Tribulus for PCT?

**Redrock20** · 08-14-2005, 03:24 PM

How important is tribulus for PCT? How much does it actually boost your natural test? Is nolva and tribulus good for PCT?

**TheMudMan** · 08-14-2005, 03:30 PM

Here are some facts from some studies done on Tribulus:

* A study done with healthy individuals taking 750mg of tribulus per day showed a 72% LH increase, and a 41% increase in testosterone .
* In a study conducted with 20 males and females, 75% of the participants had increased endurance, 80% had increased libido and sexual performance, and 95% of the females reported no PMS symptoms.
* A study conducted with 200 males suffering from impotence showed increase in LH and testosterone levels after supplementing Tribulus. The study also found a increase in sperm production.

**anaBROLIC** · 08-14-2005, 03:33 PM

i like tribulus alot for pct, works very well for me. but i would make sure clomid is still apart of the pct as well

**Papi93** · 08-14-2005, 04:00 PM

Which would you say is superior for raising natural test production, during PCT, Clomid or Tribulus.

**stocky121** · 08-14-2005, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by striker93

Which would you say is superior for raising natural test production, during PCT, Clomid or Tribulus.

clomid with out a doubt

**Papi93** · 08-14-2005, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by stocky121

clomid with out a doubt

Thanks Stocky! Do you know why you can't use clomid year round like trib? The only thing I can think of is the side effects.

**stocky121** · 08-14-2005, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by striker93

Thanks Stocky! Do you know why you can't use clomid year round like trib? The only thing I can think of is the side effects.

yeah the side affect's stop you using it i hate using clomid but i won't to keep most of my gain's off my cycle so i alway's use it

**Smak** · 08-14-2005, 04:51 PM

Clomid and/or Nolva is a must in your PCT and Tribex should be an addition.

**powerliftmike** · 08-14-2005, 05:50 PM

Tribulus does work for me, but I seem to notice varied effectiveness between diff brands...

**FlyByU** · 08-15-2005, 04:59 AM

Originally Posted by TheMudMan

Here are some facts from some studies done on Tribulus:

* A study done with healthy individuals taking 750mg of tribulus per day showed a 72% LH increase, and a 41% increase in testosterone .
* In a study conducted with 20 males and females, 75% of the participants had increased endurance, 80% had increased libido and sexual performance, and 95% of the females reported no PMS symptoms.
* A study conducted with 200 males suffering from impotence showed increase in LH and testosterone levels after supplementing Tribulus. The study also found a increase in sperm production.

You left out the important findings of that study. Although LH was increased by 72% and testosterone by 41%, tribulus also increased estradiol by 80%!
i.e. it resulted in a lower testosterone to estrogen level and an estrogen level that was well above normal.
Whenever you increase testosterone , you are going to increase aromatization and therefore estrogen levels. Usually natural test boosters work by stimulating LH release from the pituitary gland. Unfortunately, excess LH inhibitis the amount of GnRH that is produced in the hypothalamus - which is responsible for increasing LH in the first place!
So, you get a negative feedback loop in the HPTA. This means that natural test boosters like tribulus, tongkat ali etc. either need to be cycled because they only work for a few days, or they need to be taken with an anti-aromatase. All this trouble for only a very small increase in test!

**emdub27** · 08-15-2005, 07:21 AM

Check out "DR. D" over at anabolic minds, he is very knowledgeabe on all of the herbals. He also has a lot of research studies that he could pass on.

**TheMudMan** · 08-15-2005, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by FlyByU

You left out the important findings of that study. Although LH was increased by 72% and testosterone by 41%, tribulus also increased estradiol by 80%!
i.e. it resulted in a lower testosterone to estrogen level and an estrogen level that was well above normal.
Whenever you increase testosterone , you are going to increase aromatization and therefore estrogen levels. Usually natural test boosters work by stimulating LH release from the pituitary gland. Unfortunately, excess LH inhibitis the amount of GnRH that is produced in the hypothalamus - which is responsible for increasing LH in the first place!
So, you get a negative feedback loop in the HPTA. This means that natural test boosters like tribulus, tongkat ali etc. either need to be cycled because they only work for a few days, or they need to be taken with an anti-aromatase. All this trouble for only a very small increase in test!

You got your information from here http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/...terrestris.htm

I don't know if I would trust 1 source. I have used over 4g a day while not on a cycle with no anti-e's and have seen no signs of estrogen related sides.

**fballhoss51** · 08-15-2005, 10:12 AM

themudman i like ur research, last night i hit tha search button on this site and just typed in tribulus, every thread was people just stating "tribulus is worthless, i wouldnt spend my money on it again" but not stating any facts, thank u for tha facts

edit:

Originally Posted by FlyByU

Studies have shown that tribulus raises estrogen to a greater extent than testosterone, so it has no use for pct.

this was said in my thread "tribulus tribosten", is there any truth to this?

**decadbal** · 08-15-2005, 10:30 AM

i think it is one of the best otc pct products...

**TheMudMan** · 08-15-2005, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by TheMudMan

You got your information from here http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/...terrestris.htm

I don't know if I would trust 1 source. I have used over 4g a day while not on a cycle with no anti-e's and have seen no signs of estrogen related sides.

Most of these studies are done on elderly men that already have higher estrogen levels because of the lack of testosterone production. So they are seeing alot of the symtoms that are part of having that problem. After the use of tribulus most of the subjects have increased libido and are able to hold errection. Also there were increased test levels that would indicate why they saw the benifits.

I'm not saying the estrogen can't be produced by using the product but too many studies are out there that indicate otherwise. The one that FlyByU read wasn't a study and also it was just what happen to one male.

**Pump A Holic** · 08-15-2005, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by FlyByU

You left out the important findings of that study. Although LH was increased by 72% and testosterone by 41%, tribulus also increased estradiol by 80%!
i.e. it resulted in a lower testosterone to estrogen level and an estrogen level that was well above normal.
Whenever you increase testosterone , you are going to increase aromatization and therefore estrogen levels. Usually natural test boosters work by stimulating LH release from the pituitary gland. Unfortunately, excess LH inhibitis the amount of GnRH that is produced in the hypothalamus - which is responsible for increasing LH in the first place!
So, you get a negative feedback loop in the HPTA. This means that natural test boosters like tribulus, tongkat ali etc. either need to be cycled because they only work for a few days, or they need to be taken with an anti-aromatase. All this trouble for only a very small increase in test!

This is utterly incorrect.

"Whenever you increase testosterone, you are going to increase aromatization and therefore estrogen levels"

Then everyone would have GYNO because EVERYONE has fluctuating levels of testosetrone. As long as you're not producing SUPRAPHYSIOLGICAL LEVELS of testosterone (and Test will ALWAYS stay within the normal range on trib), your body can utilize cicrulating testosterone for anabolism and overall function. EXCESS testosterone ONLY occurs in either Aromatase sensitive individuals(those who are predisposed to higher estrogen levels due to an overactive aromatase enzyme) or when SUPRAPHYSIOLOGICAL levels of testosterone are being administered. In Aromatase sensitive individuals, GYNO can and DOES occur naturally--usually during puberty when a surge in androgens takes place.

Tribulus Extract will increase TESTOSTERONE production without an increase in aromatization.(as it does NOT pass your naural threshold) Furthermore, Tribulus sensitizes the Pituitary like NOLVA, while Clomid desensitizes it. Tribulus can not cause a negative feedback loop, as Tribulus does not cause an OVERSTIMULATION of LH, as is the case with HCG .

As for Tongkat, it dosn't even increase test PRODUCTION...It increases Free TEST, 4-adiol, and DHEA.

http://www.herbal-powers.com/bodbuilfitre.html