test and equipoise!?!?

**Lift Chief** · 04-30-2002, 09:48 PM

I'm going home this summer and i would really like to take my first cycle ever, and i'd do it at home... but my parents absolutely can't find out... so i'm trying to avoid the big bloat and acne that comes along with test but i know you need some test for gains. i was thinking i could do.
300mg EQUIPOISE 8-10 weeks
100mg EN 8-10 weeks
clomid have nolva/prov on hand
I know this is very low dose of test, but will i still get some decent size after the completion of this longer milder cycle. I want to avoid the blowup that comes with higher doses of test. Will 100 mg of E do anything? If not i'll just do EQ, but i;d like some mass, which is why i'm trying a little test. Please help me out- i have been wondering the lowest minimum test dose for awhile.
thanks guys

**gixxerboy1** · 04-30-2002, 09:54 PM

thats to low of doses. If you want to stop bloating get armidex. Dont you think your parents will notice if you put on 15lbs in 10 weeks.

**MBaraso** · 04-30-2002, 09:59 PM

Bro your dosages are way to low. Not only the test but the Eq is also low. If you were to do a cycle like this your gains would be minimal to say the least. Seriously you'd be better of w/ Cell-Tech then wasting your $ on AS's w/ this low of a dose.
You should decide whether you want to Bulk or Cut.
As far as the sides like Bloat or Zits...that's part of the game.
If you want to keep bloat down you can run Armidex throughout a cycle.
Stick around awhile and read some more before you jump into anything...research some cycles and try and decide what's best for you, then we can help you better once you know what you want.
What's your stats? Age, training exp etc....

M

**Lift Chief** · 04-30-2002, 11:34 PM

Yeah i've been training for almost 3 years
i'm 6'2" 180
I bench 210 max]
I've been reading these boards non-stop for like 3 weeks now... at least 3 hours a day... and i know that equipoise is the key to my cycle i'm just trying to figure out something safe to add to it for mass- but i just meant i'm in no hurry i wouldnt mind taking my time for solid gains.
Any suggestions quite welcome.

**macDbol** · 04-30-2002, 11:58 PM

i think a first time user will grow off low dosages,,ive seen it first had by friends taking 200mg of organon yellows for 8 weeks and gaining ten pounds,

the dosage for eq should be 400mg and you should be set, you could just go with that and dont even throw the test in there. If you do it right and get your diet and trainng down u could gain a solid 10 off just 400mg of eq alone

**Kaz** · 05-01-2002, 12:39 AM

I have noticed this before in other posts and not mentioned it, but this time I have to say something. There seems to be a trend amongst those who juice (By no means only those on this board) to take, and encourage others to take, rather high doses of everything!

For a newbie what is wrong with 300mg of EQ pw?
For a newbie what is wrong with 100mg of test pw?

I have been doing cycles now for some years (harumph! Im NOT going to say HOW many!) and I have never used ANY one item above 400mg pw! Unless you are planning to compete in the not too distant future, and you need to have freaky mass and be ripped to the bone there really is no need at all for these high doses.

A high dose on one cycle leads to a high dose on the next and that trend will continue until you truly beleive that you need 600-800mg or more of test on every cycle! (As well as whatever else you think you need to take with it)

People talk in large mg doses and mention that they put on 30lbs here and 30lbs there - So why dont we have a whole bunch of guys wandering about at 300lbs ripped to the bone then? Perhaps its because much of this is lost again?

I have seen many people gain huge amounts on a cycle, only to lose most of it even when they use clomid properly. On the other hand, using a light dose, and putting on a more resonable amount of muscle seems to allow you to keep that muscle a whole lot easier. More importantly on the next cycle there is not the need to increase the quantity of juice to see the same gains again.

I dont mean this as a flame on anyone, I just think that many people would do better to lose a few hundred mg of test each week on their cycles, and take smaller gains which they then keep! Besides, on lower doses you will see less side effects for your money, and having read this board backwards for sometime now, side effects seem to crop up a lot in questions!

We have to keep in focus that we are NOT in a race here! Most of us (Us olduns anyway!) have been training for so long it is part of who we are. A lifestyle. Keeping that in mind the use of AS is simply to help us on our way, to help us gain some more when we have reached our natural potential.

If you set your sights a little further in the future you see that large dose/ large gain cycles are really not worth the expense (in your pocket OR your body) unless you plan to compete. The problem is of course that the only information we have comes from others, and if they just did 600mg of test pw and got good gains then we think that we need to do the same!

Take it slow, take it safe and aim to grow at a rate which is not much higher than your original natural rate of growth and you will see much better results in the long term. And, more importantly for us, you have a far greater chance of keeping those gains when you come off cycle.

Sorry for the rant but I really think this needs to be said!

Peace

**Lift Chief** · 05-01-2002, 01:08 AM

Thanks for that really good post. That's what i had been wondering for a long time now... everyone tells me the stacks i suggest... like the one you just mentioned, are too small, but since i've never done it before it does make sense that it would work well. What is ever wrong with gaining 10-15 pounds of muscle if it is solid and keepable. Who wants to blowup anyways- people will just know you're juicin'. Thanks for that really reasonable post dude. I think you've convinced me to try something like what you've suggested.

**Lift Chief** · 05-01-2002, 01:20 AM

One last thing-- you are still able to grow normally and naturally after a cycle right? I dont want to have to take this for the rest of my lifting career.....

**Kaz** · 05-01-2002, 01:40 AM

Originally posted by liftchief
One last thing-- you are still able to grow normally and naturally after a cycle right? I dont want to have to take this for the rest of my lifting career.....

Sure you are! It just slows down a bit since you are not using anything - This is another reason why you should not be using AS until you have stopped growing naturally anyway - Otherwise you are simply wasting potential! AS are NOT shortcuts! They simply enhance what would happen anyway, but it would happen very very slowly!

***Pheedno*** · 05-01-2002, 08:25 AM

Excellent post Kaz. Nothing wrong with moderation.

**str82hellnback** · 05-01-2002, 09:54 AM

this is from a previous post about doing 200mg test a week much less 100 mg.

not that my opinion or any research that i have done matters, but please consider your opitions before you do 200 mg of t-200 for your first cycle, reason's not to do 200 mg of t-200 for ten weeks for first cycle
1. body naturally produces 70 mg of test per week
2. once you have foreign test in your body your body shuts down natural test production
3. to recieve optimun results your body needs atleast 250 mg of total test per week
4. if you take 200 mg of test per week you are actually only getting 130 mg of test per week that your body is utilizing
5,that is only if your t-200 actually contains 200mg per ml which is very unlikely
6. what is happening is you will receive 160 mg per ml of test and you will shoot that and your natural test production will stop and you will only be getting 90 mg of test per week,so to get optimum results you must reach a number close to 250 mg per week which would end up being two bottles of test over a ten week period,with taht you will benefit from about 240 mg of test per week,which will be sufficient for a first timer,if i am wrong please correct me

**str82hellnback** · 05-01-2002, 09:56 AM

if you want to gain 5-10 pounds pretend like you are on steroids and eat and train like you are on steroids,get some damn andro if it'll make you feel better but dont waste your hard earned money on 100 mg of test/wk that will just shut your natural system down,you will pay 13 weeks later when you are 5 pounds lighter then what you started due to post cycle anxiety and depression b/c you didn't become superman.

peace

**NightOp** · 05-01-2002, 10:13 AM

listen to kaz. I agree with him. and even that low a dose of test can be used to keep sex drive, etc.... I see what you are saying st82hellnbak, regardless I would suggest the lowest possible dose for/ and conservative goals...

**Lift Chief** · 05-01-2002, 11:29 AM

So then ST82 do you suggest that a first timer... not someone interested in competing in bodybuilding tournaments or anything... would use
250mg test en
300 mg equipoise for 8-10 weeks?
That was an interesting point made about how much test will actually be in your system since your natural production will shut down. I'm looking for the lowest effective dose of test so i can see how my body reacts- from what i've read on this post it seems like 250 is about right along with the 300 equipoise???
And also i was told nolva should be taken post cycle instead of clomid because it's a better estrogen blocker and less sides- what do you guys think about that too?

**Ajax** · 05-01-2002, 11:38 PM

Kaz, excellent post!

More is not always better; sometimes more is just more: more side effects, more money, and no more gains than what you would have kept on a lot less juice. Test your body to see what works FOR YOU.

**MBaraso** · 05-02-2002, 12:04 AM

Kaz I see what your saying but I'd have to agree more w/ st28.
I don't believe in shuting down your natural test levals if you were only going to take 100mgs of Test a week.
Everyone is different but very few people would benifit from 100mgs a week of any kind of AS's.
I've seen wayyyy to many people take low dosages of AS's and still lose thier gains just as I have seen people take high dosages and lose.
It's all what you do post cycle. I'd rather gain 30lbs and lose 10 then gain 20lbs and lose 10....

M

**xplicit** · 05-02-2002, 04:57 AM

Great post Kaz i think you should have that post added to the sticky threads that read important. Everyone is differnt and it seems easy to jsut throw around high numbers of mgs to take, but in all honestly no one knows how his body is going to handle gear. Also we dont even know his stats say hes 140 do you really need to tell him to take more test ? Hes going to grow on the gear regardless. Also from what i read people tell me more calorie intake bulk up less calore intake cutting. So basically even tho the roids will help your diet is going to determine how much muscle mass you put on. I think kaz is one of the first posts i seen that actually said something about every one always upping the dosage it seems like when u ask for advice people automatcially assume the more the better and it isnt always true. Im not flaming anyone either i have got great advice and help from everyone on here but i think what kaz said needed to be said,Excellent post Kaz.

**Lift Chief** · 05-02-2002, 06:51 AM

I'm 6-2, 180
but i agree with xplicit and kaz in that i think someone should find out what steroids will do to them by first taking a lower dose before jumping right in- and if you eat a lot you can gain good mass even on eqipoise which is generally considered a cutting steroid - from what i've heard and read. it's important that people think about that i think.

**PsychoBB** · 05-02-2002, 08:48 AM

There is absolutly NO reson to do high doses for a first cycle.
I did a 12 week cycle at:
1-5 35mg/ed D-Bol
1-12 200mg/ew DECA
1-12 200mg/ew Testex Cyp
hcg 15-17
I ate like a cow on fina

and trained like a sonofabitch, still I went from 12-13% BF to 11-12%BF

I grew 35 pounds (15kg) from 77kg to 92kg

Btw. Got some nice stretchmarks to show the girls J/K. I am going to get them zap´d with laser later on this year or the beginning of next.

hope that you don´t start with a PRO-dose.

cheers

**str82hellnback** · 05-02-2002, 09:49 AM

400 mg of test per week when you are actually probly only getting 330 mg out of it minus your natural test levels is 70 will bring it down to 250 mg per week,that is no where near pro dosage, and yes, 250 mg is for ideal growth for a first cycle and even after as long as you respond to it. as long as your receptors do not become saturated i would stick with utilizing 250 mg per week which is 400 mg of t-200 per week

**str82hellnback** · 05-02-2002, 09:57 AM

another reason i recommend trying 400 mg per week is b/c if you take 200 mg per week you are headed for disaster in the essence of post-cycle depression. you will gain maybe 15 pounds most of which willl be water and lose all of it within 4 weeks of ending your cycle,you will then decide that you are going to do another cycle that consist of 800 mg of test with 800 mg of equipoise per week and add some d-bol at 40mg per day and fina at 100 mg eod. that cycle could seriously damage your and saturate your receptors and make it almost impossible to gain off of relatively low (400mg) dosages again, and believe me you are probly saying hell no i would never take that much or even think about it,well i for one started my first cycle with half of a bottle of t-200 and did that for five weeks,i lost five pounds in the end and felt the worst i have ever felt in my life. then i read i wasn't taking enough,so i decided that i will show everyone,im going to make this next cycle big, so i bought as much test and deca as i could afford and ended up taking in 600mg test per week and 600 mg deca per week with first four weeks of d-bol, i gained overall 30 pounds and kept 20 and am in the best shape of my life,however, if i would have had more money for three more bottles of t-200 i would have stacked 600mg deca, 1200mg test, and 40mg d-bolper day, and that could have ruined my bb career for the rest of my life

**xplicit** · 05-02-2002, 10:47 AM

Theres also kids out there that dont mess with gear and grow 20 pounds in 4 months, the point is everyone is differnt and all the facts you read are based on tests run on regualr people but that dont mean those people will react the same way as you. The first cycle you are going to grow just train hard eat right and have a healthy lifestyle, the gear will help but theres other things that are needed to grow. If you can put on muscle with low dosages then god bless ya and continue to stay low and in order to see if you can put on signicant size with low amounts u need to try it first. Also remeber size muscle cuts or whatever doesnt always dicate happiness, You dont need to put on ridiculus size to be happy just be happy that you look better and u worked for what u got and youll feel better about yourself also. Good luck bro on whatever u do. Sorry for rambling when i write a lot i i get a lil sloppy lol

**str82hellnback** · 05-02-2002, 10:52 AM

amen xplicit,good reply, bro, i say the same as xplicit,do the best that you can do with the least amount of anabolics while you are young, you have nothing but time and no one is going to flame you if you dont gain thirty pounds on your first cycle,you will stay healthier if you gain about 15 pounds of quality muscle on your first cycle,just remember not to get greedy with it and expect changes too fast. stick with what you believe is right and if that is to not mess with steroids at all then bye all means dont mess with them,you might thank yourself in five years when you are jacked and then you decide to start a cycle,just think of how much more proud you will be. peace

**Vegas Kid** · 05-02-2002, 11:46 AM

Kaz that was a great post! More isn't better in most cases. I know that when I'm ready to start my cycle it will be on the lower end of the quantity and worry more about the quality.

**Lift Chief** · 05-02-2002, 12:03 PM

Good posts guys- glad to see so many responses to this really important issue- i appreciate all the different viewpoints people have, and i think i'll try the smallest dose i think i can grow on and i will keep in mind i probably will not gain 30 pounds in 2 months... i will be realistic.