Growth plates.

**KaevurMati** · 08-25-2005, 03:10 PM

JohnnyB said in one of his threads:

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

...

If you are under 25, it is best for you to have an x-ray done to see if your growth plates are closed. If they are, you can start cycling. If their not please wait, you'll be glad you did.

...

Why is it important to have the growth plates closed?

Does it have any effect in results or something?

***G-1000*** · 08-25-2005, 03:12 PM

if your plates are not closed you can still grow. when the plates close off you will no longer grow.

he said that becuase steroids will close the plates and stunt your growth

**KaevurMati** · 08-25-2005, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by gsxxr

if your plates are not closed you can still grow. when the plates close off you will no longer grow.

he said that becuase steroids will close the plates and stunt your growth

Erm, I haven't grown taller for a long time.

Does he mean that the bones may grow wider before age of 25?

**Captain_test** · 08-25-2005, 03:31 PM

growth plates are parts on the ends of the bone which allow actual growth (Length), if you close them, you cant grow any taller/longer. AAS will do this to you. make sense? you "close" the plate, and you cant grow any taller because theyre closed

***G-1000*** · 08-25-2005, 03:31 PM

some people will not gore taller for a year. then they could get a growth spert for 3 month or so.

**taylor26** · 08-25-2005, 03:37 PM

sometimes growing can be a slow process but I will have to agree with Johnnny b. I think that is one of the biggest mistakes most users make. They start so young when one they already have a high test level and two because they're growth plates haven't closed off until apparently over 25.

**KaevurMati** · 08-25-2005, 03:37 PM

Does growth plates have something to do with growing the bones wider?

I mean, if not, then perhaps people who don't want to grow taller anymore could just use AAS to solve their problem.

**KaevurMati** · 08-25-2005, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by taylor26

sometimes growing can be a slow process but I will have to agree with Johnnny b. I think that is one of the biggest mistakes most users make. They start so young when one they already have a high test level and two because they're growth plates haven't closed off until apparently over 25.

Lets leave test levels out from this thread. The question is about growth plates only.

**Captain_test** · 08-25-2005, 03:39 PM

Your bones can/will get more dense as you train in heavy weights, check out the difference in Ronny Colemans bone density from when he started in Mr. Olympia to now, check out his ankles, its amazing.

**chest6** · 08-25-2005, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_test

Your bones can/will get more dense as you train in heavy weights, check out the difference in Ronny Colemans bone density from when he started in Mr. Olympia to now, check out his ankles, its amazing.

true... if not, they would crumble with 800 lbs on his back

**KaevurMati** · 08-25-2005, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by KaevurMati

Does growth plates have something to do with growing the bones wider?

I mean, if not, then perhaps people who don't want to grow taller anymore could just use AAS to solve their problem.

Bumping this up as the main question I have.

**chest6** · 08-25-2005, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by KaevurMati

Bumping this up as the main question I have.

well...im no expert on this..but i hear something as not only height..but like hip bone alignment and shit..or something...someone correct me quickly

**Slic4788** · 08-25-2005, 05:08 PM

im pretty sure the bones still grow wider after growth plates close. That's what happens through out life.

***JohnnyB*** · 08-25-2005, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Slic4788

im pretty sure the bones still grow wider after growth plates close. That's what happens through out life.

I'd say they do, my proof, my chest has gotten thicker, since I stopped growing. Does that mean it'll happen to everyone? no, could it? yes.

JohnnyB

***JohnnyB*** · 08-25-2005, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by KaevurMati

JohnnyB said in one of his threads:

Why is it important to have the growth plates closed?

Does it have any effect in results or something?

Growth plates closing and full maturation of the hormonal system, happen about the same time. This is why I [b]suggest[/] 25 as an age or get an x-ray to verify they are closed. Shutting down your hormonal system while it's still developing, can cause problems in the future, sexual being one of them.

This number is a good commitment #, if you're in your teens or early 20's. Waiting until then will see how committed you are to the game as well. Why would you want to juice, with a high possibility of negative side effects, now or in the future, if you're not even going to be in the game 5 years from now.

I lifted (seriously) for 5 years before juicing, why make decisions now, that might not even be a part of your life in 5 years, while the negative side effects could be with for life. Starting before this, is where a lot of the horror story about gear comes from, some is hype, some myth, but some is true. But when it comes to healthy adult males, it becomes, hype, myth, no roid rage , except in cases of coming off gear. People that don't do their homework on PCT, can have mood swings, which is translated as roid rage.

Look at the mood swings teens and early 20's males have without added hormones. Now add to that more hormones, we're talking recipe for roid rage (mood swings), in someone that is already having problem trying to adjust to the hormonal changes.

If you're going to juice, do it in a healthy way, don't gamble with your hormonal system, it's not worth it. You don't want to be with your wife/girl and find out the gear you used when you were younger, just made your noodle limp.

Be safe when jucing, my post is for a guideline, it in no way over rides what your Dr says and it's not written in stone

JohnnyB

**JNel04** · 08-25-2005, 06:56 PM

if ur growth plates have not closed and u choose to go on gear will they be able to continue to grow after juicing or are they closed for good?

**Maetenloch** · 08-25-2005, 08:35 PM

The epiphyseal plates are a type of cartilage at the end of long bones that's capable of hardening into bone. As this cartilage grows, it extends the bone. It has both estrogen and testosterone receptors, but is much more sensitive to estrogen. High levels of estrogen cause the entire plate to harden and no more growth will occur. This is why woman tend to be shorter than men - they go through puberty earlier and hence their estrogen levels peak at an earlier age, causing the plates to seal. Testosterone will also cause the plates to seal, but has a weaker effect than estrogen.

**ward065** · 08-25-2005, 08:38 PM

don't mean to change the direction of the thread, but

supposedely Arnold started juicing in his early-mid teens......how is it he grew after this point? he got to like 6 feet tall, which imo is pretty ideal for height

**musclehead1** · 08-25-2005, 11:44 PM

my plates closed at age of 14 i had a x ray done so does that mean my hormonal system was mature at that age?

**juicy_brucy** · 08-25-2005, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by musclehead1

my plates closed at age of 14 i had a x ray done so does that mean my hormonal system was mature at that age?

Are you sure? that would also indicate that you were finished puberty and had all your wisdom teeth at age 14 too.

**KaevurMati** · 08-26-2005, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by ward065

don't mean to change the direction of the thread, but

supposedely Arnold started juicing in his early-mid teens......how is it he grew after this point? he got to like 6 feet tall, which imo is pretty ideal for height

That's a good question. I'd like to know the same thing.

**KaevurMati** · 08-26-2005, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Growth plates closing and full maturation of the hormonal system, happen about the same time. This is why I [b]suggest[/] 25 as an age or get an x-ray to verify they are closed. Shutting down your hormonal system while it's still developing, can cause problems in the future, sexual being one of them.

This number is a good commitment #, if you're in your teens or early 20's. Waiting until then will see how committed you are to the game as well. Why would you want to juice, with a high possibility of negative side effects, now or in the future, if you're not even going to be in the game 5 years from now.

I lifted (seriously) for 5 years before juicing, why make decisions now, that might not even be a part of your life in 5 years, while the negative side effects could be with for life. Starting before this, is where a lot of the horror story about gear comes from, some is hype, some myth, but some is true. But when it comes to healthy adult males, it becomes, hype, myth, no roid rage , except in cases of coming off gear. People that don't do their homework on PCT, can have mood swings, which is translated as roid rage.

Look at the mood swings teens and early 20's males have without added hormones. Now add to that more hormones, we're talking recipe for roid rage (mood swings), in someone that is already having problem trying to adjust to the hormonal changes.

If you're going to juice, do it in a healthy way, don't gamble with your hormonal system, it's not worth it. You don't want to be with your wife/girl and find out the gear you used when you were younger, just made your noodle limp.

Be safe when jucing, my post is for a guideline, it in no way over rides what your Dr says and it's not written in stone

JohnnyB

Thanks Johnny. Your post helped to understand some things better.

**KaevurMati** · 08-26-2005, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Maetenloch

The epiphyseal plates are a type of cartilage at the end of long bones that's capable of hardening into bone. As this cartilage grows, it extends the bone. It has both estrogen and testosterone receptors, but is much more sensitive to estrogen. High levels of estrogen cause the entire plate to harden and no more growth will occur. This is why woman tend to be shorter than men - they go through puberty earlier and hence their estrogen levels peak at an earlier age, causing the plates to seal. Testosterone will also cause the plates to seal, but has a weaker effect than estrogen.

So basically, if you're using Anti E's in your cycle, the growth plates might not close?

**Maetenloch** · 08-26-2005, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by KaevurMati

So basically, if you're using Anti E's in your cycle, the growth plates might not close?

True, but you still might get burned during PCT since clomid and nolvadex attach to estrogen receptors. Plus there could be estrogen rebound after the end of the cycle.

**chest6** · 08-26-2005, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by Maetenloch

True, but you still might get burned during PCT since clomid and nolvadex attach to estrogen receptors. Plus there could be estrogen rebound after the end of the cycle.

run ldex..take care of that problem

**chest6** · 08-26-2005, 01:08 AM

Originally Posted by juicy_brucy

Are you sure? that would also indicate that you were finished puberty and had all your wisdom teeth at age 14 too.

I am just now getting my wisdom teeth in at 18. My growth plates closed at 16 1/2

**Maetenloch** · 08-26-2005, 01:48 AM

Originally Posted by chest6

run ldex..take care of that problem

Unfortunately not - arimidex justs prevents the aromatization of testosterone into estrogen. It doesn't block the estrogen receptors from the SERMS you're taking during PCT.

I've thought about what would be a 'safe' cycle for someone who hasn't finished growing, and I haven't found a good answer. Possibly a very low dose cycle of a non-aromatizing AAS (or test with an AI) along with HCG , followed by a mild PCT of smaller doses of Nolva/Clomid with tonkat ali. But in that case, why bother given the already naturally high levels of test. That's why I still think the risk/reward ratio is too high to make it worthwhile.

**KaevurMati** · 08-26-2005, 06:26 AM

Hmm.

Does using HGH help to keep the growth plates open for a little longer time?

**KaevurMati** · 08-26-2005, 10:51 AM

bump

**bigger** · 08-26-2005, 02:10 PM

im 183 cm, thats good enguff for me dont wanna be taller so i dont give a shit.

**TallMan** · 08-26-2005, 04:35 PM

If I knew this when I was like 6 feet I would have injected some estrogen :P

**Seattle Junk** · 08-26-2005, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by TallMan

If I knew this when I was like 6 feet I would have injected some estrogen :P

Lucky bastard....Us guys in the sub 6' range (5'11" and shorter) want to be taller and you're complaining....

**powerliftmike** · 08-26-2005, 06:28 PM

PCT will NOT guarantee anything. Clomid and Nolvadex have both anti-estrogen and pro-estrogen properties. If you are going to use AASs when young use non-aromatizing and stay away from powerful androgens like Tren . Anavar , Winstrol , and Primo have been shown to increase height in adolescents, although HGH is the standard perferred treatment for stunted growth these days.

**TallMan** · 08-27-2005, 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by Seattle Junk

Lucky bastard....Us guys in the sub 6' range (5'11" and shorter) want to be taller and you're complaining....

Being to tall is the same as being to short, both sucks

**Slic4788** · 08-27-2005, 03:24 AM

Originally Posted by TallMan

If I knew this when I was like 6 feet I would have injected some estrogen :P

lol ive never heard that before...no one wants to be stuck at the height that they're at...everyone wants more and more....except those 6'6 guys.

**Gra** · 08-27-2005, 07:38 AM

A guy I know got test injected by a Dr. to slow the growth down when he was about 13-14 years old. He still got a bit taller after that.

**DragRacer** · 08-29-2005, 12:05 AM

A guy I know was around 5'6 when he started at age 17 and hasnt stopped since. He is now 27 and 6'4. The bad thing about this guy, he stopped about a year ago and got into coke. Now he is a twig and his deal doesn't even work anymore.