to scoff at, they now endorse with all their might. Twenty years ago, Vitamin C had many claims; protection against cataracts (while on DNP ?), heart disease, cancer, and many other medical problems, not to mention over all health against common colds and such.

Since Vitamin C is responsible for more than 300 purposes in your body, everything from being the top anti-oxidant, producing collagen, keeping your immune system in top shape, curing some male infertility problems, lowering blood pressure, fighting allergies and asthma, and relieving stress, it only stands to reason to take it as a supplement (maybe more so if on steroids ).

One good point I made above, Vitamin C produces Collagen. Collagen is essentially the "adhesive" that holds your body together. It is the connective tissue that holds your muscles to your skeleton, your skin to your muscles, and thus, keeps you together. This may not mean much to you, but it also is needed to heal injuries faster. Getting your attention now? If Collagen will help heal sprained joints, broken bones, cuts, and other injuries, then would it not make sense that it will mean a better and faster muscle recovery after a workout? And what about all those days we are too sick to go to the gym? Vitamin C fights these sicknesses and strengthens your immune system. If you are on steroids, your blood pressure may go up significantly right? Vitamin C will help keep it low (as will the B's, remember?). Another good point is asthma. Number one, Vitamin C helps lower your histamine levels, which, if high enough, will trigger an allergy attack and thus introduce an asthma attack. Secondly, it is the best anti-oxidant around, so it will help protect your lungs and airways against dust, pollen, and pollution through the elimination of your free radicals. Vitamin C is also said to protect against cancer and Parkinson's Disease, but we will not dwell there as it doesn't pertain to your life as a body builder. Gingivitis though, is another problem that taking some extra Vitamin C can help with, this means when you are nice and huge, your mouth will be kissable to all the babes. The last point on vitamin C I will make is somewhat of a big one. Men, how's your sperm count? We know that taking steroids can lower it, or maybe you just have a low count as it is. Vitamin C can significantly raise your sperm count by taking care of all those free radicals that destroy your cells and because there is more higher levels of Vitamin C in your seminal fluid than there is in your blood, thus protecting it. Though it may not help raise your levels so much when your testosterone production is low, it will save the ones that you do produce. This Vitamin is water soluble, so it is necessary to take it daily. How much to take is the question at hand now. The RDA is a mere 60mgs, Doctors and nutritionists believe that is far too low, I agree with them. The docs and nutritionists say 250 to 500 mgs per day is what you should have, but I think for body builders, that 1000 - 2000mgs per day is appropriate. Remember, it is water soluble, so any extra will just wash out of your system with your fluids.

VITAMIN D:

Vitamin D is the eccentric uncle of the vitamin family-it does things its own way. To get all the other vitamins, you have to eat them. To get Vitamin D, all you have to do is go outside. That's because you actually make Vitamin D when the sun shines on your skin. How? Basically, the ultraviolet light in the sunshine makes a type of cholesterol that's
found just under your skin turn into something called Vitamin D 3 or cholecalciferol. The Vitamin D 3 gets carried to your liver, where it gets changed into a more active form; from there, it goes to your kidneys, where it becomes even more active. Some of the Vitamin D 3 stays in your liver and kidneys, where it helps you reabsorb calcium from your blood. Some goes to your bones to help them hold on to their calcium. The rest goes to your intestines to help you absorb calcium from your food.
Even eccentric uncles act normal sometimes, though-and so does Vitamin D. It's found naturally in a few foods, but in a slightly different form called Vitamin D., or ergocalciferol. Your body can use this just as well-in fact, it's the form that's used in most Vitamin
D supplements.

VITAMIN D
IN FOOD AMOUNT VITAMIN D IN UI'S
BUTTER 1 PAT 2
CHEDDAR CHEESE 1 OUNCE 2.8
COD LIVER OIL 1 TEASPOON 460
EGG 1 LARGE 25
HERRING, FRESH 3 OUNCES 270
BEEF LIVER 3 OUNCES 26
MACKEREL, FRESH 3 OUNCES 943
MARGARINE 1 TABLESPOON 21
MILK 8 OUNCES 100
SALMON, FRESH 3 OUNCES 350
SARDINES, CANNED 3 OUNCES 1,000

If you spend a lot of time outside, your body will automatically stop making Vitamin D after it has stored up enough. Vitamin D is fat soluble, so remember it is stored. You can't overdose or have too much Vitamin D on your own since your body will stop producing it, but you can take too much with supplements and doing that with Vitamin D is dangerous. You can build up calcium in your blood and increase your risk of a heart attack or kidney problems. Spending ten minutes in the sun a day during summer is quite enough, but if you spend every day in the sun for a long time, you will easily store up enough Vitamin D for the entire winter. However, if you don't spend a lot of time in the sun, even in the summer, you could be low on Vitamin D. Most people get between 50 and 70 IU's per day in their diet, but if you don't spend much time in the sun (your office window doesn't count, glass blocks ultraviolet rays) then taking a Vitamin D supplement would be a good idea. If you do this, keep your intake below 1,000 IU's per day, the RDA is 200.

Vitamin D's most important function is to regulate how much Calcium you absorb from your foods. Remember the importance of Calcium? Well, it won't work with out Vitamin D. Are you starting to realize the importance of taking all of your Vitamins yet? They all seem to work very closely with one another, eh? They indeed are very important, all of them.

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VITAMIN E:

Vitamin E is pretty simple to go through. It really is an antioxidant, which works with Vitamin A and C in ridding your body of the cellular vandals running around in there. It is very good for heart condition too, as it will reduce the risk of heart disease and heart attacks. That is really what it does, so this one is a short one. The RDA is about 10mg, but really depends on how big you are, how much fat you have in your diet, etc.. since Vitamin E breaks down fat and also breaks down the platelets in your arteries that cause heart attacks (those platelets come from high cholesterol and fat). So that is Vitamin E in a nut shell, in fact it is, Vitamin E is found in nuts; almonds, hazelnuts, peanuts, and sunflower seeds (well, they're in a shell).

VITAMIN K:

This one too is simple to cover. Vitamin K is what makes your blood clot and stop pouring out of you. So, while you are cursing, swearing, and punching things when you get hurt, your body is doing it's job with Vitamin K, and of course all the others, in healing your injury and getting you back on the road. There really is no shortage or deficiency of Vitamin K, the RDA is around 65 to 80 mcgs. It is found in plant foods.

AMINO ACIDS:

Amino Acids are a much talked about subject, but what is being said? Take them and you will get big? Do we really know what they are? Lets find out and see why we need them in our diets and workouts.

We know the body is so very complex, making millions of cells, hormones, antioxidants, enzymes, and chemical messengers every second of every day. So, how are all of these made? They are made or "built" from the "building blocks" called Amino Acids. There are twenty-two of them total, but do such an array of different functions and make thousands of these enzymes, hormones, etc... by forming different combinations with one another. Where do we get Amino Acids? From the protein in our food, which in essence, are long chains of Amino Acids. Every cell in your body is made from Amino Acids. Everything but your teeth and bones is made from the different combinations of Amino Acids. If you can't believe that just twenty-two Amino Acids can make every cell, hormone, enzyme, antioxidant, and messenger in your body, think about our entire language being made from just 26 letters. Well, it's that simple.

Now, out of these twenty-six Amino Acids, you have essential aminos and non-essential aminos. There are nine essential aminos; Histidine, Isoleucine, Leucine, Lysine, Methionine, Phenylalanine, Thronine, Tryptophan, and Valine. The non-essentials are; Alanine, Arganine, asparagine, Aspartic acid, Carnitine, Cysteine, Glutamic acid, Glutamine, Glycine, Proline, Serine, Taurine, and Tyrosine. You know how the receptors work in receiving steroids, right? Remember, like a "lock and key", well, that's how these work. Your DNA tells your body which Amino Acids to put together for a specific protein, this could mean two or three combinations or a thousand combinations, but when it is made, it comes together with other proteins and only those of which it was made to go with, like a lock and key. Once aminos are linked together, they form proteins or chains, a "peptide" for example takes two or three aminos. Another example you can relate to is Arganine combined with Methionine and Glycine forms "Creatine". So we can dispel the theory of creatine in the fact that your body can only use so much of it and most people are low in these Amino Acids. So, the results people see are true enough, but it is only because they are supplementing their aminos with this creatine and taking a lot of it will not do anything. In fact, you could go to your health store and pick up some "free form" Amino Acids and take them with better results probably. Another good combination is Carnitine, made from Lisine and Methionine, it helps your heart work more efficiently. In fact, your heart contains more Carnitine than any other part of your body. It converts fatty acids into energy in the mitochondria. This protein is very helpful to those with angina or heart failure. It also helps with "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome" and depression, giving you more energy and a better sense of well being. Something we all want, right? It also lowers your LDL (bad cholesterol) and raises your HDL (good cholesterol). Very important stuff here. Remember, Proteins come from animal foods, meat, eggs, milk, etc... In fact, these are complete, meaning they contain all nine essential aminos. You can get aminos from plant foods, but it is incomplete or only has a few of them and not all nine essentials. Go to your health food store and check out the free form Amino Acids and make a good "stack" for your workouts. There are many many important things that Amino Acids do, from muscle gains to quality sleep to a better immune system.

[Oceans7]

WOW!! Great stuff Justin. What abouit these:

Milk Thistle Liver protection
Alpha-lipoic acid Liver protection
Glutathione Liver protection
Silymarin Liver protection
Red Yeast Rice Liver protection, lowers LDL
Chromium picolinate Minerals
Magnesium glycinate Minerals
Zinc Minerals VERY IMP mineral that is a natural aromatase enzyme inhibitor

[Dave321]

Milk Thistle:http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-...lk_thistle.htm

This amazing herb is used to treat diabetes, liver failure, and IBD.

Milk thistle can be purchased in powder, capsule, and liquid extract form.

Milk thistle (Silybum marianum) is a flowering plant in the Aster family. A native of Europe, it has been used since the time of the Roman emperors as a liver tonic. Milk thistle is one of very few traditionally used herbs that has been widely accepted by conventional science to have significant medicinal value.

Today we know the active ingredient of milk thistle seed extract as a flavonoid compound called “silymarin.” Most milk thistle extracts available today contain about 80 percent silymarin.

Uses in canines

Silymarin, which is itself a combination of several other active compounds, has been extensively studied around the world, and has been shown to be safe and effective in treating a variety of liver diseases and other conditions. It specifically protects the liver against toxins (including some drugs and heavy metals), activates protein synthesis, and stimulates growth of new liver cells to replace those that are dead or damaged. Milk thistle also has strong antioxidant (destroys oxygen free radicals) and anti-inflammatory actions.

Silymarin reaches high levels in the bile and liver (it also reaches significant levels in the lungs, pancreas, prostate, and skin). It can be used in the treatment of hepatic lipidosis, chronic hepatitis, cholangitis (inflammation of the bile ducts), and pericholangitis (inflammation of the tissue around the bile ducts). It may be useful in preventing or treating gallstones by thinning the bile. Many dogs with inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) have concurrent inflammation of the liver/bile system and the pancreas. This suite of symptoms is called “triaditis.” Because milk thistle’s beneficial actions concentrate on the liver and bile systems, it may also be helpful in dogs with IBD.

Milk thistle should be considered as an aid to healing after drug therapy, vaccinations, and infections such as canine parvovirus, as well as an potential adjunct treatment for cancer. Researchers at Case Western University concluded from their work that “silymarin possesses exceptionally high protective effects against tumor promotion . . . ” One human study even suggests a role for milk thistle in diabetes mellitus through its normalizing effects on red blood cells. It may also help prevent diabetic neuropathy, a common complication of the disease that causes degeneration of the nerves controlling the hind limbs, which consequently produces weakness and an abnormal gait.

Milk thistle generally supports the immune system through its powerful antioxidant, free-radical scavenging action, its ability to preserve the supply of another important antioxidant, glutathione, as well as direct effects on immune cells. Glutathione, which is stored primarily in the liver, naturally declines over time, and depletion of this protein appears to accelerate the aging process.

While it’s not exactly the fountain of youth, milk thistle clearly has wide-ranging positive effects throughout the body. However, before you add this potent herb to your dog’s daily regimen “just in case” it might do some good, it’s important to consider that some herbalists believe milk thistle is best reserved as a treatment for existing disease, rather than being used by itself in a healthy dog.

While moderate use of milk thistle is very safe, there is some experimental evidence to suggest that long-term ingestion of very high dosages of milk thistle will eventually suppress liver function.

[Dave321]

Alpha Lip. Acid.... http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshel...,10002,00.html

In addition to functioning as an antioxidant, this hard-working nutrient assists the B vitamins in producing energy from the proteins, carbohydrates, and fats consumed through foods.

Intravenous forms of alpha-lipoic acid are administered in hospitals to treat cases of acute mushroom poisoning and for other cases of acute poisoning that affect the liver.

Studies indicate that alpha-lipoic acid supplements hold promise for treating various disorders, including HIV infection, liver ailments, and glaucoma. But it has been most intensively studied for preventing complications from diabetes.

Specifically, alpha-lipoic acid may help to:


Treat symptoms of nerve damage in people with diabetes. Alpha-lipoic acid has been used for decades in Europe to counter nerve damage in people with diabetes (types 1 and 2). Known as diabetic neuropathy, this often very painful condition tends to develop in people who have had uncontrolled diabetes for a long time. The neuropathy may be caused in part by free-radical damage to nerves resulting from poorly regulated blood sugar (glucose). As an antioxidant, alpha-lipoic acid helps to block such damage. In addition, because of its effect on glucose metabolism, lipoic acid my improve the glucose-lowering action of insulin (the hormone that regulates blood sugar).
In one clinical trial, 328 people with diabetic neuropathy received either 100 mg, 600 mg, or 1,200 mg a day of alpha-lipoic acid for three weeks. Participants who took 600 mg daily had the greatest reduction in pain and numbness. And in a separate study, blood sugar levels dropped in 74 people with type 2 diabetes who took 600 mg or more of alpha-lipoic acid daily.

Alpha-lipoic acid may also aid the large percentage (approximately 25%) of people with diabetes who risk sudden death from nerve-related heart damage. In one study, improved heart function was observed in people at risk for this complication who took 800 mg of alpha-lipoic acid daily for four months.


Preserve brain function in aging adults. Results from animal studies indicate that alpha-lipoic acid may improve long-term memory. Much remains to be learned about whether this occurs in humans, but it may be worth trying this powerful antioxidant when a disease such as Alzheimer's starts to erode memory. In addition, alpha-lipoic acid holds promise for preserving brain cells following a stroke or other type of trauma that restricts blood flow to the brain.

Prevent cancer. As an antioxidant, alpha-lipoic acid holds promise for protecting the body against changes in healthy cells that lead to cancer. The evidence for this cancer-preventive effect is still preliminary, however.

Lessen numbness and tingling. Alpha-lipoic acid may benefit anyone whose limbs tend to tingle or become numb, or "fall asleep" due to nerve compression. In animal studies, alpha-lipoic acid increased blood flow to the nerves and improved transmission of nerve impulses.

Protect the liver in cases of hepatitis and other types of liver disease. As an antioxidant, alpha-lipoic acid shields the liver from potentially harmful cell changes and assists it in flushing toxins from the body. This makes it useful in treating such liver disorders as chronic hepatitis and cirrhosis. Alpha-lipoic acid supplements have also proved effective in minimizing liver toxicity following exposure to poisons such as heavy metals (including lead) and toxic industrial chemicals such as carbon tetrachloride.

Combat chronic fatigue syndrome. Because it plays a part in cellular energy production, some nutritionally oriented physicians recommend alpha-lipoic acid for the treatment of chronic fatigue syndrome. While evidence of its effectiveness for this condition is anecdotal, alpha-lipoic acid is a broad-spectrum antioxidant and immune system booster. This means it may be able to play a valuable role in increasing energy and maintaining overall health in chronic fatigue syndrome sufferers.

Reduce the incidence of cataracts. Alpha-lipoic acid has kept cataracts from forming in animals, an effect that may occur in humans, too, but still requires more investigation. The compound also increases the potency of vitamins C and E, both nutrients that protect the eye's lens from harmful ultraviolet light.

[Dave321]

Glutathione- http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/aminoaci...utathione.html

Glutathione is actually a tripeptide made up the amino acids gamma-glutamic acid, cysteine, and glycine. The primary biological function of glutathione is to act as a non-enzymatic reducing agent to help keep cysteine thiol side chains in a reduced state on the surface of proteins. Glutathione is also used to prevent oxidative stress in most cells and helps to trap free radicals that can damage DNA and RNA. There is a direct correlation with the speed of aging and the reduction of glutathione concentrations in intracellular fluids. As individuals grow older, glutathione levels drop, and the ability to detoxify free radicals decreases.

[Dave321]

got a meeting.. gotta run... easy to find the rest of those by doing a google search.

[Dave321]

Silymarin- similar substance to milk thistle. The flavonoids in milk thistle are silybin, silydianin, and silychristin. Together, they are called silymarin

[Dave321]

Red Yeast Rice- http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshel...,10054,00.html

As a substance, red yeast rice extract has a number of heart-healthy benefits: It seems to help reduce total cholesterol levels, lower levels of LDL ("bad") cholesterol, increase levels of HDL ("good") cholesterol, and lower levels of unhealthy fats called triglycerides. It appears to accomplish this by restricting the liver's production of cholesterol. The compound responsible for this effect--mevinolin--is chemically identical to the cholesterol-lowering compound lovastatin, which is sold as the prescription drug Mevacor. Hence the action by the FDA. Mevinolin is also similar to the active ingredients in other cholesterol medications such as Zocor (simvastatin) and Lipitor (atorvastatin). Unsaturated fatty acids in red yeast rice extract are also believed to be beneficial, possibly by lowering triglycerides.

By lowering cholesterol concentrations, red yeast rice extract may help to prevent heart disease and some of its complications. Individuals with moderately elevated cholesterol levels (200 to 239 mg/dL) may benefit from a dietary supplement such as red yeast rice extract. However, those with very high cholesterol levels (240 mg/dL or above) are at considerable risk for heart disease and should stick to prescription drugs with a proven ability to rapidly and effectively reduce cholesterol levels.

[Dave321]

Chromium-http://www.ahealthyme.com/topic/chromium
Chromium, found in tiny amounts in most foods, works like a key to unlock insulin . Without this nutrient, insulin is much less effective at controlling blood sugar, building proteins, or performing any of its other jobs. If you don't get enough chromium in your diet -- and studies suggest the average American falls short -- you may be more likely to develop high blood sugar and high cholesterol.

[Oceans7]

Glutathione- http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/aminoaci...utathione.html

Glutathione is actually a tripeptide made up the amino acids gamma-glutamic acid, cysteine, and glycine. The primary biological function of glutathione is to act as a non-enzymatic reducing agent to help keep cysteine thiol side chains in a reduced state on the surface of proteins. Glutathione is also used to prevent oxidative stress in most cells and helps to trap free radicals that can damage DNA and RNA. There is a direct correlation with the speed of aging and the reduction of glutathione concentrations in intracellular fluids. As individuals grow older, glutathione levels drop, and the ability to detoxify free radicals decreases.

Given that this is a compound readily made by aminos in the body, do you feel supplementation is necesary if proper amino intake is done?